Character Creation Issues

[Alancorp]

Right now, there doesn't seem to be any rules/structure creating a character. It doesn't limit you to the 5 attribute points and 12 skill points when creating a new character. It should handle it the way savaged.us does where it gives you an alert when you over allocate and the proper way to do it would be to add an advancement and use that to add additional points.

Also I am able to add any edge I want without having the requirements. When I add attractive, it counts as 1 edge on the character summary. And then when I add very attractive, it replaces attractive on the sheet but then the character summary still shows I have only used/have 1 edge. And then I'm able to add attractive back on to show both attractive and very attractive and now shows 2 edges. I can add any edge regardless of my rank or if my attribute die is too low.

IMO, There really needs to be improvements on character creation rules.

[Doswelk]

Right now, there doesn't seem to be any rules/structure creating a character. It doesn't limit you to the 5 attribute points and 12 skill points when creating a new character. It should handle it the way savaged.us does where it gives you an alert when you over allocate and the proper way to do it would be to add an advancement and use that to add additional points.
IMO, There really needs to be improvements on character creation rules.

Why?

If you have a piece of paper as your character sheet that does not check you character is valid, Fantasy Grounds is not a character creation program, if you want that use Hero Labs or Savaged.US

Fantasy Grounds is a Virtual Table Top, how do you make it validate every one of the hundreds of roleplay systems out there? In that fact how do you make it support the various Setting Rules that already contradict your issues. I run a game where PCs get 6 attribute points and 15 skill points when creating a character.

The development team is small and I'd rather they focus on mkaing FGU/FGC the best VTT out there (not hard as in my biased opinion it already is), if you want to create valid characters then use software to do just that.

What we really need is a way to import PCs from Savaged.us to FGU/FGC :)

[zarlor]

What we really need is a way to import PCs from Savaged.us to FGU/FGC :)

Actually we do have that (unofficially) since that's what the NPC Maker extension can do. You just copy and paste the stat block from there (or any source that can show you a stat block, like Hero Lab) and you've got an NPC. Then drag that NPC over to the PC window and, viola, you've got a PC! They usually need some clean-up but at least once they are in, they're in. That being said having all of that available directly in FG would be nice but we'd need to have a way to easily pull in fan-made extensions to cover all of the settings and/or house rules so it would, no doubt, be a LOT of work set up in FG, and in that sense I would agree it probably shouldn't be a priority.

[Alancorp]

Why?

If you have a piece of paper as your character sheet that does not check you character is valid, Fantasy Grounds is not a character creation program, if you want that use Hero Labs or Savaged.US

Fantasy Grounds is a Virtual Table Top, how do you make it validate every one of the hundreds of roleplay systems out there? In that fact how do you make it support the various Setting Rules that already contradict your issues. I run a game where PCs get 6 attribute points and 15 skill points when creating a character.

The development team is small and I'd rather they focus on mkaing FGU/FGC the best VTT out there (not hard as in my biased opinion it already is), if you want to create valid characters then use software to do just that.

What we really need is a way to import PCs from Savaged.us to FGU/FGC :)

Well, I guess I consider the Savage Worlds Ruleset module is a "ruleset" and character creation is a major part of the ruleset. And fantasy grounds does give you the functionality to create a character, so to me it is a character creation program. I see plenty of tutorials online for creating characters for Fantasy Grounds (mostly for D&D 5e) so it's an important component of the program. As for custom starting traits, I like the way savaged.us does it where it will allow you to add how many attribute and skill points you want but it keeps track of it and gives you a warning that is over allocated. And it gives you the proper way to do it by going to advancements and adding the extra points that way. For those that want to override the rules for custom settings, I would have an option in the settings to turn that off if they wish. And if it is a setting rule that is official and purchased thru FantasyGrounds then I would assume when you load that module, it would implement whatever the starting skill and attribute points should be for that setting.

I understand resources are limited and you have to pick and choose what you spend your time on. But, I think it would be very useful functionality for the program, especially for beginners of the Savage Worlds ruleset.

Also wanted to comment on this quote:
"If you have a piece of paper as your character sheet that does not check you character is valid, " That is true. Also when you roll real dice, the dice doesn't check what modifiers should be applied or what edges you have. :) But fantasy grounds does that for you. It's a tool to make our lives easier by keeping track of things and automatically implementing rules. I think the tool can definitely handle character creation rules but I understand it is probably low on the priority list.

[IceBear]

Yes...it does do a lot for us automagically so when it doesn't it can be jarring. I've only been using it since March 17th and generally have found when it doesn't do something it's because there's a level of decision making that can't be done without a lot of work and resources. The Rock n Roll edge is one example...it needs to know if you moved or not and while I guess you could tie it to token movement on the grid but that would require a lot of code that doesn't exist and then it can't know that you were going to shoot and then move.

While enforcing character creation isn't as complex there's still settings that aren't standard so it's left for the GM to verify.

[TheDog]

Alancorp just in case you dont know about this there is some logic in the current version.

On the Character sheets go to the Traits tab, in the Advances pane there is a + press it and a mini window displays some stats.

The skills add up to 17, but thats fine as 5+ 12 you can enter is 17.

Hope that helps.

