High resources utilisation

[caste381]

Hi all,

I have been suggested by you support team to post here about a problem I am experiencing with MacOS. I have a MacBook Pro with 2.7 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 and a MacBook Air with 1.2 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7.
On both of them the CPU/GPU utilisation is inexplicably high even with no players connected.
Could I please know what these CPU/GPU cycles are being used for?

Thank you

[qdwag]

I'm curious as to which version of MBP you have. What year is it? What GPU does it have?

[caste381]

Hi qdwag. The MBP is 2018. Graphics by Interl Iris plus 655 (1536mb). The air is 2020 with Intel Iris Plus Graphics 1536 MB

[Zarkamorta]

Hi, I am having the same problem with a Surface Pro 7 running Win 10. It also has an Intel Iris Plus. Basically, just starting FGU has the GPU running at 100 % while the CPU is at 5-8 %. I think, it is a general problem FGU has with modern integrated GPU. Got mixed feedback ranging from don‘t expect your laptop being able to run FGU decently to it is a known issue. My feeling is, currently nobody is looking into the problem.

[caste381]

Yeah, what I find confusing is that I can run far more CPU intensive applications, virtual machines and the lot, without hitting the roof.
There is clearly something wrong.
A friend of mine joked that FGU might be mining crypto in the background :)

[Zarkamorta]

True, I was told by one dev that the basic FGU desktop corresponds to 14k triangles. If this is true there is for sure a problem. But so far not much more feedback on the issue. So, some people say it is a problem, other say don’t expect your laptop to run FGU. It is a bit frustrating. Personally, I think it should run on a laptop with medium specs (or at least the basic features) otherwise they will loose a lot of customers, since dedicated gaming rigs are not that common anymore these days.

There are two longer threads dealing with the issue:

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?56503-FGU-using-GPU-at-almost-100/page8

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?60015-can-we-get-some-GPU-optimisation/page2

[caste381]

Thank you. Useful info.
TBH these machines are quite expensive and fairly capable. I would not accept having to get higher specs.
Let's be honest: FGU should consume FAR less resources.
When the GUI is sitting idle and no-one is connected, there is no justification to use more than 2-3% to display a static image

[Zarkamorta]

Yes, I have the same perspective. Also, even if I would be willing to upgrade my laptop and get one with a gtx 1650 or the like, this is nothing I could expect from my players. So, there is always a large likelihood that there is at least one „slow system“ in every gaming group, which will make it difficult to run a session under the current conditions.

[Trenloe]

In one of the threads linked above, one of the main developers says "To be clear, we are still working on optimizations to improve performance right now. So, hopefully it should slowly get better as we adjust."

I know that they sometimes struggle to get good reproducible situations, which is why he also mentions: "However, if you are running in a scenario where performance is clearly impacted, please provide the exact scenario where the performance is not good. (i.e. game system, extensions used, modules loaded, etc.) And, simpler is better; if you can recreate with a minimal scenario (brand new campaign with minimal data/extension)."

@caste381 thank for providing some info. Can you please provide more of the information mentioned? "i.e. game system, extensions used, modules loaded" - thanks!

[Zarkamorta]

From my understanding, there are many people running into performance issues just launching FGU. So, in my case just starting the app, there is already heavy GPU load on the campaign selection menu. Just opening a new campaign with no modules loaded makes the GPU run at 100 %. Opening any map drops the FPS count down to something like 20 frames.

[Trenloe]

What ruleset?
What resolution is the map?
If it's a map from a module, exactly which map is it?

I understand you are experiencing high resource use and are of the opinion that it should just be fixed. But just saying you're having issues without giving the details asked for by the developers isn't really going to help them narrow down the issue. So, please provide the details requested - ruleset, extensions, modules, etc.. If something is hard for the devs to reproduce this helps them to try to identify common denominators that could help in finding solutions. We all want FGU to work well for as many people as possible, so please help the devs do that by providing the information they're asking for.

[Zarkamorta]

I provided all the details in prior posts (mid May 2020), including detailed software and hardware specs as well as measurements:

„5E Sample Campaign, Simple Gray, Battle Map01 open and zoom to fit, not using any effects“

You will find all the details here:

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?56503-FGU-using-GPU-at-almost-100/page6

I even installed Intel Graphics Performance Analyzers, a tool to optimize GPU load during software development, and provided some snapshots. Further, I offered to also install the Unity SDK (if available at no cost, which I think it is) and run performance analysis.

[Trenloe]

Thanks for previously providing the information @Zarkamorta.

@caste381 - I'm sure this is the type of information support would have wanted you to post here when they directed you to the forums.

[qdwag]

I'm curious as to whether or not, a slow client, would bottleneck everyone else playing. Does anyone know if that sort of thing is possible with FGU?

[readymeal]

i was about to make several tests... then i decided to check it from the start... I would really like to know why FGU needs on average 15% of a GTX 1660 TI...(it s fluctuating between 7% and 30%...) while still on the loading page. 38591

From then i continued and opened a session, graphic card requirements are fluctuating between 15-20% without anything open then it s increasing to a a good 30% when i open a map with LOS (Cragmaw Castle) and the power consumption becomes high to very high.

This is all with 5E.

I know these numbers are not that useful as per Wizard but that s all i have got... FGU needs a lot of graphic card processing...

Not surprised that integrated graphics can t keep up. Might have to stick to FGC or get a gaming laptop (My GTX 1050 TI in my previous laptop was running at 50% and was very hot to touch...so you better go big)

At the same time it s not affecting any FGU running functions, but it needs to pedal fast and hard in the background to get these results, hopefully it comes with smaller cog soon :)

[Zarkamorta]

Wow, this is interesting, from my understanding the GTX 1660 Ti and some less the GTX 1050 Ti are both top tier mobile GPUs for high performance gaming laptops made to run AAA titles at full HD and even above. So if the 1050 runs at 50 % and very hot to touch and the 1660 at 30 %, I think there is something in the current build of FGU causing hiccups. I also had a look at the starting price point for a GTX 1660 Ti laptop, which I consider above my range to justify for just running FGU, since I am gaming on a console.

Even, if I would bite the bullet and get a high end gaming laptop, I could not expect this from my players. So, even if my system runs fast, the systems of a couple of players will run very slow, stalling the game.

I read another post, where the GM basically had to move the player‘s token and carry out actions for the player, since the player‘s system was running slow.

