Savage Worlds Deluxe Edition Ruleset error!

[Galdor]

When I right-click on a attribute (Smarts etc) of a copied version of a NPC to modify the die of the Attribute, this is the error displayed: 34133

Additionally, when I modify something on a copied version of a NPC, the effects of such modifications do not occur. For example, if I modify the Fighting skill, the Parry value does not change accordingly; if I put on the NPC the Charismatic edge, Charisma value does not change; etc etc

[Ikael]

When I right-click on a attribute (Smarts etc) of a copied version of a NPC to modify the die of the Attribute

This was fixed in latest update which became live yesterday. Update and try again.



Additionally, when I modify something on a copied version of a NPC, the effects of such modifications do not occur. For example, if I modify the Fighting skill, the Parry value does not change accordingly; if I put on the NPC the Charismatic edge, Charisma value does not change; etc etc

That's as expected. There is no automation in NPC stat calculation because according to rules GM should not define NPC stats according to PC creation rules. Instead you have freedom to put whatever values you want.

[Galdor]

That's as expected. There is no automation in NPC stat calculation because according to rules GM should not define NPC stats according to PC creation rules. Instead you have freedom to put whatever values you want.
Thank you Ikael (the bug is fixed)!!
Is there a way to have automation in NPC stats calculation? For example, may I create a player character (so having automation) and then putting it between NPCs?

Two more issues:

- there is no automation at all in shields effects: I can't put a shield in a NPC sheet and if I put a shield on a player character sheet the shield effects do not occur. Should I put every time the shield effects in the combat tracker? It's a bit awkward :(

- about the "Bolt" power: when I cast additional bolts how can I decide how many bolts to shoot to specific targets? For example: I cast 3 Bolts against 2 Goblins; how can I decide to cast 2 Bolts against Goblin A, and 1 Bolt against Goblin B?!

[Galdor]

Waiting for a kind reply to the issues of my previous post, I add a suggestion to the developers: it could be very useful to have the Pace Roll in the Combat Tracker! As a GM I often use the "Run" action for the NPCs and it is so annoying (and time consuming as well!) to go to find the Pace Roll in the NPC sheet..

[IceBear]

For my NPCs if they have a medium shield I give them an attack called Shield and add the effect [Parry +2, Cover +2]. It won't change the stats on the NPC but it should add those when the NPC is attacked. I woke up in the middle of the night so not at my computer to double check but pretty sure that's what I did for my NPCs with shields.

For PCs the shield in the items should already have the effect built in. Again, it's not going to change the Parry stat visually but when they are attacked by a Fighting roll their Parry should be 2 points higher in the calculations. The trick, and I did the same thing when I started a few weeks ago, is to EQUIP the shield. Just having it in your inventory means it is carried (bag icon). Need to click on that so it changes to the armor icon so it's actually equipped

As for bolt, I haven't done that myself. However my character has a ROF 3 gun and if I target two enemies at once the first one i target is shot at twice and the 3rd shot goes to the enemy i targeted second

[IceBear]

The effects wiki helped me a lot with putting effects on items

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/Savage_Worlds_Effects

[Ikael]

Waiting for a kind reply to the issues of my previous post, I add a suggestion to the developers: it could be very useful to have the Pace Roll in the Combat Tracker! As a GM I often use the "Run" action for the NPCs and it is so annoying (and time consuming as well!) to go to find the Pace Roll in the NPC sheet..

You can make run rolls from CT by either dragging or double clicking Pace field.

[Ikael]

Thank you Ikael (the bug is fixed)!!
Is there a way to have automation in NPC stats calculation? For example, may I create a player character (so having automation) and then putting it between NPCs?


You can create your NPCs as pure PCs and after you are done you can drag-and-drop them into NPC list which would convert them into NPCs with all stats calculated.

