Handling surprize as GM

[Takashima]

Hi.

I am beginning with DD5, and find myself a bit clumsy when having to check for surprize.
Do you have tips on how to do this smoothly when you GM?

(when on a real face to face table or via Fantasy ground)

Is there any kind of macro/code to automate or facilitate surprize detection?

[Zacchaeus]

It depends on how much of this you want in your game and often the composition of the party. Half of my lot clank about in heavy armour so they gave up trying to be stealthy after the first session (which was several months ago), and they picked up a staff of warning which basically means that they can't be surprised.

Technically each PC should roll a stealth check against every NPCs passive perception but you'd be there all day rolling dice - so I just use the party sheet dice roller. Input the DC as the passive perception of the NPC with the highest value and then make a group stealth check. Any PCs that pass get a surprise round.

For the players surprise I usually just narrate this without any dice rolls. If the PCs tell me they are being observant, listening at doors, being alert etc. then I'll assume that they aren't going to be surprised. If they forget to tell me then the may well be surprised.

[Takashima]

Mhh, thanks for the idea about using party sheet dice roller. SKipping dice rolls is also an option, for sure, though I am interested in how to do it per the rules in a smooth way.
But I am confused and not sure I understand it fully.
Am I correct that you assume/overrule that the *whole* NPC group will be surprized? (rules states some can be surprized and some not)

I also have some doubt if I got the rules fully right:

Let's take an example, 3 PC vs 2 NPC, NPC in ambush, trying to surprize the PCs.
And let's imagine following dice results in the four checks (steath vs Passive Perception):

GOB1 vs Yellow Elf: yellow elf failed to notice Gob1
GOB1 vs Green Valkyrie: Green Valkyrie detects Gob1
GOB1 vs Red Wizard: Red Wizard detects Gob1 (and needs food, badly!)
GOB2 vs Yellow Elf: yellow elf failed to notice Gob2
GOB2 vs Green Valkyrie: Green Valkyrie failed to notice Gob2
GOB2 vs Red Wizard: Red Wizard detects Gob2 (and shot the food!)

So, we have
- Yellow Elf did not detect *any* ennemy
- Green Valkyrie detected one of them, but not the other one
- Red Wizard detected all the ennemies

Per the rules, who will be surprized during the first round? Only yellow elf, or also Green Valkyrie?
(I would think only yellow elf, since Green Valkyrie is aware of at least some of the threats and is thus alert and attentive).

[Callum]

Per the rules, who will be surprized during the first round? Only yellow elf, or also Green Valkyrie?
(I would think only yellow elf, since Green Valkyrie is aware of at least some of the threats and is thus alert and attentive).

The rules say that "Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter." Therefore, in your example, only Yellow Elf will be surprised.

[Zacchaeus]

No, I think only Yellow Elf since they didn't spot anything. The other two would not be surprised and would act normally since they saw something; but Yellow Elf misses the first round of combat.

[Takashima]

Thanks, so that's clear and one is surprized only if he does not notice *any* threat at all. Spotting one ennemy is sufficient not to be surprized.

Having that in mind, how do you do to check this smoothly? I tend to get confused when doing this as GM.

1) PC ambushing NPC

ok, as GM, I can do one party stealth check , take lowest dice result, and compare that lowest result with each PP of the NPCs to see which NPC are surprized.
That's cool, easy and smooth enough to do as GM.
(thanks for the idea re. party sheet global check, Zacchaeus! :))

2) NPC ambushing PC

Here, I don't see easy way to do it, as there are no "NPC group check" feature (unless if I am missing it?) to do similar checks in that direction.
ANy idea/tip? some smart coding that could help?
Maybe some feature where GM could select a few NPC and in one click roll stealth check for each of them, so we could take lowest results and compare with PP of each PC to see which PC is surprized.
It possible to code something like that? Would love to have such feature / shortcut.

[GavinRuneblade]

2) NPC ambushing PC

Here, I don't see easy way to do it, as there are no "NPC group check" feature (unless if I am missing it?) to do similar checks in that direction.
ANy idea/tip? some smart coding that could help?
Maybe some feature where GM could select a few NPC and in one click roll stealth check for each of them, so we could take lowest results and compare with PP of each PC to see which PC is surprized.
It possible to code something like that? Would love to have such feature / shortcut.

Here is the official rule from the SRD:

The GM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the GM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone Hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn’t notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.
Lets say a party of three PCs with perceptions of 9, 12, and 16 vs a group of three goblins (+6 stealth) and 2 hobgoblins (+1 dex). Me, I would roll 5d20 (either type "/die 5d20" or right click the d20 and select the 5x and drop into chat) It will appear invisibly, then I take them in order first three are the goblins, last two are the hobs. Odds are the hobs are spotted, but the dude who dumped wisdom might be in trouble.

Keep in mind you can do these rolls before the game when you prep the encounter. And if you have your PC's passive perceptions it only takes a second to check results.

[Takashima]

Keep in mind you can do these rolls before the game when you prep the encounter. And if you have your PC's passive perceptions it only takes a second to check results.

Arf, silly, I never thought about that pre-game roll:D
So, I roll all the 5 stealth checks in advance, take the lowest one, write it down with the encounter notes, and during play, compare it to the PP of each PC. Any PC failing to spot that "most badly hidden" NPC is suprized.
Thanks, very good tip!

[Griogre]

Personally I usually use passive stealth vs. passive perception unless they are really trying to be stealthy or watchful - it speeds things up a lot at the start of combat.

[Takashima]

Hi Giogre.

By passive stealth, you mean 10 + DEX modifier?
Thanks for the idea as well.

[Griogre]

Yes, base 10 + Dex mod + proficiency if applicable (what FG calls Stealth on the skill tab + 10). Generally in most of my games nobody but a scout type is being particularly stealthy. I'll have the scout roll once until the next encounter and use that roll but the rest all use passive stealth 10 + Stealth Skill. If they have disadvantage on stealth, ie heavy armor, subtract 5 from the passive stealth amount and if they have advantage on stealth, ie invisible add 5. This is all on pg 175 of the PH.

Using passive "rolls" speeds play in the same way passive perception and insight do. You can also use group stealth checks from 4E. You use these where the whole party is trying to do something where they can help each other out - you drop the DC a "level" (about 5) and see if the majority of the party passes the check - if so they succeed. I use that in scenarios where the whole party is trying to sneak into or out of a camp, ect.

I think a lot of people overlook the rule on dim light and where you have disadvantage on perception - this always applies to creatures using dark vision (who see as if in dim light). Thus its easier to surprise groups only using dark vision.