Price increased?

[alfarobl]

I have noticed that several adventures that were like $8.99 are now $14. Even the adventure on sale used to be $7 and now it is $12 on the same sale week? What is going on?

Also the CSC is way overpriced. If we think about needed suplements we get up to $150 just to be able to play with minimum rules... probably Companion and 1 adventure will get you to $214. That is crazy after having to pay license... Guess Unity is a money sink or licensing is not enought profit and now all items go up? Very disatisfied with situation.

[Trenloe]

If you're not in the USA then Steam has regional pricing that can very often change. The pricing is set by Steam, based off the original pricing set by Mongoose Publishing - and can vary based off various parameters that Steam use to track their regional pricing index.

And also see here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?58680-Central-Supply-Catalog&p=515770&viewfull=1#post515770

[alfarobl]

If you're not in the USA then Steam has regional pricing that can very often change. The pricing is set by Steam, based off the original pricing set by Mongoose Publishing - and can vary based off various parameters that Steam use to track their regional pricing index.

I never said Steam... I am talking about Smiteworks Shop here and on Monday the Reach Adventure 2: Theories of Everything sale was on $7 you can see that on same promotional week... I was able to capture email to see that I was not dreaming and they increased prices.

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36494&stc=1&d=1591293922

[alfarobl]

Not only that... the new Reach Adventure 4: Last Flight of the Amuar was $12 and now is $20. You can check promotional email sent this week to verify.

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36496&stc=1&d=1591294260

[Trenloe]

I never said Steam... I am talking about Smiteworks Shop here
Thanks for clarifying.

Maybe MBM asking them about pricing made them realise they'd used the wrong prices on the adventures!

Hopefully those involved with the store will be able to answer.

[esmdev]

While i totally support MBM and want him to collect as much beer money as he can, I think that either Smiteworks or Mongoose need to consider the current market share bit with there pricing. Releasing and advertising a book at $11.99 on June 3 and the raising it to $19.99 on June 4 is questionable and perhaps even unethical. If you advertise something you are generally expected to sell it for that price. I probably wouldn't make a big deal about it had it changed a week from now but the day after the advertisement dropped and two days after it is released is just bad.

[ddavison]

Our person responsible for pricing these priced them incorrectly to match the sale price that was in effect at another vendor. These are supposed to be identified during a final review stage just before release but they were not. Once they were on sale, they remain on sale for the duration of the sale before they are corrected. Anyone who purchased at the lower rate is able to keep those additional discounts. If we had dropped the price for an item that was recently purchased, we would grant a 30-day window for people to get a refund of the higher price so they could repurchase at the reduced price. In this case, it is the opposite and so it doesn't apply.

Pricing strategy and market share are topics that numerous books and articles have been written about, but I will say that I frequently see conflicting strategies proposed as the best solution. We have hard evidence on 1700+ products specifically in the gaming industry to rely upon for data and we have had numerous pricing experiments. We share this information with our publishers to help them price content and it is often priced at print prices or PDF prices as our two most common scenarios. When you compare PDFs with an FG module, an FG module is superior to a PDF in many ways and is also significantly more complex to create. You can't simply export an FG file from an InDesign file like you can for a PDF. When a publisher sells a PDF, they sell directly from their website (in some case) or they pay a vendor for distribution. Beyond that, they receive 100% of any revenue from that sale. For an FG module, they have to pay a distribution outlet (Steam/Valve, Kickstarter, etc.), SmiteWorks and a community developer like MBM. If publishers feel like they are getting significantly less revenue from an FG sale than they do a PDF, there is very little incentive for them to license us to sell content.

Pricing at print prices evens these things out and allows all parties to get paid. It is at the expense of the customer receiving a higher price point, though. It does allow for periodic sales to be run on products. At the end of the day, each customer needs to determine their own value and whether or not the value makes sense for them personally. If the product later goes on sale, they can make another value determination at that time.

[ddavison]

That said, if you buy any of these modules this week, we will honor the sale price in the advertisement through Sunday (June 7) evening only. Forward your receipt to [email protected] and include the difference on the posted sale price and the price you paid. We will issue a partial refund for those amounts.

[alfarobl]

Sorry to hear that... IMHO the Ruleset cannot be at the same price as the Supply Catalog. As the adventure Marduk not at the same price as High and Dry. Before the price made sense as Marduk is a tiny module as intro to the system versus High & Dry that does the same with a lot more information.

