Maps

[DMDaddy0]

How do you guys deal with map-making in FG? I've tried my luck with Dunjinni in the past, and I've not been thrilled. Is there an easy (free) program out there that will allow me to make decent-looking maps? I've had some luck just using Paint, but it kinda looks flat.

[Ram Tyr]

You could try AutoRealm. (Free)

I do not do it justice, but here is an example of a map made with AutoRealm.
AutoRealm Map submission for iCon (https://www.fouruglymonsters.com/community/showthread.php?t=1076)

Later.

[Griogre]

There are also plenty of maps available online - WoTC has a ton of them and there is RPGMap Share. Another mapper is Dungeon Forge (https://www.dungeonmapping.com/df/public_html/). There is Swordstone (https://www.stonesword.com/) too. Two other simple and easy to use mappers are Dungeon Crafter2 (https://www.geocities.com/blood_tyger/) and Lior's Map Creator (https://www.liors.net/software/map_creator/index.php). These are both no longer supported but they are easy to use. All are free.

[Deuce]

Hmm, Dundjinni is my absolute favorite. What is it you don't like about the Dundjinni maps?

A close second would be to just create the maps from scratch in Paintshop Pro.

[Oberoten]

Dungeonforge is quickly becoming my favourite for FG maps.

[Cantstanzya]

Hmm, Dundjinni is my absolute favorite. What is it you don't like about the Dundjinni maps?I don't like the fact that you are stuck with a certain size map and I have to piece all that I make in Dundjinni in a graphics program. Other than that I like it.

[Griogre]

Oh I forgot the tile mapper (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20061121t) at WoTC.

[greowhiste]

Photoshop. Period.

[Valarian]

CC2 / CC3 - very good mapping software, but beware the learning curve.

[greowhiste]

Speaking of which. I put a lot of time into some of my maps and dungeons, and they come out pretty nice if i do say so myself. Does anyone know of a place that is secure to upload them to share for free? (after i've run my players through the gauntlet of course)

[Valarian]

Speaking of which. I put a lot of time into some of my maps and dungeons, and they come out pretty nice if i do say so myself. Does anyone know of a place that is secure to upload them to share for free? (after i've run my players through the gauntlet of course)
https://rpgmapshare.com/

[DMDaddy0]

Hmm, Dundjinni is my absolute favorite. What is it you don't like about the Dundjinni maps?

A close second would be to just create the maps from scratch in Paintshop Pro.

I don't like the fact that you are a) restricted to a certain page size and b) restricted to a certain grid size. If I'm trying to re-create a large dungeon from a publication, or if I'm just making a big map, I run out of room. Also, the program seems to hog my system resources. It's not so bad at first, but as I add detail and the map gets bigger, the computer starts to really bog down. Lastly, I don't like the fact that the basic software comes with really little in the way of tiles and such, unless of course you want to a) buy them or b) dig them up from the internet.

[FlatNineSharpFive]

I personally use a combination of Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop, but Inkscape and GIMP are just as good (I prefer the Adobe products because I know them really well).

[greowhiste]

I was reading on the board when i first started FG looking for simple software to use, but in all of these programs, you still need textures, tokens, furniture, trees, etc. etc.

I highly recommend Photoshop (I also use Illustrator), because they are universal photo editing and illustration programs. If you learn them you have a darn good skill under your belt, but the really important part is that you can create beautiful maps.

However, I know Photoshop is an OCEAN of things to learn, i know I have barely gone diving in this ocean since it seems so infinitely deep, so I can understand reservations for not picking it up. I am totally willing to give people tips and tricks on this board for PS and AI, hand over some of my psd files so you can see what I did and how I did it etc. Feel free to PM me.

[kimba]

I don't like the fact that you are a) restricted to a certain page size and b) restricted to a certain grid size. If I'm trying to re-create a large dungeon from a publication, or if I'm just making a big map, I run out of room. Also, the program seems to hog my system resources. It's not so bad at first, but as I add detail and the map gets bigger, the computer starts to really bog down. Lastly, I don't like the fact that the basic software comes with really little in the way of tiles and such, unless of course you want to a) buy them or b) dig them up from the internet.

the easy solution is do what I do - do a room by room map - room a links to a pic of room b andn so on - this eliminates the need for one HUGE map.
also keeps the players gussing as to where a secret room may be. they need to do a little mapping themselves. I find that adds a little more realism to it.

[Deuce]

That's exactly how I do it Kimba.

Even though in FGII they've removed the ability for players to open up your map, and look at the whole thing there are still compelling reasons to do it room by room.

The players don't get the whole masked map. Yes it's masked, but you still know the basic shape of the map, which hints at where to look for secret doors.

You don't need to mask so much. I'm not a huge fan of masking (not sure if they improved masking in FGII or not) because I always make a mistake on how much to reveal, and I can't undo the mistake. I could always remove mask, but never put it back unless I masked the whole map again.

Room by room is, imho, a much better way to present graphical info for the players.

