Brainstorming about online conventions

[ddavison]

Hey FG fans,

With in-person conventions getting cancelled this year, events are moving more online. We reached out to a few conventions this year to offer assistance in running, but we've had pretty poor results. You can find some games running now at San-Diego Comic Con and you might get lucky and find some Fantasy Grounds events running at Gen Con Online. When we look at Gen Con Online events, however, we see that it is extremely dominated by Roll20 games.


You can sign-up for San-Diego Comic Con Games here:
https://warhorn.net/events/san-diego-comic-con-2020/schedule/agenda*

For Gen Con, you can submit an event here:
Submit a New Event
https://www.gencon.com/event_registrations/new

If you do post the event, please be sure to put Fantasy Grounds or Fantasy Grounds Unity somewhere in the description or the title so that it can be found in a search.

[Myrdin Potter]

The default has been Roll20. Mostly they use the free version and do little more than display a map and move tokens.

I not only ran games at GaryCon (all full), I also converted the AL modules. I posted here and at the GaryCon site and I think I got one more DM that used them, but most sessions were Roll20.

I think you guys need to take a hard look at this because more and more new players are using Roll20 because it is "free" and anyone can step up and run games without an investment. You finally have the AL modules season 9 converted, maybe organize many AL tables as that tends to dominate the larger cons.

[Granamere]

I have never been to gencon but I did decide to DM 2 FGC games there for them. AAW games is sponsoring several FGC and FGU games there this year. Just search on AAW in the GENCON schedule and you will find them.

Here is the link I found awhile back to sign up. Not sure if they are looking for anymore DMs or not at this point.
https://adventureaweek.com/gen-con-2020-dnd/?doing_wp_cron=1594831979.7204530239105224609375&utm_source=Fantasy+Grounds+Newsletter&utm_campaign=4ee941caa5-Weekly_Newsletter_20180110_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_0c0bac83de-4ee941caa5-168772145

[LordEntrails]

I agree, this is something to look at hard. I can cite other examples of companies winning/losing long term market share based upon 'barrier of entry' and new user exposure, but I think you probably already know that :)

A couple of things to consider;

- Ultimate license upgrades for GMs like you do for FG Con. Might see if this would encourage more folks to run games. If this could be automated by user when requested instead of upgrading all licenses...?
- Talk with Laerun and see if FGC might help. I could see a few class/seminars on things like How to run a game at Gen Con, How to register to run at a game at SDCC... (I can help you and/or Laerun facilitate this.)
- Utilize FG Friday's stream, perhaps go over the above ideas, mention upcoming cons, give shout outs to folks running FG games at the cons
- I think this is a good start, but higher 'official' visibility of these type of things by you and your team would help encourage.
- Product giveaways... mixed feelings on this. Things like a 'raffle' for something for those who GM games at a con. They are encouraging for me personally, though I don't actually care if I win or not, and probably such a thing would add little value to me since I generally a able to buy what I want/will use. And not sure it actually encourages additional GMs or not.
- You (new) rotating splash banners at the top of the forums, you could put up one or more of those with a link to a How to register and run for GenCon etc.

I guess in short if you make it know that it's important to FG that this gets done in a way that the community believes you, they will step up and start doing it. I think it just takes that little push and support.

[stephan_]

Note that it may not be up to the GM to edit the description or title freely - for Paizo games at GenCon it's e.g. only listed under location (which cannot be easily found) and the GMs can't edit it.

[viviolay]

Hello, I'm one of the members working HQ for DnD at San Diego Comic Con where we are using Fantasy Grounds. Thanks for your support in getting us setup.
I also am the lead organizer for a different 2x a month online gaming event where we host about 20-30 tables. (all the dms elect to use roll20)

Is this thread asking what can be done to make FG more accessible/well-received at online events?
I have a lot of thoughts based on my experienced at SDCC and as a general organizer, and I wrote them out to share in a doc - but I want to be clear that's what's being asked?

I like the FG software and worked really hard to make sure we were ready to go at the event this year - I trained DMs (vast majority never used FG) for the event over the last month and a half and converted 2 of the modules from PDF for them to use. But I do agree - it very under utilized comparatively in the online event sphere- which makes me sad.

[stephan_]

For Paizo Organized Play games at cons there's also two additional factors:

1. There are user-made tables available for 95 % of PFS2/SFS scenarios on roll20. As Myrdin Potter mentioned, these user-made tables on roll20 often have little to no automation but at first glance it looks better than the number of PFS2/SFS scenarios available on FG.

2. The online VOs stated that you need to have the Paizo pdf to run it (even if you purchased the module on the VTT), which usually doubles the cost.

Anecdotally, most new FG users don't expect any kind of automation and try to fill in the character sheets manually (typing in classes, ...).

Edit: Most HQ folk are also only familiar with roll20.

[OverCriticalHit]

Anecdotally, most new FG users don't expect any kind of automation and try to fill in the character sheets manually (typing in classes, ...).


Automation is the absolute killer feature of FG. Trouble is, you don't know how much you want and need it until you try it. Even this very persuasive video from Matt Colville https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFj48x0c4EM doesn't completely substitute for just getting your hands dirty with it. But notwithstanding that, imo the more FG marketing material based around the automation the better, and highlighting that it's not just about prep, but also the in-session automation that makes it a cut above.

[JohnD]

Doug, perhaps this is where Smiteworks steps forward with some backing.

What about a series of "on demand" GM positions where you target specific on-line Cons ahead of time and tap a few people on your list of Approved GMs to run a game as a contract quasi-Smiteworks representative (perhaps this is 'problematic').

