Wall Types and Features

[mattekure]

With the new wall types, I wanted to document the types and what I believe are the features. Feel free to correct me if any of this is wrong.



Wall Type
Blocks Movement
Blocks Vision
Player Toggleable
Lockable
Shape
Notes


Wall
Yes
Yes
No
No
Line
Standard Wall


Terrain
No
Can see into, but not beyond. While inside can see out. Toggleable
No
No
Closed Polygon
Useful for elevation, forest, or other areas that you can pass through, but not see beyond.


Door
Yes (Toggleable open/close)
Can see space in the doors area, but not beyond. Toggleable
Yes if unlocked.
Yes, DM can lock/unlock using Shift-Click
Closed Polygon
Standard Door


Toggleable Wall
Yes (Toggleable)
Yes (Toggleable)
No, DM only
No
Line
Useful for secret doors/walls


Window
Yes (Toggleable)
No
Yes if unlocked
Yes, DM can lock using shift-click
Line
Could be useful to represent bars or cage. Can see through, but not move through.


Illusionary Wall
No
Yes
No
No
Line
Only way to notice is to attempt to move through. no visual indication. this can be used to represent curtains that block vision, but allow movement through or magic illusion walls, etc.


Pit
Does not block movement into pit, once inside, blocks movement out (Toggleable)
Does not block vision while outside of pit, once inside blocks vision out (Toggleable)
No, DM only
No
Closed Polygon
experimental, may change. Open pits block movement and vision when the token is inside. Closed pits have no effect on movement or vision.

[g0ntzal]

Thanks mattekure. It is a very useful info.

[pindercarl]

Two notes: 1) For the window type, you note that you can see in. That should be see through. 2) Open pits block movement and vision when the token is inside. Closed pits have no effect.

[mattekure]

thanks, updated

[Larsenex]

This is very helpful! I was wondering how to make a portcullis which blocks movement and not sight. This totally does it!

Great job Smiteworks!

[SilentRuin]

Kind of like golf - I love this - and hate it - as now I have to update my campaign maps I put LOS in (sigh).

[kevininrussia]

Question about PIT. The only way for a player to get out of a PIT is for the DM to move them out of it correct?

[pindercarl]

Question about PIT. The only way for a player to get out of a PIT is for the DM to move them out of it correct?

Or for the GM to close the pit.

[mattekure]

If the pit is OPEN, then it affects players inside. if the pit is CLOSED then it doesnt affect the players movement or vision.

[Kelrugem]

I reeally like pits and illusionary walls. These add more dynamics, and the interaction with the map is more intense (in sense of that players can discover something on the map without the immediate need of the GM) :)

[LordEntrails]

Thanks mattekure, well done! Very useful :)

[ddavison]

Hey Matt,

Would you mind if I copy this over to the wiki?

[Dr0W]

I'd like to suggest something.

I really, really like the window one but I don't like that it works as a door. I'd like to suggest that either there's an option to lock it so the players can't hover their mouses and see that there's a window there, or that there's a completely different wall that does exactly the same: Blocks movement, lets you see through.

The reasons are: asthethics, but also sometimes you want to have an invisible wall that players don't know it's there (like an invisible labyrinth).

And while I'm at it, I'd also want to suggest to make it possible to Snap to grid points when putting the walls. Right now it only snaps to other walls (which is really cool), but it would make the job way easier to setup up walls for some types of maps (usually square ones that are aligned to the grid).

Thanks a lot for the guide, mattekure.

[Kelrugem]

I'd like to suggest something.

I really, really like the window one but I don't like that it works as a door. I'd like to suggest that either there's an option to lock it so the players can't hover their mouses and see that there's a window there, or that there's a completely different wall that does exactly the same: Blocks movement, lets you see through.

The reasons are: asthethics, but also sometimes you want to have an invisible wall that players don't know it's there (like an invisible labyrinth).

And while I'm at it, I'd also want to suggest to make it possible to Snap to grid points when putting the walls. Right now it only snaps to other walls (which is really cool), but it would make the job way easier to setup up walls for some types of maps (usually square ones that are aligned to the grid).

Thanks a lot for the guide, mattekure.