[readymeal]

Wow, this is interesting, from my understanding the GTX 1660 Ti and some less the GTX 1050 Ti are both top tier mobile GPUs for high performance gaming laptops made to run AAA titles at full HD and even above. So if the 1050 runs at 50 % and very hot to touch and the 1660 at 30 %, I think there is something in the current build of FGU causing hiccups. I also had a look at the starting price point for a GTX 1660 Ti laptop, which I consider above my range to justify for just running FGU, since I am gaming on a console.

Even, if I would bite the bullet and get a high end gaming laptop, I could not expect this from my players. So, even if my system runs fast and the systems of a couple of players will run very slow, stalling the game.

technically speaking a 1050 is now lower tier and a 1660 is mid tier (you can get a gaming laptop with a RTX 2080 if you have the mean). They are indeed able to handle AAA games very well hence my surprise with FGU requiring that much power but having not much to show for it. (unless the FGU map making tool is always running in the background by default... that would explain some need of graphic card processing, DungeonDraft (another map making software) also in Beta is using roughly the same amount)

However interestingly, it does not seem to change the end results, whatever your integrated GPU is about to self combust or my gaming laptop is running at 30% capacity, the results seems to be the same, i don t think i load or process things faster than you.
It won t change anything for anyone...except their computers running (too) hot.

[Sulimo]

technically speaking a 1050 is now lower tier and a 1660 is mid tier (you can get a gaming laptop with a RTX 2080 if you have the mean). They are indeed able to handle AAA games very well hence my surprise with FGU requiring that much power but having not much to show for it. (unless the FGU map making tool is always running in the background by default... that would explain some need of graphic card processing, DungeonDraft (another map making software) also in Beta is using roughly the same amount)

However interestingly, it does not seem to change the end results, whatever your integrated GPU is about to self combust or my gaming laptop is running at 30% capacity, the results seems to be the same, i don t think i load or process things faster than you.
It won t change anything for anyone...except their computers running (too) hot.

Don't confuse correlation for causation.

I can tell you for certain that FGU works just fine in a VM with 8GB RAM, no direct access to the video hardware, and a spinning rust hard drive.

It also works fine on lower spec hardware. I believe LordEntrails mentioned a while back that he uses a 5 year old (maybe older) laptop, and he does not see these types of issues.

So it is not as simple as stating that you need a high end video card.


Not being a developer, I can only speculate, but I would guess it is some combination of the Video Driver version, something in Unity that does not interact well with that particular version, and potentially the DirectX version (for Windows).

From what I have seen of the posts from the devs, they have been struggling to reproduce this themselves, so fixing it is not going to be easy.

The problem of course is repeatability so the devs can model it themselves and determine what is happening. They cannot purchase every piece of hardware out there, so they need as much detail as possible to see if they can come up with some repeatability to help them resolve it.

[caste381]

Thanks for previously providing the information @Zarkamorta.

@caste381 - I'm sure this is the type of information support would have wanted you to post here when they directed you to the forums.

You are absolutely right. No one can fix anything without the right info.
In my case I started with a clean install, created a new 5E campaign with no extensions, no modules and no players connected. Both CPU and GPU are on 50% average.
If I open the three core rulebooks and the three official additional rulebooks, the average goes up to 60/70%.
Opening a random image downloaded from the Internet (1300x950) maxes everything out.

As I said earlier, this is on a MacBook Pro 2018 and a MacBook Air 2020 (the latter with maxed specs), so fairly pricey machines.
Graphics software such as Blender, flight simulators and astronomy software with good rendering details all perform better.
I say this does not look right. It should not be a matter of throwing more cycles to the software, but rather understanding what is going wrong.

[readymeal]

Don't confuse correlation for causation.

I can tell you for certain that FGU works just fine in a VM with 8GB RAM, no direct access to the video hardware, and a spinning rust hard drive.

It also works fine on lower spec hardware. I believe LordEntrails mentioned a while back that he uses a 5 year old (maybe older) laptop, and he does not see these types of issues.

So it is not as simple as stating that you need a high end video card.


Not being a developer, I can only speculate, but I would guess it is some combination of the Video Driver version, something in Unity that does not interact well with that particular version, and potentially the DirectX version (for Windows).

From what I have seen of the posts from the devs, they have been struggling to reproduce this themselves, so fixing it is not going to be easy.

The problem of course is repeatability so the devs can model it themselves and determine what is happening. They cannot purchase every piece of hardware out there, so they need as much detail as possible to see if they can come up with some repeatability to help them resolve it.

I don t think i did, i made a simple observation based on my limited sample. Surely not enough to make any conclusion.

Once again, i never said FGU does not work well in a lower spec computer(it looks like it works the same regardless of config), all i said is it requires a lot of graphic cards processing in some configurations (integrated and dedicated) which seems to over stressed some built. Hence my advise to upgrade if one does not want to have its laptop running at 100% for hours on or stick to FGC until Smite works finds what s going on.

Would you be able to share your spec and tell us what the task manager is showing when running FGU? That could help as well.

[LordEntrails]

Here's a benchmark for those interested (and hopefully a simple enough test many others can duplicate);

FGU launch screen, resting
~10% CPU Load total, 3.6 GB RAM utilized
FG using ~2.5%, 113 MB RAM

Creating & Opening New 5E Campaign
Peak CPU ~31%, Average ~25%, Resting ~12%
Resting FGU 290MB, ~4% CPU load

PHB, MM, DMG, DoMM loaded
Peak Total CPU ~42% CPU
Resting FG process ~5.5% CPU, 1670MB, GPU ~20%

Computer
Dell Precision M3800 (laptop)
Intel i7-4712HQ, [email protected] GHz
16 GB RAM
Windows 10 Pro, 64 bit
NVidia Quadro K1100M (Driver version 425.45)

Those are well within my performance expectations. And we can see the issues with FGU performance are not universal.

[readymeal]

Thx Mate, this is getting very funny...

there is obviously something going on... looking at our both graphic cards...

https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-Quadro-K1100M-vs-Nvidia-GTX-1660-Ti/m10244vs4037

Maybe recent integrated and dedicated graphic cards can t seem to deal with simple FGU graphic computations ha!

Unfortunately, i don t have any 5E core books so i can only load SRDs and basic rules. If i had your computer i would totally expect and accept these results... i might have to look at under clocking my graphic card...more power is not always better.

with a campaign opens: only about 15-20% GPU, opening a LOS map adds another 15% then any additional one add few more percents. I end up with a steady 30% with a LOS map open. CPU and memory are not too much of a concern.

