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SilentRuin
June 23rd, 2020, 05:20
The sales for this product in DMsG may soon be deactivated per this post - will let you know when that happens and when it finds a new home. (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?64473-How-important-to-Community-is-a-SmiteWorks-store-app-to-do-Extensions&p=565817#post565817)

Generic Actions Extension (Fantasy Grounds Unity) (https://www.dmsguild.com/product/318303/Generic-Actions-Extension-ext-file-Fantasy-Grounds-Unity-5E-CoreRPG-rulesets)

This stand-alone extension for Fantasy Grounds adds basic actions as clickable buttons on player and non-player character sheets.

This extension unlocks the following functions:


Adds the generic actions found in the 5e Player’s Handbook as buttons on the character sheet.

Includes: Grapple, Break Grapple, Shove, Dash, Disengage, Dodge, Help, Hide, Ready, Search, and Use Object.

Generic actions that have checks or contesting rolls allow targeting creatures, and rolls are done automatically (completed in a similar manner to spell saving throws).

Checks and contesting rolls support the dice tower

NPC’s also gain these buttons on their character sheet —valuable for DMs or player-controlled sidekicks.


Latest updates:
V1.1 Fix - was not using stat text for ADVCHK:stat type of effects, which caused them to be ignored. Fixed. [thanks to jrowsey1 (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/member.php?101243-jrowsey1) for spotting it]

V1.2 Fix - missing intelligence stat text for ADVCHK:stat type of effects, which caused it to be ingored. Fixed. [Found by me]

V1.3 Fix - missing stat text for ADVSKILL:stat and DISSKILL:stat type of effects, which caused it to be ignored. Fixed. [Found by Kevin H in DMsG]

V1.4 Option - Added new option to ignore Grappled Effect as limiting factor to attacks (meaning you can freely attack while grappled). Default is off (same behavior as before).

V1.5 Option - changed option to ignore Grappled Effect as limiting factor to attacks to be a default of on (different behavior than before - will allow attacks while grappled).

V1.5 - Redo of zip files as FGU no longer liked how I zipped them.

V 1.6 - Replaced Dodge effects with just the word Dodge as that is a supported keyword in FGU effects already and my redefinition of it was redundant.

V 1.7 - Typo in tooltip for dodge was fixed. [found by SmackDaddy]

V 1.8 - PC and NPC code to determine skills was changed to fix bugs where NPC was not parsing skill text. Result is when a skill proficiency is set in PC/NPC it will use the proper modification value, otherwise it will use normal stats per PHB for the relevant die roll.

V 1.9 - Added init to effects for DODGE and HELP so that you can get them to actually last to next turn. Warning: If you use the reroll init every round like me you'll have to manually update the effect init value to the new initiative of the player. Still - willing to make the change even though I can't take advantage of it.

V1.10 - - FGU update required extension code to change.

V1.11 - Bug: was not supporting effects that modified raw abilities (ex. STR: 5). Fixed.

Grim Press video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s2mB-1dDGI

Long boring silent technical video showing test runs of this.

https://youtu.be/RIWtaG4Dn-8

Grim Press will be handling the sales and promotion of this extension.
If you'd like to engage with us, please feel free to join the Grim Press discord: https://discord.gg/N7MM93a

Extensions = RISK: This note is added to all the extensions I maintain. I want users to understand that extensions are code that is added to or overrides portions of code in the Fantasy Grounds Unity (FGU) application. When the underlying code in FGU changes it can break an extension. When you run with other extensions they can conflict by trying to overwrite the same parts of the FGU code. I will keep my extensions working with FGU changes, and the extensions I use (listed in my FGU signature) as I have direct control over those things. I cannot make the same promise with other extensions. If I am notified of an incompatibility I will attempt to resolve it - but if I cannot I will list what the known extension incompatibilities are. Understand before you get any extensions that it comes with RISK. Not just my extensions - any extension.

Included is original text used for describing this extension - has a lot of details but really provided for reference if needed.

LordEntrails
June 23rd, 2020, 16:59
Sure, go ahead and include a video and a cover image. All is good :)

Trenloe
June 23rd, 2020, 17:03
Very cool you've taken the step onto DMs Guild.

One question - is this purely for the 5E ruleset or will this work in CoreRPG or other CoreRPG rulesets? The functionality looks pretty much tied to D&D 5e. If that's the case I'd recommend removing the mention of CoreRPG otherwise people might think they can use this with any CoreRPG ruleset.

SilentRuin
June 23rd, 2020, 18:18
Very cool you've taken the step onto DMs Guild.

One question - is this purely for the 5E ruleset or will this work in CoreRPG or other CoreRPG rulesets? The functionality looks pretty much tied to D&D 5e. If that's the case I'd recommend removing the mention of CoreRPG otherwise people might think they can use this with any CoreRPG ruleset.

I only run with Fantasy Grounds Unity 5E/CoreRPG of which the extension references some specific messages and icons in both 5E and CoreRPG for display purposes. For sure it's tied to D&D 5E as the generic actions are all specific to that rule set and the player handbook references. As I was given permission to put more in than just the link I'm adding the video and cover page to the first post next after I reply here.

As far as the CoreRPG reference, you can't run 5E without CoreRPG. And I reference strings/icons from both rulesets - plus specific code in each. My statement is literally everything you need to run the extension...

UNITY
5E
CoreRPG

It can't live without any of them.

mattekure
June 23rd, 2020, 18:21
This looks great. Well done. I'm not sure I like the Search button automatically switching between perception/investigation. As a DM I know I prefer to tell my characters which to roll depending on how they describe their actions. also for the stealth checks, if done against a target, does it roll a contested stealth vs perception?

Trenloe
June 23rd, 2020, 18:26
I only run with Fantasy Grounds Unity 5E/CoreRPG of which the extension references some specific messages and icons in both 5E and CoreRPG for display purposes. For sure it's tied to D&D 5E as the generic actions are all specific to that rule set and the player handbook references. As I was given permission to put more in that just the link I'm adding the video and cover page to the first post next after I reply here.
In that case my recommendation stands. Your extension is only compatible with the 5E ruleset. Sure, 5E runs on top of CoreRPG, but your extension only works in 5E. My strong recommendation to you is to remove references to CoreRPG - this will not work in CoreRPG games. At the least, you'll avoid people asking "Can I run this in my CoreRPG based campaign?" , but I think you'll more than likely get lots of comments (and poor reviews) based off people trying it in CoreRPG and it not working. Removing any reference to CoreRPG is the best, and most accurate, approach.

SilentRuin
June 23rd, 2020, 18:46
This looks great. Well done. I'm not sure I like the Search button automatically switching between perception/investigation. As a DM I know I prefer to tell my characters which to roll depending on how they describe their actions. also for the stealth checks, if done against a target, does it roll a contested stealth vs perception?

I actually thought about DM's who do not take "best of" skills in any of those die rolls and figured if they wanted to do pure checks off the main page - nothing stops them. Even my players mix between the search and specific checks as they prefer.

For sure that is call for DM and nothing in this extension prevents that call.

This is more along the lines of my cover page - these are actions available for use. And my players rarely used them. Heck, I rarely used them myself. But with them front and center as part of the Actions you have available - my players use them a lot more. Especially, in curse of strahd where character wipes are a close "thing" in almost every major encounter unless you play it very smart.

But yes, some DM's may want to divide out Search or Hide or any of the other "best of" single or VS die rolls into specifics. You can. The normal main page checks. But for those who want to simply take the "best of" this is much simpler.

And I'm all about what makes my life simpler as a DM :)

Plus, the play styles of my players have actually changed since I introduced this. Help is now used. Along with Dash, disengage (pesky opportunity attacks thwarted), and all the other infrequent "out of sight, out of mind" actions. And while I've not truly used it in my NPC's yet, I will.

When it makes sense, because I now have the easy option.

Imagine the surprise when that key strong critter in a pack of intelligent critters suddenly gets Help advantage... MUAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAH.. (cough)... sorry.

Got carried away there :)

SilentRuin
June 23rd, 2020, 18:48
In that case my recommendation stands. Your extension is only compatible with the 5E ruleset. Sure, 5E runs on top of CoreRPG, but your extension only works in 5E. My strong recommendation to you is to remove references to CoreRPG - this will not work in CoreRPG games. At the least, you'll avoid people asking "Can I run this in my CoreRPG based campaign?" , but I think you'll more than likely get lots of comments (and poor reviews) based off people trying it in CoreRPG and it not working. Removing any reference to CoreRPG is the best, and most accurate, approach.

Will simply putting in a comment like I did about Unity work? I'm was a developer by trade before I retired and it really does not sit well with me not listing things my extension is REQUIRED to run with. What do you think?

I added in the extra warning to this and my page description in DMsG.



ONLY TESTED IN UNITY.



ONLY WORKS WITH D&D 5E.



RUNS WITH FANTASY GROUNDS UNITY. USES BOTH 5E AND CORERPG RULESETS.

