Thinking about switching to Fantasy Grounds

[Sarteck]

Hello, FG.

I currently run a game on another popular VTT site, but I'm getting rather annoyed with many aspects about it. Even after dropping a bunch of money on it, that annoyance has built up enough that I'm strongly considering dropping my losses and switching to Fantasy Grounds, which seems to be the other leader in VTT gaming. After having a peek through your Support forum and seeing questions and problems actually being addressed (and not too many in the first place TO address), I'm even more interested.

I would like to give my players the best gaming experience possible, and have a couple questions.

The VTT I currently use is browser-based and was working adequately until somewhat recently. Unfortunately, "something" changed between my Session Zero (where we all tested things out to make sure it was working properly) and my Session 1 a week later, and some of the players were experiencing slowness, bugginess, or even inability to load the game at all. Am I correct in assuming, since Fantasy Grounds is application-based, such issues would be far less common? Are there times when Fantasy Ground is just down for everyone? If so, how often is this? I really like the Dynamic Lighting aspect of my current VTT, but had to TURN OFF that feature during my Session 1 just so that some of my players could load the game. Does FG have a similar function? The VTT I use also allows for custom macros to make some tasks as easy as clicking a button (for example, changing the token of a druid and her associated character sheet to that of a badger when she shifts forms, or for rolling Initiative for a group of monsters without having to go into each individual sheet, and similar stuff). Does FG provide that? Is there a performance trade-off for the size of a game, or does FG pretty much perform stably without slowdowns and crashes?

You guys probably know which VTT I'm talking about, but I don't know if it's against the ToS to mention it or not... but if you do, any other advice or information you could offer concerning switching platforms would be greatly appreciated.

[Zacchaeus]

Hi Sarteck welcome to FG.

I haven't used Roll 20 so I cannot really comment on it. I can only comment on FG.

FG Unity does have Line of Sight - note this is not dynamic Lighting in that the LoS is infinite. It isn't limited by character vision or light source ranges. This can be simulated somewhat by using the mask in conjunction with the Los feature. FG Classic does not have LoS but does have a mask mode.

In Classic the host of the game is the DMs computer; so as long as the DM is up and running players can join. However the DM may well have to forward ports on their router in order to be able to host successfully. Unity is the same but in addition it has a cloud brokering feature which allows for connection via a SW server. This allows people who are unable to use Classic because they are unable to forward ports; are on an IPv6 network or have other networking issues that prevents them from successfully hosting a game. So in answer to your question in Classic there is never any loss of service; in Unity potentially if the cloud server is down then you may have issues with the brokering. Since Unity is still in Beta it is difficult to say whether the cloud server going down will be a thing. For the last few weeks it has been very stable.

As for macros FG doesn't have the same kind of macro that Roll20 has; it does it differently. Natively the changing of the Druid portrait in your example isn't built into FG but there are at least two community extensions which do allow this; one is available directly from the forums and the other is a paid for product available via the DMsGuild.

FG is an extremely powerful tool with a great deal of built in functionality - especially for the 5e, 2e and Pathfinder 2 rulesets.

My advice is that you should think about taking out a subscription for an Ultimate license and give the software a whirl. If it's not for you then SW offer a full 30 day money back guarantee and so you can get the cost of the sub back at the end of your month. If you do like it then you can either continue the sub or buy the one off licence.

Lots a video links in this post here which should help you get a feel for what the software can do. https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?27296-Guides-videos-and-other-helpful-information

[Valyar]

Now, the performance problems with Roll20 are not something new and for sure occur more often during the corona-time, but I would say that this is the least of the issues with the platform. The lack of innovation for years, the same bland interface and clunky way to manage your assets was the main reason I switched to FG yers ago. Also the subscription for gimmicks and more storage (which is super cheap nowadays...) is no-no for me.

Fantasy Ground is excellent hosted by you platform and if there is game system that is officially supported by FG, it is the best choice. The most popular ones have really good automation and excellent modules if you want to chip in money, but also you can very easily create and export your own content for personal use. There are a lot of very good community rulesets that support other popular games. Depending on your computer literacy you might find the interface super easy to use or not. Give it a go with the demo version that you can evaluate. I am absolutely sure it will worth your time

If you play games that are not supported by FG, there are two rulesets - CoreRPG and MoreCore that provide you a lot of flexibility to have different rolls to address your needs and create your charsheet without programming experience. They are great but, to properly mod them to look and feel like polished ruleset and charsheet you need to do some coding. FG is not friendly towards development and will take much more time compared to other platforms that use modern web technologies such as Foundry VTT or even Roll20. So in FG there is no macro or easy to access automation.

