Cypher System - Character Sheet bugs

[fishofdeath]

I'm new to Fantasy Grounds and have been exploring the Cypher System ruleset. One thing I noticed is that there are a couple of bugs on the character sheet - specifically with regards to Assets and Modifiers. In some sections the modifiers don't add in properly, and in others, the Assets cap at one instead of two. Is there somewhere I can report these, or is this the right place?

[Moon Wizard]

You can report them right here. Please include exact steps; as I only played Numenera once, and that was before Cypher even came out.

The ruleset is in maintenance mode, since it doesn't have a dedicated developer; but I will try to fix any bugs.

Regards,
JPG

[fishofdeath]

The Asset and the Modifier box work differently each time it appears on the character sheet. For Defense rolls, Attacks, and Initiative, the Assets cap at one instead of the number you put in the box. For Defense rolls and Skills, the modifier box doesn't do anything.

[superteddy57]

Can you provide images (if possible) and step by step instructions on what you are doing to make these bugs? Also provide it's proper functionality.

[fishofdeath]

For Defense Rolls - No matter what number I put in the Asset box, it only adds one to the task roll (the number in the green circle). Expected behavior would be that it adds the number to the task roll - so in the attached screen shot the result would be 7 (2 for the die roll + 5 for the Asset). If the intent was to cap the number in that box, then the cap should be two per the rules, not one.36924

Additionally, no matter what number is put in the modifier box, that number is not added to the die roll. Expected behavior would be that it's added to the die roll. In the attached screenshot, the die roll should add up to 24, and then the task roll should be 8.
36925

The assets do work correctly on the Skill Roll, so that might be a place to start. 36926

The modifier box works correctly on Initiative, on the Actions tab.36927

The Assets exhibit the same (broken) behavior for Attack Rolls and Initiative, and the Modifiers exhibit the same (broken) behavior for Skills.

Please let me know if you need anything additional, and thanks a ton for taking a look at this!

[superteddy57]

Thank you for the report. I will see why those are not being added into the rolls

[superteddy57]

I'm sorry, but still a bit confused on what is what. I apologize, not intimate with the system. Can you elaborate a bit more on the green circle, what the assets box is supposed to add to, and what the modifier box adds to? If you can, please join our Discord server (https://discord.gg/F3Uq4W) and reach out to me on there. We can talk one on one to help me through the exact process. You may also PM me here your discord name with # number as well and I'll shoot you a message.

[superteddy57]

Fixed the bugs related to rolling and was able to update the sidebar with some new record types that are now able to be drag n dropped to the character sheet. Character Types, Focus, and Descriptor are able to be made via the sidebar and dropped onto the character sheet. They can also be exported to help with module creation. I have also merged the attacks frame and abilities frame on the Actions tab for one stop drops of saved abilities from the Types and Focus. This is only available in Cypher and Numenera currently as The Strange needs a bit of investigation on how it does recursions. This was a quick addition as I was fixing the roller bugs. Please report any new bugs once this is released live.

[ShaneB]

Seeing as someone seems to be actively working on this :) Is there a "help" document on the ruleset? Some of the design decisions seem counter intuitive to the way the game works. Ie it appears that assets, effort, etc add to the task level - the green circled number - from the dice roll. Is this what was intended?

[Moon Wizard]

Caveat, I'm barely familiar with Cypher. Since training and assets are supposed help your roll, and the result icon shown by the roll is the difficulty that the roll would succeed against; shouldn't they be added?

Regards,
JPG

[superteddy57]

The green circle is the target number that is derived from the roll. So if the target number is 5, then the number in the green circle would need to be higher than that to succeed. Currently the Asset (adds to the green circle number) and Modifier (adds to the roll) boxes for various rolls are not linking into the roll correctly. I will be pulling my additions and only pushing fixes to the rolls. It created a lot of unforeseen issues and would corrupt campaigns. Those additions will be put on hold till a later time.

[Arunasoul]

The Edge box on the sheet seems completely broken. I can put in an edge of 4, but it will only ever apply 1 edge. I tried changing the 'tier' of the character, to see if some kind of limiter was placed to prevent edge from ever being more than the tier, but it didn't change anything.

Found this out when I used the 'attack roll' I set to have a stat pool cost of 2, and gave the sheet an edge of 4. I played around with different values ranging from 1-4 for both the cost and the edge value of the stat used, but it seemed to have no impact on the usage of 'edge'.

Edge is normally 'reduce cost of ability use by X' where X is your edge. Hence, since this is kinda core to running it as the pools themselves function as health so reductions in cost are pretty key, this seems real bad. So I'm not sure if I'm reading it wrong or using it wrong, but from the names of the fields themselves it seems to be a broken formula or something.

[Arunasoul]

Just found out what was going on, in the bottom left there's an effort and edge box that seems to be used for the formula instead of the referenced pool's edge value recorded on the sheet.