Trenloe
June 23rd, 2020, 18:57
Will simply putting in a comment like I did about Unity work? I'm was a developer by trade before I retired and it really does not sit well with me not listing things my extension is REQUIRED to run with. What do you think?
Listing CoreRPG means nothing in terms of functionality, and it could create confusion and problems for you. It only works with the 5E ruleset, just list the 5E ruleset, don't mention CoreRPG at all. 5E will not run without CoreRPG, it's not like anyone can make a decision to run 5E without CorerPG - they' can't. Your extension is even tagged to just run in 5E - it won't appear as an option for a CoreRPG campaign. I really don't see why you want to have CoreRPG in there.

You reached out prior to posting on DMs Guild for guidance. This is simply me trying to help you to avoid issues. I've been supporting FG products on these forums for 6 years and my experience is that people see things and don't read details. So if someone sees "CoreRPG" somewhere they'll think it will run with just CoreRPG - even if you mention it doesn't elsewhere. You gain nothing by mentioning CoreRPG, other than a bunch of headaches and confusion.

SilentRuin
June 23rd, 2020, 19:17
Listing CoreRPG means nothing in terms of functionality, and it could create confusion and problems for you. It only works with the 5E ruleset, just list the 5E ruleset, don't mention CoreRPG at all. 5E will not run without CoreRPG, it's not like anyone can make a decision to run 5E without CorerPG - they' can't. Your extension is even tagged to just run in 5E - it won't appear as an option for a CoreRPG campaign. I really don't see why you want to have CoreRPG in there.

You reached out prior to posting on DMs Guild for guidance. This is simply me trying to help you to avoid issues. I've been supporting FG products on these forums for 6 years and my experience is that people see things and don't read details. So if someone sees "CoreRPG" somewhere they'll think it will run with just CoreRPG - even if you mention it doesn't elsewhere. You gain nothing by mentioning CoreRPG, other than a bunch of headaches and confusion.

I have edited it all. Except the title thread of this post - how do I edit the thread title of an existing forum post? Can I get a mod to change it to...

Generic Actions extension for Fantasy Grounds Unity 5E ruleset

Also, the title of DMsG was changed and now shows (just don't look at the link name as that is permanent).

[Figured out my forums stuff - "Go Advanced" answered the questions I've deleted in this post. Now I just need to figure out how to rename the thread.]

SilentRuin
June 23rd, 2020, 19:37
Sure, go ahead and include a video and a cover image. All is good :)

Is there a way to edit the thread title of the post?

SilentRuin
June 23rd, 2020, 19:55
also for the stealth checks, if done against a target, does it roll a contested stealth vs perception?

Sorry missed this first time I read it. No, as the video shows it will simply roll the stealth and ask the DM if it "worked". Its Hide which I figured was tricky to handle with all sorts of targets and I stayed away from anything sight/LOS related - which this would be. Simply displays die roll and message to ask DM if it "worked".

LordEntrails
June 23rd, 2020, 20:45
Is there a way to edit the thread title of the post?
No. Only moderators can and only if no one has subscribed to the thread. Fortunately, no one has and I changed the thread title for you :)

SilentRuin
June 23rd, 2020, 20:58
No. Only moderators can and only if no one has subscribed to the thread. Fortunately, no one has and I changed the thread title for you :)

Thank you much! I did send the moderators a mail - so you beat them to it :)

Trenloe
June 23rd, 2020, 21:40
Moderators can always change the title of a thread, no matter the activity on the thread.

I didn't see the follow up posts, and I changed the title to what was requested in post #10. If this isn't correct please let us know. I didn't see a mail, the only way to send a message to the moderators is to "report" a post.

SilentRuin
June 23rd, 2020, 21:45
Moderators can always change the title of a thread, no matter the activity on the thread.

I didn't see the follow up posts, and I changed the title to what was requested in post #10. If this isn't correct please let us know. I didn't see a mail, the only way to send a message to the moderators is to "report" a post.

All is good. Thanks a lot for your advice also.

ScriedRaven
June 23rd, 2020, 21:50
From testing it appears to work in FGC. Very useful extension

SilentRuin
June 23rd, 2020, 21:56
From testing it appears to work in FGC. Very useful extension

Interesting. While I'd love to broadcast it works in classic - here is the reasoning I'm going to keep to my claim of tested only in Unity. I don't own classic. I will probably not ever own classic. So if I add things in the future, or FGU changes their underlying code forcing me to change something to fix it, I can't EVER guarantee it will continue to work in classic.

But I'm happy to hear it does. You just won't ever hear me SAY it does, for the reasons I just stated.

If you use FGC, the old latin proverb applies.

Caveat emptor!

[Actually as its pay what you want that probably does not really apply to the vast majority of users :) ]

SilentRuin
June 24th, 2020, 19:24
Guess I'll start on the next thing on my todo list for what I want to help run my campaign. This one took about 80 hours, 70 hours of which was learning how to do it and debugging idiot moves on my part with print statements. And two full rewrites when I hit dead ends. Thinking I had it, only to find I had fatal flaws in my understanding of how FG client/host code works.

I'll have to see how long this next one takes, as its also new FG code territory to me. Hopefully less "stupid" on my part will cut down the effort :)

jrowsey1
June 25th, 2020, 05:34
I tested this extension with a barbarian with a rage effect that grants advantage on strength checks. The Grapple and Shove abilities did not grant advantage while the barbarian is raging.

SilentRuin
June 25th, 2020, 09:41
I tested this extension with a barbarian with a rage effect that grants advantage on strength checks. The Grapple and Shove abilities did not grant advantage while the barbarian is raging.

Excellent catch. Please let me know if the fix resolved your issue. ADVCHK:Athletics would have worked :) But was wrong so I fixed it.

DMsG has been updated.

V1.1 Fix - was not using stat text for ADVCHK:stat type of effects, which caused them to be ignored. Fixed.

Should know better than to look at my mail when I wake up in the middle of the night! I'll check on status when I wake up if you've checked it by then.

jrowsey1
June 25th, 2020, 14:46
I was able to test it and the updated extension is now correctly applying advantage on the Shove and Grapple actions while the Barbarian is raging. Thanks for the quick reply, and sorry to wake you in the middle of the night :)

4wire
June 25th, 2020, 15:12
For simplicity, I think Dodge is already a special keyword. No need to spell out the advantages.

Loko
June 25th, 2020, 15:29
Awesome! Purchased.

vaughnlannister
June 25th, 2020, 15:43
Hi great extension bought it :)! Do you have any new ideas an updates that you would like to implement for this extension?

Would be cool if you could add some other buttons for ability checks, like for Arcana or History Check, we use those a lot in my game?

SilentRuin
June 25th, 2020, 17:37
I was able to test it and the updated extension is now correctly applying advantage on the Shove and Grapple actions while the Barbarian is raging. Thanks for the quick reply, and sorry to wake you in the middle of the night :)

Found intelligence was missing in my fix so another update - testable by doing search where investigation stars are better than perception.

V1.2 Fix - missing intelligence stat text for ADVCHK:stat type of effects, which caused it to be ingored. Fixed.

SilentRuin
June 25th, 2020, 17:44
For simplicity, I think Dodge is already a special keyword. No need to spell out the advantages.

Dodge is not really available in the 5e Effects window. You'd have to key it in yourself. My buttons are designed to do that for you. And I prefer the readability of seeing what it actually does. For sure I see the code in one place doing a check for the word "Dodge" and applying bADV = true and another doing the check and applying bDIS = true.

This will not hurt my logic at all. And it still puts it out there for you which only a raw keyin does right now. If you know the secret code. I did not. I suppose it was lucky I picked the same keyword exactly :) Either way - don't see the harm in keeping it readable.

This is from a purely Unity 5E perspective.

SilentRuin
June 25th, 2020, 17:49
Hi great extension bought it :)! Do you have any new ideas an updates that you would like to implement for this extension?

Would be cool if you could add some other buttons for ability checks, like for Arcana or History Check, we use those a lot in my game?

I do but I'm designing extensions for use in my campaign the way I like them first. I have two others on my list todo first - of which one I'm deep in the coding now. I switched gears for these fixes because "needs must" but not planning on doing other updates to this until I'm done with my "needs" :)

My guys use those checks too - but they are not really an either or for me and I have them do the checks straight out of the skills page for those (clicking the die roll indicator by the skill on the character sheet).

I'm also in the early days of my first campaign (4 sessions done - once a week), and as its my first time in FGU I may find other "needs" as we go along.

4wire
July 1st, 2020, 04:14
We played with your extension today and had to disable the attack and cast check. Is there a reason why grappled and restrained prevent attacking and casting? It shouldn't from RAW but we may have been misinterpreting them...

SilentRuin
July 1st, 2020, 05:03
We played with your extension today and had to disable the attack and cast check. Is there a reason why grappled and restrained prevent attacking and casting? It shouldn't from RAW but we may have been misinterpreting them...

I used all those disable features because I have no idea what other extensions they might interfere with. The only things all those features do in Options is let attack not allow firing when out of ammo, and to not let any form of attack in a state the character is paralyzed/stunned/unconscious/Incapacitated/Grappled/Petrified.