If you don't want to look at those details as important then you can also check Pages to see the same:
Rulebook is 243pages vs Supply Catalog 152pages.
High&Dry 45pages vs Marduk 33pages.

Just content wise price doesn't make sense and as intro adventure something cheaper will make easier people to join the system with a different price point depending on monetary situation. Just my 2 cents.
Also a supplement that we already own in physical format you cannot expect to pay again for it specially with such a small importance like equipment. At least I hope that at some point they consider doing a Bundle with those at a better price so you get some incentive to spend money on it.

[ddavison]

Sorry to hear that... IMHO the Ruleset cannot be at the same price as the Supply Catalog. As the adventure Marduk not at the same price as High and Dry. Before the price made sense as Marduk is a tiny module as intro to the system versus High & Dry that does the same with a lot more information.

If you don't want to look at those details as important then you can also check Pages to see the same:
Rulebook is 243pages vs Supply Catalog 152pages.
High&Dry 45pages vs Marduk 33pages.

Just content wise price doesn't make sense and as intro adventure something cheaper will make easier people to join the system with a different price point depending on monetary situation. Just my 2 cents.
Also a supplement that we already own in physical format you cannot expect to pay again for it specially with such a small importance like equipment. At least I hope that at some point they consider doing a Bundle with those at a better price so you get some incentive to spend money on it.

If you are not in agreement about pricing based on content available in a physical product, I would recommend sharing that directly with any publisher. Since our price matches that physical product price, any reduction there would pass-through to FG.

[Trenloe]

Sorry to hear that... IMHO the Ruleset cannot be at the same price as the Supply Catalog. As the adventure Marduk not at the same price as High and Dry. Before the price made sense as Marduk is a tiny module as intro to the system versus High & Dry that does the same with a lot more information.

If you don't want to look at those details as important then you can also check Pages to see the same:
Rulebook is 243pages vs Supply Catalog 152pages.
High&Dry 45pages vs Marduk 33pages.

Just content wise price doesn't make sense and as intro adventure something cheaper will make easier people to join the system with a different price point depending on monetary situation. Just my 2 cents.
Also a supplement that we already own in physical format you cannot expect to pay again for it specially with such a small importance like equipment. At least I hope that at some point they consider doing a Bundle with those at a better price so you get some incentive to spend money on it.
As has been mentioned more than once, it's the publisher who sets the price.

Just to take one of your examples (the two adventures), here they are at the same price ($14.99 for a print copy) on the publisher website:

https://www.mongoosepublishing.com/us/marches-adventure-1-high-and-dry.html
https://www.mongoosepublishing.com/us/reach-adventure-1-marooned-on-marduk.html

If you have issues with content vs. price then you need to talk to the publisher first and foremost.

[alfarobl]

FYI the PDF price is $8.99. I have raised an issue with some advertised prices not matching prices on the shop. So I am entitled to say so here. You are all the time saying that I have issues but I prove you before that you were wrong. Issue was false advertisement of prices. I don't care but I can use my free speech to say my view of the situation. You seem eager to close this so please do so. But your post is wrong twice.

[ddavison]

FYI the PDF price is $8.99. I have raised an issue with some advertised prices not matching prices on the shop. So I am entitled to say so here. You are all the time saying that I have issues but I prove you before that you were wrong. Issue was false advertisement of prices. I don't care but I can use my free speech to say my view of the situation. You seem eager to close this so please do so. But your post is wrong twice.

You are welcome to post your thoughts on pricing here. As I explained in a few posts earlier, the price on our site is supposed to be set to match the print price for this publisher. If a publisher prices it at PDF price, they are choosing to make less revenue from sale of an FG module than they are from a PDF sale. Some publishers choose this route.

If your concern is that something with 152 pages of content is priced the same as something with 230 or so pages of content, then that is something that you should direct toward the publisher. The publisher will not see any comments you make about it here on our forums.

[Trenloe]

Consider this - we've spent a lot of our time trying to educate you on the details of pricing structures. The owner of the company went in to great detail in post #7.


I don't care but I can use my free speech to say my view of the situation.
I agree you can air your free speech. All we are trying to do is educate you on where it is best to do so to get some results. Or, are you just posting the same thing again and again because you think you have a captive audience?


You seem eager to close this so please do so.
None of us are eager to close the thread. We can do that whenever we want, but rarely do. As has been mentioned - you're better off asking the publisher about their pricing strategy. That's what we're trying to make clear to you - spend your time communicating with the publisher if you want to see pricing changes.