Just to be sure, with the first suggestion you just mean to turn off the hover-overlay? :) (because the windows/gates can be locked such that they cannot be opened but looked through)

About the grid snapping: For me it works well to use the keyboard for adding LoS nodes, using the arrow keys to jump on a grid basis (and in pixels when pressing some hotkey, shift I think) :) Then Space for adding nodes (or Enter to finish it afterwards) :)

[Zacchaeus]

Snap to grid could be a useful option, but I have to say for over 90% of the maps I've added occluders to it wouldn't have helped in any way. I agree with Kel, use the arrow keys to move the map to your next point. By keeping the mouse steady you'll reach the next grid intersection just fine - as long as the map is gridded appropriately :)

[mattekure]

Hey Matt,

Would you mind if I copy this over to the wiki?

Absolutely, feel free.

[Dr0W]

Just to be sure, with the first suggestion you just mean to turn off the hover-overlay? :) (because the windows/gates can be locked such that they cannot be opened but looked through)

About the grid snapping: For me it works well to use the keyboard for adding LoS nodes, using the arrow keys to jump on a grid basis (and in pixels when pressing some hotkey, shift I think) :) Then Space for adding nodes (or Enter to finish it afterwards) :)

Yes, just turning off the hover overlay would definitely work.

Also now that I'm at it, I'd like to suggest the ability of locking secret walls "Why? The players can't see it."
But perhaps a clumsy GM who wants to click around might accidentally click on the secret wall and reveal it's secretive content to the players since there's no confirmation.

Not that it has ever happened to me like three times...

[Larsenex]

Wait.. you mean if I am drawing a line of LOS I can hit space bar along the way to drop a node?????

[Dr0W]

Wait.. you mean if I am drawing a line of LOS I can hit space bar along the way to drop a node?????

Yes. And you can also hit Enter to put a "final node".

[Dr0W]

About the grid snapping: For me it works well to use the keyboard for adding LoS nodes, using the arrow keys to jump on a grid basis (and in pixels when pressing some hotkey, shift I think) :) Then Space for adding nodes (or Enter to finish it afterwards) :)

Oh, right, now THAT's new info to me. Thanks a lot. And yea, I do agree that it's way easier to do it by using arrow keys and space bar. :)

Sorry for the double post, I wanted to edit one of my posts actually.

[ColinBuckler]

One thing I would like to see with doors and other player activated map items is an option to send a message to the chat window who clicks and opens/closes the door.

A configuration option in the menu to:

Off (default) - no message
DM - Send message to DM
ALL - Send message to DM and Players

Ran a game a while a go and players kept opening the doors and I had no idea who it was. It was really irritating. I believe you can lock the doors, but a message would be really helpful as it doesnt stop players closing the doors.

[Kelrugem]

A suggestion for the table: Maybe adding an info about whether the corresponding LoS entity needs to be a closed polygon? :)

[Sulimo]

One thing I would like to see with doors and other player activated map items is an option to send a message to the chat window who clicks and opens/closes the door.

A configuration option in the menu to:

Off (default) - no message
DM - Send message to DM
ALL - Send message to DM and Players

Ran a game a while a go and players kept opening the doors and I had no idea who it was. It was really irritating. I believe you can lock the doors, but a message would be really helpful as it doesnt stop players closing the doors.

Shift+Click to lock the doors, if you did not know.

Your idea of a message to chat when someone opens a door is interesting. You might put it on the wish list.

https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/

[mattekure]

A suggestion for the table: Maybe adding an info about whether the corresponding LoS entity needs to be a closed polygon? :)

Great suggestion. Added

[Jiminimonka]

Wait.. you mean if I am drawing a line of LOS I can hit space bar along the way to drop a node?????

This doesnt work in my Linux build. Enter for the final node works, but space bar does nothing at all.

[Kelrugem]

Great suggestion. Added

Cool, thanks :)

[Pepor]

Really useful. Thanks!

[SilentRuin]

With the new wall types, I wanted to document the types and what I believe are the features. Feel free to correct me if any of this is wrong.



Wall Type
Blocks Movement
Blocks Vision
Player Toggleable
Lockable
Shape
Notes


Wall
Yes
Yes
No
No
Line
Standard Wall


Terrain
No
Can see into, but not beyond. While inside can see out. Toggleable
No
No
Closed Polygon
Useful for elevation


Door
Yes (Toggleable open/close)
Can see space in the doors area, but not beyond. Toggleable
Yes if unlocked.
Yes, DM can lock/unlock using Shift-Click
Closed Polygon
Standard Door


Toggleable Wall
Yes (Toggleable)
Yes (Toggleable)
No, DM only
No
Line
Useful for secret doors/walls


Window
Yes (Toggleable)
No
Yes if unlocked
Yes, DM can lock using shift-click
Line
Could be useful to represent bars or cage. Can see through, but not move through.