For sure grappled is interpreted by my group as the following:

1) You are not able to use any weapon till you break out of the grapple. Physically you can't.
2) You are not able to cast any spell because all spells require concentration and usually hand movements and components to boot. You will not have concentration while someone is physically restraining you from using a weapon or your mind (concentration) in active grapple (wrestled to get into that position and maintain it). It's the nature of grappled that we assume they know the danger of letting you do anything dangerous to them.

If you play different then you can just turn off the options. I'm pretty strict on that stuff - and do not assume the person grappling you is not "disturbing your concentration".

But the choice is yours. Hence, you can turn it off if you don't want that dynamic. You can also turn it off for things the DM feels are exceptions and turn it back on immediately after. My campaigns absolutely do want it.

[Edited to remove comments about restrained as that is not one of my limits]

SilentRuin
July 1st, 2020, 05:08
- removed as I remembered it does not count restrained as one of the limits for those attacks/casts -

4wire
July 6th, 2020, 13:26
- removed as I remembered it does not count restrained as one of the limits for those attacks/casts -

Hum. Strange. Maybe both messages were coming from Grappled then.

One modest proposal: Instead of multiple switches for each option, maybe it would be simpler to have just a single switch for RAW 5e versus your house rule of the grappled condition? That way we could use your extension fully.

SilentRuin
July 6th, 2020, 15:18
Hum. Strange. Maybe both messages were coming from Grappled then.

One modest proposal: Instead of multiple switches for each option, maybe it would be simpler to have just a single switch for RAW 5e versus your house rule of the grappled condition? That way we could use your extension fully.

Ok we are evidently both talking about different things. Let me try and clarify...

Grappled is not Restrained. These are not "my" house rules.

Restrained is not something I limit you over in my extension. If you have a Restrained effect - my extension will not care. The game will take care of this. If you have Restrained in your effects - its really this...

Restrained; GRANTADVATK, DISATK, DISSAV: dexterity

Restrained also puts your movement to 0. It is to much of a grey area to manage for my code so I don't use it as a limit at all - that is up to the DM.

Restrained can be applied by


Spells. A number of spells impose the restrained condition.

Net. The net is a special ranged weapon that can be a used to restrain a creature.

Magic Items. There are some magic items that allow you to restrain a creature.


I believe even a feat (with a grappler?) can allow grapple to turn into Restrained.

But Restrained IS NOT Grappled. I only support limits if you are Grappled.

A successful Grapple means you just physically gained control of a PC/NPC with your strength. You can move them around at half speed, and they DO NOT attack anything until they BREAK out of the grapple. That includes spells, as you are under physical control of the "grappler" and not going to be able to "do things" or "concentrate" until you break out of their physical control.

What I've described above? I do not believe are house rules - but the D&D 5E rules.

As far as if you feel a situation is an exception? Turn off the option for whatever is the exception. I can imagine NO exception where a physical attack could come into play when grappled. But if you have your own house rules that don't require concentration for spells/psionics - then that is YOUR house rules. Not some D&D 5e set of rules.

Gist is - I give you that option to work around by turning off specific attack limits if your house rules allow it - which can then be turned right back on.

I agree - if they are my house rules or my interpretation of the rules - I'd give an exception to just that Grappled "effect". But I do not believe that is the case here. Grappled effect will prevent you from doing a number of things. Restrained (which I do not even limit - game does that) will not.

Apply the right effect - for the right situation - never think of them as the SAME. They are not.

[Also, you are on V1.3 correct? Check DMsG for the latest version there have been several edits since I first put it out and its possible some early one had restrained - though I really don't remember - only why it is NOT a thing I can limit.]

4wire
July 6th, 2020, 18:47
I was talking about grappled indeed, not restrained.

And originally was really looking for your interpretation of grappled as well. I understand grappled and restrained are different.

The RAW are :
"Grappled
A grappled creature's speed becomes 0, and it can't benefit from any bonus to its speed.
The condition ends if the grappler is incapacitated (see the condition).
The condition also ends if an effect removes the grappled creature from the reach of the grappler or grappling effect, such as when a creature is hurled away by the thunderwave spell."

Sage Advice:
"If a creature is grappled, can it still attack and use its
special abilities? The grappled condition limits movement,
not attacks, spellcasting, and the like. That said, many grappling abilities, such as a roper’s tendril attack, also deliver
effects like the restrained condition."

Again, not trying to win an argument, just trying to understand your interpretation.

Cheers!

SilentRuin
July 6th, 2020, 19:03
I was talking about grappled indeed, not restrained.

And originally was really looking for your interpretation of grappled as well. I understand grappled and restrained are different.

The RAW are :
"Grappled
A grappled creature's speed becomes 0, and it can't benefit from any bonus to its speed.
The condition ends if the grappler is incapacitated (see the condition).
The condition also ends if an effect removes the grappled creature from the reach of the grappler or grappling effect, such as when a creature is hurled away by the thunderwave spell."

Sage Advice:
"If a creature is grappled, can it still attack and use its
special abilities? The grappled condition limits movement,
not attacks, spellcasting, and the like. That said, many grappling abilities, such as a roper’s tendril attack, also deliver
effects like the restrained condition."

Again, not trying to win an argument, just trying to understand your interpretation.

Cheers!

Understood. I'm just trying to understand your interpretation of RAW (the rules as written).

Sage Advice is not RAW.

In no place that I've found is that Sage Advice in the rules. If I read the rules as written, Grappled is a strength overpowering of the player as I described. You can move them half speed at your control (0 is not interpreting the wording correctly). And as Concentration is written - there is no way a Grappled effect (actively being overpowered) is not going to break concentration. As Attacks are written - there is no way being physically controlled (a successful grapple) will allow you attacks.

Sage Advice is dead wrong IMHO in relation to RAW. Just the way I'm seeing it.

Can you justify being physically overpowered by someone - in their physical control - and them allowing you to use a weapon or concentrate on a spell (or move to do one) or psionics?

I cannot. Not in my wildest imaginations. Nor do I see this in RAW PHB description when taken in context with use of a weapon and concentration.

Hence, any other interpretation is a "house rules" thing from my interpretation of RAW.

If you can convince me that - as I've described in this post and my last - how a grappled PC/NPC can maintain concentration or wield a weapon - I will add an option to make grappled subject to that interpretation of the rules. I imagine their arms immobilize and they can be frog marched at half speed wherever the grappler wants.

Otherwise... :)

It's almost like Restrained is what you consider grappled. Not the same.

[And I understand even RAW is subject to interpretation so its entirely possible I'm in the minority - but I'm open to be convinced you can control their movement but not their ability to do anything else.]

[As we argue this I even begin to wonder if I should code successful grapple to break any (C) effects on the target rather than leaving it up to the DM to do that.]

4wire
July 6th, 2020, 19:49
Understood. I'm just trying to understand your interpretation of RAW (the rules as written).

Sage Advice is not RAW.

... snip ...

Hence, any other interpretation is a "house rules" thing from my interpretation of RAW.

If you can convince me that - as I've described in this post and my last - how a grappled PC/NPC can maintain concentration or wield a weapon - I will add an option to make grappled subject to that interpretation of the rules. I imagine their arms immobilize and they can be frog marched at half speed wherever the grappler wants.



Well... We use Sage Advice (which is official) as argument breakers, at least in my groups. If you prefer using your interpretation, I'm fully comfortable with that! :)

Not going to try and convince you, your opinion is valid but sometimes rules take shortcuts to simplify and balance the different classes. I prefer to use the official text as much as I can. Easier to play with different groups.

I've just commented out the grappled check in your code and it's perfect for us!

Thanks for the fun exchange dude!

LordEntrails
July 6th, 2020, 19:57
I'll add my view... :)

RAW says nothing about losing concentration, or being unable to attack. Any interpretation of a grapple that adds those caveats is a houserule. The RAW description of grapple could have easily said that it broke concentration, or that it prevented attacks or other actions. But it doesn't, so RAW a grapple does not.

Now, how do I envision this? Instead of some 'grapple' like a wrestler where the grappled creatures is wrapped up completely and can not move any appendages, a grapple also includes the 'simple' case where a creature wraps a tentacle around the waist of a person and prevents them from moving. Since that is all the grappled condition does, reduce movement speed to 0, that's all the grappled condition is trying to represent.

Now, I can certainly see other abilities or conditions that do more than a RAW grapple, but that's not imo relevant to a discussion of the grappled condition in 5E.

SilentRuin
July 6th, 2020, 20:27
I'll add my view... :)

RAW says nothing about losing concentration, or being unable to attack. Any interpretation of a grapple that adds those caveats is a houserule. The RAW description of grapple could have easily said that it broke concentration, or that it prevented attacks or other actions. But it doesn't, so RAW a grapple does not.

Now, how do I envision this? Instead of some 'grapple' like a wrestler where the grappled creatures is wrapped up completely and can not move any appendages, a grapple also includes the 'simple' case where a creature wraps a tentacle around the waist of a person and prevents them from moving. Since that is all the grappled condition does, reduce movement speed to 0, that's all the grappled condition is trying to represent.

Now, I can certainly see other abilities or conditions that do more than a RAW grapple, but that's not imo relevant to a discussion of the grappled condition in 5E.

So do you envision no disadvantage to being grappeled? It does not "say" anything about that either.

And grappled allows you to MOVE a grappled opponent - so that kind of breaks movement reduced to 0.

