Reflex Save/Effect Issue

[Blackfoot]

So.. when a target suffers from Pinned or Paralyzed or Helpless conditions DEX should be negated but when targeted with a spell that has a Reflex save.. no penalty is applied.
There is a penalty when the Grappled condition is in effect though.

[Asgurgolas]

I noticed that and used a funny workaround: I open a "for DM eyes only" effect on the tracker for each character and script the following: "IF: paralyzed; DEX: -[whatever dex that character has], enhancement": it's annoying, but you just do it once per character (and possibly you could just slap it on monsters when needed). I rarely use "unconscious" anyway, but you can also do the same for "helpless". Setting it as an enhancement "effect" makes it so it won't stack with itself should the character end up both paralyzed and helpless effects on, somehow

[Blackfoot]

It is a bug.. so 'work around' really shouldn't be a thing.

[bmos]

It is a bug.. so 'work around' really shouldn't be a thing.Obviously this should be fixed, but workarounds are very useful when waiting for fixes to be implemented and tested.
Thanks Asgurgolas!

[Kelrugem]

It is more like a missing feature, the conditions are defined here: https://fantasygroundsunity.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/FGU/pages/950877/PFRPG+and+3.5E+Effects :) And nowhere is mentioned there that the conditions will automatically deny the DEX bonus to reflex saves :)

But that would be certainly be a nice feature :) I am just saying that there might be always a gap in the automation and not everything is automated, such that it is in general good to know how the conditions are defined in sense of automation :) it would be a bug when FG would claim to automate what you're missing. Therefore the link, I always use that to avoid wrong usages of conditions in my game :)

[Blackfoot]

But.. not mentioning it is.. 'wrong' because that's what the conditions do.. there are other conditions that deny DEX.. the coding part of it is pretty simple.. just add the appropriate conditions to the list of conditions that deny dex.. the fact that they are missing from the list is a bug.. hence the bug report.. why are we still talking about this?

[Blackfoot]

Apparently Unconscious also fails to deliver the appropriate effects..
So.. the effects in question are:
Pinned
Helpless
Unconscious
Paralyzed
All nullify DEX for attacks.. but not for SAVEs.

[Trenloe]

If you want to get these fixed in the base product, and not get workarounds and further discussion, then I suggest you email [email protected] direct. Posting in a public forum will always engage people and get feedback, suggestions and comments.

[Blackfoot]

Honestly, I always assume that posting to the forum is the right thing to do.. that way the community is aware :
A: That the bug exists.
and
B: If and when something is being done about it.

[Trenloe]

The forums is fine as well, but your responses in this thread seemed to suggest you didn't want to engage the community about work arounds and discussions. Posting in a public forum will get you that. If I misinterpreted your responses to people trying to help, then please accept my apology.

[Kelrugem]

But.. not mentioning it is.. 'wrong' because that's what the conditions do.. there are other conditions that deny DEX.. the coding part of it is pretty simple.. just add the appropriate conditions to the list of conditions that deny dex.. the fact that they are missing from the list is a bug.. hence the bug report.. why are we still talking about this?

Of course it is good to mention what you want to have as feature, I didn't say anything against that :) (I even supported it)

I just said that it is not a bug because it is not claimed that it works otherwise. When we define a bug as a lack of automation then everything is buggy as hell :D (I mean every VTT and ruleset etc.) That does not sound like a useful definition for bug :D

And my answer was mainly about providing the link by the way :) I thought you do not know about the condition list because of your expectation about what the conditions are doing :)

[Blackfoot]

I guess I just get frustrated when actual issues get sidetracked and forgotten.

[Trenloe]

I guess I just get frustrated when actual issues get sidetracked and forgotten.
The support team (now two members) have implemented a tracking system for issues.