I can kinda get why, as there's a lot of pieces to cypher that kinda shift on the fly, but edge is relatively static, so I wasn't expecting a dynamic box for it the way I was effort.

[Moon Wizard]

If you make rolls from the character sheet; and the roll is set up on the sheet with a specific attribute; it will use the edge value defined on the character sheet.

Regards,
JPG

[Arunasoul]

If you make rolls from the character sheet; and the roll is set up on the sheet with a specific attribute; it will use the edge value defined on the character sheet.

Regards,
JPG

I had the roll on the actions portion of the sheet set up as shown in the test attack.

The 'Character Main Page' shows the first page of the sheet.

The dialogue from the roll, which runs when the sword icon button is pressed on the test attack's info uses the edge in the bottom left instead of the edge listed on the main page of the character sheet. This is true for all 3 stats, and regardless of what I set the edge value to above 0. I never tested negative. Am I doing it wrong or is there a different way of making rolls from the character sheet so it works?

If I'm doing it wrong in someway, this part probably doesn't matter, but if it looks right, then here's what I've tried
1) Referencing the different stats (Might, Speed, Intellect) while they had differing edge values.
2) Referencing the different stats (Might, Speed, Intellect) while they had the same edge values.
3) Referencing the different stats (Might, Speed, Intellect) while they had differing edge values and the tier of the character was raised.
4) Different pool costs for the ability as a method of seeing if maybe the info outputted into the textbox was saying 1 but it was subtracting the correct amount from the cost.

For each of those, it always referenced the value '1' which is the default number in the bottom left in the edge and effort box. If I changed what was in the box, the edge in the chat would change, but rolling with the sword button on the sheet constantly only used the edge listed in the edge and effort box.

Since it's a lesser used ruleset I'm totally open to the concept I made a mistake, I'm just not seeing one at the moment which is why I'm hoping I get an answer with the pictures I'm attaching. Thanks guys!

[wndrngdru]

Can confirm and I would call this a bug.

Edge associated with the stat is not being applied when using attacks, abilities, or skills.

[Moon Wizard]

It looks like the Edge field next to the Stats is set up to be the Max Edge applicable to a situation and used to cap the Edge applied by an ability/attack/skill. From the SVN history, it looks like it was added like that by the community developer that did the migration to support Cypher/Strange.

Regards,
JPG

[Moon Wizard]

Is there any reason you can think of for taking a reduced value for edge, instead of always taking the max? (In any of the systems, Cypher/Numenera/Strange ...)

JPG

[Moon Wizard]

Maybe it was supposed to be a way to avoid Edge applying twice in a round, if you applied Effort to both a Might attack and a Might damage roll?

JPG

[Moon Wizard]

I can probably make the changes pretty quickly for converting Edge to straight roll modifier; but then GMs/players would have to handle the applying same Edge multiple times for same action on their own. (or maybe make number on desktop into a toggle to enable/disable edge instead?)

JPG

[wndrngdru]

Correct. You can't apply edge more than once for the same action in a round. It's one or the other.

[Arunasoul]

Maybe it was supposed to be a way to avoid Edge applying twice in a round, if you applied Effort to both a Might attack and a Might damage roll?

JPG

Your right in that edge can only really be applied once in a round, though it's a cost reducer applied at the end of the overall cost of what your doing. Hence since it's broken into segments via the 'attack' and the 'damage', it's still the one action so edge, if you have enough, could in theory apply to the cost of both in the form of (Effort on attack + Effort on damage - Total Edge = Final Cost) but having enough edge for that to matter is quite rare. You would need to have at least 3 edge to reduce the cost of the first level of effort to nothing, for instance.

Would it be possible to have the text expression in the chat window mention 'left over edge' if the cost of what was done isn't using all of it as a method of allowing the GM's and players to track it when it's used on the attack roll? That would allow tracking of 'max edge', in case there is some niche case I'm unaware of that could cause it to matter. Otherwise, as far as I'm aware, there's nearly no reason to track it or use it as a limiting factor. It makes sense for effort, but edge is rarely if ever used in a way that trickling it out would matter.

I've only run the system for a few months, so I'm not 100% sure, but as far as I can tell there's nearly no reason to worry about anything other than using it as a lump sum in the calculations.

[Moon Wizard]

If I am able to do something, it will be very limited. (Apply edge always and let GM/players work out multi-roll, one action scenarios; or provide a simple disable.)

According to the rules, Edge can only be applied to one roll. So, there would be no "leftover edge", just a choice about which roll to apply edge to for each action. (if multiple rolls involved)

Regards,
JPG

[darrenan]

This was all tied to the Edge control on the desktop, which I'm removing. I'm streamlining the code and will make sure these issues get resolved as part of that.