As in most things in the rules, it must be read in context with other rules. The 0 movement is under your OWN movement power. Restrained would be more of a an absolute 0 movement.

Either way - I can add the option to make grappled have no effects to combat at all if people are actually doing that.

It's crazy in my opinion to treat being grappled as "free to attack" with no problems but they can be dragged around wherever you want them to be dragged, and their concentration is intact. Just because the words are not explicitly stated - but things that break concentration and prevent attacks are elsewhere in other context.

I apply common sense interpretations in most rules I encounter and so they are in the extensions (all those other effects you can be in and limit your attacks etc.).

SilentRuin
July 6th, 2020, 20:30
Well... We use Sage Advice (which is official) as argument breakers, at least in my groups. If you prefer using your interpretation, I'm fully comfortable with that! :)

Not going to try and convince you, your opinion is valid but sometimes rules take shortcuts to simplify and balance the different classes. I prefer to use the official text as much as I can. Easier to play with different groups.

I've just commented out the grappled check in your code and it's perfect for us!

Thanks for the fun exchange dude!

Why I commented the code so heavily - so that could be done :)

As it stands someone else has taken your side so I'll probably go ahead and add an option to discount grappled as a limiting effect on attacks.

Still nuts in my opinion so have no limits or disadvantage to being grappled just because they didn't mention it - but context shows concentration and attacks would be seriously hindered.

Still - even if I never use the switch others obviously will. Go figure :)

SilentRuin
July 6th, 2020, 20:57
Alright - option is out there in V1.4 - Page 1 of this has been updated - DMsG has been updated.

Nice if someone tested it and let me know it actually worked.

LordEntrails
July 6th, 2020, 21:09
Thanks :)

I don't disagree with how you envision grapple for your table. And if that makes sense and fun for your table,I'm all for it.

My take, for my table, is I try not to read intentions or implications into the rules. We don't worry about it (and many of us play with a 3.5E DM who does, and we find it tedious and inconsistent because he changes his house rules all the time). So for me, since RAW doesn't say it does anything else, then for us grapple is something that only reduces the speed to 0.

Their are some NPCs (roper & choker maybe?) that do more than just grapple a creature with an attack. And in those cases (if I remember correctly) they specify that they do more than just apply the grappled condition. And we're good with that :)

SilentRuin
July 6th, 2020, 21:59
Thanks :)

I don't disagree with how you envision grapple for your table. And if that makes sense and fun for your table,I'm all for it.

My take, for my table, is I try not to read intentions or implications into the rules. We don't worry about it (and many of us play with a 3.5E DM who does, and we find it tedious and inconsistent because he changes his house rules all the time). So for me, since RAW doesn't say it does anything else, then for us grapple is something that only reduces the speed to 0.

Their are some NPCs (roper & choker maybe?) that do more than just grapple a creature with an attack. And in those cases (if I remember correctly) they specify that they do more than just apply the grappled condition. And we're good with that :)

Oh I'm all for not making things tedious and calculation heavy. Why I write these extensions when I get annoyed at figuring things out and why I like FGU :)

I love it when I have to figure out why all the dice were rolling only to find after doing a forensics of chat - that yes, FGU knew to break the concentration, add advantage, etc. and was correct.

I'm essentially a lazy DM and like all these things magically done for me. And at some point I'll probably not even forensics the chat when I see mysterious extra dice flying out of some roll, I'll just say...

It knows what its doing :)

Here's to reaching that point someday!

4wire
July 8th, 2020, 16:57
Have we been violently cordial to one another? :)

Thanks for the update my man.

SilentRuin
July 8th, 2020, 17:45
Have we been violently cordial to one another? :)

Thanks for the update my man.

Indeed ;)

Let me know if it worked.

4wire
July 8th, 2020, 18:34
Indeed ;)

Let me know if it worked.

Works indeed!

Now for the extra comment/suggestions:
- I try to avoid double negatives in my workday code, something like "Apply Grappled Effect" ON/OFF may have been better UX but that is subjective.
- The IF statement where you check for the Conditions (e.g. line 170 to 178 of manager_generic_actions.lua) would make a nice little function and avoid repeating that chunk of code for all "verify" logic.

Feel free to ignore me, I'm a Sr. Software Manager, can't help myself.

SilentRuin
July 8th, 2020, 19:59
Works indeed!

Now for the extra comment/suggestions:
- I try to avoid double negatives in my workday code, something like "Apply Grappled Effect" ON/OFF may have been better UX but that is subjective.
- The IF statement where you check for the Conditions (e.g. line 170 to 178 of manager_generic_actions.lua) would make a nice little function and avoid repeating that chunk of code for all "verify" logic.

Feel free to ignore me, I'm a Sr. Software Manager, can't help myself.

:)

The option wording is subjective. But, when considered from my perspective, the one who has that OFF always and wants it considered an override to IGNORE the good and wholesome interpretation of those rules...

Well, you can see that it is correctly worded ;)

If you note one of the comments near the top of all the .lua code I've written, it might answer that observation on my lack of breaking out common "functionality" and even templates!

A more detailed answer is quite simple, I had to - and continue to have to - change things and experiment with things to the point I'm willing to duplicate things to make it easier to read at a glance what is going on in that area of the code. Not as clean, for sure, but ever so much more convenient when any of these may change from "identical operations" to unique.

Feel free to ignore me, I'm recently retired from 35 years of software development, just learning LUA for the first time :)

4wire
July 8th, 2020, 20:08
Feel free to ignore me, I'm recently retired from 35 years of software development, just learning LUA for the first time :)

I knew it! :)

SilentRuin
July 28th, 2020, 14:19
I knew it! :)

After running a session with my group yesterday - I've come around to your way of thinking so changed the default to ON so that grappled will allow attacks by default. To many NPC's can specifically attack while grappling someone - so if I have a need to prevent any attacks while grappled I can just set the options to off for that situation.

You won! ;)

mattekure
July 28th, 2020, 16:40
I enjoy the extension, but I am not clear on what all of the Options do. Specifically all fo the "Verify X" options. They all default to on. Can you make a post explaining what they are doing?

SilentRuin
July 28th, 2020, 17:07
I enjoy the extension, but I am not clear on what all of the Options do. Specifically all fo the "Verify X" options. They all default to on. Can you make a post explaining what they are doing?

Sure - that bottom of DMsG for that extension you'll see


There are also Generic Actions (GM) options for attacks and spell casting commands that prevent them from working if out of ammo (weapons only) or in a state (effect) that would not allow that action. If you set them to off and want the overrides to no longer be executed in code (done in onInit), then you will need to restart FGU (in case overriding these results handlers interfered with some other extension and you wanted them completely disabled not just off from the users perspective).

To translate,

Normally, you can attack anything. This annoyed me as I would always forget to track what state they were in and whether they actually could attack anything. So I added to every type of attack a check on their current effects to see if they could attack. Including a check on ammo.

So, If they are

Paralyzed
Stunned
Unconscious
Incapacitated
Petrified
(optionally grappled)

A message will pop up in chat telling them they can't attack because they have one of those effects.

I was worried that some people might not like this or it would interfere with other extensions and they would want to the ability to turn them off.

So for each type of attack (in the code, not really visible to you as the user) I gave an option to turn off the verification against those effects.

So basically in the code, you can turn off the overrides on the ruleset for each of those types of things (Attack, Cast, Cast Effect, Cast Save, Damage, Heal, Power Save). Each of those are actual pieces of code I'm overriding to make these checks. Probably should have just made one option that said "do verification on effects" or not. But at the time I was more worried about other extensions (I've now learned caring about other extensions is not really something extension writers do to much).

As far as the Ignore Grappled Effect - I had actually included grappled as one of those effects (with a big explanation of my reasoning earlier in this thread) where I eventually conceded to make an option so you did not have to have it.

Just today I changed it to default NOT to use grappled as one of those effect verification checks as I realized to many NPCs can have you grappled and still attack you. Hence, by default its no longer in the checks. Its worded really poorly because I wanted that effect as part of the checks as default - and I'm to lazy to make it any better now (working on other extension that's taken 4 weeks of hell but am closing in on it).

vaughnlannister
August 21st, 2020, 19:52
Hi Silentruin, not sure if you noticed, however unfortunatley the latest FGU update afflicts your extension, I get an error message "Unable to find extension".
While the extension is still in my extension folder.

Thank you for taking a look!

SilentRuin
August 21st, 2020, 19:58
Hi Silentruin, not sure if you noticed, however unfortunatley the latest FGU update afflicts your extension, I get an error message "Unable to find extension".
While the extension is still in my extension folder.

Thank you for taking a look!

Yeah THANK you for confirming I'm not the only one seeing this. It's literally for every extension I get these errors. At least the one's I run which include Death Indicator. Please note in this thread (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?61091-Latest-build-just-broke-all-my-extensions) that you have also seen this with this update. I have no idea what is going on.

mattekure
August 21st, 2020, 20:08
I tried it out and dug into your extension. The error is because your XML files have comments between the <xml declaration at the top and the <root tag. If you take out any comments between those, the extension loads just fine. This is due to the FGUnity xml parser being much more strict than the one from FG Classic. Classic allowed a number of things which are really bad xml, and just ignored it. Unity doesnt allow them.