Wondering what the Devs have been using to create FGU?

[LordEntrails]

Wondering what the Devs have been using to create FGU?
Don't know specifically, but I believe they have a dozen or so computers they test on, from 5+ yr old Macs to brand new ones. And I believe their Windows boxes have a larger range.

[Sulimo]

I don t think i did, i made a simple observation based on my limited sample. Surely not enough to make any conclusion.

Once again, i never said FGU does not work well in a lower spec computer(it looks like it works the same regardless of config), all i said is it requires a lot of graphic cards processing in some configurations (integrated and dedicated) which seems to over stressed some built. Hence my advise to upgrade if one does not want to have its laptop running at 100% for hours on or stick to FGC until Smite works finds what s going on.

Would you be able to share your spec and tell us what the task manager is showing when running FGU? That could help as well.

I don't know what use specs would be since I run FGU in a VM (as I do with all Beta software). It has 4 virtual CPUs assigned, with 8GB RAM (static), and ~20 GB of drive space used. It's running Windows 10 ver. 2004.

Back in June, I took some traces using Resource Monitor from the same VM, and to my eye, there is not a lot of difference to what I took just now (there is always going to be some variance). This is despite multiple people commenting on the improved performance (I cannot find that thread at the moment though). I definitely saw the improvements as well at the time (June/July forget when though).

I use Resource Monitor instead of the Task Manager. I've always felt it paints a better overall picture.

The first two traces are from the 5e sample campaign (something that comes with FG), no extensions.

The third trace is from RMC, I don't use 5e at all typically, and I do not have any modules for it. I don't run any extensions.

This is from June 6:
https://i.imgur.com/4znnRBN.png

Same scenario just now:
https://i.imgur.com/q8lqHph.png

This is a new campaign with a custom adventure module I made, with a map with LoS, this is from today as well:
https://i.imgur.com/H0MIyKb.png

As you can see, nothing really jumps out. Yes, the CPU load is high when it is starting up and loading assets, that is somewhat expected though. The VM tends to struggle a bit sometimes, but I don't notice it when actually using the program. Most users with an i7 CPU are going to see 4 CPU/8 Thread, whereas the VM just has 4 CPUs/4 Threads.

The spikes in the disk usage don't really mean anything, the scale only goes to 100 KB per sec. If it was sustained above that for a significant amount of time the scale would change automatically, I think it goes to 1 MB per sec next. So no sustained high disk usage.

Unfortunately, ResMon does not track GPU usage, that is the one drawback to using it to compare with Task Manager.


The above is why is suspect drivers. As mentioned though, it could be something in the way Intel architected the Iris graphics between generations (Intel is not exactly what I would consider a leader in GPU development). It's difficult to tell without debugging tools that can look deeper into things.


Here's a question for those with GPU spikes, if you are on a Laptop with integrated graphics and discrete graphics, have you tried to disable one or the other GPU (integrated vs. discrete)?

We experienced issues with the Windows choosing the integrated GPU instead of the discrete one causing significant performance issues.

[readymeal]

....

Here's a question for those with GPU spikes, if you are on a Laptop with integrated graphics and discrete graphics, have you tried to disable one or the other GPU (integrated vs. discrete)?

We experienced issues with the Windows choosing the integrated GPU instead of the discrete one causing significant performance issues.

well i have a dedicated GTX 1660 TI in my laptop... i have forced FGU to use the integrated graphics or the graphic card in 2 different tests, same results. Using the graphic card there are a lot more options to play with though...

[caste381]

Thanks everyone for your input.

@Developers: can we have acknowledgment that you are looking into this, please?

Thank you!

[Moon Wizard]

We are looking into this; but as has been mentioned in this thread a few times, we're struggling to reproduce this issue.

Now, the general load on a graphics card is somewhat fixed by the fact that we're using Unity; and I'm not really worried about FGU running in the 30-70% range on a modern GPU. The main issues that I'm worried about are when the CPU utilization jumps to 250%+ on the MacBook Pros; which points to something not working as expected.

I think Carl and I have seen this a total of 3 times on our internal Macs over the last 6 months during testing; and we've never been able to recreate to investigate deeper. The last time it happened when I was testing a new build on Mac last week; but I wasn't in debug mode at that time (since I was specifically testing a Live build for release). I did verify that it was not a runaway thread creation situation, which was one of our hypotheses; as well as verifying that it didn't seem to be tied to image controls (LoS, FoW, etc.). In my test, it happened when just testing player connection and player character selection between Windows and Mac machines.

If anybody using a Mac can provide any information on what triggers this scenario, it would be very useful to us.

Regards,
JPG

[caste381]

Thank you.
Is there any other information you would need from me?
Any logs or other info that might help?

Thanks

[qdwag]

Definitely not LOS related Moon Wizard. I’ve experienced it with no maps loaded. Will note things down soon as I see it occur again.

[LordEntrails]

FG logs can be captured by typing /console in chat and then picking the Compile logs button.
You can get your Mac system logs with these instructions; https://www.howtogeek.com/356942/how-to-view-the-system-log-on-a-mac/#:~:text=View%20System%20Logs%20in%20the,%3E%20App lications%20%3E%20Utilities%20%3E%20Console.

[caste381]

Thank you.

I have forwarded the logs to the support team via email.

[Zacchaeus]

Interestingly this weeks after the patch my player's CPU usage stayed steady at around 300%. Still high of course but considerably reduced from previous sessions.

[Zarkamorta]

Here's a benchmark for those interested (and hopefully a simple enough test many others can duplicate);

FGU launch screen, resting
~10% CPU Load total, 3.6 GB RAM utilized
FG using ~2.5%, 113 MB RAM

Creating & Opening New 5E Campaign
Peak CPU ~31%, Average ~25%, Resting ~12%
Resting FGU 290MB, ~4% CPU load

PHB, MM, DMG, DoMM loaded
Peak Total CPU ~42% CPU
Resting FG process ~5.5% CPU, 1670MB, GPU ~20%

Computer
Dell Precision M3800 (laptop)
Intel i7-4712HQ, [email protected] GHz
16 GB RAM
Windows 10 Pro, 64 bit
NVidia Quadro K1100M (Driver version 425.45)

Those are well within my performance expectations. And we can see the issues with FGU performance are not universal.


