can we get some GPU optimisation?

[ThingsCouldGetDicey]

hey i just want to let the devs know that there could be a better gpu optimisation im currently running a gtx 980 evga overclocked edition and its using 30 to 40% of my gpu memory as you can see here. i have a 4gb card. 37735 these are my base computer stats too 37736

is this on the docket?

[Moon Wizard]

We are working on performance improvements every week. One of the reasons why we haven't launched yet is because we're not happy with where the performance is at yet.

If you have performance issues in particular reproduce-able scenarios (certain images, etc.); then we are very interested in getting the campaign folder and steps to recreate. We just received a report and complete set of files and specifics yesterday that has clearly pointed out an issue with FoW getting too large that we are looking at now.

Regards,
JPG

[ThingsCouldGetDicey]

We are working on performance improvements every week. One of the reasons why we haven't launched yet is because we're not happy with where the performance is at yet.

If you have performance issues in particular reproduce-able scenarios (certain images, etc.); then we are very interested in getting the campaign folder and steps to recreate. We just received a report and complete set of files and specifics yesterday that has clearly pointed out an issue with FoW getting too large that we are looking at now.

Regards,
JPG

yeh this report is based on just having the program open. 2 gb of ram and 30 to 40% usage of a gpu. i can do it but i hope this gets addressed.

[Zacchaeus]

yeh this report is based on just having the program open. 2 gb of ram and 30 to 40% usage of a gpu. i can do it but i hope this gets addressed.

This is why the devs need more than just a one line report. With just Unity open mine is using less than 300Mb of RAM and GPU is at 20%. So what you are seeing isn't universal; it could be specific to just you or just your graphics card or it could be something on your computer, a setting, the way you've set it up. A hundred other things.

[readymeal]

Good Morning everyone,

I have to be honest this is why i am not fully sold (i still have a FGU ultimate license though).

I have just upgraded my laptop from a I7 7th gen with GTX 1050TI 16gig ram to a Ryzen 7 4000 series with GTX 1660 TI 16gig Ram (for tax purposes :))

my previous laptop (far to be obsolete TBH) was running the fans full steam all the time, burning my fingers while running the GPU at 50%

Memory management is also to be noticed.

on new laptop, the fans are runny moderately in the back ground and kicking hard from time to time. the GPU is more fluctuating from 15 to 30%
37791

The difference of power between the graphic cards explains the drop of power use but still...i tried with LOS maps vs still pictures, slight improvement but not that much.

So i loaded FGC with the same amount of modules, same map etc...just to compare At the same time FGC is running very quietly and does not use at all or barely any GPU power...
37792

Zacchaeus, I would really appreciate if you could send me your version of FGU :) Was it with FGU fully loaded?

[damned]

2E does do a lot more processing than 5E too.

[readymeal]

2E does do a lot more processing than 5E too.

funny you said that was just about to go to bed and decided to test that theory... very true regarding memory management mostly due to the fact that 2E does not have a srd.

5E does not need so much memory if only the SRD is loaded (i don t have any 5E core books to load and compare)

37793


I finally ran FGU 2E with the bare minimum modules loaded and it makes a big difference in memory usage. (the monstrous manual is a pig...so i unloaded it)

37794

the amount of loaded modules obviously affects memory usage (we have been advised to load the bare minimum of modules while playing fgu) but this does not explain why a fixed 2D image needs some much GPU power.

[damned]

GPU optimisation aside...

One of the cool features in 2E is how built out the effects etc are.
It does also cause an overhead...

[Zarkamorta]

Hi,

@Moon Wizard / @pindercarl

as pointed out before, I would be more than willing to help to pinpoint down the GPU issues.

My system (Surface Pro 7) is heavily affected by the problem and I already posted some performance measurements including from Intel Graphics Performance Analyzers which shows me exactly what GPU operation takes how many µs. This developer tool is meant for pinpointing GPU issues and performance optimization with very detailed analytics including disassembler features.

37821


See also: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?56503-FGU-using-GPU-at-almost-100/page7

I am more than willing to share the detailed „memory“ snapshots for further analysis. As I understand, you have Win 10 / Intel GPU systems running with no problems. So, I think a differential analysis comparing Intel Graphics Performance Analyzers snapshots from both systems running the same campaign incl. plugins should help much in pinpointing the problems.

As I understand there are also similar tools within the Unity SDK. If those tools would be usable on the FGU executable and the tools would be available at no cost (as I understand they are), I would also be willing to do measurements with those tools.

Just let me know, how I can help.

[Moon Wizard]

The memory snapshots are not that useful by themselves. What we need is to be able to point to specific scenarios that are high memory/performance that are reproduce-able every time that we can use as test scenarios to review. If you have specific scenarios that cause problems, please let us know.

