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SilentDragon64
November 22nd, 2020, 21:19
A little background, I play a druid and drop a lot of buff spells on my animal companion. I wanted to automate the effects of these spells, such as produce flame.
Effect: Produce Flame; DMG: 1d6+5 melee,fire
And while I've been using that for a while, when I dug into the details, I realized this isn't behaving correctly on critical hits. It's doubling the damage bonus but not adding a second die.
I just played around and discovered this effect does what I expect. It adds 1d6+5 on a normal hit and 2d6+10 on a critical. But should the effect have to be coded this way?
Effect: Produce Flame; DMG: 1d6+5 melee,fire; DMG: 1d6 melee,critical,fire
Also, the critical tag is not mentioned in the two 3.5 wikis. Is critical a range or a damage type? I'm presuming range, from the behavior and where I have to place it in the effect.

Kelrugem
November 22nd, 2020, 21:23
A little background, I play a druid and drop a lot of buff spells on my animal companion. I wanted to automate the effects of these spells, such as produce flame.
Effect: Produce Flame; DMG: 1d6+5 melee,fire
And while I've been using that for a while, when I dug into the details, I realized this isn't behaving correctly on critical hits. It's doubling the damage bonus but not adding a second die.
I just played around and discovered this effect does what I expect. It adds 1d6+5 on a normal hit and 2d6+10 on a critical. But should the effect have to be coded this way?
Effect: Produce Flame; DMG: 1d6+5 melee,fire; DMG: 1d6 melee,critical,fire
Also, the critical tag is not mentioned in the two 3.5 wikis. Is critical a range or a damage type? I'm presuming range, from the behavior and where I have to place it in the effect.

Yes, additional dice are never multiplied in crits, that is actually a rule for both, 3.5e and PF1 :) Only bonus numbers are multiplied, not bonus dice, except when mentioned otherwise of course (like weapon damage dice which have a multiplier). That is the reason why sneak attack is for example also not multiplied for crits :)

Yes, with critical as damage type you can code effects which are only applied for crits :) (other special types are precision and spell, and yes, the wiki lacks them) But before you add such a critical effect I would check whether you understood your magical effect correctly, because, as mentioned, it is a rule that bonus dice are not multiplied :) (When it is multiplied, then the text normally mentions it, like Flaming Burst mentions that there is an additional d10 for crits)

SilentDragon64
November 22nd, 2020, 21:40
Yes, additional dice are never multiplied in crits, that is actually a rule for both, 3.5e and PF1 :) Only bonus numbers are multiplied, not bonus dice, except when mentioned otherwise of course (like weapon damage dice which have a multiplier). That is the reason why sneak attack is for example also not multiplied for crits :)

Yes, with critical as damage type you can code effects which are only applied for crits :) (other special types are precision and spell, and yes, the wiki lacks them) But before you add such a critical effect I would check whether you understood your magical effect correctly, because, as mentioned, it is a rule that bonus dice are not multiplied :) (When it is multiplied, then the text normally mentions it, like Flaming Burst mentions that there is an additional d10 for crits)

I believe where our DM got the idea that it should be doubled is from p184 of the core rules:
Spells and Critical Hits: A spell that requires an attack roll can score a critical hit. A spell attack that requires no attack roll cannot score a critical hit. If a spell causes ability damage or drain (see Appendix 1), the damage or drain is doubled on a critical hit.

Kelrugem
November 22nd, 2020, 21:51
I believe where our DM got the idea that it should be doubled is from p184 of the core rules:
Spells and Critical Hits: A spell that requires an attack roll can score a critical hit. A spell attack that requires no attack roll cannot score a critical hit. If a spell causes ability damage or drain (see Appendix 1), the damage or drain is doubled on a critical hit.

ah, yeah, that is another exception :) I now read about that spell, and indeed it is more like that you have a weapon-like spell here; so, an effect would not be the correct approach (because it does not create DMG itself, it is just added as a bonus to other damage things and then my mentioned rule from above applies). Rather create a damage button for that spell and roll attack before that; FG will cater for crits when the damage comes from a damage button :)