Hi LordEntrails,

What was the screen resolution for those benchmarks. I would like to replicate them on my Surface Pro 7 to compare them. I already noticed that GPU load scales with resolution. To be able to compare the results, I would like to run the benchmarks at the same resolution. And could you maybe add a benchmark with a map open, because this puts extra stress on my GPU. Further, do you have FPS counts and GPU load for those benchmarks? Though, since your GPU stays at max 20 % I would guess it should be 60 FPS?!

In theory, my GPU should be faster than yours, but this is definitely not the case in FGU. I have massive problems running the software.

https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-Quadro-K1100M-vs-Intel-Iris-Plus-G4/m10244vsm921079

[LordEntrails]

Hi LordEntrails,

What was the screen resolution for those benchmarks. I would like to replicate them on my Surface Pro 7 to compare them. I already noticed that GPU load scales with resolution. To be able to compare the results, I would like to run the benchmarks at the same resolution. And could you maybe add a benchmark with a map open, because this puts extra stress on my GPU. Further, do you have FPS counts and GPU load for those benchmarks? Though, since your GPU stays at max 20 % I would guess it should be 60 FPS?!

In theory, my GPU should be faster than yours, but this is definitely not the case in FGU. I have massive problems running the software.

https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-Quadro-K1100M-vs-Intel-Iris-Plus-G4/m10244vsm921079
1920 x 1080

Don't have frame counts etc. I'll see if I can redo this and try and capture more numbers. Also with opening some maps.

If you take this test and extend it with steps, I'll reproduce that. Whoever gets there first:)

[Zarkamorta]

Here's a benchmark for those interested (and hopefully a simple enough test many others can duplicate);

FGU launch screen, resting
~10% CPU Load total, 3.6 GB RAM utilized
FG using ~2.5%, 113 MB RAM

Creating & Opening New 5E Campaign
Peak CPU ~31%, Average ~25%, Resting ~12%
Resting FGU 290MB, ~4% CPU load

PHB, MM, DMG, DoMM loaded
Peak Total CPU ~42% CPU
Resting FG process ~5.5% CPU, 1670MB, GPU ~20%

Computer
Dell Precision M3800 (laptop)
Intel i7-4712HQ, [email protected] GHz
16 GB RAM
Windows 10 Pro, 64 bit
NVidia Quadro K1100M (Driver version 425.45)

Those are well within my performance expectations. And we can see the issues with FGU performance are not universal.

So here are my benchmarks in comparison on a Surface Pro 7 (which GPU is more powerful than the Nvidia Quadro K1100M, all benchmarks are at the same resolution of 1920x1080):

Win 10, resting
CPU, 1%, 3.4 GHz, 2.8 GB
GPU 0%, 0.1 GB

FGU launch screen, resting
CPU 9%, 3.5 GHz, 2.9 GB
GPU 25%, 0.3 GB, 60 FPS

FGU New 5E Campaign, No Extensions, LAN, scaleui 100, resting
CPU 13%, 3.5 GHz, 2.9 GB
GPU 32%, 0.2 GB, 60 FPS

FGU New 5E Campaign, as above+PHB, MM, DMG, FG Battle Maps, resting
CPU 13%, 3.5 GHz, 3.3 GB
GPU 33%, 0.2 GB, 60 FPS

FGU, New 5E Campaign, as above, BattleMap_Cave01 open, resting
CPU 10%, 1.0 GHz, 3.6 GB
GPU 98%, 0.3 GB, 42 FPS

So basically my GPU already sees a higher load in the 5E campaign, though it should be more powerful than yours. The moment I open a map the GPU jumps to 100% and starts throttling the CPU and the FPS decrease.

I still think there is something faulty with how FGU handles modern GPUs, no matter if they are integrated or dedicated. I can play Fortnite on my Surface Pro 7 at 45 - 60 FPS and this should be more demanding than FGU. Also a load of 15 % on a GTX 1660 Ti or 50 % on a GTX 1050 Ti (other post) sounds rather high compared to what FGU is graphically doing.

I still hope that the Dev will look into this and fix it.

[Tuleen Donai]

Interestingly this weeks after the patch my player's CPU usage stayed steady at around 300%. Still high of course but considerably reduced from previous sessions.

Did you really mean 300%? :-) And, that's reduced?

[LordEntrails]

Did you really mean 300%? :-) And, that's reduced?
yep, people were reporting over 700%

[caste381]

I still think there is something faulty with how FGU handles modern GPUs, no matter if they are integrated or dedicated. I can play Fortnite on my Surface Pro 7 at 45 - 60 FPS and this should be more demanding than FGU. Also a load of 15 % on a GTX 1660 Ti or 50 % on a GTX 1050 Ti (other post) sounds rather high compared to what FGU is graphically doing.

That's exactly my point. As good as FGU is, it is a "simple" piece of software, graphically speaking. Such a high use of resource is very difficult to justify.
As said in another post, I do not see why an empty campaign with no users connected should use more than 1-2% of CPU.

[LordEntrails]

That's exactly my point. As good as FGU is, it is a "simple" piece of software, graphically speaking. Such a high use of resource is very difficult to justify.
As said in another post, I do not see why an empty campaign with no users connected should use more than 1-2% of CPU.
Resource utilization is not justified, and I don't recall anyone ever trying to. The devs have stated time and again they are working on performance. They have always stated, and users here have proven, that performance is not universal to all platforms.

The devs are and will keep working on performance tuning. If you want to help, provide detailed system specs, usage cases and all the other info so that they can duplicate your issue (if possible) and so that they can figure out what the difference are between systems that see better performance and worse performance. The need help (data) to identify what programs, dlls, hardware, settings or other differences that account for the difference performance seen by different users.

[caste381]

Resource utilization is not justified, and I don't recall anyone ever trying to. The devs have stated time and again they are working on performance. They have always stated, and users here have proven, that performance is not universal to all platforms.

The devs are and will keep working on performance tuning. If you want to help, provide detailed system specs, usage cases and all the other info so that they can duplicate your issue (if possible) and so that they can figure out what the difference are between systems that see better performance and worse performance. The need help (data) to identify what programs, dlls, hardware, settings or other differences that account for the difference performance seen by different users.

I have provided info in the previous posts and sent system logs and specs via email to support.
Good to know you also believe high utilisation is not justified.
I have seen some post talking about upgrading hardware...

[caste381]

Hi all,

Not sure if this can help but I have upgraded to Big Sur 11.2.1 and I still see the usual CPU utilisation creeping up.
What I have noticed is that if I bring another program to the foreground, after a while the CPU utilisation goes down. I assume it's because FGU stops rendering.