One point I will make is that FGU will probably under-perform on integrated graphics cards in general. Due to the customizable nature of the UI and the 3D dice, there's actually a lot more going on graphically than most people expect.

Regards,
JPG

[Zarkamorta]

Well, this test scenario is just opening FGU, which already almost puts 100 % usage on the GPU (which should be according to pindercarl just 14k triangles). Opening a map and using just one FX effect maxes out the GPU.

As I understand from pindercarl, you have test systems which much less powerful GPU just running FGU fine. On the other side, there are many users with much more powerful dedicated GPU (high performance GPU, like GTX 1070) experiencing exactly the same problem as I do (see this thread or for a list of threads

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?56503-FGU-using-GPU-at-almost-100/page4



So, in my humble opinion there must be a real glitch in FGU showing especially on some/many modern systems be it with integrated GPU or dedicated GPU.

[qdwag]

I'd like to chime in that, this issue has been resolved for me (I'm on a MBP/vega graphics card). I bought back into FGU, and now with LOS turned on, GPU usage sits between 40% and 80% - the same goes for CPU usage. It's completely satisfactory to me.

This wasn't the case 3 months ago when I left FGU for FGC.

[readymeal]

The memory snapshots are not that useful by themselves. What we need is to be able to point to specific scenarios that are high memory/performance that are reproduce-able every time that we can use as test scenarios to review. If you have specific scenarios that cause problems, please let us know.

One point I will make is that FGU will probably under-perform on integrated graphics cards in general. Due to the customizable nature of the UI and the 3D dice, there's actually a lot more going on graphically than most people expect.

Regards,
JPG

I am sure there s more in FGU than FGC but rolling the dice does not change the baseline GPU use... the numbers i pulled are from a still image, no action or clicking on function etc...i opened FGU, opened a map, the CT and place a token on it. nothing else.

From a memory point of view, it is very dependant on how many modules I load. 2E requires too many of them (PHB, DMG, MM and adventure as a bare minimum). However when i run a 5E game, i only use the SRD and the adventure module, no extra mod, no extension etc...and it runs fine (beside needing so much GPU power)


Well, this test scenario is just opening FGU, which already almost puts 100 % usage on the GPU (which should be according to pindercarl just 14k triangles). Opening a map and using just one FX effect maxes out the GPU.

As I understand from pindercarl, you have test systems which much less powerful GPU just running FGU fine. On the other side, there are many users with much more powerful dedicated GPU (high performance GPU, like GTX 1070) experiencing exactly the same problem as I do (see this thread or for a list of threads

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?56503-FGU-using-GPU-at-almost-100/page4


So, in my humble opinion there must be a real glitch in FGU showing especially on some/many modern systems be it with integrated GPU or dedicated GPU.

I think looking at what Moon Wizard said earlier, i would expect some improvement down the road but don t hold your breath... I haven t seen any lower end machine running FGU that well. Not sure where you got that info from. I am running a GTX 1660 TI (equivalent to a RTX2060) and it s still too much GPU draw in my books.


I'd like to chime in that, this issue has been resolved for me (I'm on a MBP/vega graphics card). I bought back into FGU, and now with LOS turned on, GPU usage sits between 40% and 80% - the same goes for CPU usage. It's completely satisfactory to me.

This wasn't the case 3 months ago when I left FGU for FGC.

I am glad you have seen improvement which allowed you to get back into FGU, however i honestly don t like my laptop running these numbers for hours on...unless i am playing a 3D FPS game. If i had a tower with plenty air flow... i would not have made any notice of the current GPU draw to be honest.

[qdwag]

I haven't yet tried running a map with LOS turned off.

Maybe I should. I mean, with LOS on, I can understand that the GPU has to keep working as long as it is on. But if it's just an map without walls, and some tokens and dice rolls, I would expect FGU to run close to what FGC does.

Can a dev chime in here about this?

[readymeal]

I haven't yet tried running a map with LOS turned off.

Maybe I should. I mean, with LOS on, I can understand that the GPU has to keep working as long as it is on. But if it's just an map without walls, and some tokens and dice rolls, I would expect FGU to run close to what FGC does.

Can a dev chime in here about this?

I tried and having a simple picture (of roughly the same size as a LOS map) slightly decreases the GPU load but we are talking single digit here... LOS does not seem to be really the one using that much GPU power from my point of view. I think patience is the only thing we can do at the moment.

[Moon Wizard]

To be clear, we are still working on optimizations to improve performance right now. So, hopefully it should slowly get better as we adjust.

Also, percentage indicators are always a tough measurement to work with, since it's all relative to the hardware and other tasks running on the machine.

