Really Struggling With FG

[GM Hedgehogs]

So i bought FG a while back, initaly for the purpose of an easier to use battlemap when playing games in person, displaying on a TV, but since have been using it occasionaly with my party to play over distance as we are now all in various locations around the UK and are unable to meet. When we were playing with FG, it realy didnt feel like the upgrade i hoped for, which was to smooth out fighting. The UI and just general use felt so clunky and hard to get arround, and lots of my party are totaly new to DnD, so throwing in a difficult software just made life harder. Then playing over distance added to the problem as i was having to explain the details i knew over voice chat. We havent played for a while now, i put it down to my training wearing me out (currently studdying) and meaning i had no time to prepare a session, but to be honest, i feel like FG burnt me out of wanting to play dnd cause i was dreading the task of using it.

I have really tried to work with FG, tried to learn the software and get to a point where i could use it, but i havent and i feel like it might be ruining my love of dnd. I jumped into the ultimate eddition, buying all the books we needed, and now i feel like it has been a waste. A lot of my party play other games via Roll 20 and say, although Fantasy grounds has more functionality, the fact they feel they cant access it puts them off it. I wonder if i should have bought something that was more just a visual battle map (like the recent tale spire) cause i dont want to move away form playing with actual dice and sheets.

I want to keep pushing with FG, and try and make it work, but because of how little i feel it has helped me i just cant. It feels like a slog and i think its sapped the fun out of dnd for me. I dont really know what the purpose of this was, i guess it was to get it off my chest and see if anyone has any advice. Its too late to refund, ive sunk too much time into it, so i dont know what to do. Should i abandon FG and try and find something else that is easier, or should i keep smashing my head against the wall until it finaly breaks and i understand it?:cry:

[Valyar]

Ask the people to read the user manual and then spend some time with the ruleset of choice. Learn the tool and it will serve you well. There is nothing better than FG at the moment if your game is supported by the platform.

Also... it is not really that complex, come on! Jump to FG College if you think it is and they will show you otherwise ;)

[GunnarGreybeard]

I would also recommend FG College. I've had this software for like 10 years now and there is a lot of functionality I still don't know/use so I take classes and watch lots of videos to always keep learning.

[Eadorin]

Last night I started a new campaign with some friends...just as FGU Lobby server was having a host of issues. We began session 0 without FG and just as we finished up with discussion, FG came back online. I didn't have time to prepare the session beforehand. While people were still getting connected I managed to make a map, add LoS (basic map, lots of rectangles), create 3 encounters and add them to the map. That kind of flexibility just isn't in other products. Not only that, but the group was super impressed that I had everything up and running so quickly. I couldn't have done any of it without spending dozens of hours in FG learning the tools inside and out and watching countless FantasyGrounds College videos. Huge KUDOs to them.

[Gaglug]

Fantasy Grounds College is absolutely the place to go. Check it out.

In regards to the original post, I've had much of the opposite experience. I've had player groups that hated trying to wrap their head around some of the crunchier games in face to face play where they had to memorize stats, modifiers for this that and the other, and all the mechanical stuff that comes with crunchier games. These same players love playing in FG because they don't have to worry about most of that backend stuff.

The game keeps track of all of your to-hit, armor, different status modifiers and their durations, bonuses and maluses, and very much de-crunchifies a lot of the overhead which allows people to focus on the game rather than trying to keep track of all the specifics of rules cases. All their stuff is on their sheet, all they have to do is push a button. Boop beep. Done.

[LordEntrails]

Put in an assistance request at FGC, https://fantasygroundscollege.net/assistance-request/

You can ask if anyone could schedule a session 0 for you and your whole party. If someone is available, you can find a time that works for everyone and have someone knowledgeable at FG walk you through getting started, character creation and your first combat.

