How does FG Unity run on the Macs that were announced 11/10/2020 (the M1 chip)

[Graf]

The title says it all.

[Zacchaeus]

I assumed you meant a month ago (11th October) and was about to say that's too soon to tell but you actually meant two hours ago. So the previous sentence says it all.

And welcome to FG.

[LordEntrails]

Apple doesn't give folks like SmiteWorks early access to computers before they announce them to the public. And if I understand correctly, they don't even plan to give their early access partners access to it until the end of the month.

After the hardware is actually available (next year maybe?), then the developers at Unity will have to see how the Unity Engine runs on the architecture, and make any needed changes to their engine. Then SmiteWorks can update their code to use the new Unity Engine at that point, and of course test that it works.

[Sulimo]

I would say that it probably depends on just how good Apple's x86-64 emulation is on the new M1 chip.

I would not expect it to work natively (i.e. without emulation) until the underlying Unity Engine has been fully updated to support the M1 chip.

The Unity Engine (https://unity3d.com/unity/beta/2020.2.0b6) is still beta as far as native support for Apple silicon is concerned.

[Imagix]

After the hardware is actually available (next year maybe?)

Was this copying a quote from somewhere else? Because the Apple store claims that the M1 devices are to be delivered before the end of this month.

Having said that, I agree that it's way too early to be asking how this program will behave on the M1 devices as nobody (who didn't get one of the preview devices, and even then I suspect there would be NDAs preventing people from talking) has one yet. I'd sorta hope Smiteworks gets a unit quickly, but I wouldn't expect an answer to this question until the beginning of December.

[LordEntrails]

Was this copying a quote from somewhere else? Because the Apple store claims that the M1 devices are to be delivered before the end of this month.
A quick Google gave me a Tweet from Apple saying something to that effect. But I only took about 20 seconds and could have misread it... and probably did :)

Hence why I tried to qualify my statement with this ;

And if I understand correctly

Happy to be wrong :)

[Graf]

Hm.... I am surprised there are multiple posts about whether the machines exist.....

Big Sur beta releases, etc have been available since WWDC (so spring-ish?) where they confirmed the machines were coming this year and set out test kits (anyone with a developer license could get them). Apple world's been insane with speculation (of course), Bloomberg and Forbes have had articles and think pieces, usual leaks, mock ups, etc.

This week Apple did the "official" launch with the normal Tim Cook presentation, consumer machines are on sale and shipping, etc. There are multiple ways to get a program running (universal, using Rosetta 2, etc) that were announced during WWDC and confirmed again in the keynote (and probably elsewhere).

If it's like "we're a small company we haven't looked at it" then that's the answer. Obviously I'm sad, b/c I kickstarted b/c mac-support. But it may be that the answer is just Rosetta2 "just works".

[Zacchaeus]

I'd imagine that the people who posted aren't Apple users so aren't paying attention to what they are announcing; which may be why there is speculation about the existence of the machines. I am guilty here as well and probably shouldn't have posted but I still think that it's too early to tell.

[Moon Wizard]

We are a small company; and other than the announcement, we haven't really looked at it for several different reasons.
* Since we have been heads down working towards FGU release this month and starting on the next cycle, we have not had any bandwidth to explore this.
* Also, since we are using Unity as the game engine for FGU, we are dependent on them having a final version before we can build a native version.
* So, even with new hardware and tools from Apple, we can't do anything without Unity supporting the platform.

My assumptions and hopes at this point are:
* The native emulation for the new hardware and OS will run existing Mac applications for the short term.
* The Unity game engine will have the ability to build native applications for the new hardware by Q1 2021.
* We can use the Unity game engine to build a "universal" application using our existing Mac hardware.

So, we'll know more as actual consumer hardware hits the streets (which is not even available for sale until next week).

Regards,
JPG

[spoonhead]

Well any new mac with Apple silicon will have Rosetta 2 for X-86 emulation, until they decide that it’s no longer required. Apple are suggesting 2 years before the complete switch. For them, waiting for the big player Adobe, will be key, but they did the same when they switched from power pc to intel about 15 years ago.

The good news is that apps made for iPad and iPhone, can run natively on the new macs without any changes.

[Imagix]

Sure.. but as Rosetta 2 is a new system, it is unknown exactly how faithfully it will run x86 code. That's not to say (or imply) that it will be unreliable as a whole. But FG (and perhaps Unity) may do something a little odd that Rosetta doesn't emulate correctly. Then people would come back and yell at Smiteworks: "But you said it would work!"

