An Effect for Loosing the Dex Bonus

[dellanx]

I know there is "flatfooted", but just loosing the dexterity bonus may or not equal to "flatfooted" if the PC or NPC has a dodge or a deflection bonus. Is there an effect just for loosing the dexterity bonus and what is the syntax?


Creatures flailing about in the water (usually because they failed their Swim checks) have a hard time fighting effectively. An off-balance creature loses its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, and opponents gain a +2 bonus on attacks against it.

[Kelrugem]

I know there is "flatfooted", but just loosing the dexterity bonus may or not equal to "flatfooted" if the PC or NPC has a dodge or a deflection bonus. Is there an effect just for loosing the dexterity bonus and what is the syntax?

Hm, not that I am aware of, but what is the problem with deflection? This AC bonus should always stay, I think, and FG also keeps deflection when you're flatfooted, so there should be no problem :)

About dodge bonusses: Oki, I see the problem here. I normally always treat dodge bonusses like the dex modifier, so, when you loose the dex mod then also dodge bonusses and vice versa (though I do not know of anything just explicitly saying "You loose your dodge bonusses") :) Is there any clarification in the rules about this?

[Kelrugem]

Just found that in the 3.5e rules:

A dodge bonus improves Armor Class (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#armorClass) (and sometimes Reflex saves (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#reflex)) resulting from physical skill at avoiding blows and other ill effects. Dodge bonuses are never granted by spells or magic items. Any situation or effect (except wearing armor) that negates a character's Dexterity bonus also negates any dodge bonuses the character may have. Dodge bonuses stack with all other bonuses to AC, even other dodge bonuses. Dodge bonuses apply against touch attacks (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#touchAttacks).
So, when you loose dex, you loose the dodge bonus :) Thence, overall I'd say you can use the flat-footed effect (or CA and GRANTCA) without problems :)

[dellanx]

Just found that in the 3.5e rules:

So, when you loose dex, you loose the dodge bonus :) Thence, overall I'd say you can use the flat-footed effect (or CA and GRANTCA) without problems :)

Thank you!

With your extensions, is it flatfooted or flat-footed?

[dellanx]

This is just cool (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzhAhRZzCrA&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2Y6iqJ4gFBVgwF-LiaXf1uJLyIAXsRHD2tmJiu45C1hkbaz-FYlCIYwI0). Any idea what armor this would be in Pathfinder?

[Asgurgolas]

This is just cool (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzhAhRZzCrA&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2Y6iqJ4gFBVgwF-LiaXf1uJLyIAXsRHD2tmJiu45C1hkbaz-FYlCIYwI0). Any idea what armor this would be in Pathfinder?

I'd say studded leather. Brigandine armor was heavy cloth, canvas or leather lined with small oblong steel plates riveted to the fabric (which makes me think "studded leather")

[dellanx]

i'd say studded leather. Brigandine armor was heavy cloth, canvas or leather lined with small oblong steel plates riveted to the fabric (which makes me think "studded leather")

It has the flexibility of leather but protection of half-plate, I would say, accept:

Half-plate armor combines elements of full plate and chainmail, incorporating several sizable plates of sculpted metal with an underlying mesh of chain links.
While this suit protects vital areas with several layers of armor, it is not sculpted to a single individual’s frame, reducing its wearer’s mobility even more than a suit of full plate. Half-plate armor includes gauntlets and a helm.

Pathfinder and RPG got that part wrong, from the video it clearly molds due to the segmented nature of the armor.

So half-plate without the movement restrictions.

[Asgurgolas]

Well it's still a non-metallic armor studded with some riveted metal plates. Seems wrong to me to compare it to a half-plate (which is mostly rigid metal protections) and I'd either still compare it to studded leather, or at most to a Kikko (the hexagon japanese armor).

Checking the pfsrd armor list, "armored coat" pretty much defines it though as: "This sturdy leather coat is reinforced with metal plates sewn into the lining."

[dellanx]

Well it's still a non-metallic armor studded with some riveted metal plates. Seems wrong to me to compare it to a half-plate (which is mostly rigid metal protections) and I'd either still compare it to studded leather, or at most to a Kikko (the hexagon japanese armor).

Checking the pfsrd armor list, "armored coat" pretty much defines it though as: "This sturdy leather coat is reinforced with metal plates sewn into the lining."

That is what the video said would happen,one of those armors that got overlooked in RPG i guess.

[Asgurgolas]

Back in AD&D (2e), the brigandine had these stats: AC 6, 120 gp, 35 lbs.

If we were to convert it in 3.5/pf it'd need a bit of tweak, since converting "as is" would result into something nobody would wear.

I mean, by translating stats directly, you'd have , AC +4 120 gp 35 lbs. (which makes it same protection, heavier, and more expensive than a chain shirt). Not sure about max dex, but there. Maybe similar to a scale mail, make it maybe a bit cheaper, class it as medium armor and it's set.

Also, somebody did this for 5e https://sefotron.blogspot.com/2015/09/brigandine-armour-medium-armour_7.html

[dellanx]

Back in AD&D (2e), the brigandine had these stats: AC 6, 120 gp, 35 lbs.

If we were to convert it in 3.5/pf it'd need a bit of tweak, since converting "as is" would result into something nobody would wear.

I mean, by translating stats directly, you'd have , AC +4 120 gp 35 lbs. (which makes it same protection, heavier, and more expensive than a chain shirt). Not sure about max dex, but there. Maybe similar to a scale mail, make it maybe a bit cheaper, class it as medium armor and it's set.

Also, somebody did this for 5e https://sefotron.blogspot.com/2015/09/brigandine-armour-medium-armour_7.html

This is interesting. Starfinder did it right (https://www.aonsrd.com/ArmorDisplay.aspx?ItemName=I&Family=Vesk%20Brigandine). Like the presenter said there may have been different types of metals used. I don't know if I would call it light armor if it was made from metal though.

I think Pathfinder botched Brigandine up no mention of meta plates at all. Clearly no one researched armor.

Pathfinder definition (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/richard-s-lab__trashed/gear/variant-gear-armor/).

No real plans to use it in my game either but if I did, I would have to home-brew it.

[dellanx]

Perhaps:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/armor/lamellar-steel/?fbclid=IwAR07yryF6ouPdiEk5u3gOcefdmv_KlwcYQP4ATpf 5qFPHJ2qXDXFnlIbd20

[bmos]

I think Pathfinder botched Brigandine up no mention of meta plates at all. Clearly no one researched armor.

Pathfinder definition (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/richard-s-lab__trashed/gear/variant-gear-armor/).

No real plans to use it in my game either but if I did, I would have to home-brew it.The link there is actually to someone's homebrew (the URL contains "community-creations") :)
There is no official Brigandine in Pathfinder 1e, although you could probably approximate somewhere between a padded tunic, armored coat, and lamellar armor?