[Hurske]

Some other info also to add, initiative can be done with two clicks of a mouse, you can roll for every participant in the battle at once , only the enemies, and you can have it to where it is group initiative, or individual.

You mentioned that the druid shape shifting, I use an extension here for my druid player, that changes the stats as well as the picture, and HP with mouse click, makes it very convenient.

[Sarteck]

Thanks to all of you, I really appreciate the feedback. I think I'll go ahead and spring for a month of Ultimate as suggested, just to try stuff out. I've been going through some of the links in the thread Zacchaeus linked to; it's a lot to take in, and I'm sure I will understand it a lot better if I can actually work with the application first-hand. I can already tell that it's going to be a much different experience than Roll20, and will have to compare and contrast features for myself. From the videos I have watched, it seems to offer a lot that Roll20 doesn't (and probably can't, honestly), but it also seems quite a bit harder to customize the experience.

Fortunately, I'm no stranger to either coding (parsed languages anyways, not too hot on compiled languages) or networking (I work as a systems administrator for a webhosting company), so I hope to be able to adequately navigate it. I'm really excited to hear that it's not a centralized hosting environment that everyone has to share (as mentioned, what with the Coof going around, Roll20's servers are bogged).

Thanks again; I'll probably have a lot more questions, and will place them in the appropriate forums if I'm unable to find a satisfactory answer on my own.

[JohnD]

Welcome. Hope FG works out for you.

[LordEntrails]

Welcome! I think you'll really like it here. And don't let yourself get frustrated. You can take free classes at FG College and always can drop in here or on Discord with any questions.

[Sarteck]

Welcome! I think you'll really like it here. And don't let yourself get frustrated. You can take free classes at FG College and always can drop in here or on Discord with any questions.

I hope it doesn't boil down to "taking classes," I've been out of school for decades, and even then I was more of a self-learner, heh.

I went ahead and sprang for the Ultimate 30-day sub earlier today, and have been toying around with FGU. I'm really impressed with the responsiveness both host-side and client-side, but I have to admit people weren't joking when they said there's a bit of a learning curve (at least so far on the DM side of things). Definitely something your average Joe couldn't sit down and use intuitively. I'm not afraid at all of teaching myself more about how to use it, but I'm hoping the player side of things will be a bit easier. (Of course, I won't find that out until I actually get a test campaign up and running.)

[Beemanpat]

I haven't taken classes but I bet there is some gems to had there. There is a learning curve. I watch YouTube videos. Search the forums. Players do have it easier so if I'm struggling with something most times I'll make a quick ruling to keep th game moving and the player will search for the answer online then share it so we'll all hopefully remember it next time.
The biggest and bestest asset is right here. People on here are so helpful. Cant find it in a search on here just ask.
Anyway my 2 cents. Hope you like it and welcome to the forums.

[JohnD]

I hope it doesn't boil down to "taking classes," I've been out of school for decades, and even then I was more of a self-learner, heh.

I went ahead and sprang for the Ultimate 30-day sub earlier today, and have been toying around with FGU. I'm really impressed with the responsiveness both host-side and client-side, but I have to admit people weren't joking when they said there's a bit of a learning curve (at least so far on the DM side of things). Definitely something your average Joe couldn't sit down and use intuitively. I'm not afraid at all of teaching myself more about how to use it, but I'm hoping the player side of things will be a bit easier. (Of course, I won't find that out until I actually get a test campaign up and running.)

If you have someone who knows what they're doing giving you a walk through, you can learn enough to be a competent player in about 75 minutes (assuming you have average 21st century computer acumen). The DM side takes longer than that, but a good player base will form a solid foundation for the DM stuff.

[LordEntrails]

I've run plenty of one-shots for folks who have never used FG, a few who have never played RPGs. Almost all of them pick it up within the first hour of actual play. For all of these they have pre-gen characters that I set up, so I can point them to where the things are they need. GMing can take a lot more, but you don't have to use it all.

Learn what you need to get started, then learn a little more. Don't try to learn it all before your first session. Remember, How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

[Sarteck]

If you have someone who knows what they're doing giving you a walk through, you can learn enough to be a competent player in about 75 minutes (assuming you have average 21st century computer acumen). The DM side takes longer than that, but a good player base will form a solid foundation for the DM stuff.