Smiteworks is taking the correct approach here and not claiming support until they can at least get their hands on the new hardware to put the program through its paces and they have the confidence that it works before coming forward to say that it is supported. End users can evaluate for themselves whether they want to take the risk themselves, Smiteworks has to be concerned with the commercial aspects.

[Dimwhit]

Smiteworks is taking the correct approach here and not claiming support until they can at least get their hands on the new hardware to put the program through its paces and they have the confidence that it works before coming forward to say that it is supported. End users can evaluate for themselves whether they want to take the risk themselves, Smiteworks has to be concerned with the commercial aspects.

Apple has had a developer machine available for a couple months now, so the hardware has been available. That's why so many developers have M1 support already (or will by next week).

My machine comes next week, so I guess I'll find out how well FG Unity runs under Rosetta. It runs like crap on my 8-year old mac mini, so I figure it should at least by usable, if not quite a bit better, under Rosetta.

[Graf]

* The native emulation for the new hardware and OS will run existing Mac applications for the short term.
* The Unity game engine will have the ability to build native applications for the new hardware by Q1 2021.
* We can use the Unity game engine to build a "universal" application using our existing Mac hardware.

So, we'll know more as actual consumer hardware hits the streets (which is not even available for sale until next week).

Regards,
JPG

Quick update.
Yeah. Everything works fine. I migrated over to an M1 air today and it "just works". My 2013 laptop would get screaming hot and die running FGU for more than 10 minutes; I've had it up in the background for 3x that and it's not even warm. Also startup was much quicker.

(I suppose it's rosetta but it's not obvious).

Anyway sorry for worrying about it.

[Graf]

41858

Update on the update. It stopped working... attached the error message. It worked multiple times before.

[Dimwhit]

41858

Update on the update. It stopped working... attached the error message. It worked multiple times before.

So I had that happen last week. I deleted the app and re-downloaded/installed it and it worked fine after that. Not sure what was causing that.

[Graf]

So I had that happen last week. I deleted the app and re-downloaded/installed it and it worked fine after that. Not sure what was causing that.That worked. But then it stopped working again. Will try to redownload. The secret may be to never turn the program off..... (Which is tricky).

[Graf]

It's pretty time-consuming having to redownload everything.

[Dimwhit]

It's pretty time-consuming having to redownload everything.

Definitely annoying. No clue what caused this to start happening. There wasn't a Big Sur update right beforehand, so I don't know what it could be. Maybe a Fantasy Grounds update broke something.

[LordEntrails]

Deleting and uninstalling is rarely the best approach. Often times a router/modem or security software will flag the large download of numerous files as a flood attack or similar and will stop the download half-way through. Uninstalling just means you have to start over. Instead, check your network security for things like, QoS, Flood Protection, Parental Controls, and Advanced Security. See if any of them might have settings or warnings that they blocked attacks or possible attacks.

[Graf]

Deleting and uninstalling is rarely the best approach. Often times a router/modem or security software will flag the large download of numerous files as a flood attack or similar and will stop the download half-way through. Uninstalling just means you have to start over. Instead, check your network security for things like, QoS, Flood Protection, Parental Controls, and Advanced Security. See if any of them might have settings or warnings that they blocked attacks or possible attacks.

I'm sorry but... what are you talking about? Are you sure you're responding to the right thread?

The program used to launch, now it doesn't. No one's talking about networks, hacking or.... whatever.

[Graf]

Definitely annoying. No clue what caused this to start happening. There wasn't a Big Sur update right beforehand, so I don't know what it could be. Maybe a Fantasy Grounds update broke something.

Yeah. Since it worked several times for a while, but now I'm forced to reinstall each time I close it feels like an FG change. But it's hard to know for sure. Maybe there was a Big Sur change or something and I missed it.

[Sulimo]

I do not believe Fantasy Grounds Unity is officially supported on the M1 chip. It may work (or may have worked), but it is not guaranteed to work.

As Moon Wizard said (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?63517-How-does-FG-Unity-run-on-the-Macs-that-were-announced-11-10-2020-(the-M1-chip)&p=555921&viewfull=1#post555921) they are a small development team that does not actually have the the resources or hardware available to test with at the moment. Moon Wizard specifically said he hoped that the emulation would work, but that does not mean that it will actually work, especially as they have no means to test it on M1 hardware.