[Trenloe]

Have you tried using the /vsync chat command to reduce the frame rate?

Information here: https://fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?56503-FGU-using-GPU-at-almost-100&p=551846&viewfull=1#post551846

[caste381]

Have you tried using the /vsync chat command to reduce the frame rate?

Information here: https://fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?56503-FGU-using-GPU-at-almost-100&p=551846&viewfull=1#post551846

Thank you Trenloe. Yes, I have. The results are not too different from what I reported in the past. Reduction in CPU is not high but a low refresh rate makes the whole experience a bit frustrating

[dimonic]

Just thought I'd put my experience in here too.

I use a Thinkpad T440 with 12 Gb Ram, Core i7-4600U CPU @ 2.1 GHz. When I run Classic, no problems. When I run Unity, discord falters. I try /vsync 4 and it helps, but eventually (within an hour) I lose communications with my players. In one game, I have a player who basically can't run it at all, but even among those who can, it basically can only play for about 1-2 hours before we get difficulties. Another DM is experiencing exactly the same issues, and the third DM uses discord on a separate machine and his system still couldn't run Unity.

I have an ultimate license for both products, but I never play the Unity version because it sucks so hard. I don't appreciate that one needs a gamer rig to play the thing. We are TTRPG players, not video gamers at core. I will continue to use Classic, but it is a shame that you are no longer supporting it. Does smiteworks track usage statistics at all?

[LordEntrails]

SW tracks usage, and posts them several times a year. See Ddavisons blog.

FGU does not require a gaming rig, or anything near that. I run on an 8 year old laptop with acceptable performance with pretty large campaigns, Los and vision.

If you wish to post detailed info, logs, sample campaign etc, folks are happy to give advice. The most common things are to check your video driver settings, make sure the card is use application settings for FGU. The other is to use vsync and image quality settings.

[Trenloe]

Just thought I'd put my experience in here too.

I use a Thinkpad T440 with 12 Gb Ram, Core i7-4600U CPU @ 2.1 GHz. When I run Classic, no problems. When I run Unity, discord falters. I try /vsync 4 and it helps, but eventually (within an hour) I lose communications with my players. In one game, I have a player who basically can't run it at all, but even among those who can, it basically can only play for about 1-2 hours before we get difficulties. Another DM is experiencing exactly the same issues, and the third DM uses discord on a separate machine and his system still couldn't run Unity.

I have an ultimate license for both products, but I never play the Unity version because it sucks so hard. I don't appreciate that one needs a gamer rig to play the thing. We are TTRPG players, not video gamers at core. I will continue to use Classic, but it is a shame that you are no longer supporting it. Does smiteworks track usage statistics at all?
There’s some good feedback that's worth trying in this thread: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?69722-Feedback-on-performance-with-map-position-and-image-effects

[Moon Wizard]

The most common issue that people have had is that there graphics driver is forcing frame rates to be uncapped, instead of what the application requests. Check that your graphics driver settings (NVidia/Radeon) are not overriding application frame rates.

Regards,
JPG

[damned]

I don't appreciate that one needs a gamer rig to play the thing.

I know it doesnt solve your issue but maybe it might encourage you to keep tinkering with settings.
Im on an 8yr old i5 CPU with 8GB ram.
I have put a 2GB GFX card in there (the cheapest one I could find) and a similarly cheap SSD and it handles all the different FGU that I do on it.

Its very possible that the GFX card in the laptop is an issue but I would definitely try the gfx card setting suggestions the others have made.

[readymeal]

The most common issue that people have had is that there graphics driver is forcing frame rates to be uncapped, instead of what the application requests. Check that your graphics driver settings (NVidia/Radeon) are not overriding application frame rates.

Regards,
JPG

after months of cooking sausage sizzle on my laptop vents, the only thing i managed to achieve is bringing GPU usage from 30% to 10%... but only on the loading page...you know the still frame page...before you even start a campaign (And i thought why is this page requires so much graphic power)

So i have been playing with multiple graphic card settings tonight (including capping frame rate to 20), force FGU to use the integrated graphic card or chocking all my GTX 1660 Ti settings, Vsync does not seem to do anything on my side for some reason.

The best i can get is bringing the GPU load from 30% to 20% on a Map with lights and LOS on, music (just kidding) and tokens moving around with various visions... and still that bloody fan running...


LoardEntrails and Damned, why don t you tell us what your GPU loading is in task manager with your 8yo computer in normal FGU use? I am curious cause at the end what s acceptable for one might not be for someone else.

[Trenloe]

The best i can get is bringing the GPU load from 30% to 20% on a Map with lights and LOS on, music (just kidding) and tokens moving around with various visions... and still that bloody fan running...

LoardEntrails and Damned, why don t you tell us what your GPU loading is in task manager with your 8yo computer in normal FGU use? I am curious cause at the end what s acceptable for one might not be for someone else.
GPU running at 30% should be fine.

Is it that 30% the thing that's not acceptable to you? Or is it the fan running? Seems to be the latter, but I just want to be sure what is actually acceptable to you.

Assuming it's the fan running and blowing hot that's the main thing, then other areas should be looked at. What's the CPU load? How old is your computer, and when was the last time the cooling vents were given a good clean? I had a 7 year old laptop (high-end when I bout it) that started running hot constantly a year ago for any intensive task - I tried lots of things to try to reduce load on the system, but it still ran hot. I took it apart, cleaned up all the vents and fans, and put new thermal conducting compound between the heatsinks and chip - then it ran much cooler and quieter. A computer cooling system loses efficiency over time - due to particles in the air sticking to the cooling system and heat compound slowly losing efficiency.

[YAKO SOMEDAKY]

Currently I play on a PC that is practically 12 years old (i7 3770, 16 GB DDR3 1600, SSD 480 GB with Windows 10 updated in version 21H1) the games go well and without problems, my only comparative complaint between the FGC and the FGU is that information from spreadsheets loads faster into the FGC.
I play SWADE and Rolemaster Classic and switching between tabs (at least in these rule sets) is very slow compared to FGC, no matter if using extensions or not.

[damned]

My GPU is running at 30-45%
Its a desktop not a laptop so it is going to cool better
I dont think my GPU has a fan - just a big heat sink

[dimonic]

SW tracks usage, and posts them several times a year. See Ddavisons blog.

FGU does not require a gaming rig, or anything near that. I run on an 8 year old laptop with acceptable performance with pretty large campaigns, Los and vision.

