Massive Connectivity Problem 2 players same House

[Tommy Mancino]

I am on Cox internet and told I have no service side security features....... My son and I are, as of a month ago, not able to be connected to the same GM at the same time. No other players have a problem, nor is it an issue if one of us hosts the game as GM. I am attaching the logs in the hopes someone can figure out wtf. Killing our weekly game as one of us logging in causes the other to kick the other one out (randomly). This seems to start 20 - 45 minutes into a session, then intermittently so it isn't a basic configure problem. I have turned of Ddos protection on our relatively new nether router (as I know this could be the source of the issue). Player and GM logs attached in hopes of figuring out something......

[smelton]

Thank you for submitting logs. I'll take a look and see what I can find. You mentioned a new router; did that come before or after the issues began?

[Tommy Mancino]

I can not say for sure, but of course I am suspicious of the router. It did detect a Ddos attempt while playing, but the problems still continue even after that feature is disabled. The odd thing is that we are both able to play for a while, then one or the other as kicked out of the game. Usually (but not always) the kicked player logging back in , then kicks the other player (in the same house/network) out of the game. Which is just weird......... makes me think it is an IP allocation issue or something?

[LordEntrails]

What about QoL or Flood Protection? Also no Advanced Security provided by your ISP via a web portal?

[smelton]

I'm working on trying to replicate the issue. Are you on a wired or wireless connection?

Just to eliminate the possibility of it being a network reset issue, would you mind submitting the Windows Event Log entries for the network:

1. Click Windows button and type Event Log
2. On the left, select Applications and Services Logs > Microsoft > Windows > Network Profile > Operational
3. On the right, select the entries from 11/29/2020 3:12:56 PM and 11/29/2020 5:07:59 PM, and if any, right-click and select Save Selected Events..., save and submit

Thanks

[smelton]

I can replicate the issue if I switch wifi networks (i.e. switching from my home connection to a hotspot). Do you have multiple wifi networks and/or multiple access points?

[damned]

Is the network broker blocking multiple connections from the same IP address?

[DM_BK]

This is happening to two people I play with (from the same house) and it just started 2-3 weeks ago. Directly following an FGU update that had the big network change warning on it. Previous to that update there was no issues.

My first assumption was NOT that it was anything on the FGU end and it was something they did....however after investigating the local network setup and discovering they made 0 changes from one week to the next, all I'm left with is the FGU update as the cause.

Doesn't entirely rule out an ISP change but they are on Comcast so that means 2 ISPs made changes at the same time...possible, but not where I'd place my bet at.

Edit: Some differences from the OP's post though: One of them gets tossed out with in a minute of the other connecting.

[Tommy Mancino]

What about QoL or Flood Protection? Also no Advanced Security provided by your ISP via a web portal?

I will check these (Netgear) but I do not think they are active.

[Tommy Mancino]

I'm working on trying to replicate the issue. Are you on a wired or wireless connection?

Just to eliminate the possibility of it being a network reset issue, would you mind submitting the Windows Event Log entries for the network:

1. Click Windows button and type Event Log
2. On the left, select Applications and Services Logs > Microsoft > Windows > Network Profile > Operational
3. On the right, select the entries from 11/29/2020 3:12:56 PM and 11/29/2020 5:07:59 PM, and if any, right-click and select Save Selected Events..., save and submit

Thanks

From both he GM and Player?

[Tommy Mancino]

I can replicate the issue if I switch wifi networks (i.e. switching from my home connection to a hotspot). Do you have multiple wifi networks and/or multiple access points?


Yes 2.4ghz and 5ghz

[Tommy Mancino]

Is the network broker within my router or @ the ISP level? Or in Unity?

[LordEntrails]

Network brokering is done by the SmiteWork servers when you chose a Cloud game.

Since you mentioned two bands of wireless networks, I wonder if the router/gateway has Network Isolation turned on? Not sure exactly why that would matter, or not be an immediate issue, but it's a thought.

[smelton]

The player

[Tommy Mancino]

Ok I will do this when I get home today. Thank you.

[smelton]

Is the network broker blocking multiple connections from the same IP address?

No it shouldn't. ICE should facilitate connections behind multiple layers of NAT. In addition, I host and connect from multiple systems on the same connection when testing various changes and never had an issue like this.

[smelton]

This is happening to two people I play with (from the same house) and it just started 2-3 weeks ago. Directly following an FGU update that had the big network change warning on it. Previous to that update there was no issues.

My first assumption was NOT that it was anything on the FGU end and it was something they did....however after investigating the local network setup and discovering they made 0 changes from one week to the next, all I'm left with is the FGU update as the cause.

Doesn't entirely rule out an ISP change but they are on Comcast so that means 2 ISPs made changes at the same time...possible, but not where I'd place my bet at.

Edit: Some differences from the OP's post though: One of them gets tossed out with in a minute of the other connecting.

Thank you for the info. Can you provide logs for the affected users?

Also, please note there are two types of network changes .. the first would be changes to the actual network code, which facilitates and manages the actual network connections, and hasn't had any major changes for a couple of months. The other is changes to the network message format, which requires both the host and client to be on the same version (i.e. speak the same language) and which comes with the warning you spoke of.