[Dimwhit]

I think if I keep having the crashing issue, I may try installing it into Crossover, depending on how well that does with another app I'm going to install into it.

[Shieldstromme]

I was having the same problem & found that doing an update from the main menu fixed it. Unfortunately it looks to re-load EVERYTHING when you do this which takes a very, very long time. I currently have my data drive stored on iCloud Drive & I thought this may be part of the problem - but it seems like people are having issues when the data drive is not in cloud storage?

I've also found that FGU runs perfectly when it's just me preparing the campaign I'm running but crawls to an unusable halt when players connect. I guess we'll have to wait for the universal app.

[Nylanfs]

Do not have your live campaign data on a synced location, you will potentially lose it at some point. You can back up to a cloud drive okay.

[Dimwhit]

For what it's worth, FGU opened up fine for me yesterday and today, so it's not a problem that happens every time on my end.

[Shieldstromme]

Just played tonight - moved all data files off of iCloud Drive & all seemed to be well.....until FGU threw a load of network errors and crashed WiFi (had to toggle it on & off). Thought it might have been a coincidence but then did exactly the same a few mins later.

[Dimwhit]

In case anyone is still having issues and still following this thread...I tried launching today but it wouldn't. I was about to delete and reinstall, but then I spied FGUpdatedEngine.app in the SmiteWorks folder. So I launched that Updater directly. It launched, updated the app, then FG launched. So you might try that before anything else if it's not launching.

[Graylock]

So, it seems I can't even install FGU on my M1 mac running Big Sur 11.0.1. Anyone else having this problem?

[Dimwhit]

So, it seems I can't even install FGU on my M1 mac running Big Sur 11.0.1. Anyone else having this problem?

Are you getting an error when you try to install it?

[Shieldstromme]

I frequently have issues with FGU crashing on launch on my M1 Mac mini. Usually running the updater fixes the problem. Last week I did have to remove the FantasyGrounds application file from the applications/smiteworks/Fantasy Grounds folder and re-run the updater (which downloaded the app again) which fixed the issue. I guess Rosetta doesn't like something about the FGU update process.

I'm also pleased to report that the previous crashing the wi-fi issues I was having appear to have been resolved when I replaced my router and was able to Ethernet cable up. Ran a session last Friday without any issues at all and MUCH quicker than my old Mac mini. Really looking forward to native support 'cause it should really fly!

[Graylock]

No, but I did figure it out. New M1 and, of course the first thing I did was try to get FG installed and it didn't work. But then I updated the OS. After that it opened the Fantasy Grounds .pkg file, asked to install Rosetta, then installed FG. Now FG runs fine. Blazingly in fact. I haven't migrated my campaign data yet or host a game, but seems good so far.

[ryatat]

No, but I did figure it out. New M1 and, of course the first thing I did was try to get FG installed and it didn't work. But then I updated the OS. After that it opened the Fantasy Grounds .pkg file, asked to install Rosetta, then installed FG. Now FG runs fine. Blazingly in fact. I haven't migrated my campaign data yet or host a game, but seems good so far.

Hey there, do you have any experience with older MacBooks? I have a 2015 MacBook Pro i7, and it runs FGU fine except that the fans go crazy when I run it, and the thing really heats up. I’m afraid that if I run it for long periods of time I’ll ruin my MacBook. I checked the CPU in Activity Monitor and it’s running between 60 and 110%. Do you have that issue with the new M1 Chip?

[Valyar]

Hey there, do you have any experience with older MacBooks? I have a 2015 MacBook Pro i7, and it runs FGU fine except that the fans go crazy when I run it, and the thing really heats up. I’m afraid that if I run it for long periods of time I’ll ruin my MacBook. I checked the CPU in Activity Monitor and it’s running between 60 and 110%. Do you have that issue with the new M1 Chip?
I have player with old MacBook and Unity is such power hog there -- the battery is over in less than half an hour, fans cause lift off and the only way to lessen the pressure on the machine is to use the /vsync command to reduce the frames, but this makes the whole experience shoddy

[Graylock]

I ran FG and FGU on a 2012 mac mini for years. The fans ran constantly and increased/decreased when maps were opened. The 2012 mini had a bog standard intel integrated graphics chip and only a i3 two-core processor. The M1 Apple silicon blazes in comparison without a fan and it doesn't produce any noticeable heat. Other graphic intensive applications, like using DungeonFog, InDesign, LogicPro and other heavy applications, has no lag and super performance. I have yet to encounter an incompatibility issue with any applications. So far this has been incredible. They must have their hands on a crashed UFO and revere engineered it into the M1 silicon.

