Fatal Not Working In FGU

[Noremac]

When we try using a weapon with Fatal while rolling a crit an error message appears and the damage doesn't roll. I am not sure if there is a way to fix this. The specific weapon is Wolf Drag / Greatpick. The weird thing is the weapon used to work before some update.

[Trenloe]

Thanks for reporting. This was recently reported by someone else, but I can't recreate the issue (and they didn't reply to my post asking for more info).

Please see the questions in this post: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?50246-Pathfinder-Second-Edition-PFRPG2-Ruleset-Status-issues-and-ongoing-development&p=554982&viewfull=1#post554982

[Trenloe]

Fix found and reported in this thread: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?50246-Pathfinder-Second-Edition-PFRPG2-Ruleset-Status-issues-and-ongoing-development&p=557489&viewfull=1#post557489

[dsaraujo]

Sorry for the necro-threading, but it looks like crit immune creatures are not taking the extra dice of damage from Fatal. From the Forth Printing Errata: the Immunity to critical hits reads “When a creature immune to critical hits is critically hit by a Strike or other attack that deals damage, it takes normal damage instead of double damage.” This means what it says: The attack deals normal damage instead of double damage. Other effects specific to a critical hit still occur, such as critical specialization effects and extra damage dice from traits like deadly and fatal.

[Trenloe]

This means what it says: The attack deals normal damage instead of double damage. Other effects specific to a critical hit still occur, such as critical specialization effects and extra damage dice from traits like deadly and fatal.[/I]
Is that your interpretation or can you reference an official ruling on that?

My interpretation is this - fatal only occurs "on a critical hit" - if the target is immune to critical hits then this wouldn't apply.


The fatal trait includes a die size. On a critical hit, the weapon’s damage die increases to that die size instead of the normal die size, and the weapon adds one additional damage die of the listed size.

The full text regarding Immunity to Critical hits is as follows:

Immunity to critical hits works a little differently. When a creature immune to critical hits is critically hit by a Strike or other attack that deals damage, it takes normal damage instead of double damage. This does not make it immune to any other critical success effects of other actions that have the attack trait (such as Grapple and Shove)

I believe it is the bold highlighted section above that has led you to believe that fatal and critical specialization effects still apply? I'll agree that critical specialization effects apply as the wording is "when you make a Strike with certain weapons and get a critical success" - it doesn't mention critical "hit". Whereas the Fatal and Deadly weapon traits do mention "on a critical hit..."

So, unless there's an official ruling somewhere, I'll go with the difference being "critical hit" means that immune to critical hits will apply, whereas "critical success" means it doesn't.

[Trenloe]

From the Forth Printing Errata...
For complete information - this hasn't changed, it's exactly the same wording in the 1st and 4th printing.

[MaxAstro]

To clarify, Trenloe, the entire italicized section he posted, including the bolded part, is from the official fourth printing errata.

If you search this page for "fatal" you'll find it: https://paizo.com/pathfinder/faq

It's a clarification of the rules, rather than a text change.

[Trenloe]

To clarify, Trenloe, the entire italicized section he posted, including the bolded part, is from the official fourth printing errata.

If you search this page for "fatal" you'll find it: https://paizo.com/pathfinder/faq

It's a clarification of the rules, rather than a text change.
OK, thanks for the pointer - it's in the clarification, not the 4th printing errata itself.

That's going to take some coding to change how that works. It'll be in some future update.

[MaxAstro]

And in fairness, I wouldn't have thought it worked that way either. XD

[Trenloe]

And in fairness, I wouldn't have thought it worked that way either. XD
Yes, very weird - as they specifically are related to a critical hit - the "Soubling and Halving Damage" section on the same page (451) says: "Benefits you gain specifically from a critical hit, like the flaming weapon rune’s persistent fire damage or the extra damage die from the fatal weapon trait, aren’t doubled."

So, the extra dice from a weapon with the fatal trait is a benefit you gain specifically from a critical hit, but if the target creature is "immune to critical hits" how do you get something that is a benefit specifically from a critical hit. Very strange... I can understand the difference of a critical "success" as these aren't usually directly damage, but direct damage seem contradictory to being immune to a critical hit.

Anyway, I'll investigate coding that at some point - but leave the old code in there commented out in case the clarification/interpretation changes.

[Trenloe]

This was a bit of a pain to update - it will be in Release 19.

The first roll is a rapier (Deadly d8) and the second is a light pick (Fatal d8):

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56574

[dsaraujo]

Is that your interpretation or can you reference an official ruling on that?

I guess I lost some cred after the XP snafu... :D Thanks for the fix!

[MaxAstro]

Yeah, I think it's an issue of the wording being confusing. "Immune to critical hits" should really be "immune to critical damage"... Especially since in 1e creatures immune to crits were completely, totally immune.

[Trenloe]

I guess I lost some cred after the XP snafu... :D
Not at all. For changes like this I always want on official source - I didn't see the clarifications section separate from the errata. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.