[GM Hedgehogs]

Thank you everyone that has repplied!! I was put off with how long some of those turtoial videos on FGC were, but seeing the amount of people suggesting it, i will try my best at pushing through! Another note, with FGU now out is it worth forking money into that, or first get to a point where i can use FGClassic? Also, what do people think about other softwares like Role20 and he new Talespire? Alot of my friends use R20 and say it is easier, and ive been attracted to Talespire by the 3D map maker primarily, and the fact it seems like simply a digital tabletop.

[LordEntrails]

The only reason I would suggest FGU right now is;
- if you or your players are running Mac Catalina (os 10.15)
- if you have to have line of sight
- if you / your network is unable to do port forwarding and you need the cloud brokering

Otherwise, stick with FGC. They behave 95% the same.

[Valatar]

Since FGU is still very much in a testing state, I would also recommend holding off on it until it's done. I got on board the kickstarter to support Smiteworks, and FGU's enhancements will bear fruit down the road, but for right here and now most people will have a smoother time with classic.

[Roach]

For comparison: while the first babysteps in Roll20 are easier than in FG, after at most three or four sessions in FG your players will likely have the system under control and hardly need any help. While on Roll20, even after playing for three years, I still have to fight the interface and learn new things. the learning curve is much flatter after the initial step in FG... Talespire I still have to look at...

[ironsplitter]

I started with FGU and had never used Classic before - or any Virtual table top for that matter. FGU was not a good experience and I almost lost all my players from the myriad of technical problems. I'm sure FGU will be awesome at release, but take the 'in beta' very, very seriously. It is not just a matter of the promised features just needing polish or having not been fully implemented, which is what I assumed as a consumer forking over money for the license. Connections are still an issue and performance is abysmal. If you or your players have older hardware, forget about it. I switched to Classic and, you know, it was like having working software. If you or your players have a Mac with Catalina, in which support for 32 bit apps was yanked for some bizarre reason, you can use Bootcamp to install Win10 and run FGC.

As far as Fantasy College - they have a wonderful playlist on Youtube called 'Fantasy Grounds Tips For Beginners', which are a set of tutorial videos between 3 and 10 minutes about a variety of topics. They are informative and short so can be consumed in bite sized chunks.

Also, know that not everything in FG is automated, but there are many 3rd party add-ons sold at dmsguild.com that fill in many of the missing gaps, especially in terms of spell/item effects, in case you don't want to spend an entire weekend learning the 'effects' language. When you get a little experience under your belt, check them out. There are also free modules available within these forums. Some are really amazing and you can tell the community is passionate and talented to keep adding to the game.

Finally, I was in your shoes just a few weeks ago. I found the learning curve for FG quite daunting. The UI is weird and many things (such as character creation) have enumerated steps (not officially documented or enforced in the game) that need to be done in a PARTICULAR order, or everything gets messed up. I found FG college invaluable, as well as other video sources all on YouTube. I basically spent two full days (maybe longer) just watching videos. What is invaluable is to connect to your own game as a player. That way, you can see the GM view and the player view and you can practice 'playing' the game, as GM and player. That is when it all clicked for me.

Good luck!

[Imagix]

I'm a user on the other side of the coin. I've now run 4 sessions with FGU. Never used FGC for anything other than something to put a character sheet into. All of my players have not used any VTT software at all. And I haven't had any major issues with it at all. A couple of minor things, like players not being able to speak in languages (which has now been fixed). But then again, we haven't actually needed the feature anyway. Since we're still figuring out how to use the software in the first place, Line of Sight hasn't been an issue, just masking the map has been sufficient. All of my players see that using FGU is a very good improvement to raw face-to-face. I suspect that when we do manage to play face-to-face again, we'll be running FGU alongside that.

[JohnD]

Smiteworks isn't a AAA publisher with hundreds of millions of dollars and a 500+ employee headcount. The Kickstarter did well... but nowhere near that well.

So when they say it's a "beta" they mean it's a beta, not a 99% finished game that you're paying to play 30 days before release.