[ryatat]

I ran FG and FGU on a 2012 mac mini for years. The fans ran constantly and increased/decreased when maps were opened. The 2012 mini had a bog standard intel integrated graphics chip and only a i3 two-core processor. The M1 Apple silicon blazes in comparison without a fan and it doesn't produce any noticeable heat. Other graphic intensive applications, like using DungeonFog, InDesign, LogicPro and other heavy applications, has no lag and super performance. I have yet to encounter an incompatibility issue with any applications. So far this has been incredible. They must have their hands on a crashed UFO and revere engineered it into the M1 silicon.

That’s awesome! I’m am probably going to get one just based on your feedback. Which MacBook are you using? Air? Pro? Mini? Thanks again

[Graylock]

I have the Air and output FGU to a 31" screen at highest resolution as I am running google Meet on the laptop screen. The laptop isn't even getting warm. Crazy

[Bald Fraud]

Hello there, sorry to revive this thread, but the comments are 2 month old and im curious how Unity is performing in the M1 for you guys, my DM bought one and I am afraid of crashs and bad performance. We are trying to "revive" or old table, and its his only machine. I know I am suffering from anticipation as he have not tested it yet, but any suggestions or help for possible problems based on your experience would be appreciated. thanks.

[Zardoz89]

M1 mini here, it works with flawless grace

[Dimwhit]

Still working great. Only issue I've had since I got my M1 was that it stopped launching. But launching the Updater app directly, updated, then launching it from there fixed it. Actual gameplay is flawless.

[kajip]

So reading through this it seems like the M1 Macs run FG OK - which is good as I'm considering getting one of these but have another question for anyone using one of these machines: can you run two instances at once without issue? I do that ocassionally with my current laptop (one instance for me as DM and one output to a monitor for the players) so would like to be able to still do this if possible. Thanks

[jaharmi]

@kaljp From your last post, it isn’t clear if you’re using a Mac for Fantasy Grounds Unity right now. One limitation of the current M1 devices (as of this writing) is that the MacBook Air/Pro laptops support only one external display, and the Mac mini supports two displays (Thunderbolt/USB-C, plus HDMI). With the laptops’ built-in displays, each current M1 Mac supports two total displays.

If you have or intend to use more than one external display and intend to get a laptop, you may want to wait to see what future Apple Silicon Macs offer for external display support. If you are looking at a Mac mini for two external displays, note that at least one of them will need to use HDMI.

According to another thread (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?59342-Multiple-instances-of-FG-on-Mac), you can use the “open” command to get another instance of FG:


open -n -a FantasyGrounds.app

The key is the “-n” option on the “open” command. From the command’s man page:


-n Open a new instance of the application(s) even if one is already running.

[Locotomo]

Hi there,
I own a Ryzen 3700x Windows PC and a M1 Mac Mini. The Mac runs FGU like a charm. The air thats coming out the backside of the mac mini is even colder than the room temperature :D .
I would welcome a native FGU app, but i am also more than happy with the Intel emulation. When I start Starfinder or Pathfinder 2nd, it even loads 15 seconds faster on the M1 Mac than on the PC.

regards, Loco

[jaharmi]

Hi there,
I own a Ryzen 3700x Windows PC and a M1 Mac Mini. The Mac runs FGU like a charm. The air thats coming out the backside of the mac mini is even colder than the room temperature :D .
I would welcome a native FGU app, but i am also more than happy with the Intel emulation. When I start Starfinder or Pathfinder 2nd, it even loads 15 seconds faster on the M1 Mac than on the PC.

regards, Loco

@Locotomo A few questions regarding your M1 Mac mini setup:


Are you using a single monitor, or two displays?
Have you tried two instances of FGU on it?
Do you have 8 or 16 GB of RAM?
I’m curious if you have any issues you might attribute to the amount of RAM.


Thanks!

[Locotomo]

@Locotomo A few questions regarding your M1 Mac mini setup:


Are you using a single monitor, or two displays?
Have you tried two instances of FGU on it?
Do you have 8 or 16 GB of RAM?
I’m curious if you have any issues you might attribute to the amount of RAM.


Thanks!

Hi there,
I am using 2 Monitors. 5120x1440 and 4K.
I only use 1 instance. Never tried two.
16GB RAM.
No issues so far :)

regards, Loco