Selling FG modules on DMS GUILD: content question

[DagBateway]

Hello,

I'm sorry if this question has been already answered but I wasn't able to find it.

If I create a Fantasy Grounds module and sell it on DMS Guild, can it contain contents from other FG modules? For example, can I import creatures from the D&D FG Monster Manual module inside my module and sell it?

Or do I have to link them in my module and let the users know to purchase the modules needed in order to access that content?

Thanks

[damned]

You can include monsters from the SRD but you must include the OGL license in your product.
Otherwise you can only include links.
If you dont have rights to the product you cannot distribute it.

[DagBateway]

You can include monsters from the SRD but you must include the OGL license in your product.
Otherwise you can only include links.
If you dont have rights to the product you cannot distribute it.

Thank you!

[LordEntrails]

Damned, that's not true for the DMsGuild.

The DMsG is not restricted to the OGL like if you were to publish elsewhere on the internet. The DMsGuild Community Content Agreement includes the ability to use WotC content, including data from almost all of the WotC published books (and FG modules). It also has a restrictive statements, like everything you publish on the Guild can be used by others (including WotC) for their products, and that you only get 50% of the price everything you sell.

Unfortunately, I can't log into the site at the moment to post a copy of the current CCA, but this page is a good place to get started; https://support.dmsguild.com/hc/en-us/articles/360024677993-Getting-Started-on-Dungeon-Masters-Guild

[LordEntrails]

As support, look at this question and answer;

Can I use creatures like the beholder and mind flayer, which the OGL lists as “product identity,” in my DMs Guild title?
Yes. Product identity exclusions apply only to publishing under the OGL. Product identity has no meaning under the DMs Guild program.

https://support.dmsguild.com/hc/en-us/articles/217520927-Ownership-and-License-OGL-Questions

[DagBateway]

Damned, that's not true for the DMsGuild.

The DMsG is not restricted to the OGL like if you were to publish elsewhere on the internet. The DMsGuild Community Content Agreement includes the ability to use WotC content, including data from almost all of the WotC published books (and FG modules). It also has a restrictive statements, like everything you publish on the Guild can be used by others (including WotC) for their products, and that you only get 50% of the price everything you sell.

Unfortunately, I can't log into the site at the moment to post a copy of the current CCA, but this page is a good place to get started; https://support.dmsguild.com/hc/en-us/articles/360024677993-Getting-Started-on-Dungeon-Masters-Guild

Oh, so that means I can import the creature directly into my module. Thanks ;)

[LordEntrails]

Yes, as long as you are not only reproducing things.

So, you could not make an 'Encyclopedia of Monsters' and then go make your own module of NPCs that is just a collection of monsters from other sources.

But, if you are making an adventure, you can certainly include monsters from the MM, Volos, etc. Just like you see in an official module, you can do the same thing.

The one area you can not re-use is maps and artwork. You can not reuse maps and images from other sources.

[DagBateway]

Yes, as long as you are not only reproducing things.

So, you could not make an 'Encyclopedia of Monsters' and then go make your own module of NPCs that is just a collection of monsters from other sources.

But, if you are making an adventure, you can certainly include monsters from the MM, Volos, etc. Just like you see in an official module, you can do the same thing.

The one area you can not re-use is maps and artwork. You can not reuse maps and images from other sources.

All clear, thank you LordEntrails :)

[damned]

Damned, that's not true for the DMsGuild.

The DMsG is not restricted to the OGL like if you were to publish elsewhere on the internet. The DMsGuild Community Content Agreement includes the ability to use WotC content, including data from almost all of the WotC published books (and FG modules). It also has a restrictive statements, like everything you publish on the Guild can be used by others (including WotC) for their products, and that you only get 50% of the price everything you sell.

Unfortunately, I can't log into the site at the moment to post a copy of the current CCA, but this page is a good place to get started; https://support.dmsguild.com/hc/en-us/articles/360024677993-Getting-Started-on-Dungeon-Masters-Guild

That applies to material from the published WotC books but copying it from the Fantasy Grounds version also would require you to get similar permission from SmiteWorks.
Fantasy Grounds content is not without SmiteWorks IP.
None of the info in that link says you can copy material from other FG modules into your own.

At this stage - at least until further light is thrown on this - you cannot copy content from another FG module - other than the SRD modules - without specific permissions.

[DagBateway]

Ok, now I'm confused ��
Is there an official guide that says I can or cannot?

[damned]

Yes - its called Copyright Law.
Copyright law prevents you from copying something that you dont have permission to do so.
You do not need a statement that prohibits you from duplicating each and everything.
That already exists.
You need a statement granting permission to use material.
Without permission to copy the default is you have no permission.

[DagBateway]

Ok, thanks, I was hoping in something more explicit from DMS Guild or SmiteWorks.

In the meantime, from DMS Guild they replied to my question:


If the Fantasy Grounds module you wish to use is published on the DMs Guild, then yes, you can use the contents in your own Fantasy Grounds title.
If it is not, then no, you cannot use it.