[Galdor]

You can make run rolls from CT by either dragging or double clicking Pace field.
You can make run rolls from NPC sheet, not from CT! So I have to open the NPC sheet every time I want to make run rolls, and it's time consuming; or I have to keep NPC sheet always visible, and it occupies a valuable portion of the screen.

[Ikael]

You can make run rolls from NPC sheet, not from CT! So I have to open the NPC sheet every time I want to make run rolls, and it's time consuming; or I have to keep NPC sheet always visible, and it occupies a valuable portion of the screen.

I double-checked it and you can make run roll from CT as I explained.

[Galdor]

I double-checked it and you can make run roll from CT as I explained.

I Can't! If I drag and drop the Pace field from the NPC sheet to CT it shows up in the CT as a damage to apply! Look at this screenshot:35676
I am using Savage Worlds Deluxe v. 4.10.3

[Ikael]

I Can't! If I drag and drop the Pace field from the NPC sheet to CT it shows up in the CT as a damage to apply! Look at this screenshot:35676
I am using Savage Worlds Deluxe v. 4.10.3

Show Derived Stats on CT (shield icon) and you can make run roll from Pace field.

[Galdor]

Show Derived Stats on CT (shield icon) and you can make run roll from Pace field.
Thank you Ikael: it works!
Now what it's missing are only the effects/automaton for NPCs Shields..:)

[IceBear]

I made a suggestion earlier...not sure if it was this thread as it comes up alot. I add an attack called shield and give it the effect [Parry +2, Cover +2] to it...in the case of a medium shield

[Ikael]

You can drop shield item into NPC gear section and when you add that NPC to CT it will have shield effect.

[IceBear]

I didn't know about that Ikael...thanks

As there are many ways to achieve the same thing in FGs, here's a screen shot of how I did it.

It won't update their stats, but when attacked their Parry gets a +2 modifier or if shot at the TN increases by 2.

[Galdor]

You can drop shield item into NPC gear section and when you add that NPC to CT it will have shield effect.
It doesn't work (I checked it).

Additionally, I discovered a new error: when I put the Long Sword from the Items list to a Player Character Sheet, the damage displayed is always wrong. In fact, it is always the Strenght dice of the Character X2: for example, if the Strenght dice of the Character is d4, the Long Sword damage is 2d4 (when it should be d4 + d8 instead, since the Long Sword damage is Strenght Trait + d8)!

[Ikael]

Additionally, I discovered a new error: when I put the Long Sword from the Items list to a Player Character Sheet, the damage displayed is always wrong. In fact, it is always the Strenght dice of the Character X2: for example, if the Strenght dice of the Character is d4, the Long Sword damage is 2d4 (when it should be d4 + d8 instead, since the Long Sword damage is Strenght Trait + d8)!

That's not a bug, that's what rules say if you don't meet min strength requirements.

[Galdor]

Thank you Ikael. Unfortunately what follows still doesn't work:

You can drop shield item into NPC gear section and when you add that NPC to CT it will have shield effect.

Additionally, I faced a new bug: when I enlarge the Melee Weapons Table opened by "Items" button, the "Notes" of the weapons remains cut. Look at this screenshot: 36288

[Varsuuk]

This was fixed in latest update which became live yesterday. Update and try again.




That's as expected. There is no automation in NPC stat calculation because according to rules GM should not define NPC stats according to PC creation rules. Instead you have freedom to put whatever values you want.

Hey Ikael,

I was trying to figure out why my corrected (added into a brand new mod) The War of the Dead Archtypes didn't get added "right" to my characters list.

I am still pretty new with SW on FG - trying to setup my first remote game. I wrote a longer thing on the [SWD] PreGen... etc thread, but reading this made me think it might be related but still not sure how to get around.

The Archtypes are for PCs, it's on the PC window - but assume useful for NPCs.
I tried both putting the toughness derived stat and not putting it in. If the PC-to-Be had Brawny, it doesn't calculate right - doesn't add +1.

Any advice?