I've run plenty of one-shots for folks who have never used FG, a few who have never played RPGs. Almost all of them pick it up within the first hour of actual play. For all of these they have pre-gen characters that I set up, so I can point them to where the things are they need. GMing can take a lot more, but you don't have to use it all.

Learn what you need to get started, then learn a little more. Don't try to learn it all before your first session. Remember, How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

Thank you both. In all honesty, you're probably correct in that I'll need some aid. I'm going to try to eat as much of the elephant as I can, though, so I at least have an idea about what it is I want to know, hahaha. I'm certainly no genius by any stretch of the imagination, though, and don't hold any illusions that I can do it all without any kind of help.


I haven't taken classes but I bet there is some gems to had there. There is a learning curve. I watch YouTube videos. Search the forums. Players do have it easier so if I'm struggling with something most times I'll make a quick ruling to keep th game moving and the player will search for the answer online then share it so we'll all hopefully remember it next time.
The biggest and bestest asset is right here. People on here are so helpful. Cant find it in a search on here just ask.
Anyway my 2 cents. Hope you like it and welcome to the forums.

They really are. The very first response to this thread has a link to a thread with a directory of many helpful threads and videos on both specific tasks and generic use. I was also able to find an additional YouTube series that really has a nice step-by-step-from-nothing tutorial for Unity (the aforementioned directory is nice, but seems to lack that, unless I missed it) by a user called Stoehovve. Very informative for a person like me, though it might take a few days to watch and take in all of the info. (I'm just now starting the 7th video of 22, and I skipped the first three, hah.)

I'll toss a link (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrOi-1TKL6y0zdFbhX2j2TVL0PvUkbKW1) if anyone is interested.

EDIT: Meant that link for the general "you," not specifically "you," so I changed to to "anyone." XD
EDIT2: Also, for anyone reading, it's been brought to my attention that the playlist linked above does have at least some discrepancies/errors. If you happen to use it on your own, be aware of that and have FGU open so it's easier to follow along and spot them. (Or read the helpful comments left by viewers.)

[DK1138]

I’ve owned FG and only recently started DMing and using FG properly. While the current global situation gave rise to the opportunity to play the learning curve also held me back. I mucked around starting to make my own modules etc but trial and error really played a big part. I’m now four sessions in and the players pretty much know what’s what now, every session I try to inform them of a new thing in FG and a new D&D Rule that we haven’t used yet. Ultimately fun is the main thing and if you figure out enough to run your first session you’ll be in business.

[Sarteck]

Just a heads up (mostly for those from Roll20 that I linked to this thread), FantasyGrounds staff quickly replied to my e-mail asking for credit on my 30-day Ultimate sub so that I could just switch it to the one-time purchase.

You guys sold me on it; it's a great product, and I'm in.

[Beemanpat]

Glad you switched. Welcome. If need help with anything just ask.

[Sarteck]

Natively the changing of the Druid portrait in your example isn't built into FG but there are at least two community extensions which do allow this; one is available directly from the forums and the other is a paid for product available via the DMsGuild.
Hi, could you link me to both of these? I'd really appreciate it.

Also, does any one a list of "must-have super-special-chocolate-coated-goodness" extensions one should consider using?

[Beemanpat]

Hi, could you link me to both of these? I'd really appreciate it.

Also, does any one a list of "must-have super-special-chocolate-coated-goodness" extensions one should consider using?

I recommend these, these are new and was just pit on the dmguild worth it.
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?57411-5E-Extensions-by-KentMcCullough

This is the specific one your asking about that is on dmsguild.
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/261591/?affiliate_rem=878507
Its one of three. The other 2 are called "One Click More" and "Dm Tools"
They are nice.

EDIT: Just wanted to give a bit of caution. Don't go and add bunch of extensions at once. Some of them may not like each other and corrupt data. The ones I listed above play well as far as I know. But do make back up regularly just incase.
EDIT: Not sure if these work for FGU.

[Weissrolf]

The highest fence to jump for me was getting my players to install the client on their systems. At least with "Classic" + Ultimate license there is no need for them to create any account whatsoever, which is a plus versus platforms like Roll20. On the other hand they may need to create a voice chat account on a service like Discord, so there is that. People seem to prefer using a browser based VTT account instead of running software on their computer. I hope that "Unity" will not force demo users to create an account.