Illusionary Wall
No
Yes
No
No
Line
Only way to notice is to attempt to move through. no visual indication


Pit
Does not block movement into pit, once inside, blocks movement out (Toggleable)
Does not block vision while outside of pit, once inside blocks vision out (Toggleable)
No, DM only
No
Closed Polygon
experimental, may change. Open pits block movement and vision when the token is inside. Closed pits have no effect on movement or vision.



Thrice damn this "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to mattekure again." - why must you be so reputable?

Very nice job.

[GrumpyOldAndy]

Love the Illusory wall type. Works perfectly for curtains across a doorway.

[Moon Wizard]

We actually use the terrain type for curtains in some of the modules; since it allows you to see into the space to view the curtain graphic without allowing players to see through. Curtains was actually one of the debates we had on what to call the illusory wall feature.

Cheers,
JPG

[sciencephile]

Love the new types.

Question about the window ... what do you do if a window is boarded up or otherwise so dirty that you cannot see through it? I guess there would also be cases where it was a tall building and the window is 15 feet up, thus you would see that the window is there but not be able to see past it.

I know a SHIFT+click locks it. Is there a similar function to obscure (so you can't see though it) or do we just make those windows doors instead since you wouldn't see past them without opening them?

[mattekure]

Love the new types.

Question about the window ... what do you do if a window is boarded up or otherwise so dirty that you cannot see through it? I know a SHIFT+click locks it. Is there a similar function to obscure (so you can't see though it) or do we just make those windows doors instead since you wouldn't see past them without opening them?

At that point its just a door. I would use a regular door there.

[sciencephile]

At that point its just a door. I would use a regular door there.

That's what I was thinking but I wanted to make sure as I hate to keep switching back and forth, particularly if I just didn't know a feature existed. Thanks.

[eriktedesco]

Hi guys, I seem to have an issue with the new pit type.

last release of FGU. I have placed a pit in dungeon, opened it so that my dear players could fall into it.

As far as I have understood, if I lock token movement and one of my player's planned movement pass on the pit, the pit should block the player's movement from progressing.

However, the movement don't stop and the player seems to float on the pit, without giving a damn.

Am I doing something wrong?

Thank you very much for your patience.

[mattekure]

Hi guys, I seem to have an issue with the new pit type.

last release of FGU. I have placed a pit in dungeon, opened it so that my dear players could fall into it.

As far as I have understood, if I lock token movement and one of my player's planned movement pass on the pit, the pit should block the player's movement from progressing.

However, the movement don't stop and the player seems to float on the pit, without giving a damn.

Am I doing something wrong?

Thank you very much for your patience.

I think you have the open/closed status reversed. When the pit is closed, the characters can see into the pit, but once inside cant get out. When the pit is marked open, FG basically ignores it and it doesnt restrict sight or movement. so to trap your players, mark it closed.

[eriktedesco]

Found the issue...wrong layer...stupid me...

ok, the PG falls into the pit when it is toggled open, while it can moves on it when it is toggled closed

[Kelrugem]

I think you have the open/closed status reversed. When the pit is closed, the characters can see into the pit, but once inside cant get out. When the pit is marked open, FG basically ignores it and it doesnt restrict sight or movement. so to trap your players, mark it closed.

It is the opposite :D Open pit means active :) (because the pit is open, you need to understand that literally :D) then it blocks movement and vision, once inside. When it is closed (like a filled pit), then it is basically inactive :) (or I am now confusing open/closed states :D)

[mattekure]

It is the opposite :D Open pit means active :) (because the pit is open, you need to understand that literally :D) then it blocks movement and vision, once inside. When it is closed (like a filled pit), then it is basically inactive :) (or I am now confusing open/closed states :D)
I think you are right. I even explained it that way in the OP. Too many cool new things and my brain is getting old.

[Kelrugem]

I think you are right. I even explained it that way in the OP. Too many cool new things and my brain is getting old.

No worries :) I was confusing it sometimes, too :D

[amerigoV]

Love the new types.

Question about the window ... what do you do if a window is boarded up or otherwise so dirty that you cannot see through it? I guess there would also be cases where it was a tall building and the window is 15 feet up, thus you would see that the window is there but not be able to see past it.