Perhaps compensation is store credit or some honorarium via PayPal at the same time as the quarterly DLC payments.

Smiteworks would approach the Con organizers about getting official FG games into the lineup and essentially provide a "veteran FG GM" who will more than likely make the session run as smoothly as possible (i.e. make a good first impression for the software with new users).

Smiteworks could either mandate the adventure(s) to be played, or leave it up to the GM. Obviously 5e and PF2 would be the big market grabbers, but there's also an opportunity here for you to partner with the other IPs (i.e. TLG, ICE, etc...) to have dual sponsored games running to increase visibility of not only FG but of C&C or Rolemaster for example. Maybe in these instances, the IP holder throws something in as well - say a free PDF of the adventure from their online store or a gift code for a $10 credit.

All this said, the average person out there is happy with "it's free" - look at the proliferation of various pirate "archive" PDF sites. FG as a premium service (essentially) offering is always coming up against people who will always choose the free option and never give it a first thought nevermind a second thought. Ihave personally always believed in paying for a good product, but the average person is living paycheque to paycheque and these days perhaps not even that, so "free" will win out most of the time in these situations (we have all heard the rationalizations ad infinitum... no need to repeat them).

People who use roll20 just to display a map and do basic die rolls are just looking for the bare minimum - they are not the people who will invest their time, let alone their money into a paid program with unrivaled functionality of which they are not going to use 99% of it. The players in these cases aren't even getting a good roll20 experience - their getting the bare bones and playing a game for a few hours.

[Myrdin Potter]

For 5e, cons want people to run the current season’s adventures and the newest CCC adventures made just for the con.

Players just want to play and Roll20 does not require that they install any software in advance.

Season 9 is well covered by FG now, but the CCC will take work.

Players do not want to transfer characters from one VTT system to another and Roll20 lets you use your character in D&D Beyond to play.

If you want to use the automation in FG, then you need them to either have their character ready in advance, or have extra time for people to enter them. That means the DM should OWB the player facing books in Fantasy Grounds.

I have actually run games in online cons, including virtual Gary Con this year.

For the casual, one off player that just wants a map and token and voice, Roll20 is simply better because it is browser based.

For more specialized game tracks, Fantasy Grounds works fine. I run Rappan Athuk mouth of doom often but I use pregenerated characters and it is 1st level and a one shot.

If smiteworks wants to be serious about supporting cons, they need to team with D&D Beyond so that the XML file can be generated from their system. That would solve 1/2 the problems.

Or DMs need to just use generic characters and tokens and play at CoreRPG level of automation for the con. Manual rolls and play like you were at a table and just use the online dice and fog of war.

[Granamere]

I will say when I signed on to run 2 games at Gencon AAW offered to provide me with pregen characters. I decided that I could take care of that myself and spent a morning making 1 character of each class. I then decided to see what DMsguild have for premade and bought a pack that was offered there that had a bunch of 1-3 level characters. I figure between the two I should be covered. Plus I am not sure how many people that will be playing want to make there own character.

I see the biggest challenge is running content for someone else is how much control do I have over what I am running as a DM. In my weekly run game I get full control. If I am running an event with someone sponsoring me well then I need to know what their expectations are. Anyway it goes as a DM I need to provide a fun experience for the players. The more content you want me to run the longer I need before the event with the content. You almost even needs DMs to try out before hand to see how they do and how the react to random players.

When it comes to compensation that is an interesting question. For gencon AAW is charging the minimum they can of $2 per person a game. From current understanding Gencon makes all of that. AAW Games are providing me with the modules to run which is cool since I get more Fantasy Ground stuff for my players.

Here are the 2 events I am running if anyone is interested.

https://www.gencon.com/events/189906
https://www.gencon.com/events/189907

[Myrdin Potter]

Anyone using FG to support a convention is welcome to use the pregenerated characters I made for free:

https://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?author=Michael%20Potter&affiliate_id=229540

[jwert02]

I've been running some games at the earlier online conventions this year (PaizoCon, Origins) along with regular games 2x week. I've had a fair number of new to FG users and all have come away very pleased with the system and I'll hazard that it was roughly equal with experienced FG players and new to FG players at the table. I think the barrier to folks signing up for these games is willing GM's to use the system as I don't necessarily think its lack of players willing to try something new. I couldn't GM Gencon this year, but was also disturbed at the lack of FG slots. I just think the active GM's out there for Paizo and AL that are comfortable making their own modules from the pdf are limited or are limited in their time. Having availability of scenarios to purchase and run (or download in Roll20) affects folks willingness to GM them, especially in a packed con with time slots one after another. I picked scenarios specifically I could purchase for FG and limited it to making one module from scratch per con. I'm not saying it's difficult to make a module, but certainly easier to prep if you're running 4+ tables.

I understand the efforts involved to get modules ready for sale and appreciate those efforts, but I think JohnD is correct that staying current and using our hobby time in Con representation may take incentives. I'm not making or breaking my choices around that, but the $10 gift certificate from Paizo for a table at a major con certainly helps me feel good about the time spent and get the next item to run or play. Whether that incentive goes to those that get Scenarios out faster for folks' use, or simply for using FG at a con I'll let smarter folks weigh out.

[stephan_]

SW might also want to participate in the Paizo Online Integration Task Force (https://www.organizedplayfoundation.org/paizo/volunteer-coordinator-page/task-forces/) [Collect and create tools to facilitate online play and conventions; determine best practices for online events.] Note that applications are online open until September 15th.