Once that hurdle is overcome players got into FG easy enough, either because they learned the UI alongside the GM (myself) or because the GM knew the UI good enough to give concise instructions on what to do. It likely helps a lot to have players who are somewhat acclimated to use desktop computer programs. And once everyone gets used to all the automation (especially hit/damage rolls) they usually like that they get rid of all the "accounting" work an at-the-table printed sheet usually brings along. It's still a lot of clicking for crunch heavy systems, though.

[Sarteck]

Ended up one of my players was using Linux, and seems FGU's not out on that for the moment. Fortunately, I happen to have an extra bit of cash, found out she lives an hour south of me, and am sending her a cheap Windows laptop. XD

[Beemanpat]

Ended up one of my players was using Linux, and seems FGU's not out on that for the moment. Fortunately, I happen to have an extra bit of cash, found out she lives an hour south of me, and am sending her a cheap Windows laptop. XD

You are a great DM.

[Weissrolf]

One of my players is using Linux, too. I set up a virtual Windows machine on my Synology NAS for him to remote into. Works quite well with Classic, Unity is too much for the weak NAS processor. In the end your player could set up a virtual machine on her Linux computer and just run Windows inside of that.

[Sarteck]

Just a follow-up.

Our second Fantasy Grounds Session (6th session total, including our Session Zero) went swimmingly. I was kind of intimidated the first session, partly for being an inexperienced DM, and partly because I'm inexperienced with FGU. But I think I'm getting the hang of both, a lot.

Every time there was a moment of dead air, I was worried I was not entertaining my players, that they'd get bored while I loaded battles up or read through bits when I couldn't remember if that door was locked or trapped, but they stuck by me like champs.

I do have a somewhat overzealous player that likes to explore a bit too far without waiting up for me (or the rest of the party, hah), so one of the features I'm most waiting to come to unity is one Classic already has, and that's the "Lock Tokens" thing. Other than that, I am very happy with FGU. Even in Beta, it's exceeded expectations.

[LordEntrails]

I do have a somewhat overzealous player that likes to explore a bit too far without waiting up for me (or the rest of the party, hah), so one of the features I'm most waiting to come to unity is one Classic already has, and that's the "Lock Tokens" thing. Other than that, I am very happy with FGU. Even in Beta, it's exceeded expectations.
When this comes up, I always recomend that you let the players move as they want out of combat. If they move 'too fast' and leave the party behind, thats fine. Just have an over powered encounter ready to drop on the map. All you have to do is say, "ok, hold on a moment, Speedy has encountered something." Then you drop the dragon, lich, or storm giant on the map and CT and let the players run away (or engage in combat and die). Then don't have it follow the party and it's gone when the party returns together.

Your players will quickly learn not to be Speedy.

[Sarteck]

When this comes up, I always recomend that you let the players move as they want out of combat. If they move 'too fast' and leave the party behind, thats fine. Just have an over powered encounter ready to drop on the map. All you have to do is say, "ok, hold on a moment, Speedy has encountered something." Then you drop the dragon, lich, or storm giant on the map and CT and let the players run away (or engage in combat and die). Then don't have it follow the party and it's gone when the party returns together.

Your players will quickly learn not to be Speedy.

Speedy is kinda being one of those gotta go fast guys, and he's... not stealthy... and opens unlocked, untrapped, non-magical, regular wooden doors with a sledgehammer when the party wants a bit more reconnaissance...

I've been a bit lenient, but maybe I do need to put the fear of death into him. Have him wander off, put the rest of the party in battle, give him a chance to see the traps I know he probably won't look for, get impaled on spikes in a 10-foot pit trap. Druid and Bard will be too busy fighting to save his life, hope he saves versus the poison so he's not paralyzed and easy food for the diseased GIant Rat...

[LordEntrails]

I've been a bit lenient, but maybe I do need to put the fear of death into him. Have him wander off, put the rest of the party in battle, give him a chance to see the traps I know he probably won't look for, get impaled on spikes in a 10-foot pit trap. Druid and Bard will be too busy fighting to save his life, hope he saves versus the poison so he's not paralyzed and easy food for the diseased GIant Rat...
I'd suggest the first time you are not lenient isn't deadly, but a solid learning lesson that next time it might be deadly. Remember, when you change the way you have NPC's behave or how things happen, you have to give the players a chance to learn you are changing things up. Don't punish, instruct :)