If you want to include comments, just do it right after the opening <root tag. so they would look like.



<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?>
<root>
<!--
comments
-->
<whatever code>

SilentRuin
August 21st, 2020, 20:13
I tried it out and dug into your extension. The error is because your XML files have comments between the <xml declaration at the top and the <root tag. If you take out any comments between those, the extension loads just fine. This is due to the FGUnity xml parser being much more strict than the one from FG Classic. Classic allowed a number of things which are really bad xml, and just ignored it. Unity doesnt allow them.

If you want to include comments, just do it right after the opening <root tag. so they would look like.



<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?>
<root>
<!--
comments
-->
<whatever code>


So the most recent update just killed it now? Ok - I can fix all that I guess. Let me give it a try. So 4 extensions I have to fix. Wondrous. Thanks much for the news. Please post that in this (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?61091-Latest-build-just-broke-all-my-extensions) other thread.

SilentRuin
August 21st, 2020, 20:18
I tried it out and dug into your extension. The error is because your XML files have comments between the <xml declaration at the top and the <root tag. If you take out any comments between those, the extension loads just fine. This is due to the FGUnity xml parser being much more strict than the one from FG Classic. Classic allowed a number of things which are really bad xml, and just ignored it. Unity doesnt allow them.

If you want to include comments, just do it right after the opening <root tag. so they would look like.



<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?>
<root>
<!--
comments
-->
<whatever code>


Let me make absolutely sure on this - your talking about where I started with Death Indicator and they had comments in all there XML's with something like this...



<!--
File: record_char.xml
Author: Cleveland E. Raymond (Valerian Stormbreaker)
Copyright © 2019 Slotware Gaming Technologies LLC. All Rights Reserved.
-->


And I need to move that down into the root correct? Because I did copy that format assuming it was the way to go in ALL my xml files. Just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly.

mattekure
August 21st, 2020, 20:23
Yes, this


<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?>

<!--
File: extension.xml
Author: Cleveland E. Raymond (Valerian Stormbreaker)
Copyright © 2019 Slotware Gaming Technologies LLC. All Rights Reserved.

Modified 2020 SilentRuin
-->


<root version="3.0">



Should look like this:


<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?>
<root version="3.0">
<!--
File: extension.xml
Author: Cleveland E. Raymond (Valerian Stormbreaker)
Copyright © 2019 Slotware Gaming Technologies LLC. All Rights Reserved.

Modified 2020 SilentRuin
-->

SilentRuin
August 21st, 2020, 20:33
Yes, this


<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?>

<!--
File: extension.xml
Author: Cleveland E. Raymond (Valerian Stormbreaker)
Copyright © 2019 Slotware Gaming Technologies LLC. All Rights Reserved.

Modified 2020 SilentRuin
-->


<root version="3.0">



Should look like this:


<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?>
<root version="3.0">
<!--
File: extension.xml
Author: Cleveland E. Raymond (Valerian Stormbreaker)
Copyright © 2019 Slotware Gaming Technologies LLC. All Rights Reserved.

Modified 2020 SilentRuin
-->



Well crap - just moved all those in death indicator of which there are a bunch - and the same error popped up. Let me double check I did not miss one. You sure you had a failing version and fixed it right?

mattekure
August 21st, 2020, 20:37
Yes. I downloaded the most recent death indicator. stripped out the comments. and it loads fine in unity.

https://imgur.com/4jJhQg9.jpg

I've attached my version here.

SilentRuin
August 21st, 2020, 20:42
Yes. I downloaded the most recent death indicator. stripped out the comments. and it loads fine in unity.

https://imgur.com/4jJhQg9.jpg

I've attached my version here.

Stripped OUT the comments. That's different than moving them under the root. I actually have another extension with comments between xml and root that is not giving this error. And when I moved them under root (like you did not) I still get the error.

Something is still weird here. I'm beginning to think there is a special char that's been copied around from the original comments or something.

mattekure
August 21st, 2020, 20:46
thats certainly possible. I know I ran into the issue of comments between <xml and <root before, which is where my suggestion came from. And stripping those comments has worked for both extensions I tested. perhaps the copyright character or something else is causing FG to treat the xml file as invalid.

SilentRuin
August 21st, 2020, 20:50
thats certainly possible. I know I ran into the issue of comments between <xml and <root before, which is where my suggestion came from. And stripping those comments has worked for both extensions I tested. perhaps the copyright character or something else is causing FG to treat the xml file as invalid.

Crap I'm going to have to literally load your version and try it because deleting them I still get that (notepad++ editor?)

SilentRuin
August 21st, 2020, 20:52
thats certainly possible. I know I ran into the issue of comments between <xml and <root before, which is where my suggestion came from. And stripping those comments has worked for both extensions I tested. perhaps the copyright character or something else is causing FG to treat the xml file as invalid.

Double crap. Your's works. Time for a bit of winmerge and see what the heck is really different here.

SilentRuin
August 21st, 2020, 20:56
thats certainly possible. I know I ran into the issue of comments between <xml and <root before, which is where my suggestion came from. And stripping those comments has worked for both extensions I tested. perhaps the copyright character or something else is causing FG to treat the xml file as invalid.

Something is different in every single xml file. Here is one of them.

mattekure
August 21st, 2020, 21:03
yeah, thats weird

SilentRuin
August 21st, 2020, 21:14
yeah, thats weird

Weirder I can't even get anything I edit to work. Do you use notepad++? If you do can you check what you have on encoding or language? I have UTF-8 and Normal.

mattekure
August 21st, 2020, 21:17
Yes, I use notepad++. For all the files I normally work with, I use UTF-8. When I open your files though, they are listed as Western European->ISO-8859-1

SilentRuin
August 21st, 2020, 21:17
Weirder I can't even get anything I edit to work. Do you use notepad++? If you do can you check what you have on encoding or language? I have UTF-8 and Normal.

Actually when I'm up in one of these files its iso-8859-1 also.

SilentRuin
August 21st, 2020, 21:18
Yes, I use notepad++. For all the files I normally work with, I use UTF-8. When I open your files though, they are listed as Western European->ISO-8859-1

It's because the XML states that is what they are.

Trenloe
August 21st, 2020, 21:29
So, there's two places that encoding is used - in the XML and in the file encoding data.

In XML it is just telling XML what encoding the file *should* be in - and as long as the XML engine reading the file reads that, then the file should also be in that encoding. To set the file encoding, in Notepad++ use the "Encoding" menu option. I don't know if this is the issue though, but it's good practice to make sure you're saving the files using the expected encoding.

SilentRuin
August 21st, 2020, 21:37
Yes, I use notepad++. For all the files I normally work with, I use UTF-8. When I open your files though, they are listed as Western European->ISO-8859-1

This is insane. It has nothing to do with the comments at all. I'm willing to bet if you zip up the original code yourself and deliver it - it will work fine.

I use this script to deliver all my files.



powershell "Compress-Archive '.\DeathIndicatorEx\*' '.\DeathIndicatorEx.zip'"
ren DeathIndicatorEx.zip DeathIndicatorEx.ext
move /y DeathIndicatorEx.ext "-----my dir ----\AppData\Roaming\SmiteWorks\Fantasy Grounds\extensions\"
Pause


It has always worked. I deliver these files in fact.

Well I could NEVER get your files to work - not even the exact ones. I finally did the right mouse compress file by hand - renamed it to DeathIndicatorEx.ext - then manually copied it over to the extensions directory - and it worked. Every time. Every time I used my script - it did not.

Nothing has changed on my end at all. I left the comments in and it worked - IF I compressed the directory manually.

WHY is the current delivery choking on power shell generated files? What is different? What changed in how they read a zip that now makes this bad?

mattekure
August 21st, 2020, 22:08
that is interesting. I use a batch file and 7zip to zip up mine and have never encountered an issue.

SilentRuin
August 21st, 2020, 22:14
that is interesting. I use a batch file and 7zip to zip up mine and have never encountered an issue.

Yeah I never did till now with powershell. Basically even the old ones I did weeks ago stopped working with this release - fine if I go back to PREV release. Gist is I did them all manually leaving the comments as they were - with right mouse and compress files in windows 10 and it worked. Just got done redelivering all my extensions here and in DMsG. What a pain. Glad I figured it out - thanks to you for providing the clues.

mattekure
August 21st, 2020, 22:15
yeah, glad you go it fixed. sorry for the misleading path down the comments issue. I know I experienced that previously, I guess they have made changes to the xml parsing behavior since then.

SilentRuin
August 21st, 2020, 22:18
yeah, glad you go it fixed. sorry for the misleading path down the comments issue. I know I experienced that previously, I guess they have made changes to the xml parsing behavior since then.

I would not have solved it without that misleading path so don't apologize. The ONLY way this was solved was by taking your files and finding they did not work but your zip of them did.

SilentRuin
August 21st, 2020, 22:22
yeah, glad you go it fixed. sorry for the misleading path down the comments issue. I know I experienced that previously, I guess they have made changes to the xml parsing behavior since then.