If you wish to post detailed info, logs, sample campaign etc, folks are happy to give advice. The most common things are to check your video driver settings, make sure the card is use application settings for FGU. The other is to use vsync and image quality settings.
Sure. As I said, it is a Lenovo Thinkpad T440 with 12 GB ram, SSD.
I run Debian buster.

Here is my cpuinfo
processor : 0
vendor_id : GenuineIntel
cpu family : 6
model : 69
model name : Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4600U CPU @ 2.10GHz
stepping : 1
microcode : 0x24
cpu MHz : 898.956
cache size : 4096 KB
physical id : 0
siblings : 4
core id : 0
cpu cores : 2
apicid : 0
initial apicid : 0
fpu : yes
fpu_exception : yes
cpuid level : 13
wp : yes
flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx pdpe1gb rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc aperfmperf pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx smx est tm2 ssse3 sdbg fma cx16 xtpr pdcm pcid sse4_1 sse4_2 x2apic movbe popcnt tsc_deadline_timer aes xsave avx f16c rdrand lahf_lm abm epb invpcid_single ssbd ibrs ibpb stibp kaiser tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority ept vpid fsgsbase tsc_adjust bmi1 avx2 smep bmi2 erms invpcid xsaveopt dtherm ida arat pln pts flush_l1d
bugs : cpu_meltdown spectre_v1 spectre_v2 spec_store_bypass l1tf mds swapgs itlb_multihit
bogomips : 5387.71
clflush size : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes : 39 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management:


Repeat for 3 more cores.

For meminfo (before):
MemTotal: 11991300 kB
MemFree: 4049260 kB
MemAvailable: 10050228 kB
Buffers: 1096332 kB
Cached: 5048544 kB
SwapCached: 7800 kB
Active: 4554120 kB
Inactive: 2785896 kB
Active(anon): 1189592 kB
Inactive(anon): 261612 kB
Active(file): 3364528 kB
Inactive(file): 2524284 kB
Unevictable: 16 kB
Mlocked: 16 kB
SwapTotal: 12260348 kB
SwapFree: 12192588 kB
Dirty: 172 kB
Writeback: 0 kB
AnonPages: 1191596 kB
Mapped: 558048 kB
Shmem: 256064 kB
Slab: 488572 kB
SReclaimable: 432176 kB
SUnreclaim: 56396 kB
KernelStack: 9744 kB
PageTables: 19968 kB
NFS_Unstable: 0 kB
Bounce: 0 kB
WritebackTmp: 0 kB
CommitLimit: 18255996 kB
Committed_AS: 4975860 kB
VmallocTotal: 34359738367 kB
VmallocUsed: 0 kB
VmallocChunk: 0 kB
HardwareCorrupted: 0 kB
AnonHugePages: 0 kB
ShmemHugePages: 0 kB
ShmemPmdMapped: 0 kB
HugePages_Total: 0
HugePages_Free: 0
HugePages_Rsvd: 0
HugePages_Surp: 0
Hugepagesize: 2048 kB
DirectMap4k: 547964 kB
DirectMap2M: 11714560 kB
DirectMap1G: 1048576 kB

Meminfo (after loading campaign):
MemTotal: 11991300 kB
MemFree: 2217456 kB
MemAvailable: 8247140 kB
Buffers: 1096548 kB
Cached: 5265956 kB
SwapCached: 7800 kB
Active: 6189012 kB
Inactive: 2975896 kB
Active(anon): 2796840 kB
Inactive(anon): 450696 kB
Active(file): 3392172 kB
Inactive(file): 2525200 kB
Unevictable: 16 kB
Mlocked: 16 kB
SwapTotal: 12260348 kB
SwapFree: 12192588 kB
Dirty: 216 kB
Writeback: 0 kB
AnonPages: 2798896 kB
Mapped: 668828 kB
Shmem: 445132 kB
Slab: 489640 kB
SReclaimable: 432332 kB
SUnreclaim: 57308 kB
KernelStack: 10432 kB
PageTables: 24128 kB
NFS_Unstable: 0 kB
Bounce: 0 kB
WritebackTmp: 0 kB
CommitLimit: 18255996 kB
Committed_AS: 7099168 kB
VmallocTotal: 34359738367 kB
VmallocUsed: 0 kB
VmallocChunk: 0 kB
HardwareCorrupted: 0 kB
AnonHugePages: 0 kB
ShmemHugePages: 0 kB
ShmemPmdMapped: 0 kB
HugePages_Total: 0
HugePages_Free: 0
HugePages_Rsvd: 0
HugePages_Surp: 0
Hugepagesize: 2048 kB
DirectMap4k: 547964 kB
DirectMap2M: 11714560 kB
DirectMap1G: 1048576 kB

console.log:
[7/24/2021 10:45:09 AM] FGU: v4.1.4 ULTIMATE (2021-06-08)
[7/24/2021 10:45:09 AM] OS: Linux 4.9 Devuan GNU/Linux 3 64bit
[7/24/2021 10:45:09 AM] GRAPHICS: Mesa DRI Intel(R) Haswell Mobile : 512
[7/24/2021 10:45:09 AM] UI SCALE: 1
[7/24/2021 10:45:09 AM] USER: dimonic
[7/24/2021 10:45:09 AM] Launcher scene starting.
[7/24/2021 10:45:21 AM] Daily session backup created.
[7/24/2021 10:45:21 AM] Starting private server mode. [(192.168.0.175:1802) (fe80::ed47:f406:beec:c5aa%3:1802)]
[7/24/2021 10:45:21 AM] Game server started. [192.168.0.175:1802]
[7/24/2021 10:45:21 AM] Launcher scene exiting.
[7/24/2021 10:45:21 AM] Tabletop scene starting.
[7/24/2021 10:45:21 AM] NETWORK STATUS: [Server] [Connected]
[Server Type - LAN]
[7/24/2021 10:45:39 AM] MEASURE: RULESETS LOAD - 17.782552 - 2E
[7/24/2021 10:45:39 AM] MEASURE: EXTENSIONS LOAD - 0.00055 - 0
[7/24/2021 10:45:40 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LIST BUILD - 1.038976 - 15
[7/24/2021 10:45:40 AM] MEASURE: REFRESH IMAGE ASSETS - 0.051358
[7/24/2021 10:45:40 AM] MEASURE: REFRESH PORTRAIT ASSETS - 0.005038
[7/24/2021 10:45:40 AM] MEASURE: REFRESH TOKEN ASSETS - 0.059314
[7/24/2021 10:45:40 AM] MEASURE: ASSET LIST BUILD - 0.116661
[7/24/2021 10:45:43 AM] MEASURE: LOAD - PART 1 - 21.511674
[7/24/2021 10:45:44 AM] Creating database backup. Saved to a unique file name. (db.script.#.xml)
[7/24/2021 10:45:44 AM] Campaign database backup created.
[7/24/2021 10:45:49 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 5.095294 - AD&D 2E Players Handbook
[7/24/2021 10:45:49 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 0.228696 - FG Battle Maps
[7/24/2021 10:45:50 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 0.7452 - OSRIC Magic Items 1.0
[7/24/2021 10:45:55 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 4.618676 - OsricFor2E
[7/24/2021 10:45:55 AM] s'data_options_adnd.lua' | s'updateMenuStyle' | s'OPTIONS_MENU' | s'sidebar'
[7/24/2021 10:45:56 AM] RULESET: Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd Edition
(c) Wizards of the Coast
[7/24/2021 10:45:56 AM] RULESET: 2E v2021.06.03 For Fantasy Grounds
--by Celestian 2017-2021
[7/24/2021 10:45:56 AM] RULESET: Core RPG ruleset (v2021-07-06) for Fantasy Grounds
Copyright 2021 Smiteworks USA, LLC
[7/24/2021 10:45:57 AM] MEASURE: LOAD - PART 2 - 13.901904
[7/24/2021 10:46:01 AM] [WARNING] Frame d10red contains out-of-range values in TopLeft.
[7/24/2021 10:50:57 AM] Campaign saved.
[7/24/2021 10:55:58 AM] Campaign saved.
[7/24/2021 11:00:58 AM] Campaign saved.
[7/24/2021 11:05:58 AM] Campaign saved.