[Ikael]

Thank you Ikael. Unfortunately what follows still doesn't work:


Additionally, I faced a new bug: when I enlarge the Melee Weapons Table opened by "Items" button, the "Notes" of the weapons remains cut. Look at this screenshot: 36288

If the item/shield would have effects the approach of dropping the item to NPC would work. However SWD core modules does not have Effects embedded into items. You can make copy of shield and input those effects yourself.

I have fixed the item/weapon list cut issue and it will be part of next update.

[Galdor]

If the item/shield would have effects the approach of dropping the item to NPC would work. However SWD core modules does not have Effects embedded into items. You can make copy of shield and input those effects yourself.
Oh my... how can I input those effects by myself? And where should I input such effects? I am sorry but I bought SWD ruleset and I expect such product works properly: "Effects embedded into items" is a base expectation for any FG ruleset!:(

[Ikael]

Savage Worlds Deluxe Edition (SWD) rule system is 7+ years old and newer version of Savage Worlds product (Savage Worlds Adventure Edition, SWADE) was released last year. The effects framework system was developed for SWADE, not for SWD. SWADE products have full support for effects framework (items, abilities etc. have embedded effects). Since SWD is older product, the ruleset is getting back-port feature updates. For instance the effects framework feature was back-ported but it is expected that SWD users have to input them manually.


Oh my... how can I input those effects by myself? And where should I input such effects?

Read here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/Savage_Worlds_Effects


"Effects embedded into items" is a base expectation for any FG ruleset!:(

There are only few rulesets that have such feature-rich support out of the box. Because SWADE is the newer product it is getting more features and updates. SWD is far from being abandoned but it does not get all the fancy new features.

[Galdor]

Me and my friends bought SWD a couple of months ago (because I use it in my gaming groups), when SWADE was already available in the shop: apparently it has been an error, because we should have bought SWADE! However, if you don't develop SWD anymore, you should have removed it from the shop, or underlining such lack of development in the product page (at least)!


There are only few rulesets that have such feature-rich support out of the box. Because SWADE is the newer product it is getting more features and updates. SWD is far from being abandoned but it does not get all the fancy new features.
Few rulesets?!
D&D 5 ruleset has Effects embedded into items;
CoC7 has them;
Castles and Crusades has them;
Pathfinder has them;
Moongoose Traveller 2E has them..
Should I continue?! :(

[Ikael]

Me and my friends bought SWD a couple of months ago (because I use it in my gaming groups), when SWADE was already available in the shop: apparently it has been an error, because we should have bought SWADE! However, if you don't develop SWD anymore, you should have removed it from the shop, or underlining such lack of development in the product page (at least)!

I already wrote that SWD is still getting updates and new features. It is far from being abandoned. SWADE is just getting more features (such as embedded effects) because it is newer product and the feature plays better with the new rules.

SWD and SWADE are similar but there are some major changes to distinct them from each other which is why SWD is still in the store.

[Galdor]

SWADE is just getting more features (such as embedded effects) because it is newer product and the feature plays better with the new rules.
Embedded effects feature is equally needful for the SWD rules! I bought (and play) SWD also because it should facilitate all the book-keeping (as highlighted in the product shop page too) and Embedded effects are fundamental on this matter!
For example, I want to put a Medium Shield in the Gear of a PC or NPC and have all the maths/bonus/effects immediately automated, without any perilous journey in the world of "how to write/include/embed effects".. I have no time, neither proficiency, for this: I am not a programmer, and I paid money for a product to do it..

Furthermore, as listed in my last post, the rulesets which have Effects embedded into items are not "few":
D&D 5 ruleset has Effects embedded into items;
CoC7 has them;
Castles and Crusades has them;
Pathfinder has them;
Moongoose Traveller 2E has them..
Should I continue?!