I know a SHIFT+click locks it. Is there a similar function to obscure (so you can't see though it) or do we just make those windows doors instead since you wouldn't see past them without opening them?


I posted feedback that it should have a second toggle for LOS. Another way around it aside from the door suggestion is to put terrain on either side to toggle that as well. Cumbersome either way.

[Kelrugem]

I posted feedback that it should have a second toggle for LOS. Another way around it aside from the door suggestion is to put terrain on either side to toggle that as well. Cumbersome either way.

I think the best might be some quick way to change the type of an LoS entity to another one, that would allow a quick editing like of a window because the players want to board that window for some reason :) (like clicking on the nodes, and then on the LoS type to change it to that type; but there are surely a lot of problematic edge cases, like switching to a polygon-type while the nodes are not yet forming a closed polygon, and so on)

[pindercarl]

Hi guys, I seem to have an issue with the new pit type.

last release of FGU. I have placed a pit in dungeon, opened it so that my dear players could fall into it.

As far as I have understood, if I lock token movement and one of my player's planned movement pass on the pit, the pit should block the player's movement from progressing.

However, the movement don't stop and the player seems to float on the pit, without giving a damn.

Am I doing something wrong?

Thank you very much for your patience.

Just to eliminate the simplest possibility, do you have LOS enabled? If so, can you attach a zipped-up copy of your campaign folder so that I can take a look? Thanks.

[eriktedesco]

Just to eliminate the simplest possibility, do you have LOS enabled? If so, can you attach a zipped-up copy of your campaign folder so that I can take a look? Thanks.

Hi pindercarl! I solved the problem (check post #36). I was working with the wrong layer. The new types are just amazing.

Thumbs up and keep up the good work.

[pindercarl]

Hi pindercarl! I solved the problem (check post #36). I was working with the wrong layer. The new types are just amazing.

Thumbs up and keep up the good work.

I did miss that post. Glad everything is working out.

[demonsamurai]

Do doors need to be a rectangular polygon? or can they not just be a line?
Also, i cant seem to use shift + click to toggle them locked. Any suggestions?

[Zacchaeus]

Do doors need to be a rectangular polygon? or can they not just be a line?
Also, i cant seem to use shift + click to toggle them locked. Any suggestions?

Yes, doors (and terrain) need to be closed polygons. They don't need to be rectangular but need to have a shape and be closed. A single line won't work very well.

You can only SHIFT click to lock a door when you have enabled the LoS on the map (in other words as if in an actual play session). Opening and shutting a non locked door is achieved by simply clicking on it (again while LOS is enabled in Play mode).

[Jiminimonka]

Since token movement speed is on the cards for an update, maybe door opening direction and double doors might be too? It is Christmas after all ;)

[demonsamurai]

Cheers guys, sorted ! Didn't know that doors need to be polygons and not just lines. Thanks so much.

[SashaJace]

Are open pits blocking token visibility on the opposite side for anyone else?
They aren't creating a occluded line of sight problem, but tokens on opposite sides can't see each other.
Since pits are marked 'experimental' i wanted to see if this was a problem others were experiencing before going looking for an extension that's causing an issue.

[Kelrugem]

Are open pits blocking token visibility on the opposite side for anyone else?
They aren't creating a occluded line of sight problem, but tokens on opposite sides can't see each other.
Since pits are marked 'experimental' i wanted to see if this was a problem others were experiencing before going looking for an extension that's causing an issue.

Yeah, there seems to be a bug; kevininrussia reported that recently, and as far as I know the devs are aware of that :)

[DaveArtis]

Here's the problem I have. I'm trying to add LOS to a town map. I can get the roof lines using terrain occluders but there is nothing to stop the players from walking right through the buildings. What I need would be something like transparent walls or movement blocking terrain. Blocking terrain would be my first choice for what I'm trying to do because I could put in the roofs and be done with it. Although transparent walls would be really nice for railings and other similar situations. I tried using the window occluder for walls but that didn't work out too well.

[LordEntrails]

Here's the problem I have. I'm trying to add LOS to a town map. I can get the roof lines using terrain occluders but there is nothing to stop the players from walking right through the buildings. What I need would be something like transparent walls or movement blocking terrain. Blocking terrain would be my first choice for what I'm trying to do because I could put in the roofs and be done with it. Although transparent walls would be really nice for railings and other similar situations. I tried using the window occluder for walls but that didn't work out too well.
Then add a window. But honestly, I've never had a player do a dufus move and try to walk through a building. At some point we have to chose the people we play with, and share a level of trust and respect for each other. No computer system is going to replace that.