Pretty well all the "old hands" here can still remember what it was like when we were new to FG and appreciate the feeling of desperately wanting to game and get on with it... but then trying to figure out how everything translates into the software.

Best thing is to watch in action. Get a demo or a walk through or take a class or two.

I observed a few games of Rolemaster and was hooked. Those people were kind enough to let me play in a few games as well. That right there was enough for me to pop for the Ultimate. That's back when the Canadian $ was roughly $0.60 US... so FG was a significant purchase. I went with Ultimate because I had a bunch of high school and university friends I thought would want to get gaming again after a ~ 20 year drought... well none of them did so I carried on alone.

I watched some videos on YT. On one monitor I had the video, on another I had FG open. I watched the video for a few minutes and then stopped it and duplicated what I had just watched in FG. I taught myself the basics of putting together an adventure over Thursday and Friday nights and a decent chunk of Saturday afternoon and evening. And then the Sunday I was generating NPCs, building encounters, finding maps, etc....

Then I connected to myself as a player (localhost is your friend). I mocked through some basic combat scenarios - I had to make PCs for this, so even here I was learning how to use the software.

That was one weekend. The next I posted a LFP on the forums. In short order I had a group of five... and I've never looked back.

So stick with it and understand FG isn't some crap little app that you only really have four choices at any one time... it's a powerful software program. That means you have a learning curve to get through... accept it and know that when you come out the other side it will be great.

[True Bond]

I completely understand what you mean GM Hedgehogs. I bought this and was completely surprised with how much time I've had to spend just trying to learn how to use it. I've tried to figure out how to use/find variant rules that will use the power of the program to automatically plug in everything I need to create and run variant races like a minotaur or pixie. Next thing I know, I've spent hours and found a few interesting extensions, yet hopelessly lost in a world of dialogue between people familiar with writing code. I don't want to have to do all that in order to enjoy what is obviously a pretty powerful platform... if one can learn how to really use it.
I haven't given up yet, but I'm beginning to wonder if the juice is worth the squeeze. Being unemployed and forced to stay home helps, but how much of this precious gift of time with my family do I really need to spend in order to learn how to play this with them?
Do know that you're not alone. I will remember your handle and if I see anything I think may be helpful, I'll send it your way.

[JohnD]

I completely understand what you mean GM Hedgehogs. I bought this and was completely surprised with how much time I've had to spend just trying to learn how to use it. I've tried to figure out how to use/find variant rules that will use the power of the program to automatically plug in everything I need to create and run variant races like a minotaur or pixie. Next thing I know, I've spent hours and found a few interesting extensions, yet hopelessly lost in a world of dialogue between people familiar with writing code. I don't want to have to do all that in order to enjoy what is obviously a pretty powerful platform... if one can learn how to really use it.
I haven't given up yet, but I'm beginning to wonder if the juice is worth the squeeze. Being unemployed and forced to stay home helps, but how much of this precious gift of time with my family do I really need to spend in order to learn how to play this with them?
Do know that you're not alone. I will remember your handle and if I see anything I think may be helpful, I'll send it your way.

You are skipping the basics and jumping right into more complicated stuff. Learn the basics first - get playing with the basics and add more complexity as your familiarity grows naturally with experience.

[True Bond]

That's encouraging to hear a voice from someone who seems to be having a great time with this program.
It must be truly simple. Am I missing something?
I would simply like to run a home brew campaign with as many variant rules as possible without having to learn an entirely new skill like writing code.
Is it possible to be on the more creative side of 5e without having to learn so much?
How do I create a character like a Pixie or Minotaur and enjoy all the automation and game tracking power that FG has to offer?