Also I just downloaded 7zip - when next I work on an extension I will be making a file to auto execute using that instead - once I test it of course :) Thanks for that also.

mattekure
August 21st, 2020, 22:24
I use a simple batch file like this to auto build for both classic and unity.



cd "C:\Users\John\Projects\Shops\extension\"
7z a "Shops.zip" *
COPY "C:\Users\John\Projects\Shops\extension\Shops.zip" "C:\Users\John\Fantasy Grounds\extensions\Shops.ext"
MOVE "C:\Users\John\Projects\Shops\extension\Shops.zip" "C:\Users\John\Fantasy Grounds Unity\extensions\Shops.ext"

SilentRuin
August 21st, 2020, 22:39
I use a simple batch file like this to auto build for both classic and unity.



cd "C:\Users\John\Projects\Shops\extension\"
7z a "Shops.zip" *
COPY "C:\Users\John\Projects\Shops\extension\Shops.zip" "C:\Users\John\Fantasy Grounds\extensions\Shops.ext"
MOVE "C:\Users\John\Projects\Shops\extension\Shops.zip" "C:\Users\John\Fantasy Grounds Unity\extensions\Shops.ext"



Awesome - already replaced the powershell line with the 7z stuff in my script and all is working fine.

mattekure
August 29th, 2020, 01:54
I'd like to suggest adding another button, "Stand Up" which removes the prone condition.

Also, would it be possible to put the buttons list higher up, under the Weapons list. some characters have a ton of powers that I have to scroll through and having them higher up would be nice.

SilentRuin
August 29th, 2020, 02:22
I'd like to suggest adding another button, "Stand Up" which removes the prone condition.

Also, would it be possible to put the buttons list higher up, under the Weapons list. some characters have a ton of powers that I have to scroll through and having them higher up would be nice.

It’s strictly supporting the RAW 5E in the PHB pages I listed. Trying not to keep adding everything that can be added as it would be never ending. Not sure why FGU leaves it to DM to remove prone as I can see a use for something like that - but also players being able to remove effects would need to be limited to only on turn and such.

Gist is “stand up” is not one of the official actions - though I suppose it should be.

For the move up these things are additional actions per PHB - hence they are added at bottom of pc and NPC sheets. NPC sheet is formatted differently than PC sheet but same sub window is appended at bottom of both.

SmackDaddy
August 30th, 2020, 02:39
Very interested in this extension.....sorry if this has already been answered, but I know there's always a possibility that extensions can class, but for a FGU licensed user, will this work with the Rob2e DM and Player tools running along side of it? Thank you in advance for your time.

SilentRuin
August 30th, 2020, 04:27
Very interested in this extension.....sorry if this has already been answered, but I know there's always a possibility that extensions can class, but for a FGU licensed user, will this work with the Rob2e DM and Player tools running along side of it? Thank you in advance for your time.

I have no earthly idea if it does or not. The only thing I can answer for sure is it works with the extensions I use personally in my signature. For sure others have commented on different aspects in this thread and the DMsG replies for this - but there is no way I will ever "certify" it works in things I don't use myself.

Maybe someone has tried it and can answer your question here, but I cannot. Nor will I ever claim it will work in those other things even if others claim it does. Not trying to scare you off but its just the facts of extensions that unless you actively use them with the ones a developer uses you really have no idea if they work or not.

Or will keep working if they do - as FGU is still Beta and changing.

SmackDaddy
August 30th, 2020, 19:26
I have no earthly idea if it does or not. The only thing I can answer for sure is it works with the extensions I use personally in my signature. For sure others have commented on different aspects in this thread and the DMsG replies for this - but there is no way I will ever "certify" it works in things I don't use myself.

Maybe someone has tried it and can answer your question here, but I cannot. Nor will I ever claim it will work in those other things even if others claim it does. Not trying to scare you off but its just the facts of extensions that unless you actively use them with the ones a developer uses you really have no idea if they work or not.

Or will keep working if they do - as FGU is still Beta and changing.

Oh, no worries @SilentRuin - I completely get that -- so no apologies or caveats needed but I appreciate the attempt. Just was hoping SOMEONE here could report whether or not they use Rob2e/Diablobob's extensions along with this one successfully in Unity, before I pulled the trigger and purchased it for myself. I find it would be an awesome addition for my players to use for simplicities' sake. Anyone else able to confirm/deny? Thank you in advance.

jrowsey1
August 31st, 2020, 21:03
@SmackDaddy I am running this extension in Unity along with most of Robs/Diablobob/Kent's extensions, and have not encountered any issues so far. YMMV

SmackDaddy
September 6th, 2020, 20:39
Thank you for this extension. One of my characters noticed a typo in the "Dodge" button text (when you hover over it) - it says it imposes "Disadvantage" to Dexterity Saving throws....but shouldn't it impose Advantage?

SilentRuin
September 6th, 2020, 22:49
Thank you for this extension. One of my characters noticed a typo in the "Dodge" button text (when you hover over it) - it says it imposes "Disadvantage" to Dexterity Saving throws....but shouldn't it impose Advantage?

Typo in the tooltip - V 1.7 has it fixed - thanks :)

SmackDaddy
September 9th, 2020, 20:20
Typo in the tooltip - V 1.7 has it fixed - thanks :)

Very welcome! :) Thank you for the extension! ;)

jrowsey1
September 17th, 2020, 03:28
Suggestion/Request:
I see that there is already a generic action for "Ready". Anyway to add/modify a button for "Ready Action" and "Ready Spell"? The reason for the distinction being that when you Ready a Spell you have to maintain concentration on that spell until the Trigger occurs, so the Ready Spell button would add "Ready Spell (C)" effect to the PC on the Combat Tracker so that if the PC takes damage before the Trigger happens, a concentration check will be made automatically.

SilentRuin
September 17th, 2020, 04:08
Suggestion/Request:
I see that there is already a generic action for "Ready". Anyway to add/modify a button for "Ready Action" and "Ready Spell"? The reason for the distinction being that when you Ready a Spell you have to maintain concentration on that spell until the Trigger occurs, so the Ready Spell button would add "Ready Spell (C)" effect to the PC on the Combat Tracker so that if the PC takes damage before the Trigger happens, a concentration check will be made automatically.

The concentration is supposed to be for the actual spell which would be to difficult to really do without knowing the spell. For sure I have an extension that will actually remove concentration spells currently in effect for that player which depends on (C) effects actually being correctly defined.

Hence, not something I’m willing to add to this extension - sorry. But nothings says you can’t modify it for yourself.

mattekure
September 17th, 2020, 12:19
The concentration isnt the concentration of the spell, its concentrating on the act of holding the spell. Once the spell is cast, it may or may not require continuing concentration.

From the PHB:

When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy, which you release with your reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and holding onto the spell's magic requires concentration. If your concentration is broken, the spell dissipates without taking effect. For example, if you are concentrating on the web spell and ready magic missile, your web spell ends, and if you take damage before you release magic missile with your reaction, your concentration might be broken.

SilentRuin
September 17th, 2020, 14:14
The concentration isnt the concentration of the spell, its concentrating on the act of holding the spell. Once the spell is cast, it may or may not require continuing concentration.

From the PHB:

When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy, which you release with your reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and holding onto the spell's magic requires concentration. If your concentration is broken, the spell dissipates without taking effect. For example, if you are concentrating on the web spell and ready magic missile, your web spell ends, and if you take damage before you release magic missile with your reaction, your concentration might be broken.

Exactly.if you read the whole thing you would have seen the example showing you that The ready is specific. Ready action is specific - not generic - players have to tell me action specifically they are readying in detail - which is why the ready action button is just a signal of intent - not specifically what they are readying. Spell concentration is even more specific with actual consequences. You don’t get to say I’m readying a specific spell and then change it something else when you trigger it. This action supported here does not attempt to cover all the details of that.

Your example is spot on for what I was talking about.

mattekure
September 17th, 2020, 14:52
I think we agree on the mechanics, but not necessarily how it should be implemented. I think having a "Readied Spell (C)" action/effect button would be extremely helpful. With a spellcaster only able to concentrate on a single spell at a time, Its less important for me as the DM to see which readied spell they are concentrating on, that would be declared when they state their action. But having it auto track that a readied spell was disrupted would be very helpful as its easy to forget if not tracked. Even if you choose not to add a Readied Spell (C) action button, I'll still have my players create a power with that and use it. It seems to offer a significant benefit over the default lack of tracking readied concentration.

If there is a way to remove existing concentration effects when a new one is added, that would be cool too.

SilentRuin
September 17th, 2020, 15:37
I think we agree on the mechanics, but not necessarily how it should be implemented. I think having a "Readied Spell (C)" action/effect button would be extremely helpful. With a spellcaster only able to concentrate on a single spell at a time, Its less important for me as the DM to see which readied spell they are concentrating on, that would be declared when they state their action. But having it auto track that a readied spell was disrupted would be very helpful as its easy to forget if not tracked. Even if you choose not to add a Readied Spell (C) action button, I'll still have my players create a power with that and use it. It seems to offer a significant benefit over the default lack of tracking readied concentration.

If there is a way to remove existing concentration effects when a new one is added, that would be cool too.