[damned]

None of the WoTC Core Books are published on the DMsGuild. This means that you cannot include the actual monsters from any WotC source book. You can include a link to it or you can include a SRD copy or you can create your own monster.

Ofc if SmiteWorks come out with an official response on this then go with their response.

[DagBateway]

None of the WoTC Core Books are published on the DMsGuild. This means that you cannot include the actual monsters from any WotC source book. You can include a link to it or you can include a SRD copy or you can create your own monster.

Ofc if SmiteWorks come out with an official response on this then go with their response.

Yes, sounds good. Thanks!

[LordEntrails]

None of the WoTC Core Books are published on the DMsGuild. This means that you cannot include the actual monsters from any WotC source book. You can include a link to it or you can include a SRD copy or you can create your own monster.

Ofc if SmiteWorks come out with an official response on this then go with their response.
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/187210/Fantasy-Grounds-DD-Complete-Core-Monster-Pack?filters=0_0_0_0_0_0_45545_0
There is the Monster Manual (by the old name) on the DMsGuild as an FG module. Others are there as well; https://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?author=SmiteWorks%20USA%20LLC

I will say that their are numerous third party FG modules published on the Guild using the approach I detailed. BUT, that doesn't make me right and damned wrong.

I've sent an email to OBS and SmiteWorks asking for clarification on this.

[DagBateway]

Well, on this point I was thinking:

If I can use a 5E creature in my PDF module, what stops me from use it in my FG module? I can literally make a copy of it on my own without importing it from any modules and that wouldn't break SmiteWorks copyright law, and it would be acceptable for DMS Guild if I sell the module on DMS Guild.

I'll wait for a reply from OBS and SmiteWorks.

[GavinRuneblade]

Well, on this point I was thinking:

If I can use a 5E creature in my PDF module, what stops me from use it in my FG module? I can literally make a copy of it on my own without importing it from any modules and that wouldn't break SmiteWorks copyright law, and it would be acceptable for DMS Guild if I sell the module on DMS Guild.

I'll wait for a reply from OBS and SmiteWorks.

Can and should are not always the same thing. Regardless of the answer from SmiteWorks, why wouldn't you just ask the author whose content you like?

[LordEntrails]

Can and should are not always the same thing. Regardless of the answer from SmiteWorks, why wouldn't you just ask the author whose content you like?
I don't think the question is in regards to third party content (which the standard already is to have a references/sources section when possible, see DMsG FAQ), but for WotC content. It's not reasonable to expect WotC to field dozens or hundred of requests every week for someone to include WotC stuff in their DMsG products. That's why their is the CCA in the first place.

For reference, here is the content of the current CCA (note, this is the legal contract DMsG authors agree to when they publish on the Guild. It grants rights different than the OGL, which is NOT used on the Guild, and means both party are ceding some of their copyrights.)

[JohnD]

Err on the side of caution is a good approach to take. Unless you see something that specifically says you can use X, it's better not to.

[Mytherus]

When i write my own fg campaigns, though i don't sell them, i write them as if i will sell them. Im weird i know but there's also a lawyer in my family and many law enforcement lol.

I always put a "So these are the modules i used to create this" list. I then list them all out and what i use them for . On an ambitious campaign its a long list.

I also point to my original work as well. "These maps were made by me"..type of deal.

Thats how i protect myself. Even though i never sell my work. Just in case a player wants a copy of my campaign I'm covered legally.

[Nylanfs]

I wish to god that Ryan and WotC would have written the OGL Sec. 15 requirements so that you had to list the items you used, and not just the Sec. 15 from the previous books.

[BlueDrake]

I have a DMs Guild product I'm publishing that will include a handful of monsters from Volo's. As far as i can tell I can reprint these stat blocks in my work per the license on DMs Guild.

I would like to also release the adventure as a Fantasy Grounds (henceforth FG) module for sale on the DMs Guild in the future. I've been using FG for a number of years and like the program.

I have no desire to step on anyone's toes and have no intention of copying someone else's work, but the DMs Guild license does give me permission to reprint these monsters from Volos.

https://support.dmsguild.com/hc/en-us/articles/217520927-Ownership-and-License-OGL-Questions
https://support.dmsguild.com/hc/en-us/articles/221015168-Fantasy-Grounds-and-Virtual-TableTop-Content


From DMs Guild:
"When you publish material that has no setting, then publishing under the DMs Guild program allows you to use the entire D&D 5th edition rules, not just the subset found in the SRD."

"Can I use creatures like the beholder and mind flayer, which the OGL lists as “product identity,” in my DMs Guild title? Yes. Product identity exclusions apply only to publishing under the OGL. Product identity has no meaning under the DMs Guild program."

For the sake of making everyone happy, rather than type the Volo's stuff into my FG mod myself, which seems perfectly legal per DMs Guild, I will instead include links to the official Smiteworks mods so that anyone who buys my adventure will need to also own the FG modules in order to see those monsters. This seems likes an okay compromise that protects everyone, BUT I do agree with the original poster that the license on DMs Guild allows the use of these stat blocks in any DMs Guild product, including in an FG mod.

