[BUG][PF1e/3.5] Manual Roller not rolling crit damage

[Zygmunt Molotch]

found a weird issue

using the Manual Dice Roller

when you have target, and confirm a critical, the damage is _not_ multiplied (I imagine it should be default x 2) with damage roll from the CT


(it does when the actor has no target)

cheers

no mods/extensions

[dellanx]

found a weird issue

using the Manual Dice Roller

when you have target, and confirm a critical, the damage is _not_ multiplied (I imagine it should be default x 2) with damage roll from the CT


(it does when the actor has no target)

cheers

no mods/extensions

I have never seen a Manual Roller, how does one access it? Why would one use it? Any interesting applications?

[Zygmunt Molotch]

you just turn the option on in the settings, it allows the GM to fudge rolls ... one would counter, when would you not use it ! *shock horror face* :o

[Trenloe]

It's primarily there to allow people who play face-to-face to enter rolls made by the players. Or, even if people playing online roll real dice. It also helps a lot with testing! The ability to make it look like a dice is rolled and the GM enters a number (fudging as mentioned) was added later.

[dellanx]

Testing may be useful, thanks Trenloe!

[Zygmunt Molotch]

It's actually the most useful thing to VTT

much like GMing in real life, rolls done 'behind the screen' shouldn't be up for player view, in lieu of a good story, some rolls pass, some fail, what ever is required to get the show moving

unfortunately this bug makes that transparent, as hitting the critical does not multiply the damage, thus ruining the illusion, and well, being broken :D

[Ckorik]

It's actually the most useful thing to VTT

much like GMing in real life, rolls done 'behind the screen' shouldn't be up for player view, in lieu of a good story, some rolls pass, some fail, what ever is required to get the show moving

unfortunately this bug makes that transparent, as hitting the critical does not multiply the damage, thus ruining the illusion, and well, being broken :D

If you roll (and confirm) a crit - can't you just click the 'critical' in the modifier window and then roll damage - does that not work? I do know there is a bug where effects on a character that should apply on crit don't, but that's a pretty edge case.

[Zygmunt Molotch]

If you roll (and confirm) a crit - can't you just click the 'critical' in the modifier window and then roll damage - does that not work? I do know there is a bug where effects on a character that should apply on crit don't, but that's a pretty edge case.

actually that's close to the work around, holding shift and rolling DMG, but it still shouldn't be the way to approach it

[Phixation]

So I think I have figured out the reason. The functionality for manual dice is in Core ruleset. Criticals are a function of the 3.5e/PF rulesets. While the die is called for... it doesn't know to retain the "critical" state in between rolls. So it makes a new roll to confirm with no target and then completely forgets everything it was doing when you go to roll dice. Or at least that what it looks like to me when reading the code.

[Zygmunt Molotch]

So I think I have figured out the reason. The functionality for manual dice is in Core ruleset. Criticals are a function of the 3.5e/PF rulesets. While the die is called for... it doesn't know to retain the "critical" state in between rolls. So it makes a new roll to confirm with no target and then completely forgets everything it was doing when you go to roll dice. Or at least that what it looks like to me when reading the code.

The next question then, is there anything FG can do about it... would this need to be an extension (and just fork off a different version), or can they just retain info between rolls if it is a critical

[Kelrugem]

I want to add to that bug: The applied crit confirmation result message does not display AC effects of the target (in the case when it gets applied) :) (but they are taken into account, just a visual bug which confused me while I was testing something :D)

So, the crit confirmation needs some polish seemingly :) (or, that is by design maybe? To avoid confusion about whether effects got doubled? I think it depends a bit on how one reads this chat message; it can be confusing but might be also with the other version when I now think about it)

[bmos]

Zygmunt Molotch and I were discussing this earlier and I thought it was worth summarizing the behavior a bit:
1. Manual roll is entered (20)
2. The manual roller asks for another roll to confirm the crit (which means at some level the 3.5e rulset is integrating with it to handle critical)
3. Manual roll 2 is entered and returns a hit result (EDIT: the "returns a hit result" here is very important, this isn't an issue with un-targeted rolls)
4. The 'critical' modifier does not get enabled (it should)

[superteddy57]

I checked both FGC/FGU using the sample adventure to test with the characters already pre-made. I rolled a sword attack and inputted a 20 roll. Then confirmed the crit and then rolled damage. It showed the green crit die available to roll. The chat produced the damage with the crit damage as well. I also followed your steps as you listed above and saw no issues. Can you attempt again and report the results? If it continues, we may need to have a copy of the campaign to see it in action.

[Kelrugem]

I checked both FGC/FGU using the sample adventure to test with the characters already pre-made. I rolled a sword attack and inputted a 20 roll. Then confirmed the crit and then rolled damage. It showed the green crit die available to roll. The chat produced the damage with the crit damage as well. I also followed your steps as you listed above and saw no issues. Can you attempt again and report the results? If it continues, we may need to have a copy of the campaign to see it in action.

Did you have a target? The issue especially arises when targetting someone and then having a crit (via manual rolls). The crit confirmation won't check the AC of the target and, thus, the damage won't be a crit when applied to the target :)

When having no target, then everything's working fine with manual rolls, and you may have observed that :)

[Zygmunt Molotch]

I checked both FGC/FGU using the sample adventure to test with the characters already pre-made. I rolled a sword attack and inputted a 20 roll. Then confirmed the crit and then rolled damage. It showed the green crit die available to roll. The chat produced the damage with the crit damage as well. I also followed your steps as you listed above and saw no issues. Can you attempt again and report the results? If it continues, we may need to have a copy of the campaign to see it in action.

38802

as Kel says, you need a target

it's reproducible in all campaigns...

but, hey, tell me what you need, I'll send it! :D

explanation of attachment:

manual- 20 hit
manual- 20 confirm (you need crit confirm turned on)
and then
roll damage die: no crit on manual window

[superteddy57]

Thank you for clarifying that. You are correct, no target with my tests. I can remedy that quickly and check through the code and see where it's dropping the ball.

[superteddy57]

We believe we may have found the issue. Keep an eye out for the next update.

[Kelrugem]

cool, thanks :)

[bmos]

disregard