I don't see where I would load a sample campaign. I run D&D 1e, 5e campaigns, purchased players handbooks for both systems (2e and 5e + Tasha's). Same problems. Same problems with my friends running 5e too. They don't all have the time, skills or inclination necessary to post bug reports. I think you can probably assume that for every similar complaint, there will be up to 10 users that experienced the same problem who are not reporting (just using another system).

Output of top utility captured:
48376

Perhaps you can tell me how I should post the campaign info?

[damned]

one way is to type /console into chat and then press Compile Logs

[wndrngdru]

I have a T440 with 8GB of RAM, SSD, i7-3520M (2 cores) @ 2.9 GHz running Linux Mint. My CPU load rarely goes over 20% and /vsync 4 quiets the fan right down for me.
I do have the HD 4000 graphics chip, not Haswell Mobile, but I really don't know which is better.

This is mostly used as a player view on a separate screen so I don't run discord on it at the same time although it has, in the past, been used as a full-on player client with TeamSpeak running too and didn't have any issues for more than 4 hours.

[Trenloe]

Sure. As I said, it is a Lenovo Thinkpad T440 with 12 GB ram, SSD.
I run Debian buster.
Are your friend who are experiencing issues also running Linux?
Do the players experience the issues all at the same time (suggesting it's a GM issue) or do the players have issues at different times?
Have you tried using the cloud connectivity rather than a direct connection?

[dimonic]

So my two other GM friends run Windows, and one could not get anyone connected at all - and suspects windows firewall issues (although he was trying to run cloud connect). He runs perfectly fine in Classic (so I don't think it has anything to do with windows firewall). The other was running windows on an 8GB laptop, and went well for about 2 hours before audio became an issue, and needed to restart FGU and then discord before it was playable to finish the game. These two being cases in point of not reporting issues - just moving on.

In the time when I was running using FGU, one friend could not run it effectively at all as a client on his aging desktop - the FGU seemed to work, but audio on discord was unintelligable. This ruled it out for me as a GM with that group. For my other groups, I have tried it more than once, but always run into audio issues after an hour or two. At the moment, I just don't feel it is "safe" to start a game using FGU, with the feeling that it will crap out at some point during the game each time.

[LordEntrails]

Ill get more spe a and data when I get back home.. but a quick summary and test before I had an appointment told me the following;
Dell M3500
My FGU play campaign, been using since FGU went live, idles at about 3% and with the seadeeps map from DoMM open and 5 PCs with lOS and lighting idles at 7% on my external monitor. This campaign is 5E, has most or all of the DM.resources loaded (PHB, DMG, XGtE, MToF, etc) as well as at least DoMM loaded at the moment, plus some custom modules and about a dozen extensions.

I would find 30% CPU well within acceptable expectations. For work I normally peak workstations and servers above 80% all the time. Anything below 80% should have negligible performance scaling.

As said by others, if your fan is on that might be ok, if it's hot, check your cooling. Laptops used on the lap often get the venting clogged by fabric fluff etc.

[dimonic]

I haven't seen any GPU settings that I can try. No-one seems to post suggestions that apply to Linux. I have tried /vsync 4 and it does help somewhat. However, I see static load of around 100% with no players logged in and just a map sitting there with no interaction. I don't know what it is doing, but (in my view) it isn't doing anything that I would expect to see 100% CPU use for.

I can't very well put in a cheap GPU - there aren't any for laptops as far as I know. I don't really want to go into my office and use my desktop for after dinner gaming. I don't think it's too much to expect that software for a TTRPG should run on a decent laptop. If you are expecting a desktop rig, you are running full tilt in the opposite direction to the market, which in case you haven't noticed, is increasingly mobile and lightweight.

Perhaps it doesn't "require" a gaming rig - but I bet the developers all work on powerful rigs with GPUs. Perhaps they should set one of them up with an integrated GPU system like mine for a couple of weeks. I normally use mine for compiles of cross-platform software (gcc-linux-armhf-gnueabi) and it's fine for that. Any developer worth their salt would fix the problem if they had to live with it until it was fixed.

[dimonic]

If mine ran like that you wouldn't hear a word of complaint from me. Mine uses 110% standing still.

[arcanjl]

I do so much DMing, that if it ran better on Linux or Mac (like use multithreading) I would buy that machine for FG. The constant (but not predictable) pausing, stuttering, load time delays (not to mention loading the game!) drives me insane. Players always asking "Did I roll?" then I answer, "just give it a min, I am opening up a token."
The problem is I am so in love with this software and financially committed, I just deal. I was told to lessen the extensions and modules. Sorry, I am an addict - not going to happen. :)

[LordEntrails]

We understand your frustration.