[damned]

It does. The safest way to do this would be for you to type the stats in for those monsters and that way you would not be infringing or potentially infringing on anything FG. You could if you were very keen create 2 encounters - one using the links to the official books and one using your own entered data.
Either way you can include the stats.

[LordEntrails]

I have a DMs Guild product I'm publishing that will include a handful of monsters from Volo's. As far as i can tell I can reprint these stat blocks in my work per the license on DMs Guild.
....<snip for simplcity>...
BUT I do agree with the original poster that the license on DMs Guild allows the use of these stat blocks in any DMs Guild product, including in an FG mod.
Since the original discussion here I did have a fairly lengthy discussion with SmiteWorks and OBS on this issue.

FG modules are in a somewhat different Intellectual Property situation than PDFs. Yes, the DMsG license does allow WotC IP to be reprinted (within limits). But what the DMsG license does not address but the FG license does is that their is also copyright on the FG xml itself.

edit: one other thing I do is to not include any flavor text that we usually find on the Notes tab of an NPC. You don't usually need it to run the FG version, and it indicates a willingness to defer to the official sources. imo.

My interpretation of what this means is that an FG module can include creatures et al from a WotC source, but you can not do that by copying the object our of the FG version of the module (since the xml itself is protected). Hence we have to re-enter the stat blocks ourselves for FG products.

Realistically that's not much different than a PDF, since in a Word or Publisher document you can't copy the stat block and have to enter it into your word processor/layout software yourself, we have to do the same with FG.

[BlueDrake]

I agree the flavor text should be omitted in both a PDF and in FG. The DMs Guild is pretty specific about not copying blocks of text wholesale; I took that to mean anything other than the actual stat block needed to run the monster at the table should not be reprinted.

Thank you both for the replies and clarification.

[Nylanfs]

Yep, our policy at PCGen is to include enough info to calculate the character, but not enough to not need the book. The exceptions are the SRD(s), and Paizo material since we use the Community Use Policy. It can be a fine balancing point for sure. :)

[hawkwind]

you can of course make your own version of a non SRD monster and put it into module destined for the DM's guild which no doubt will be identical to the FG version. Still confused?

[damned]

identical stats-wise - all good
identical in name or flavour text - no good

[hawkwind]

why no name as the dms guild licence allows you to reuse wotc stat blocks and names? Now i'm confused?

[damned]

You edited it after I replied. I cant recall your exact wording. For the DMsG you can use the names.
In general you could have a giant floating eye ball with tentacle stalks and multiple spell like attacks called an Eyestrosity but not one called a Beholder.

[hawkwind]

thats certainly not my understanding of how the DM's guild works. I thought it gave you permission to use WOTC's IP a quick google shows loads of products on DM's guild using Drow and beholders, here is just one example

https://www.dmsguild.com/product_info.php?products_id=244722&site=&manufacturers_id=8957&language=en

while this page explicitly gives you permission to use tthe beholder stst block or any other official 5e NPc as long as you publish via the DM's Guild

https://support.dmsguild.com/hc/en-us/articles/217520927-Ownership-and-License-OGL-Questions

[LordEntrails]

On the DMsGuild you can use all of the WotC monsters (spells, classes, etc). That is central to the CCA that is posted earlier in this thread.

What you can not do is COPY (drag and drop) one of these creatures from the FG version for export in one of your own modules. You must manually create the stat block in FG on your own.

This is because the CCA does not include permission to copy the FG XML itself, which is protected.

Yes this may seem strange, but it is what it is, and it is not really any different than if you are publishing a print or PDF product, because you can not copy via drag and drop from a printed book to your Word/Publisher/Etc file that you use to create your PDF version.

[hawkwind]

Or you can drag it in, change the token for a letter token and delete the flavour text...
What I don't understand is why you can't just have a link to the official FG module so you only open up the npc if you have already purchased the licence to use it from Smiteworks? So if you haven't purchased the official licenced version of the monster manual you can't see the stat block in your DM'S guild module?

[damned]

I really dont understand why this thread goes over and over the same points.

My exact words were "For the DMsG you can use the names."

[LordEntrails]

What I don't understand is why you can't just have a link to the official FG module so you only open up the npc if you have already purchased the licence to use it from Smiteworks? So if you haven't purchased the official licenced version of the monster manual you can't see the stat block in your DM'S guild module?
You can. The general consumer expectation is that a FG module is stand-alone and requires no other modules to use. BUT, if you don't want to do that, it's fine, just make a link like you suggest and make it clear on your product description that other products are required to fully use the module.

[zuilin]

And to be clear, for SRD monsters, can you copy the FG record into your module, as-is?

[LordEntrails]

And to be clear, for SRD monsters, can you copy the FG record into your module, as-is?
Yes.