[True Bond]

That is perfectly sound advice JohnD. Thank you. I get the impression from what I've seen and read so far that some of what I want to do might not be too advanced. Would you say that creating characters with variant race rules to be advanced use? Over the years playing over the table, we've enjoyed a world of creative character creation. I'd hate to be limited to what is simply in the PHB. I can hang with a little bit of learning. I'm just wondering how much have I bitten off in order to do what I would hope to be basic.
Thanks in advance for your time and thoughts on this.

[JohnD]

Hi True Bond. What it sounds like you want to do isn't terribly advanced for someone who already knows their way around FG functionality. There are some videos for example by Zacchaeus I believe on how to create custom races in the 5e ruleset.

But it sounds like you aren't at the stage where you know the basics of how things get done in FG. That in and of itself moves a lot of things into the "advanced" category because you don't yet have the underpinning understanding that those things are based on.

If you are talking about 5e and have the PHB, learn how to make a stereotypical Human Fighter. The make something that has a few more features, say a Dwarf Cleric... then a Elf Wizard. Look at class and race abilities and how they are translated into the FG character sheet. Then look at the verbiage that is in the race and class entries - because you'll need to mirror that in your own custom stuff to get it to work.

Honestly the best thing you can go do is take a class or two... get you and your family playing something simple and straight forward. That's how you build your knowledge base... which then forms a solid foundation for the other things you want to do.

[Myrdin Potter]

That's encouraging to hear a voice from someone who seems to be having a great time with this program.
It must be truly simple. Am I missing something?
I would simply like to run a home brew campaign with as many variant rules as possible without having to learn an entirely new skill like writing code.
Is it possible to be on the more creative side of 5e without having to learn so much?
How do I create a character like a Pixie or Minotaur and enjoy all the automation and game tracking power that FG has to offer?

Adding a race is pretty straightforward. There is a good video on how to do that in a sticky thread at the top of the 5e forum. That video explains how to add things like the attribute bonuses that come with different races.

There are some abilities that just cannot be automated. Most others just takes a few minutes to look at the format for effects and then write them. To expect to jump into a car and drive it perfectly including all the optional features just after your first driving lesson is not reasonable. Same thing with this program.

If you asked a question for any ability that you were struggling with in the 5e forum, there is a pretty good chance that someone will help you.

[esmdev]

I found FG difficult when I first started, and I picked the most difficult ruleset possible (Rolemaster). It wasn't until a couple years later I decided to try again but this time I tried 5E and ran the Lost Mines of Phandelver module. The first session was a little rocky, the second session went better and by the third we were pretty well rolling.

Since that time I've learned a lot about FG. The first it does a huge amount of work for me but isn't a perfect end all solution and sometimes requires me to be an actual DM and make mechanics decisions and seven sometimes make manual changes to a character sheet. Second, automation isn't always needed, for instance if your characters have the pixie and minotaur info they can just plug it into the character sheet and ignore the race drag and drop entirely. Third, FG was originally designed without all the cool and happy automation and deep down that is still true, you can totally do anything you could do at a tabletop (don't recommend spilling a drink on your keyboard to simulate that) by just doing it your way.

There are a lot of features and functions in FG and even more in the 5E ruleset. My advice would be not not worry about it at first. Use what you need, fudge what you don't know during a game and look into it after.

Finally another thing I found useful was to watch some FG gameplay videos on YouTube. There are a lot of how to videos but there are also quite a few of people just playing. I found the Digital Dungeon Master to have quite a few. I watched his videos of Lost Mines while running the module and it helped quite a bit. There are a number of others but I'm most familiar with his. He also has a good one for setting up the desktop as a DM, if you look up 'fantasy grounds Martha Stewart' it should come up.

Hope this helps.

[Trenloe]

Some advice here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?56958-Daunted-noob-reaching-for-a-glimmer-of-hope&p=501498&viewfull=1#post501498

[Silversteel]

I'd suggest learning to use the program before trying to add things in. I learnt by taking a break from my regular campaign and buying a few FG modules, in conjunction with the wiki, etc. Working through the links in the first module taught me a lot about the program, then I learnt how to use the maps, tokens and combat tracker, then I invited a couple of test players to the module and that taught me a whole lot more. After running a number of modules I then had no trouble going back to my regular campaign and adding the things I needed.