How it would have to be implemented would be how I implemented all my spell work in Polymorphism. Any concentration spell would have to have to make sure it had the source node that generated it, any application of concentration would have to kill all others from that source node, and that is no small thing. I do that in my other extension because I have full control of the spells involved and can fully implement this for "my stuff only". To do it for every spell there is that does concentration would be an extension all by itself. For example, this is one tiny part of the concentration logic where I stop other concentration effects in polymorphism...



local aSelfEffects = {};
local aSourceConcentrationEffects = ActionSave.getConcentrationEffects(rSourceActor);
for _,v in ipairs(aSourceConcentrationEffects) do
if v.nodeCT == rSourceActorCT then
table.insert(aSelfEffects, { nodeCT = v.nodeCT, nodeEffect = v.nodeEffect });
else
EffectManager.expireEffect(v.nodeCT, v.nodeEffect, 0);
end
end
for _,v in ipairs(aSelfEffects) do
EffectManager.expireEffect(v.nodeCT, v.nodeEffect, 0);
end


To fully implement this correctly as you would have me do would require this type of logic across the code to insure that any concentration effect killed any others by the source node, that it placed the effect with the appropriate source node, that it supported dropping a spell from "spells" onto the ready button and recorded the name with "Ready" in front of the name with (C) and the relevant source node. It would require it to be killed any time any other concentration effect by that source node was attempted (not put into effect - attempted) which FGU does NOT do currently - would have to do all that myself. It would have to have some trigger logic that based on the Ready<spellname> (C) would kick off that spell and replace that effect with the real one or nothing if it failed. It would then be logical to support a big text note in Ready that told you the specfics of what they were reading and put it in chat regardless if it was a spell or not.

Point being - the reason I don't do "distance in the map" and some features described in the PHB specifics is the same reason FGU does not do a lot of these things. To many variables, the DM has too many options that can't all be covered easily by code. In those instances, I either partially implement what I can - or don't implement it at all except by a "notify of intent".

I'm not going to wreck my own extensions (polymorphism) which currently handle (C) things correctly by incorrectly implementing a concentration effect sabotaging my own session game play. Some day FGU may properly implement (C) effects - but they don't right now. I do in something I have full control over. This ready action? That can be anything. As I said - I'm not willing to step into that morass partially implementing it.

Maybe someday I'll make an extension that FULLY implements (C) effects across the board - but it would likely be dependent on specific spell effect properly defining the (C) effect everywhere and implementing a STOP CONCENTRATION button as I do in polymorphism all over the place.

Gist being - this is not the extension that is going to embark on the task.

Ready is just a notification of intent. This extension solves some of the missing functionality in FGU - not all of it. Nor will it unless it is clear cut and simple to implement. What your asking? Is not simple. Even if you would accept the partial solution - I would not.

Personally I remember it or have them enter in chat or add my own dummy effect. For sure you can go into upper right and add a custom effect ReadyEffect (C) for 1 turn and simply click on it if that is what you want. For sure I don't want that - and in the end - the extension is for my game playing style where I want (C) effects to be real and correctly defined and implemented - or leave it to the DM to do. In this case, its up to the DM.

ShaunB
September 27th, 2020, 22:41
I'm introducing one of my players to 5e for the first time with this new campaign, and having the basic actions on the sheet with automation is awesome. Well worth the cost of a coffee. Thanks for making this

SilentRuin
September 27th, 2020, 23:28
I'm introducing one of my players to 5e for the first time with this new campaign, and having the basic actions on the sheet with automation is awesome. Well worth the cost of a coffee. Thanks for making this

No worries - made all my extensions in my signature for my own use anyway. My first campaign in FGU has my players entering Vallaki in curse of strahd soon and these are the extensions I felt compelled to make so far. If something annoys me as we progress, you can bet I'll write an extension for it. Honestly though, hoping we have smooth sailing now and I can take a break from writing these things I use to achieve the zen of the lazy DM :)

arcanjl
October 3rd, 2020, 21:35
I was looking through your code to add:
Insightful Fighting
At 3rd level, you gain the ability to decipher an opponent’s tactics and develop a counter to them. As a bonus action, you make a Wisdom (Insight) check against a creature you can see that isn’t incapacitated, contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check. If you succeed, you can use your Sneak Attack against that target even if you don't have advantage on the attack roll, but not if you have disadvantage on it.

But all I ended up doing was breaking it. LOL. How hard would it be to add a insight vs deception?

SilentRuin
October 3rd, 2020, 22:36
I was looking through your code to add:
Insightful Fighting
At 3rd level, you gain the ability to decipher an opponent’s tactics and develop a counter to them. As a bonus action, you make a Wisdom (Insight) check against a creature you can see that isn’t incapacitated, contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check. If you succeed, you can use your Sneak Attack against that target even if you don't have advantage on the attack roll, but not if you have disadvantage on it.

But all I ended up doing was breaking it. LOL. How hard would it be to add a insight vs deception?

This extension is just for literal actions that are part of the Players Handbook actions that FGU did not provide. There are a million different special case rolls you could expand things into but I intentionally stayed away from anything not in RAW PHB actions section. And also steered clear of anything that had a lot of special cases to it (you'll notice it never even tries to adjust anything distance related and some of the buttons are purely to make a notification of intentions because there are to many variables in them).

Gist being, even though I know how to do that it won't be going in this particular extension. Having said that - I heavily commented the code and you should be able to modify it however you wish for your own uses. That's actually how I learned to code in FGU by examples and a lot of trial and error.

I made one generic die roll in there but there are plenty of examples in these forums and in my own code of how it is done. The problem is FGU die rolls are always branched off in stages - its not like your just writing code that does it in a linear manner. You kick off OOB messages to execute at the host which do one thing and then they write out results completely separately from your main branch of logic - which means you have to design your code with that in mind. Its not like it ever comes back from the processing of the OOB message to your original code. It just tosses that message out and carries on. You have to design all your logic following that OOB message until it completes. Unless you play even weirder games. To make special results like I did I could not actually use the canned dice rolls completely as you can see in the code. I had to make my own. Which is what you have to do if you want to control the process from beginning to end (and do logic in between stages of it).

Probably just confused you more. But its not hard once you understand the logic flow of OOB messages which are a key part of dice rolls. You just have to get creative if you want to do more than one thing during and after the roll (i.e. can't use the canned functions that just roll it and toss out results to chat). If you have specific questions and post an example of the code in your extension in the forums under the workshop area - you will get people to help you. Even me if I happen to see it.

arcanjl
October 4th, 2020, 09:52
Wow thank you for that response and the guidance, I will get to grinding :)

SilentRuin
November 2nd, 2020, 15:22
New fix to this extension

V 1.8 - PC and NPC code to determine skills was changed to fix bugs where NPC was not parsing skill text. Result is when a skill proficiency is set in PC/NPC it will use the proper modification value, otherwise it will use normal stats per PHB for the relevant die roll.

mordkhaan
November 10th, 2020, 06:34
May have come up before but in case it hasnt...
If I grapple someone and succeed and wish to then move them to the edge of a cliff and drop them, I would normally then use shove
But when I try it says you cannot shove a grappled target
So how should this be resolved?

SilentRuin
November 10th, 2020, 08:23
May have come up before but in case it hasnt...
If I grapple someone and succeed and wish to then move them to the edge of a cliff and drop them, I would normally then use shove
But when I try it says you cannot shove a grappled target
So how should this be resolved?

I can honestly say I’ve never been asked this before.

You tell your DM “I stop grappling”.

At which point they delete the effect.

Then you do whatever it is your going todo.

SilentRuin
November 16th, 2020, 20:48
I have partnered with Grim Press (https://discord.gg/N7MM93a) to handle sales and promo of this extension. I'm just to lazy to bother :)

SilentRuin
November 19th, 2020, 15:19
Added new grim press video.

Korav
November 21st, 2020, 14:44
Thank you Silent Ruin for the extension. It's been very helpful. I tried to read through several of the last few pages of this thread for an answer, but I didn't see anything. Any time someone has the grappled condition, they are restricted from performing a grapple and/or shove. I understand from the post on page 10 that you suggest removing the grappled condition in order to shove someone, which somewhat makes sense. However, by RAW, there is nothing that limits someone from grappling while being grappled.

From a narrative stand point, my perspective is that if a goblin has grappled a kobold, that shouldn't prevent the kobold from grappling the goblin. If this becomes limited, then the grappler will always have "the upper hand" in every interaction.

I played with the "Ignore Grappled Effect" but it doesn't seem to change the behavior (maybe I am misunderstanding the intention of it). Is there a way to allow the Grapple (and/or Shove) button to work for someone that has the grappled condition? If this is not possible and you aren't interested in making this part of the core extension, that's cool. I'm fine to make local changes to the mod if that's required, but if possible could you provide some guidance on where to start with it would be appreciated.

SilentRuin
November 21st, 2020, 15:15
Thank you Silent Ruin for the extension. It's been very helpful. I tried to read through several of the last few pages of this thread for an answer, but I didn't see anything. Any time someone has the grappled condition, they are restricted from performing a grapple and/or shove. I understand from the post on page 10 that you suggest removing the grappled condition in order to shove someone, which somewhat makes sense. However, by RAW, there is nothing that limits someone from grappling while being grappled.

