UI Consistency - Am I the only one who wants this?

[phloog]

(Note: If it's not currently coded like this and this is an issue with my PC or install, please let me know)

It seems like there is a lot of inconsistency in the UI, which makes it incredibly hard for me to win my players over to FG versus Roll20 or other options (I have owned them all, pretty much, starting with DMGenie (I miss that SO much!) and Klooge).

Sometimes if you click on something, no dice are rolled, because apparently that function requires a double click. So you learn your lesson and double click it.

Now you need a different kind of roll, so having wised up you double click...and watch as two dice scatter across the chat window.

If it truly is designed this way, may I ask WHY? Between this, the rather funky targeting, and just a general lack of intuitive design, my players are getting fed up. It's okay to have a learning curve, but there are some fairly fundamental rules of graceful UI design that seem to have been ignored. I'm not Mr. Computer and I see these issues....imagine what it's like when two of my players are actually IT professionals in their 50s.

If there is a simple design reason for the one highlighted gripe (double versus single) I'd love to hear it.

[dmbrown]

No you are not. There are some times you have to click twice and others you only click once. I agree that it should be consistent and only have to click on something once to roll the dice. There has been many times in my group where people have accidentally rolled 2 dice.

There would be times we’d ask each other “am I suppose to click on this button once or twice?”

[Trenloe]

Some of this might be down to different developers doing different things.

The standard is that rollable fields (usually a number/bonus field with a small die icon in the corner) requires a double-click to roll, and buttons that initiate an action require a single-click to trigger that action.

EDIT: Anything added to a hotkey is a single click to activate, even if it was a double-click at source.

If this is not the case, then please provide some examples - stating the ruleset used, if any extensions were used, and ideally showing some screenshots to help identify exactly where the action is initiated.

[esmdev]

(Note: If it's not currently coded like this and this is an issue with my PC or install, please let me know)

It seems like there is a lot of inconsistency in the UI, which makes it incredibly hard for me to win my players over to FG versus Roll20 or other options (I have owned them all, pretty much, starting with DMGenie (I miss that SO much!) and Klooge).

Sometimes if you click on something, no dice are rolled, because apparently that function requires a double click. So you learn your lesson and double click it.

Now you need a different kind of roll, so having wised up you double click...and watch as two dice scatter across the chat window.

If it truly is designed this way, may I ask WHY? Between this, the rather funky targeting, and just a general lack of intuitive design, my players are getting fed up. It's okay to have a learning curve, but there are some fairly fundamental rules of graceful UI design that seem to have been ignored. I'm not Mr. Computer and I see these issues....imagine what it's like when two of my players are actually IT professionals in their 50s.

If there is a simple design reason for the one highlighted gripe (double versus single) I'd love to hear it.

In my games some of my players drag and drop rolls on the chat window and others drag common rolls to the function keys. It is rare that they click / double click for your reason. Fortunately there are plenty of ways to avoid it. If they do roll multiple rolls we just take whatever the first roll was and ignore whatever came after. Sometimes it requires some manual fiddling but that's makes it a little more tabletop and a little less DMing by botting which makes me feel awesome and powerful!!! ;)

[dmbrown]

Thanks Trenloe for the clarification. I’ll convey that to the players in my game tomorrow, though I think they should standardize it to one click across the software. Maybe the rollable fields have a button next to it, so you just click once similar to how the spells work. After Unity is released they should have a UX/UI expert take a look and recommend some ways they can update the software and I am sure that there some changes that could be made that wouldn’t require rewriting the software from scratch.

[dmbrown]

I have told my players about the function keys, but I don’t think they use them, though I’ll remind them tomorrow. Though that might help the software still needs some UX/UI love. I wish it was more like HTML and less like XML then it would be easier to mod the interface.