If you could post the logs it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[DM_BK]

I also thought I would add that, in my case, we also tried various combinations of one player selecting from the list of servers from the cloud hosted list and the other doing a direct IP connection (with port forwarded and without). Issue continued to be present no matter how they connected.

I will see what I can do about getting logs. May take a few days.

[damned]

You cant direct connect AND cloud broker at the same time.

[Tommy Mancino]

I think I did this (mostly) correct.........

[DM_BK]

It's 2 people, 2 computers, same location. One clicks on the cloud broker and the other types in an IP. The result was the same no matter how they attempted the connection (both IP, both cloud, etc).

Damned - Am I missing something here?

[Moon Wizard]

The system is set up so that Cloud mode games are connected via Cloud connection using GM's FG user name; and the LAN mode games are connected to using IP address. If you are connecting otherwise, then you may get unexpected behaviors. (i.e. GMs using Cloud mode should not be giving out IP address to connect to.)

Were you able to get the log files?

Regards,
JPG

[DM_BK]

Right...I wouldn't normally do that direct IP but desperate times and all.... we were troubleshooting. It seemed to have no variance on behavior.

So...I guess I'm confused as to how to get the logs. I thinking was hit the compile logs button on the launcher but every time my logs seem to be just for that session (losing everything before that day). What am I doing wrong?

[Moon Wizard]

You need to hit the Compile Logs button on both the GM and player right after you have any connection errors. Once you restart FG, it moves the log files to backup, and erases the backup logs.

The GM can open the console by typing /console at the tabletop; and the player can access using the button in the upper left of launch screen.

Regards,
JPG

[DM_BK]

Logs sent to [email protected]

Definitely still having the issue.

[Tommy Mancino]

Sorry to bother you guys but wondering if there is any upcoming resolution to this before I schedule this weekend's session?

[FG_Dave]

Sorry to bother you guys but wondering if there is any upcoming resolution to this before I schedule this weekend's session?

Hello everyone involved.

I have forwarded the logs to our Network Engineer Steven so he can get a look at them. He will reply in the ticket to whoever sent in the logs.

[Moon Wizard]

@Tommy Mancino,

We did not get the logs from you. The ones you posted previously are the system event logs; which aren't relevant to FG networking.

Can you please get the logs from both the GM and player side immediately after a connection attempt or existing connection fails?

(You can get the full FG logs on the GM side by typing /console at the tabletop, and pressing the Compile Logs button.)
(You can get the player logs by the same method (if at the tabletop) or by pressing the console button in the upper left of the launch/connect screens and then pressing the Compile Logs button.)

Regards,
JPG

[Tommy Mancino]

@Tommy Mancino,

We did not get the logs from you. The ones you posted previously are the system event logs; which aren't relevant to FG networking.



It is in an earlier post.

[LordEntrails]

@Tommy Mancino,

We did not get the logs from you. The ones you posted previously are the system event logs; which aren't relevant to FG networking.

Can you please get the logs from both the GM and player side immediately after a connection attempt or existing connection fails?

(You can get the full FG logs on the GM side by typing /console at the tabletop, and pressing the Compile Logs button.)
(You can get the player logs by the same method (if at the tabletop) or by pressing the console button in the upper left of the launch/connect screens and then pressing the Compile Logs button.)

Regards,
JPG


It is in an earlier post.

Post #1 have FGU logs posted.

Tommy, can you verify these are the logs from immediately after the connection issue exists?

Just trying to reduce the amount of time the devs have to spend isolating the issue.

[Tommy Mancino]

Yes, to the best of my knowledge they are. This was a week ago, but I believe I waited until it happened again before grabbing those logs.

[smelton]

Sorry to bother you guys but wondering if there is any upcoming resolution to this before I schedule this weekend's session?

Thanks for sending the event viewer logs, unfortunately, I don't think that was the right set of events. As I mentioned before, I am able to replicate the exact error message in your logs by simulating a network disconnect. When that happens, Windows logs event ID 4004 to the Applications and Services Logs > Microsoft > Windows > Network Profile > Operational log. The quickest way to eliminate this as the root cause is to check that log again for event ID 4004 during the timeframe you were experiencing disconnects. I attached a screenshot so you know what it should look like.

Another option is to try connecting with a wired connection and see if you have the same issue.

41675

[DM_BK]

I haven't heard anything more via email..... I assume this is still an ongoing issue? I only had 1 of the 2 at the same location last night so it wasn't tested again.

[smelton]

I haven't heard anything more via email..... I assume this is still an ongoing issue? I only had 1 of the 2 at the same location last night so it wasn't tested again.

It more likely an issue with the network ... I'm currently connected to a cloud game from two laptops using the same connection without issue, both of which connected by punch-through just like your users. Would you mind messaging me on Discord (smelton#0068) so we can run some tests?

[DM_BK]

I'm going to turn you over to the people actually having the issue.

[smelton]

I'm going to turn you over to the people actually having the issue.