From a narrative stand point, my perspective is that if a goblin has grappled a kobold, that shouldn't prevent the kobold from grappling the goblin. If this becomes limited, then the grappler will always have "the upper hand" in every interaction.

I played with the "Ignore Grappled Effect" but it doesn't seem to change the behavior (maybe I am misunderstanding the intention of it). Is there a way to allow the Grapple (and/or Shove) button to work for someone that has the grappled condition? If this is not possible and you aren't interested in making this part of the core extension, that's cool. I'm fine to make local changes to the mod if that's required, but if possible could you provide some guidance on where to start with it would be appreciated.

Originally I had a grappled individual defaulted to not be able to attack or throw spells, that was that entire discussion you saw earlier in this thread. That is what the "Ignore Grappled Effect" was for and why it was defaulted to be on. If its off then you can't attack or throw spells (I think if memory serves me). Most rules, as you know, in D&D Raw have grey areas. If you are grappling someone - it means you have enough control of them you can drag them around at half your speed. It means you have OVERCOME their strength/whatever to do this. In order to escape this - you must escape the grapple. Obviously if your overpowered by someone having a grip on you enough to drag you around you can't really suddenly overpower them in turn - that would essentially BE breaking the grapple. Which you have to do first. However, if you have some idea that both can overpower each other at same time (something impossible in my mind) you will have to - as host - apply the grapple yourself. Nothing stops you from dropping the grappled effect into a combat tracker entry yourself.

Personally, if someone is grappled I would never allow that. They would have to break the overpowering grip on them before they could overpower their opponent - in which case they would have broken their opponents grapple to do so. That's how this interprets this rule. But nothing stops you from simply dragging the grappled effect and dropping it over a combat entry like you do without this effect. I can't remember the source rules for it when that happens but if it applies the source then my break grapple will still work - otherwise you'd have to manage that manual grappled effect ending yourself.

And of course, you can modify the extension to simply take that "if check" out in your version. Sounds like you know how and its very simple to do. But I design all my extensions for my own games, and while I have been convinced to change them in the past (as you can see in any of my extensions threads), the first hurdle is to convince me I want it in my game or that enough people want something that won't effect my game (another option in this case).

If you need to know where exactly to make the change to allow this in your version let me know and I'll post it for you - should be pretty simple to find though if you know extensions as it sounds like you do.

Korav
November 21st, 2020, 16:27
I'm familiar with how to make basic modifications of extensions, but I've reviewed the code and I'm not following where the initial check, so a starting point would be helpful.

SilentRuin
November 21st, 2020, 16:42
I'm familiar with how to make basic modifications of extensions, but I've reviewed the code and I'm not following where the initial check, so a starting point would be helpful.

Sent you PM with the code changes that "I think" you need - but in the end you'll have to make sure of my guess.

DM_BK
November 23rd, 2020, 19:33
Love this extension! But why does Dodge set the effect to Init adjustment at 0? This causes the effect to fall off at the top of the round which isn't how Dodge works. It's in effect "Until the start of your next turn".

SilentRuin
November 23rd, 2020, 20:21
Love this extension! But why does Dodge set the effect to Init adjustment at 0? This causes the effect to fall off at the top of the round which isn't how Dodge works. It's in effect "Until the start of your next turn".

I use reshuffle option to reroll init every turn to keep my players guessing. Nothing in FGU can do the "until the start of your next turn" without setting the nInit part of the effect (init in DB) to the init of whomever is applying the effect. And if you do the reshuffle - like me - your out of luck other than tracking it into the next turn for a bit. However, having said that - give me a bit and I'll put the init in the Help and Dodge so that people who don't do reshuffle of the init every turn can get it to work better. But can't really totally solve this one. Let me see what I can do.

Also Celestian had some free extension I think that would reset any effect init values to the reshuffled one but not sure if it worked or not based on posts in that thread. Also this is FGU - not FGC.

SilentRuin
November 23rd, 2020, 20:34
Love this extension! But why does Dodge set the effect to Init adjustment at 0? This causes the effect to fall off at the top of the round which isn't how Dodge works. It's in effect "Until the start of your next turn".

Went ahead and added init into effects. Won't help me as I reroll init every round but will help those that do not.

V 1.9 - Added init to effects for DODGE and HELP so that you can get them to actually last to next turn. Warning: If you use the reroll init every round like me you'll have to manually update the effect init value to the new initiative of the player. Still - willing to make the change even though I can't take advantage of it.

DM_BK
November 23rd, 2020, 23:38
Awesome! Thank you!!!

DM_BK
December 1st, 2020, 16:46
1.9 works like a champ!

I thought of one more really helpful thing for this extension: Can you add a Stand button to the generic actions that simply says "<name> stands up!" and also removes Prone effect?
It would fit in so well with this extension IMO.

SilentRuin
December 1st, 2020, 16:56
1.9 works like a champ!

I thought of one more really helpful thing for this extension: Can you add a Stand button to the generic actions that simply says "<name> stands up!" and also removes Prone effect?
It would fit in so well with this extension IMO.

That's been suggested before and my response is the same - this extension just covers the missing actions in PHB as listed in the .txt file of page 1. For sure you can make an extension pile all sorts of things into it - which if you've used any of mine you know I do already as I'm writing them for myself. But "prone" is something I only ever want in the hands of the DM (me) in my games. Never in the hands of a player. And that is the true litmus test for any changes/extensions I put out there.

Is it what I want.

So while you can see I do react to things I think are justified in my games (or I consider bugs) and add them into the extensions fast, I also have no fear of saying "NO" :) In this case, sorry but it does not fit in my own game play so not going to do this one.

SilentRuin
December 18th, 2020, 22:14
The sales for this product in DMsG may soon be deactivated per this post - will let you know when that happens and when it finds a new home. (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?64473-How-important-to-Community-is-a-SmiteWorks-store-app-to-do-Extensions&p=565817#post565817)

SilentRuin
February 16th, 2021, 22:56
you must update extensions - they will have issues with latest fgu update - if you don't update fgu then keep your old extension

Daniel Fletcher
February 17th, 2021, 02:38
Thanks for updating so fast: Will download the latest. Are all the other ones updated?

SilentRuin
February 17th, 2021, 02:46
Thanks for updating so fast: Will download the latest. Are all the other ones updated?

Of mine, yes.

Kingfish
February 18th, 2021, 21:04
Of mine, yes.

The update fixed my issues...wish I would have just skipped to the end of this and read it first. I was yankin mah'hair out! I JUST bought your big bundle off DMGuild. I hope its not a case where I should have waited. Really good stuff so far, highly pleased!!!

SilentRuin
February 18th, 2021, 21:06
The update fixed my issues...wish I would have just skipped to the end of this and read it first. I was yankin mah'hair out! I JUST bought your big bundle off DMGuild. I hope its not a case where I should have waited. Really good stuff so far, highly pleased!!!

Then repull Equipped Effects per its thread in here - idiot (me) made a stupid mistake. Fixed in latest version.

Kingfish
February 19th, 2021, 00:25
Then repull Equipped Effects per its thread in here - idiot (me) made a stupid mistake. Fixed in latest version.

So I got it today, its all good then, correct?

I got a question about that AND the polymorhism one...maybe I should ask that on the other thread...

SilentRuin
February 19th, 2021, 00:32
So I got it today, its all good then, correct?

I got a question about that AND the polymorhism one...maybe I should ask that on the other thread...

Yep all my extensions were good if you got them since Tuesday after FGU extension breaker update dropped. Except Equipped Effects which I had to fix earlier this afternoon per that thread (whatever time/version that was)

SilentRuin
February 26th, 2021, 20:40
V1.11 - Bug: was not supporting effects that modified raw abilities (ex. STR: 5). Fixed.

nephranka
March 3rd, 2021, 19:24
Please forgive me if this has been explained, but I do not see in the guild the 1.11 version only 1.10? I have purchased it and tried re-downloading it today. Maybe 1.11 is somewhere else? Thanks!

SilentRuin
March 3rd, 2021, 19:37
Please forgive me if this has been explained, but I do not see in the guild the 1.11 version only 1.10? I have purchased it and tried re-downloading it today. Maybe 1.11 is somewhere else? Thanks!

Not entirely sure - I think I forgot to update version number then corrected it after I delivered - or never delivered it? That's the only reason I can think. Repackaged and redelivered with the version number for sure this time. It's updated DMsG. Thanks for noticing because my local machine showed the version number updated which was not the case in DMsG.

nephranka
March 3rd, 2021, 21:11
Indeed, It is now reporting 1.11. Thanks!

jesshmusic
May 29th, 2021, 17:11
About to get this extension but I have a question. In the video you make NPC sheets into little draggable icons on the tabletop. How did you do that? I assume its an extension?

daggerfortysix
May 29th, 2021, 19:05
About to get this extension but I have a question. In the video you make NPC sheets into little draggable icons on the tabletop. How did you do that? I assume its an extension?

This is standard functionality in FGU. Right click and select the minimize icon on the radial menu. You can do this with most windows.
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