[Trenloe]

Thanks Trenloe for the clarification. I’ll convey that to the players in my game tomorrow, though I think they should standardize it to one click across the software. Maybe the rollable fields have a button next to it, so you just click once similar to how the spells work.
There's a reason why fields require double-click to action: rollable fields sometimes need to be edited, to start that process you single-click on them. This is also true for rulesets where actions are highlighted in the text - single-click to edit, double-click to do the highlighted action.
And adding in additional buttons to do a single click next to a field where you usually double-click is going to make an already busy interface (in places) even busier and probably cause more confusion.

I understand the desire for conformity. However, unless a developer has specifically designed something differently, there usually is conformity - buttons/hotkey bar single-click, fields containing data double-click. So, a bit of player education and maybe a bit more obvious details in FG documentation/videos to help with that education - because we know everyone reads manuals/wikis and watches videos, right? ;)

[LordEntrails]

You can't have one-click on everything. Otherwise rollable fields that are also editable can't be selected without rolling them. So every time you wanted to edit one of those fields, you would have to roll it and then edit it. And that would garner complaints. Making things that can't be edited, like hotkeys etc require double clicks would then garner complaints that why do you have to double click it when a single click doesn't do anything.

Note that this is not an issue unique to FG, I see it in other software that has similar types of fields.

[dmbrown]

I wasn’t suggesting that the rollable fields would work with one click, but have a button next to them like spells do. It would also be like ability checks and saves, with the little 20 sided die icon next to them that you click on. I believe that skills work that way too, but weapons require you to double click on the field and maybe there are others too?

I’ve been using FG for about 3 years now and my friends and I love the fact that it allows us to connect and play. The people in my group are in their mid forties to early fifties, so some times they still have problems with using the program. If the user interactions were consistent and streamlined I think that it would allow for easier adoption of FG for new users.

After Unity is out they should have a UX/UI person look over FG and give them some feedback and work with the developers as to what could be changed. I saw one of the Fantasy Grounds Friday’s with Dominic as a guest and he showed off one of things that he was working on, which was having the windows act more like a tradition computer program window, with the various buttons. That is a step in the right direction, but it hasn’t been implemented yet and hopefully there be more changes like that in the future.

[LordEntrails]

Add it to the wish list :)
Just remember, every element you add to the character sheet makes it larger, and most people complain their is not enough screen space as it is.

[Trenloe]

I wasn’t suggesting that the rollable fields would work with one click, but have a button next to them like spells do.
Sorry, my mistake. My comments about UI space still apply though.


It would also be like ability checks and saves, with the little 20 sided die icon next to them that you click on.
I'm not aware of these - which ruleset are you referring to please?

[wndrngdru]

I'm not aware of these - which ruleset are you referring to please?

I'm guessing he's referring to the little d20s next to the rollable fields in 5E.
It took me a long time to realize that those were just a graphic indicator and not a special "button" that I had to double-click.

[Trenloe]

I'm guessing he's referring to the little d20s next to the rollable fields in 5E.
It took me a long time to realize that those were just a graphic indicator and not a special "button" that I had to double-click.
Yeah, that's what I'm trying to find out, because that probably doesn't help if those "roll" indicates are thought to be single click buttons.

[dmbrown]

Sorry. Yes, it is the 5e rulesets and that is one of the spots I was talking about. They do kind of look like buttons and I know my players and I have tried to press on them on several occasions.

[Trenloe]

Sorry. Yes, it is the 5e rulesets and that is one of the spots I was talking about. They do kind of look like buttons and I know my players and I have tried to press on them on several occasions.
Nope, they are number fields that are rollable by double-clicking. They aren't buttons, it would be a very, very tiny button if it was. ;) It's an indicator to show that if you double-click on the number field, or you drag/drop the number field, an appropriate roll will be made.

See the "Dice Icon" paragraph here: https://fantasygroundsunity.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/FGU/pages/688323/Basic+Actions#Number-Fields

So, like I mentioned before - number fields with the dice icon, double-click. Press-able buttons and hotkeys are single-click. Keeping this in mind, and learning the difference, will go a long way to clearing up the confusion (hopefully). :)