[Ikael]

Embedded effects feature is equally needful for the SWD rules! I bought (and play) SWD also because it should facilitate all the book-keeping (as highlighted in the product shop page too) and Embedded effects are fundamental on this matter!
For example, I want to put a Medium Shield in the Gear of a PC or NPC and have all the maths/bonus/effects immediately automated, without any perilous journey in the world of "how to write/include/embed effects".. I have no time, neither proficiency, for this: I am not a programmer, and I paid money for a product to do it..

Furthermore, as listed in my last post, the rulesets which have Effects embedded into items are not "few":
D&D 5 ruleset has Effects embedded into items;
CoC7 has them;
Castles and Crusades has them;
Pathfinder has them;
Moongoose Traveller 2E has them..
Should I continue?!

The fact is that there are no plans to add that feature into SWD ruleset. There are alot of automation in SWD and more are provided in the future updates but it was decision not to include out-of-the-box embedded effects for abilities and items because the feature was designed and developed for SWADE.

[Galdor]

Why such (apparently unreasonable) decision?
As I tried to explain, embedded effects are fundamental for SWD, they are expected - and in fact included - in most rulesets, they are one main reason because many players buy SWD on FG (players wish automatons!), etc..

I do hope the reason is not to lure more SWADE purchases.. If so, as you wrote:

SWD and SWADE are similar but there are some major changes to distinct them from each other

[Talyn]

I do hope the reason is not to lure more SWADE purchases...:

You already have SWADE, it comes by default with either Savage Worlds ruleset purchases. The only thing you're missing is the SWADE books, which come with that particular DLC. If you look at your campaign options you have both SavageWorlds and SWD available.

As a couple of us have mentioned in other threads, in any cases where we make both SWD and SWADE content available, only the SWADE versions are to receive new features and updates. The SWD material only gets hotfixes if something is legit broken.

[Ikael]

Why such (apparently unreasonable) decision?
As I tried to explain, embedded effects are fundamental for SWD, they are expected - and in fact included - in most rulesets, they are one main reason because many players buy SWD on FG (players wish automatons!), etc..

I do hope the reason is not to lure more SWADE purchases.. If so, as you wrote:

The main reason why SWD is not getting all the new features is lack of time to develop and deliver them to both rulesets. Another reason is that SWD rules did not do good job making rules consistent which makes certain automation development impossible. SWADE rule updates fixed many of these rule issues and overall made SavageWorlds more streamlined which in the end allows more automation to be developed. Almost anything can be achieved with software development but not everything makes sense to be implemented.

You can argue what is fundamental and expected but these are the facts. SWD is very much playable and has been long before it had any automation. SWD is getting feature updates along with SWADE but my personal development time is more dedicated to design new features for SWADE and backport them to SWD if it is feasible complexity- and time wise.

[Galdor]

You already have SWADE, it comes by default with either Savage Worlds ruleset purchases. The only thing you're missing is the SWADE books, which come with that particular DLC
That means I don't have NPCs, Items, etc.. we are discussing about effects embedded in Items here (which is a feature too useful to not include in SWD).


only the SWADE versions are to receive new features and updates. The SWD material only gets hotfixes if something is legit broken
As I previously recalled in this thread, underlining in the Product Shop Page what you wrote here above should be a duty towards customers. If I have known it, I never purchased SWD (and I would have bought SWADE instead).


The main reason why SWD is not getting all the new features is lack of time to develop and deliver them to both rulesets. Another reason is that SWD rules did not do good job making rules consistent which makes certain automation development impossible. SWADE rule updates fixed many of these rule issues and overall made SavageWorlds more streamlined which in the end allows more automation to be developed. Almost anything can be achieved with software development but not everything makes sense to be implemented.
If you invite IT unskilled customers (like me) to do it by themselves, such feature should not be so hard for a software developer to include in SWD, right?


You can argue what is fundamental and expected but these are the facts.
I am sorry but you wrote that only "few" rulesets have effects embedded in items: the facts are different, and I listed you several of the many rulesets which have such feature. That's the reason because I wrote that effects embedded in items are fundamental and expected by rulesets: simply because most of the rulesets have them!


