Dungeon and Dragon (the magazines) conclude on Sept 2007

[Ged]

This announcement (at the moment displayed on Paizo's main page: https://paizo.com/) leaves me a bit sad. What about you folks?

[Culdraug]

End of an era true... but with Wizards taking the info online and Paizo branching out ... Im inclined to believe all is well.

[kimba]

yet another of Hasbro's brilliant ideas coming to fruition. I have been so disenchanted with this company since Hasbro took over. They seem to make the dumbest choises. it is almost as if they have a huge disconect with the people who buy their products.

[Griogre]

Very sad. I hope Pathfinder works for Paizo. Wizards seems like they are betting the farm on online. If they fail, Hasbro may well just gut and dump D&D.

[Yenooc]

Hmmm. And I just recently subscribed. :confused:

[kimba]

Very sad. I hope Pathfinder works for Paizo. Wizards seems like they are betting the farm on online. If they fail, Hasbro may well just gut and dump D&D.

I live in the area of WoTC and scuttlebutt has it that they are trying to dump Avalon hill and possibly the d20 system. a scarce rumor had it that White Wolf was talking to them about it.

now I must say that we need to consider the source here.
My brothers' cousins', babysitters', friend, heard it from her dog groomers' ex wife's son on a Sunday morning.
but is sounds like a Hasbro thing.

[Dachannien]

In a way, I hope they do manage to drop Avalon Hill, as long as they sell it to someone who plans to really do something with the division. AH made some great board games back in the day - an art long since ceded to the Germans - and it'd be great to be able to pick up a shiny new copy of Advanced Civilization (or, better yet, an Even More Advanced Civilization using some of the fan ideas floating around the Intarweb) or Dune.

[Illrigger]

Hasbro is a typical american corporation - everything is about the bottom line. The magazines just aren't selling.

Whenever I look at a copy of Dragon since the last "rebuild", I look at the comics and Class Acts section and then put it back on the rack - that's just not worth $50 a year to me or anyone else I know. Add in the fact that most of the actual gaming content that's in them ends up showing up in a book a whays down the line, and you're really paying $50 a year for ads and a few pages of fiction - most of which isn't all that great.

I'm sad to see the mags die, but if that's what they think people want for their money, then I'd rather see it go.

I AM gonna miss Zogonia, tho :(

[Griogre]

I quit getting Dragon many years ago. I have been a subscriber to Dungeon since the first issue, it is just so convient to have a bunch of small adventures for ideas or to for fill in or side adventures and the price per adventure was very low. The adventure paths have been popular recently and I hope the pathways does well for them. *shrug* I switched my remaining subscrition over to it. Whether I'll continue after the credit is used up I don't know. It seems awefully pricey. The PDFs might be another story and certainly would make input into FG easier.

[Agamon]

The Bad: WotC. How could they do this? They think their online crap will be better than Dragon and Dungeon? WotC has yet to do anything good, or even decent, electronically. Stupid move and WotC won't be getting anymore money from me.

The Good: Paizo. Erik Mona's done wonders with this company. The magazines were the best they've ever been in his hands. And if anything good comes of this, it's Pathfinder. A devoted Adventure Path with way more content and goodies than we got in Dungeon. Plus, it's being released in both hard copy and PDF! PDF=excellent for FG! I'm very happy about this!

Summary:
Wizards, rot in hell!
Paizo, marry me!

[Agamon]

Hasbro is a typical american corporation - everything is about the bottom line. The magazines just aren't selling.

Not true. Sales have risen in both magainzes in the past 2 years. Paizo wanted to keep selling the mags, WotC wouldn't let them. They want less competition for their own online thingy. It's the same reason they wouldn't let Paizo release an AoW hardcover, less competition for their new adventure hardcovers.

This did have a lot to do with the bottom line, but it was a powerplay, nothing less.

[sunbeam60]

I think it's incredibly sad, mostly because it'll remove that great focus point the D&D community had ("Did you do the Worms path? I did too"), but it does make sense to move this kind of stuff online.