I haven't seen any GPU settings that I can try. No-one seems to post suggestions that apply to Linux. I have tried /vsync 4 and it does help somewhat. However, I see static load of around 100% with no players logged in and just a map sitting there with no interaction. I don't know what it is doing, but (in my view) it isn't doing anything that I would expect to see 100% CPU use for.
This is indicative of a problem with your graphics driver. Some graphics drivers will do exactly this, try to cause the Unity engine to redraw the screen as often as it possibly can so that you get the best screen refresh rates possible. This is in part why the vsync command was created. But, still some graphic drivers override application settings.


I can't very well put in a cheap GPU - there aren't any for laptops as far as I know. I don't really want to go into my office and use my desktop for after dinner gaming. I don't think it's too much to expect that software for a TTRPG should run on a decent laptop. If you are expecting a desktop rig, you are running full tilt in the opposite direction to the market, which in case you haven't noticed, is increasingly mobile and lightweight.
No they are not expecting users to have a desktop rig. As has been stated repeatedly by myself and others. Plus if you check the hardware requirements they are not all that much either. I've seen reports of people using Surface Pro and other near tablet like devices as well, so again, hardware can be very lightwieght. It's just something about yours is not running as it should.

Not that it matters much, since a GPU is not required, but some laptops do have them. Mine for example has an NVIDIA built for laptops.


Perhaps it doesn't "require" a gaming rig - but I bet the developers all work on powerful rigs with GPUs. Perhaps they should set one of them up with an integrated GPU system like mine for a couple of weeks. I normally use mine for compiles of cross-platform software (gcc-linux-armhf-gnueabi) and it's fine for that. Any developer worth their salt would fix the problem if they had to live with it until it was fixed.
I know the developers also test on old workstations and laptops as well. They have stated so in other threads when trying to reproduce issues. They have been in the VTT business longer than most any other VTT, much of the time with the same developers and I believe they have kept their old hardware exactly for this purpose.

Again, we understand why you are frustrated, but the problem you are experiencing is not common or easily reproducible and is something with your setup. It shows all the signs of an issue with your graphics driver, but we don't have a clone of your environment so nobody on the forums can tell you what settings might be available in your driver to assist. Usually they are called things like "let application decide settings" or "application specific performance".

Also, in case you we not aware, it is just with FGU (released last year) that the developers have been supporting a cross-platform application. So cross platform issues are not something the community has years of experience with. You may find folks in this thread more familiar with Linux issues; https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?61261-Linux-Testing

[arcanjl]

Not to mention, online playing skyrocketed last year.

[dimonic]

We understand your frustration.


This is indicative of a problem with your graphics driver. Some graphics drivers will do exactly this, try to cause the Unity engine to redraw the screen as often as it possibly can so that you get the best screen refresh rates possible. This is in part why the vsync command was created. But, still some graphic drivers override application settings.


No they are not expecting users to have a desktop rig. As has been stated repeatedly by myself and others. Plus if you check the hardware requirements they are not all that much either. I've seen reports of people using Surface Pro and other near tablet like devices as well, so again, hardware can be very lightwieght. It's just something about yours is not running as it should.

Not that it matters much, since a GPU is not required, but some laptops do have them. Mine for example has an NVIDIA built for laptops.


I know the developers also test on old workstations and laptops as well. They have stated so in other threads when trying to reproduce issues. They have been in the VTT business longer than most any other VTT, much of the time with the same developers and I believe they have kept their old hardware exactly for this purpose.

Again, we understand why you are frustrated, but the problem you are experiencing is not common or easily reproducible and is something with your setup. It shows all the signs of an issue with your graphics driver, but we don't have a clone of your environment so nobody on the forums can tell you what settings might be available in your driver to assist. Usually they are called things like "let application decide settings" or "application specific performance".

Also, in case you we not aware, it is just with FGU (released last year) that the developers have been supporting a cross-platform application. So cross platform issues are not something the community has years of experience with. You may find folks in this thread more familiar with Linux issues; https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?61261-Linux-Testing

All of this is good to know, and contradicts some of the responses I have received in the past (statements that gave the distinct impression that FG is a premium application with a lot of gamer customers and so I should expect to need premium hardware to run it).

I have tried installing the latest DRI drivers in the version of Linux I am using, and I will experiment in that direction.

[LordEntrails]

All of this is good to know, and contradicts some of the responses I have received in the past (statements that gave the distinct impression that FG is a premium application with a lot of gamer customers and so I should expect to need premium hardware to run it).
Some folks on the forums here are very enthusiastic about FG and their computers :) And the see the "best" way to solve a performance issue it to increase hardware capabilities. But there is significant evidence on the forums here that often times newer hardware runs FGU slower than older hardware. My opinion is it's usually because of a) driver issues, or b) expectations (i.e. why can't I run FGU on multiple 4K displays with a 90 FPS refresh and millisecond response times, my hardware can do that for game x, y, z...)

Hopefully the new drivers will get you to where you need. If not, the Linux thread might get you folks with more Linux knowledge who can point you in the right direction.

[dimonic]

Some folks on the forums here are very enthusiastic about FG and their computers :) And the see the "best" way to solve a performance issue it to increase hardware capabilities. But there is significant evidence on the forums here that often times newer hardware runs FGU slower than older hardware. My opinion is it's usually because of a) driver issues, or b) expectations (i.e. why can't I run FGU on multiple 4K displays with a 90 FPS refresh and millisecond response times, my hardware can do that for game x, y, z...)

Hopefully the new drivers will get you to where you need. If not, the Linux thread might get you folks with more Linux knowledge who can point you in the right direction.

Well I have good news to report. I did (first) try upgrading just my graphics drivers - which were not readily available for my current Linux version. I tried compiling from source - but the requirements of the newer drivers basically required the newer OS to be installed (chicken and egg problem). So I took a deep breath and put in the new urls for the "testing" version of devuan that I use (debian like distros come in "stable", "testing" and "experimental"). Testing is named "Chimaera" for devuan. Anyhow, the upgrade went smoothly, and I just launched FGU. Initially utilisation was unchanged. However, /vsync 4 now does something! Utilisation drops right down to 15-30% and other programs remain usable.

[Moon Wizard]

It sounds like the old graphics driver or OS was not respecting VSync.

Regards,
JPG

[dimonic]

It sounds like the old graphics driver or OS was not respecting VSync.

Regards,
JPG

Yes, that's exactly what it sounds like. Maybe soon I will get this (https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=intel-haswell-crocus&num=1) and things will be even better?