[greowhiste]

I agree, there should be a function to re-mask areas. This would be a great improvement since deleting a mask and then drawing the viewable area over again can be tedious is you mess up.

To not give away too much, I actually use a few layer masks myself in Photoshop. Where there's a secret door, i just keep the wall looking like itself and fade in the secret hallway beyond it just a bit (I usually give myself 3/4 of "rock beyond wall" that appears like the real thing, then 1/4 of the square is the secret passage). THen i just mask the area in FG around the walls out to around 3/4 past the wall line and they can't tell. If and when they discover it, there's really no mistaking the secret passage even though there is "wal-like" imagery there.

just how i've started doing things.

[kimba]

I also like the possibility that if they do not map it themselves or make a huge mistake on mapping that the players can become lost in a mazelike dungeon. if they are looking at the whole map... they can tell where they have been and where they want to go.

im my current adventure WLD i have resorted to masking the player map instead of a room by room deal. my players can go back right to where they missed a room and systematically clear the whole thing. While this is fine - it is too easy for them.

I am seriously considering going back to breaking up the map and doing it room by room. with how big the dungeon is - it may be too daunting though.

[richvalle]

I also like the possibility that if they do not map it themselves or make a huge mistake on mapping that the players can become lost in a mazelike dungeon. if they are looking at the whole map... they can tell where they have been and where they want to go.

im my current adventure WLD i have resorted to masking the player map instead of a room by room deal. my players can go back right to where they missed a room and systematically clear the whole thing. While this is fine - it is too easy for them.

I am seriously considering going back to breaking up the map and doing it room by room. with how big the dungeon is - it may be too daunting though.

Ufff, very daunting!

I also use the players map and just drop in the players tokens, mask the whole thing and let them go. I LOVE unmasking the area's as they travel around. No mapping! This alone is a reason to play by VT instead of around a table.

And NOW I can drop monsters onto the huge map and they will be hidden until the players get there. I can populate the whole thing and know what the players are moving towards just by looking at the map. Or, as the players ditter around with a lever or something, I can move tokens around trying to figure out where the guys would be at that time of day.

rv

[Lee S.]

For mapping, I've been using Dundjinni. I wish it were more....robust. I wish it offered more in the way of effects than it does.

I used to use CC2 pro for everything. It had a hand drawn quality to it. Dundjinni looks much more realistic. Ask AndyPan about the Briar Rose Airship map I conned him into making. It's absolutely gorgeous.

[grot]

I thought I'd point out that the new (for me) dungeon tile thingy from wizards is tailor made for quick and dirty mapping. Nothing as cool as dundjini but MAN is it fast for duplicating a map from a book. Just take a screenshot, crop it down and BOOM.
https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20061121t

[Griogre]

You may also find Dungeon Forge (https://www.dungeonmapping.com/df/public_html/) and the very dated but very easy to use Dungeon Crafter2 to be useful also. I see Dungeon Crafter 3 was just released here (https://www.dungeoncrafter3.com/).

[heruca]

Any reason you're not recommending Dungeon Crafter 3, Griogre? Or did you just not know it's been released? (or maybe the learning curve got steeper in v3?)

[Griogre]

Haven't used it yet. So I don't know anything about 3. I was just getting the sites. Have you used DC3?

Edit: I just downloaded and messed around with this. I would stick to the older DungeonCrafter2 for now. The new version is really a beta. Pretty nice so far and easy to use, but no save, doors, undo and only a 15x15 grid.

[Illrigger]

DC3 is REALLY nice, but for $90 it damned well better be. It's the only mapping app that allows you to easily work with curves, for one thing. And with the new version the maps can look as good as the Dundjinni ones can - without stitching multiple 8.5x11 maps together. It is a little harder to use, but if you take the time it's great.

[Griogre]

I think we are talking about different software, Illrigger. Are you talking about something in the Campaign Catographer line? I was talking the Free Dungeon Crafter III which is a tile based mapper.

[Dementia Five]

I agree with the Dungeon Forge posts... I think it is simple, elegant and it works quite well with a low learning curve. They have updated it's feature, and the name, to MapX.

That, along with Fractal Mapper (also free) and PhotoShop and I have all the mapping tools I need. For kicks, I also use a very nifty dungeon generator to save time:

https://www.aarg.net/~minam/dungeon.cgi

Hope this helps.

[Illrigger]

I think we are talking about different software, Illrigger. Are you talking about something in the Campaign Catographer line? I was talking the Free Dungeon Crafter III which is a tile based mapper.
Oh, sorry - yeah, I was talking about CC3/Dungeon Designer 3; I've used so many lately that I'm getting confused. :P

I messed with DC3 last night, actually - and it's crap at this point. Map sizes are fixed, and they're even smaller than Dundjinni. You can't scale objects yet, either.

DF/MapX are pretty much the best you can get overall, but they lack the ability to do round/curved/odd-shaped rooms (MapX does them, but really badly).