[Mytherus]

Just echoing what others said...FGC is a resource you should absolutely take advantage if you are that lost with how to use the tool. Two years ago i knew nothing about fantasy grounds. Now i think the tool is brilliant and i dm twice a week with it. I use the 5e ruleset. Not trying to sound like a jerk but though there is a small learning curve to learn the product its not that daunting. You do have to apply some time to learn it. I took four classes with fgc then i joined a game as a player . From there i jumped into being a dm and even now i just ask questions. Fortunately my players are dms with more experience in fg than me.

[True Bond]

Thank you JohnD. I appreciate your feedback. I have watched a couple videos and was delighted to see how simple it actually was to create the characters I need for my campaign. I'm starting to understand a little more now how FG works. You're correct, an elephant can only be eaten one bite at a time :-)

Cheers

[True Bond]

Adding a race is pretty straightforward. There is a good video on how to do that in a sticky thread at the top of the 5e forum. That video explains how to add things like the attribute bonuses that come with different races.

There are some abilities that just cannot be automated. Most others just takes a few minutes to look at the format for effects and then write them. To expect to jump into a car and drive it perfectly including all the optional features just after your first driving lesson is not reasonable. Same thing with this program.

If you asked a question for any ability that you were struggling with in the 5e forum, there is a pretty good chance that someone will help you.

Thank you Myrdin Potter. You're absolutely correct. In this case it was more like my expecting to go for a ride in Buick Lesabre and found myself in a Boeing 747 ****pit. I got lost. But I watched a couple videos and now they're letting me taxi around the runway. Moving forward. Thanks for your feedback.

[True Bond]

I found FG difficult when I first started, and I picked the most difficult ruleset possible (Rolemaster). It wasn't until a couple years later I decided to try again but this time I tried 5E and ran the Lost Mines of Phandelver module. The first session was a little rocky, the second session went better and by the third we were pretty well rolling.

Since that time I've learned a lot about FG. The first it does a huge amount of work for me but isn't a perfect end all solution and sometimes requires me to be an actual DM and make mechanics decisions and seven sometimes make manual changes to a character sheet. Second, automation isn't always needed, for instance if your characters have the pixie and minotaur info they can just plug it into the character sheet and ignore the race drag and drop entirely. Third, FG was originally designed without all the cool and happy automation and deep down that is still true, you can totally do anything you could do at a tabletop (don't recommend spilling a drink on your keyboard to simulate that) by just doing it your way.

There are a lot of features and functions in FG and even more in the 5E ruleset. My advice would be not not worry about it at first. Use what you need, fudge what you don't know during a game and look into it after.

Finally another thing I found useful was to watch some FG gameplay videos on YouTube. There are a lot of how to videos but there are also quite a few of people just playing. I found the Digital Dungeon Master to have quite a few. I watched his videos of Lost Mines while running the module and it helped quite a bit. There are a number of others but I'm most familiar with his. He also has a good one for setting up the desktop as a DM, if you look up 'fantasy grounds Martha Stewart' it should come up.

Hope this helps.

Thank you! This is really good feedback. Yes, I have a tendency to dive in without looking sometimes. I was sold on the automation and functionality without looking too deeply into how it works. I expect, once I tame this beast, it will help make game play smoother over the table, not having myself or my players having to reach for a book every ten minutes. Or calculate tons of die rolls. I've been playing over the table for years and just now running a game for the first time, and I wanted to spend more time role playing than being bogged down by mechanics.
I was sent a couple videos on variant race creation and have since created the character races needed for my players. I'm beginning to understand this program a little better and I can see that there is tons to learn, but that it isn't as scary as it first looked.
Thanks for taking the time to lend some perspective.

Best,