Damage action and effect questions

[Weissrolf]

1. DMG: seems to be applied to fixed/all damage, not just damage rolls. Our Alchemist is using a damage action that only applies INT modifier splash damage, no dice (roll) involved, but DMG: is still applied.

2. Is there a way to add a bonus type to action damage bonus (the one to the right in the following image)?

https://i.imgur.com/9GxbVYG.png

Our Goblin Alchemist added a +1 bonus to all his Fire based damage roll actions and persistent fire effects to account for his "Burn it!" feat. This is a "status" bonus according to the feat. But when the Bard casts an "Inspire Courage" status bonus on top of it they both stack, because the damage action bonus misses the "status" type.

[Trenloe]

1. DMG: seems to be applied to fixed/all damage, not just damage rolls. Our Alchemist is using a damage action that only applies INT modifier splash damage, no dice (roll) involved, but DMG: is still applied.
Are you referring to a DMG effect? If so, then it is working correctly. Effects get applied to actions. So DMG effects get applied to any damage action, even if no dice are rolled, it's still a damage action.


2. Is there a way to add a bonus type to action damage bonus (the one to the right in the following image)?
That's a generic single field addition to the damage calculation, rather than a typed bonus. The damage action has entries that consist of a dice formula plus a modifier formula to produce the dice string to be used with the action. These are the base values and so they don't consist of typed bonuses and so they don't have a bonus type. I'll change the heading to "Mod." (for modifier) to try to avoid this type of confusion.

[Weissrolf]

Thanks for the quick reply.

1. The description I found for the DMG effect say: "DMG (D) , [range], [damage type]* (T), [B]Damage rolls". This is why I assumed it would only apply to damage rolls.

So is there any way to apply damage bonus only to damage rolls? Our Bard is using "Inspire Courage" which applies its bonus to damage *rolls*, but not to fixed damage. The DMG effect applies damage to all damage actions, so we need another effect it seems?!

2. Is there a way to add typed boni to damage (actions) then? How do we keep the Goblin feat (status bonus) from stacking with "Inspire Courage" (status bonus)?

[Trenloe]

Moved this to it's own thread, so that people can discuss without derailing the ruleset thread.

[Weissrolf]

On a similar note: Can DMG effects have a bonus type (status, circumstance, weapon) so that similar boni types don't stack?

[Trenloe]

On a similar note: Can DMG effects have a bonus type (status, circumstance, weapon) so that similar boni types don't stack?
Yes. This is documented in the Wiki effects page.

[Weissrolf]

Thanks, I just saw that the SR Drag N Drop we rely on already has "status" set for Inspire Courage. So now I need to find a way to not make it stack with the Goblin feat.

Are there any plans on implementing a DMGROLL kind of modifier that only effects rolls? According to the wiki DMG should apply to damage rolls but according to practice and your description it is applied to fixed damage as well. With the current DMG bonus fixed splash damage done by our Alchemist's bombs increases, too. So a modifier that only applies to rolls would be useful.

[Trenloe]

I don’t have any plans to add a new effect like that.

[Weissrolf]

1. I will tell my players to use a negative modifier for fixed damage like Alchemist's Fire splash then. Currently the Alchemist gets up to +8 bonus damage on splash damage that he is not meant to get.

Maybe update the Wiki to clarify that DMG works on all damage, not just damage rolls!?

2. Is there a better way to make use of the Goblin "Burn it!" feat other than just adding an untyped bonus to the corresponding bombs or manually entering a modifier every time a fire type bomb/spell is used?

[Trenloe]

Maybe update the Wiki to clarify that DMG works on all damage, not just damage rolls!?
Already lined it up. I don't have direct access to the Wiki to make updates.

[Weissrolf]

There are 16 entries for "bonus to damage" in the CRB. 6 of these are "bonus to damage rolls", so more than a third. Fixed damage seems rather uncommon, though. Other than some alchemical bombs' and persistent damage I cannot think of another instance out of my head. And persistent damage is handled by effect anyway.

So maybe once you support alchemical bombs in the ruleset keep the fixed damage in mind. Until then I will tell my Alchemist player to put his "Burn it!" bonus on an effect short-cut key instead of programming it as fixed bonus.

It would still be useful if damage actions could define their bonus type as well, not just the bonus value.

[Trenloe]

It would still be useful if damage actions could define their bonus type as well, not just the bonus value.
As I mentioned in post #2 above, it's not a "bonus" as PF2 defines a bonus, it's a modifier as part of the base damage value calculation.

[Weissrolf]

Unfortunately, yes. Does not make life easier with those feats that are too specific to be made into a general effect.

[Darkrite]

I use DMGS: 1 status then make sure that only the Alchemist's fire bombs had the spell damage checked as "yes". Has been working for me anyway.