[IceBear]

But it could be 20 in settings like Rifts...good to know about that though...didn't know

[TheDog]

IceBear you probably realised it gives a running a total, it also does Hindrances of a fashion.

[IceBear]

No...didn't even know that feature was there. But yeah looks like a quick way to validate. Nice tip

[Doswelk]

Yes...it does do a lot for us automagically so when it doesn't it can be jarring.

I think that's the issue for me but the other way around, I have been using FG since 2005 and Savage Worlds since 2007 there was no automation (other than dice acing and wild dice) back then, Ikael spoils you...

[Alancorp]

Alancorp just in case you dont know about this there is some logic in the current version.

On the Character sheets go to the Traits tab, in the Advances pane there is a + press it and a mini window displays some stats.

The skills add up to 17, but thats fine as 5+ 12 you can enter is 17.

Hope that helps.

Yeah, I did see that. It is somewhat helpful but could definitively be built on top of. This was where I noticed if you first take the attractive edge, it shows 1 edge used, but if you then take the very attractive edge it is smart enough to replace the attractive edge but then it still only shows 1 edge so the logic there is just to show you what you currently have but doesn’t take into account the advancement calculations. Thanks though.

[fubeca150]

I think that's the issue for me but the other way around, I have been using FG since 2005 and Savage Worlds since 2007 there was no automation (other than dice acing and wild dice) back then, Ikael spoils you...

It's that spoiling that just had me switch from Roll20 to FGU, and from GURPS to SW.

[Alancorp]

It's that spoiling that just had me switch from Roll20 to FGU, and from GURPS to SW.

Don’t get me wrong, I think SWADE with FGU is great and the best VTT out there. I appreciate all the effort put into continuous improvements and the short time I’ve been here, Ikael and the rest of the dev team are great and push out new things all the time. But there are always more improvements to be made. If only we can clone the entire team and have more resources.

[damned]

There is always a list of things that the devs would like to do next and another list (often longer) that GMs and Players might like to see.
Even when something is a good idea it may not get done because the difficulty id higher than the perceived value (at that time at least) or there are just other things that have a higher priority on the devs list.
It never hurts to make suggestions just bear in mind that there are many reasons why something might not get done.

[rodney418]

I definitely think the best way forward would be to enable importation from Savaged.us. There's no point in reinventing the wheel, and that site already does it all so well.

[Doswelk]

I definitely think the best way forward would be to enable importation from Savaged.us. There's no point in reinventing the wheel, and that site already does it all so well.

Actually just found out it already works!

Below is a text export of a character for Deadlands Lost Colony:

Jesse Cain
Seasoned Female Human, Pilot
Description
Whether something needs to get to the opposite side of One or the Belt, you’re the person to get it there. The job isn’t always on the level, but that’s never really bothered you.
Attributes: Agility d8, Smarts d6, Spirit d6, Strength d4, Vigor d6
Skills: Athletics d6, Common Knowledge d6, Driving d8, Electronics d6, Fighting d6, Language (Native) d8, Notice d6, Persuasion d4, Piloting d8, Repair d4, Shooting d6, Stealth d4
Pace: 6; Parry: 5; Toughness: 9 (4)
Hindrances: Greedy (minor), Overconfident, Ruthless (minor)
Edges: Ace, Combat Reflexes, Gravitic Acclimation, Luck, Quick, Steady Hands
Armor: Body Armor
Weapons: Unarmed (Range Melee, Damage Str), Sawed-Off Double- Barrel (Scattergun) (12g) (Range 5/10/20, Damage 1-3d6, ROF 2)
Gear: Ammo: 5.56, .30-30, .30-06 shotgun shells, Commlink
Language: Native (native, d8)
Current Wealth: $5


Special Abilities
Adaptable: Humans begin play with any Novice Edge of their choosing. They must meet its Requirements as usual.


Starting Bennies: 4
Advances


Edge: Gravitic AcclimationRaise Skills: Athletics/PilotingRaise Skills: Driving/FightingEdge: Combat ReflexesEdge: Steady Hands
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Current Load: 14 (20)
Books In Use: Savage Worlds: Adventure Edition, Deadlands: Lost ColonyValidity: Character appears valid and optimal

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Opened FG and created SW campaign with NPC maker, clicked create NPC this is what I got:

35212
So if I had removed
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Current Load: 14 (20)
Books In Use: Savage Worlds: Adventure Edition, Deadlands: Lost ColonyValidity: Character appears valid and optimal

I reckon it would have been perfect!

Finally make NPC a wildcard (could have done this by putting '?' in front of name) then drag to Character selection screen.

[zarlor]

Yep, just like I mentioned earlier :) That can be done with any statblock output, mind you. However I would note that to really get it right you also need to do some clean-up. I like to drag-and-drop the actual skills and hindrances over from their actual entries, for example. Especially for Edges and Hindrances since many of them are now set-up properly with effects keywords, something most of those stat-blocks won't include, things like that. Still, it make creation in a program like saveged.us or Hero Lab quite useful and getting something very workable for importing into Fantasy Grounds. I would also add that while savaged.us is great for what it does, it does lack a LOT of extra material. Having some kind of interface for "fan created" add-ons for it would be very helpful if that were possible.