My advice, don't worry about it. If it becomes a problem, then talk to the player(s). If they can't show you the respect and play according the "rules" then you have a different issue. then figure out what you're going to do at that point.

[GrumpyOldAndy]

I'm a little confused. Is this a top down view of the town? If so, why would the players be able to see over rooves unless they are taller than the building?

[ddavison]

For maps with pitched roofs, I normally draw a separate terrain occluder for each roof facing. Players on one side of the building can see NPCs or other players on that roof, but anything on the opposite roof face are normally obscured. If a player walks through a building, they would essentially be climbing on the roof and then going over the building. That is just a GM and player interaction that needs to be handled by you instead of being imposed by the software. We won't ever know the intention of the player programmatically.

[DaveArtis]

For maps with pitched roofs, I normally draw a separate terrain occluder for each roof facing. Players on one side of the building can see NPCs or other players on that roof, but anything on the opposite roof face are normally obscured. If a player walks through a building, they would essentially be climbing on the roof and then going over the building. That is just a GM and player interaction that needs to be handled by you instead of being imposed by the software. We won't ever know the intention of the player programmatically.

That's pretty much what I am doing for the roofs of the buildings. I just thought that impassable transparent walls was just a logical extension of normal walls. From what you are saying we should just be on the honor system for players not walking through buildings. If that is the case then why have normal walls and windows block movement?

[Griogre]

This is a good question but the answer is we normally use 2D maps top down view maps. So for things of the same elevation the walls, windows, pits work well. But when you add elevation or the height dimension you start to have a problem since you are adding a dimension the 2D top down maps don't represent well.

This is the same problem I have with a lot of forest maps. How many character really walk on the canopy, the top limbs of the trees? They don't unless flying. So why show the tops of the trees or the roofs of the town? It looks good and it's easy.

[ddavison]

People can't simply walk through normal walls inside of a building or a cave. Outside in a fantasy world, people can climb, fly, or levitate over terrain at very early levels in their character lifetime. The map allows them to be on the roof, but a building or a roof on its own is not a hard and fast limit to movement.

[LordEntrails]

That's pretty much what I am doing for the roofs of the buildings. I just thought that impassable transparent walls was just a logical extension of normal walls. From what you are saying we should just be on the honor system for players not walking through buildings. If that is the case then why have normal walls and windows block movement?
What's wrong with using a window like I suggested posts ago? It does exactly what you want, allows vision, blocks movement.

[DaveArtis]

People can't simply walk through normal walls inside of a building or a cave. Outside in a fantasy world, people can climb, fly, or levitate over terrain at very early levels in their character lifetime. The map allows them to be on the roof, but a building or a roof on its own is not a hard and fast limit to movement.

True, but climbing onto a roof is a non trivial task even for "Heroic" characters and should involve at least an ability check of some kind. If they succeed then it is easy for the DM to move them onto the roof.


What's wrong with using a window like I suggested posts ago? It does exactly what you want, allows vision, blocks movement.

It works in controlling access but every building on the player side turns into a bright yellow box with an open/close toggle when the mouse cursor is over the building. I could live with that but it is not ideal.

[kevininrussia]

What's wrong with using a window like I suggested posts ago? It does exactly what you want, allows vision, blocks movement.

Maybe he means he wants it to block LOS too. So Terrain that blocks movement.

[ddavison]

You can turn off and on whether a window or terrain can be toggled. Take a look at the TEST channel rewrite or wait for it to go to LIVE.

[DaveArtis]

Maybe he means he wants it to block LOS too. So Terrain that blocks movement.

Not quite. Terrain that blocks movement, maybe.

For what I want to accomplish either a transparent wall that blocks movement but not LOS or terrain that blocks movement. Although the more I look at the problem the more I think that transparent walls would be the way to go.

[DaveArtis]

You can turn off and on whether a window or terrain can be toggled. Take a look at the TEST channel rewrite or wait for it to go to LIVE.

I didn't know that would be something in the next release. Would disabling whether a window would be toggleable remove the yellow box?
If it does then, problem solved! I had originally tried using windows but the yellow boxes were distracting and broke immersion.

I'm really looking forward to the next release with dynamic lighting.