All I hope is that Paizo can recreate what they had going offline; artwork consistently better than most Wizards publications, writing more succinct and deadlines that were actually adhered too. I'm fine with WotC thinking offline printing makes little sense nowadays, but if this is a sign that D&D is losing customers to WoW + others, it does make me sad.

Here's to hoping all those fantastic maps and character illustrations won't disappear from Paizo's publications. I'd almost prefer them to run the D&D line.

[Mellock]

I'm going to miss dungeon's adventures. But... I'm actually looking forward to what Paizo can produce without having to take directions from WotC.

I don't care much for WotC's current license-pulling stratgy. And I wouldn't be surprised if they charge as much for a download of a digital magazine as for the printed version now. But that way they can probably bundle it with another 1001 prestige classes you don't want. Or even better monsters, like the cleverly designed ghost of a vampiric were-badger. And intricate supplements for dealing with all those mundane things, like paper-cuts.

I'll just take my chances with Erik Mona.

[kalmarjan]

Honestly, I have been disenchanted with D&D as of late. I find myself getting back to my roleplaying roots with other systems.

You have to understand something though, this probably has been a long time in the works. Problem is, this industry works and moves at a snails pace. The most problematic situation I find here is that it will be a *whole* lot easier for those crooks who rip off PDFs to get their mits on them. Gone will be the days of scanning entire books, and the situation looks to get worse for the "bottom line" of the company.

Sandeman

[Elf]

I am sad as it is the end of an era... However I will porbably investigate the Pathfinder (unfetterred by the marketing guidelines of WOTC, what can Mona and company do?)

As for the online thing... WOTC has not been renewing licences for a while now. I remember that marketing survey they did awhile back...

One of the models was an electronic subscription service for "official content"; just wonder if WOTC is really planning on trying to do a VTT...

This will only do good things for the hobby... whether they fail (based on past history is likely) or succeed it only make the hobby grow more... Imagine Paizo releasing the quality but for other systems...

[kimba]

I think they are witdrawing licenses to consolidate and sell. I have a feeling that whoever is talking to WOTC has made certain demands and they are getting their duck in a row before they announce anything.

[Lysander]

One of the side things I missed from the Dragon magazines where the 'Tom Wham Games' that were periodically included (Search for Emperor's Treasure, File 13, and so on.)

:sigh:

:cry:

[heruca]

Heh, I still have my copy of "Search for the Emperor's Treasure" stashed away somewhere. Can't bring myself to throw it out, even though I'll probably never play it again.

[Elf]

One of the side things I missed from the Dragon magazines where the 'Tom Wham Games' that were periodically included (Search for Emperor's Treasure, File 13, and so on.)

:sigh:

I remember those, I actually used the Snit games in my campaign. :D

[Traygin]

Pretty sad that they are doing away with the Dragon, I had it back to issue number 3. I started playing D&D a long time ago. WoTC is also trying to monopolize everything D&D. As the rumor goes, WoTC may come out with a subscription product which will include the new incarnation of the Dragon/Dungeon magazine plus some other stuff. One rumor is that they will include a Virtual Table Top system in it which they are/may develop, oh yea you only get to play the online VTT game only up to three times a month.

[kimba]

Pretty sad that they are doing away with the Dragon, I had it back to issue number 3. I started playing D&D a long time ago. WoTC is also trying to monopolize everything D&D. As the rumor goes, WoTC may come out with a subscription product which will include the new incarnation of the Dragon/Dungeon magazine plus some other stuff. One rumor is that they will include a Virtual Table Top system in it which they are/may develop, oh yea you only get to play the online VTT game only up to three times a month.

I think you have some things correct they the VTT if it is produced will ot be limited to 3 times a month.

[Snikle]

Hmm, this all reminds me of a prediction I made about WotC's VTT, this move only makes sense as they move to a digital medium to release all their IP to. Putting it into a digital format and making the gamer foot the bill for printing (if they want it in paper format) only makes sense. How many of us do not have laptops they take to their RL games, or have a PC that they could use during those games?
WotC is not evil as may claim, they are simply trying to find a format that allows them to continue to make profit while still bringing gaming products out for fans. What would you rather have: a company that moves to a digital format but continues producing material, or a company that goes out of business completely and never makes more material?