Overall, there's no prefect mapper out there. CC3/DD3 is as close as you get, but it's expensive as heck, and has a tough learning curve. Lets hope a better version of MapX shows up before long.

[garymichaelduke]

Hi,
I have downloaded the program to create the maps, but I am mystified by the instructions in your post. What do you use to take a screen shot and crop it down?

Duke

[Jej]

Hello everyone
first sorry if my english is a bit lousy as i'm from France.

OK, i really think about buying FG2. It will be to play for D&D4.

Since i'm a lazy person, i'd like to know how importing a map into FG2 works. Does my map has to be a specific size? How do you put a grid onto it? Can you just copy paste a map already made where the grid is already on (i'm thinking about WotC or Paizo made maps).

Since D&D 4 is very tactical, i'd really like a powerful tool to handle this.

Thanx for your replies :)
Jej

[richvalle]

Maps are really simple. You just put them into the Images directory and... you are done!

FG treats maps as images so all your pictures and maps go into the same place. If there is a grid on the map already it will of course show up with the image.

If there is no grid you can add one via FG and may want to try to do this even with a map that already has a grid on it to take advantage of some of the functions of FG (reach, size, ect).

Good luck.

rv

[Jej]

Ok, thanx for the quick answer :)
Now about the 'tokens' that represents PCs or NPCs. They will be resized so they fit on my map that i imported or will i have to do so?
Sorry for the stupid questions guys :)

[richvalle]

There are no stupid questions! :)

You can create a token from any image you can find that is suitable. I normaly use the the ones from the WoTC MM artwork.

What you want to do is make sure they scale to each other. i.e. I use 50x50 as Medium sized. So Large is 100x100 and Huge is 150x150 ect.

Some people like to use 36x36 as their Medium sized as it scales with the player tokens better (at least I think that is the reason they do it).

When you drop a token on the map you can scale it up or down and then lock down the token size. Any other token will assume the same scale.

Players you will want to drop in from the Combat Tracker as it brings over other information with it (size and reach). From the CT you can scale the tokens up or down in size using the mouse wheel.

Hope that helps.

rv

[Jej]

OK. I bought the soft, installed it. I have troubles so i'll post under the right forum

[Jej]

Regarding the tokens, i've read the documentation but :
- i imagine that putting all my monsters into one large bag of tokens can be a pain. and creating tons of bags for one kind of monsters can also be a pain. What do you usually do?
- about the size, you tell that the PC tokens are usually 36x36. That's in the system set in stone
- about the maps, ok i've managed to import one. But of course, when you import maps, they're all different size... so in a small map, the grids in it is usually bigger than in a big map. Are you guys using some kind of 'scale' for your maps? It may sound weird but i guess than else you have to resize your tokens all the time?
Thanx !!

[Goblin-King]

If you're working on a token set, the most important thing is to make them all to scale relative to each other. The 36x36 probably comes from the fact that the default autogenerated portrait tokens you get for PCs in the d20 ruleset are 30 pixels in size.

Once you decide on a size, you can scale them to your map the easiest by placing one on the map, zooming in or out on the map until the scale is right, and then selecting "Lock token scale" on the right click menu for the token. From then on, all new tokens will be scaled according to that setting and you can zoom in and out, maintaining the size of the token relative to the map scale.

You can use the combat tracker to scale individual tokens if necessary. See the online user guide (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/userguide/) for more information.

[Jej]

Thanx.
So for medium you'd go 36*36, 72*72 for large and so on?

[Moon Wizard]

Just as long as the dimensions are consistent, it doesn't matter what size they are. I use the Digital Adventures token packs for my games, and the Medium tokens in those packs are 70x70.

Cheers,
JPG

[Griogre]

Yeah, like moon_wizard said, what is important is you want all your tokens at the same size/scale. Many people use 50 pixel square tokens, I use 32 pixel size tokens and as as Tero mentioned the default tokens are at 30 pixels.

The reason the token size matters is you should scale maps so the five foot squares on them are at the size of your medium sized tokens or *smaller* they can't be larger because you can only zoom down a token not increase the size - except on the combat tracker and trust me, you don't want to have to adjust every token you place - its anoying, you have to do it every session and it means you have to place *every* token on the tracker even those for non combat encounters.

The size of your tokens will thus have a big effect on the scale of you maps which determines how much of the map is shown at any one time. IE small scale tokens mean you can show more of a map at once in the same area while bigger size tokens means you can show less of the map at once. This is the "pretty tokens" vs. "show larger area of the map at once" trade off.

Larger tokens look better but you may find it anoying to only be able to show a few rooms at once. On the other hand small tokens can be almost unreadable (though tool tips do ID them) but you can show most of a level at once and don't have to keep ajusting the map all the time. I encourage you to experiment with token sizes before you go out a make a bunch of them.

[Jej]

Thank youvery much with your inputs:)
I'll have a look at those pre-made tokens which are pretty nice priced compared to the burden of making them.
Side note : very nice community, it's really enjoyable )