However, if you are running in a scenario where performance is clearly impacted, please provide the exact scenario where the performance is not good. (i.e. game system, extensions used, modules loaded, etc.) And, simpler is better; if you can recreate with a minimal scenario (brand new campaign with minimal data/extension).

Regards,
JPG

[Frodie]

We used FGU for the first time tonight on 4 pc. All clean install with win10 x64, with nothing but FG and FGU and all hard wired on a lan, and it worked ok. But there where performance issues. Tried to open edge to get to Hero Labs Online and it just stalled out. Same when I tried to open a pdf on the character sheet. We like FGU but I think we will have to switch back to FGC until FGU is out of beta.

[Zarkamorta]

Well, as posted before, my scenarios on a Surface Pro 7 are:

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?56503-FGU-using-GPU-at-almost-100/page6

“60 FPS for 5E Sample Campaign, Simple Gray, just starting the campaign, not opening any windows, not using any effects “ corresponds to “FGU 2736x1824 – native resolution (CPU 7%, 1 GHz, 3.5 GB RAM, GPU/3D 90-99%, 0.4 GB VRAM)”

32 FPS for 5E Sample Campaign, Simple Gray, Battle Map01 open and zoom to fit, not using any effects” and “25 FPS for 5E Sample Campaign, Simple Gray, Battle Map01 open and zoom to fit, just using one effect (rain)” correspond to GPU/3D 100 %.

To quote pindercarl (see link above):

I agree that this Surface Pro appears to be GPU bound, but it shouldn't be. I have a MacMini with a less powerful integrated GPU and it is not GPU bound. We also have reports of users with dedicated GPUs having similar issues. In the first example (5E Sample Campaign, Simple Gray, just starting the campaign), FGU is drawing around 14k triangles. That's it. There isn't any post-processing or anything else running.

With 14k triangles even a Surface Pro 7 (0.8 TFLOPS FB32, 1.6 TFLOPS FB 16) should be idling more or less. So I guess, there must be a glitch in FGU especially with modern integrated graphics.

By running the analytics I just tried to help to pinpoint that glitch by providing information how long the different GPU calls take at the above mentioned scenarios by creating a frame snapshot. Unfortunately, that does not seem to help.

[Moon Wizard]

We don't do anything differently for different GPUs; so we don't have much control over GPU specific behaviors. That's all part of the underlying Unity game engine framework. All we really specify is things like max frame rate, and basic GPU behaviors.

The next update will remove additional scene objects with an eye to improving performance in general; but not sure if that will impact GPU performance at all. I would guess more CPU performance, but could help also.

It may be that not all integrated graphics solutions will be able to run FGU well; but we're still poking at this as we come up with ideas.

Regards,
JPG

[Zarkamorta]

We don't do anything differently for different GPUs; so we don't have much control over GPU specific behaviors. That's all part of the underlying Unity game engine framework. All we really specify is things like max frame rate, and basic GPU behaviors.

The next update will remove additional scene objects with an eye to improving performance in general; but not sure if that will impact GPU performance at all. I would guess more CPU performance, but could help also.

It may be that not all integrated graphics solutions will be able to run FGU well; but we're still poking at this as we come up with ideas.

Regards,
JPG

I was just implying that from my viewpoint there might be some issues between the GPU specific feature set and the scripts / libraries / plugins and extensions within Unity causing the problem. Maybe some outdated library, some snippet of code causing some specific GPUs to hiccup or something else.

I understand that there is no magic switch in Unity you can flip to make it work but there is room for code optimization and some parts could be GPU specific. At least, I find it strange that just starting FGU not opening any campaign already stresses my GPU. Opening a simple campaign maxes out the GPU, though according to pindercarl this should correlate to just 14k triangles which should not cause my GPU to sweat at all. That still sounds to me like some glitch in the code maybe only certain GPUs respond to. Further, as I understand also people with a dedicated and powerful GPU are seeing similar problems. So, the problem is not specific to integrated GPU.

Anyway, you are saying that maybe not all integrated graphics solutions will be able to run FGU well. Well, I’m running Intel’s latest and most powerful integrated GPU and I would expect FGU to run on such system.

The point I would like to make is, that FGU should be able to run on standard new generation CPUs with integrated GPU, especially medium powerful laptops. At least in my RPG gaming circle the days of dedicated gaming rigs are long gone. All my players moved to laptops, those which are still gaming having a console on the side. I guess, one cannot expect to have a whole RPG gaming group with every individual player having a gaming rig at his/hers hands. Though, I might find for myself a solution to run FGU on a different system, this is not something I could expect from my players. And I don’t want to start ditching players based on their CPU/GPU performance.

My hopes are still high that one day I will be able to move my group and my games over to FGU.