But your post is wrong twice.
I don't think that is very polite, nor is is contributing to a constructive discussion. I admit I was wrong when I assumed someone not in the USA was asking about pricing differences. After that I don't see how I'm "wrong twice" - I've posted direct links to show you the pricing strategy of the publisher - I can't see how that is wrong - unless you think the publisher is wrong also?. Like has been said many times - if you want to see prices changes (rather than just seeing your words saying the same thing again and again) then we (not just me) recommend you contact the publisher direct. Otherwise you're just wasting your time, and other people's time also. Your choice - spend your time wisely or not?

[esmdev]

You are welcome to post your thoughts on pricing here. As I explained in a few posts earlier, the price on our site is supposed to be set to match the print price for this publisher. If a publisher prices it at PDF price, they are choosing to make less revenue from sale of an FG module than they are from a PDF sale. Some publishers choose this route.

If your concern is that something with 152 pages of content is priced the same as something with 230 or so pages of content, then that is something that you should direct toward the publisher. The publisher will not see any comments you make about it here on our forums.

I am curious, as I know that Pirates of Drinax is in the pipeline. Do you intend to charge the $99 retail book price for that despite the PDF being $29.99?

[Trenloe]

Do you intend to charge the $99 retail book price for that despite the PDF being $29.99?
I hope so. Then the developer will stand a chance of getting a small amount of recompense for the hundreds of hours they will spend on the conversion.

If you'd rather pay $29.99 for the PDF and enter it yourself then you're welcome to.

Doug has explained in detail in this thread the pricing strategy. And, that in the end, it's up to the publisher.

People see value completely differently, and some people will always compare a Fantasy Grounds conversion with a PDF of the product. Where other FG users will realise that an FG conversion is so much more than just a PDF, and appreciate the work that goes into it. For me, it boggles the mind that nearly 600 pages of product converted into FG is expected to be sold for $29.99. The person who started this thread was expecting to pay around $9 for 45 pages - I'm sure you can extrapolate that based off 600 pages... I hope they'd see $99 as reasonable for 600 pages of content. But, like I say, people see value differently. There's always the good fallback - if you want to pay for a PDF then pay for a PDF, and go ahead and enter all the data into FG...

And consider this - everyone wants to see more content of their favourite games on FG, I certainly do. I'm sure you do too. If the very small number of FG developers/converters feel their work isn't being appreciated, is being under valued, or other such phrases that could be applied to this, then you'll soon see your FG conversions drying up.

It's a massive (and I mean MASSIVE) undertaking to convert something like this, I know how I'd feel if someone said the same thing about a conversion I'd spent months working on...

(Where's that dead horse? It's around here somewhere...)

[esmdev]

I hope so. Then the developer will stand a chance of getting a small amount of recompense for the hundreds of hours they will spend on the conversion.

If you'd rather pay $29.99 for the PDF and enter it yourself then you're welcome to.

Doug has explained in detail in this thread the pricing strategy. And, that in the end, it's up to the publisher.

People see value completely differently, and some people will always compare a Fantasy Grounds conversion with a PDF of the product. Where other FG users will realise that an FG conversion is so much more than just a PDF, and appreciate the work that goes into it. For me, it boggles the mind that nearly 600 pages of product converted into FG is expected to be sold for $29.99. The person who started this thread was expecting to pay around $9 for 45 pages - I'm sure you can extrapolate that based off 600 pages... I hope they'd see $99 as reasonable for 600 pages of content. But, like I say, people see value differently. There's always the good fallback - if you want to pay for a PDF then pay for a PDF, and go ahead and enter all the data into FG...

And consider this - everyone wants to see more content of their favourite games on FG, I certainly do. I'm sure you do too. If the very small number of FG developers/converters feel their work isn't being appreciated, is being under valued, or other such phrases that could be applied to this, then you'll soon see your FG conversions drying up.

It's a massive (and I mean MASSIVE) undertaking to convert something like this, I know how I'd feel if someone said the same thing about a conversion I'd spent months working on...

(Where's that dead horse? It's around here somewhere...)

I'm glad your cool that if we pay $100 for something we should be happy we get to pay $100 for it a second time.

While I do like to support MadBeardMan and have been buying for that very purpose, I am totally capable of entering what I need to run any traveller adventure module as they really aren't that complex (in comparison with D&D/Pathfinder modules).