Sure... however, it could be an issue on either side... i.e. your router or theirs

[Weissrolf]

Try to disable IPv6 on both computers:

https://i.imgur.com/qdoYePy.png

Try to decrease MTU size in the router or both computer:

https://kb.netgear.com/19863/Ping-Test-to-determine-Optimal-MTU-Size-on-Router
https://support.purevpn.com/how-to-change-mtu-value-on-windows-xp-vista-7-and-8

[damned]

I wouldnt disable IPv6 as some of the FGU components use IPv6 if available.
It could be MTU but that seems unlikely if each can connect if they are the only one connecting from that location.
Certainly it could be MTU if both are having issues connecting from that location.

[smelton]

It's not an issue with IPv6 - both users are connecting using IPv4. Even if it was, I'd rather find and fix the problem then ask users to disable it. It's not MTU - the keep-alive packets are not large enough.

[Ecks]

I can replicate the issue if I switch wifi networks (i.e. switching from my home connection to a hotspot). Do you have multiple wifi networks and/or multiple access points?

Yes 2.4ghz and 5ghz
Do you have "Netgear Smart Connect" enabled by chance? It will use the same SSID for all WiFi bands and any clients will switch between them automatically based on signal quality. If so, it may be worth trying to disable it (though it will require changing the SSID for other bands).

https://kb.netgear.com/25346/What-is-Smart-Connect-and-how-do-I-enable-or-disable-it-on-my-Nighthawk-router

[Weissrolf]

Let me clarify my earlier suggestions: Try

as in: Troubleshooting.

[DM_BK]

To test for issues on my end...
I just set 2 laptops up on a hotspot and came through via cloud to my normal hosting machine. Both connected and have stayed connected for the last 10ish minutes.

So what's the thinking right now as to the issue? Do we have 3 parties on this thread that are reporting this problem (did I count that correctly?)? Commonalities?

[smelton]

To test for issues on my end...
I just set 2 laptops up on a hotspot and came through via cloud to my normal hosting machine. Both connected and have stayed connected for the last 10ish minutes.

So what's the thinking right now as to the issue? Do we have 3 parties on this thread that are reporting this problem (did I count that correctly?)? Commonalities?

Was that test to determine the issue was not on your end? If you want to ping me on Discord (smelton#0068) and host a game I'd be happy to connect with a couple PCs from the same house to determine its not a software issue.

[DM_BK]

I think my test, of 2 PCs connecting from the same connection, should rule out issues on my end. And possibly ruling out code issues...pushing this back into something on the users router/ISP end.

Was Tony (the OP) able to resolve this issue? If so, is there a theory as to the cause?

Maybe Cox and Comcast both rolled out something security wise in the same week....unlikely but not impossible....

[Tommy Mancino]

I think my test, of 2 PCs connecting from the same connection, should rule out issues on my end. And possibly ruling out code issues...pushing this back into something on the users router/ISP end.

Was Tony (the OP) able to resolve this issue? If so, is there a theory as to the cause?

Maybe Cox and Comcast both rolled out something security wise in the same week....unlikely but not impossible....

I am about to retest this again. If it occurs, I will again grab the logs. I do not have quick connect enabled from an earlier suggestion.......

[Tommy Mancino]

Test failed. Exact same problem. Both Player A and B are able to connect to the game, which runs fine for ~30min then disconnects. Attached are the files from Player A and B (on the same network) and the GM. There is clearly a network problem of some kind.

Tommy

[Jack M]

An additional test. Player A hosting the game instead of GM (with GM's ultimate license for testing) works fine. It is only when Player A and Player B are players in no the same network that things break.......

I am Player B in above scenario.

[smelton]

An additional test. Player A hosting the game instead of GM (with GM's ultimate license for testing) works fine. It is only when Player A and Player B are players in no the same network that things break.......

I am Player B in above scenario.

If both Player A and Player B are on the same network with Player A hosting then I would expect Player B to establish a direct connection to Player A, in which case the network traffic would not be traversing the router's public interface which is where I suspect the issue may be. Is there any kind of advanced security features (i.e. stateful packet inspection (SPI) or intrusion prevention/detection system (IDS/IPS) enabled on your router or ISP modem?

[Tommy Mancino]

If both Player A and Player B are on the same network with Player A hosting then I would expect Player B to establish a direct connection to Player A, in which case the network traffic would not be traversing the router's public interface which is where I suspect the issue may be. Is there any kind of advanced security features (i.e. stateful packet inspection (SPI) or intrusion prevention/detection system (IDS/IPS) enabled on your router or ISP modem?

This makes sense to me as well. The cloud server primarily acts as a broker then? I do not have anything on the ISP side (according to COX). I have looked at everything I can think of on my router side, nothing obvious. I have a fairly common Netgear wireless router.....

Tommy

[LordEntrails]

Tommy, Have you tried going to this page from inside your network? See if Advanced Security is enabled or disabled. COX just turned mine on for me without notifying me at one point;https://wifi.cox.com/more/my-services/my-services-disabling

Discussion here;
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?53461-Comcast-XFinity-Cox-and-Shaw-Communications-Users-Important&p=521877&viewfull=1#post521877