I am aware that it takes time to convert things. I have converted hundreds worlds for Traveller and given it away for free. I do other modules for Traveller, I spend time trying to help people across the FG forums, counter R20 Traveller posts across the internet with pro FG Traveller posts, and I do it all for free. So by your reckoning I should feel under appreciated and quit. You response to my question is more likely to make me quit.

I'm sorry you feel like I'm beating a dead horse in a forum thread that Doug said we could literally use this thread for, but he did say it.

Anyways, I think I'll take your advise, feel under appreciated and quit

[Trenloe]

Anyways, I think I'll take your advise, feel under appreciated and quit
You know what it feels like then!

Doing community work is great, and I appreciate you doing it. But as soon as commercials are involved the dynamics change. It is why I resisted doing any PayPal or DMsGuild type thing for any of my FG community work that I've done over the last 9 years. I want to have control of what I do, do it when I want and produce to my own standard. As soon as you start selling something everyone has an opinion, and if they're paying for something they're entitled to an opinion. And even if they're not paying they have an opinion too, but you can ignore them! It frustrates me when it goes round and round and round that FG controls the price and that it should be the same as a PDF, or the old broken record of "I've paid for it already". The only company who makes money again and again for print, PDF and VTT products is the publisher. And, as Doug has described in this thread, they don't want to reduce their cut.

EDIT: And comparing your volunteer community work to someone doing commercial work, with all the constraints and pressure that brings, is simply not the same. Thanks for your community work, but it's not the same. And perhaps you thinking it's the same is part of the problem.

I suggest you get in touch with Mongoose Publishing, explain your position, and maybe they can see about reducing their cut (but keeping the FG/devs cut) for FG products that have already been bought in other formats, and organize how to do that. Because that is the only way this is going to change. Stop beating up on SmiteWorks about it, stop beating up on the FG devs about it. If you really want this to change, get in touch with the publisher!

[Maris666]

I always prefer to buy everything in Steam only through a sale. I think that the prices are simply too high. Also, I think that prices depend on the country and demand.

[rcruk]

I am loathe to be parted with my hard earned money and of course would like to be able to buy more stuff at a lower price (looking out for sales!) also had to think hard about buying books twice as I had a few when moving to FG.

However I came to the conclusion that for a few hours of my labour/money I save hundreds of hours in prepping for a game in FG. Costs me approximately a days work for a module which would take me weeks/possibly months to create and I would still have to buy the .pdf anyhow. In the scheme of things it's a good deal. Most of us only have limited time for Traveller. I have entered two hard copy scenarios that I own into FG - only short ones but it still took considerable time and effort (it was a useful process, I'd advise anyone to do it at least once. Really got to pick them apart).

If I pay for the bulk of the prep and keep my time for the tailoring, home-brew content and most importantly for the playing - great! The rules modules make sense to pay a decent amount for, with FG automation and integration also taken care of - pretty successfully so far, in my view - I don't expect to buy all the scenarios but will likely pick up all the core books.

As much as it's nice to have the hardcover books on the shelf - they'd be great if I ever return to tabletop - my solution to the 'buy twice' problem is to stop buying hard copies and continue to only buy the FG modules - then I only spend once (only limited by the speed that MBM can work!) As my players are global I'm unlikely to return to the table for now anyhow. If my purchases can continue to compensate MBM then great, wouldn't you expect the same. It's only a shame we can't afford two MBM's to get them up and running even faster!...

At the end of the day if you don't want it, and don't want to support someone doing it, you can always do it yourself. Most importantly I'd say, make sure you find the time to enjoy the game in which ever format you choose to acquire it.

R.

[MadBeardMan]

Buy things when you want folks. Just remember even though we've got all the hardbacks here to make sure it's on FG it all has to be done again. Some books don't take much time, ie Behind the Claw, about 100 hours I think, some books take ages CSC 400-500 hours total, some don't take that long, High Guard 80 hours but then it needs ruleset work.

Now adventures, they take very little time, maybe one of two evenings (8 - 10 hours), and 5 adventures sell for the same price as one book, yet done is half the time and no ruleset work.

So just remember, when you buy something, it's taken a lot of time but I get some beer money so we're all good!

Oh and don't forget that Lord Nanoc gives up his time to test things, and so on.

I love Traveller, long may it live!

Cheers,
MBM