SWD is very much playable and has been long before it had any automation.
This is an opinion, but it is denied by the fact that many automation have been added during time: it means that such automation were needful and/or made SWD much playable.

SWD is getting feature updates along with SWADE but my personal development time is more dedicated to design new features for SWADE and backport them to SWD if it is feasible complexity- and time wise.
May I kindly suggest to change your mind only on this specific feature: effects embedded in items for SWD?

[Ikael]

May I kindly suggest to change your mind only on this specific feature: effects embedded in items for SWD?

Could you kindly list what effects should be embedded to what items?

[Talyn]

D&D 5 ruleset has Effects embedded into items;
CoC7 has them;
Castles and Crusades has them;
Pathfinder has them;


D&D 5E absolutely does not have effects on items built in. Neither does Pathfinder (1E). Neither does C&C. Neither does CoC7E. Not sure what you're getting at, but those are patently false statements.

There is a community extension for 5E that allows effects on items, written by the author of the AD&D 2E ruleset which means 2E is pretty much the only other ruleset out there that ships with that feature (unless Pathfinder 2E does; I haven't taken the time to play around with that one yet and I don't own Traveller).



That's the reason because I wrote that effects embedded in items are fundamental and expected by rulesets: simply because most of the rulesets have them!


As I listed above, most rulesets absolutely do not provide that functionality. I'll agree that it's "expected" and I can back that up with tons of questions about that topic both here in the forums and on the Discord, but it's never been a built-in feature until SWADE and 2E did it, and both of those are recent developments, so not something that would be listed as features on the store pages.



As I previously recalled in this thread, underlining in the Product Shop Page what you wrote here above should be a duty towards customers. If I have known it, I never purchased SWD (and I would have bought SWADE instead).


As @Ikael stated very clearly, he still keeps SWD maintained and updated. That's more than can be said about a few other rulesets which are still for sale on the store. C&C just sat there rotting with no developer for 5+ years til @Andraax and I came aboard a couple years ago. Rolemaster had no developer for an even longer time, until a few months ago. 13th Age is 'new' but was nearly immediately abandoned by its developer until a few months ago when someone else was assigned to it. Savage Worlds has extremely active development, especially since @Ikael was placed in charge of the ruleset development and maintaining the product lineup here on FG. He's stated has no plans to add this specific feature to SWD but as we all know, plans change. :) So who knows? Something to keep in mind though that, aside from possibly requiring a massive re-write to large sections of the SWD ruleset which was never built to support it, only the base items would ship with that new feature. All the rest of the SWD DLC is from other developers who would have to be notified of the new feature and agree to patch in all the new data. It's not something that code alone fixes across the board.

The majority of Savage Worlds content out in the wild and here on FG was written for SWD, and some folks are resistant to change so they'd rather stick with what they know. Playing SWD content in the SWADE ruleset will eventually mean handling some converting on your own, which again is something we encounter nearly daily on Discord, forums, Facebook, etc. because a lot of other folk like the New Shiny™ (SWADE) but still want to play the older content. There's not a single ruleset on FG that handles things like a videogame where every possible interaction is automated or pre-programmed and you just sit back and let things happen on their own, and that's something SmiteWorks has been very opposed to anyway. They want the GMs to GM and the players to play, not just sit back and watch.

I feel like I'm just shooting down your hopes, and I honestly don't mean to. I see you've been a FG member for two years now, so belated "welcome!" :) I hope you get hours and hours of enjoyment from either or both editions of the Savage Worlds rulesets.

[Galdor]

I voluntarily skip most of Talyn arguments: we apparently have some different points of view.
I wish only address the following:

There's not a single ruleset on FG that handles things like a videogame where every possible interaction is automated or pre-programmed and you just sit back and let things happen on their own, and that's something SmiteWorks has been very opposed to anyway. They want the GMs to GM and the players to play, not just sit back and watch.
It is absolutely not a matter of "handling things like a videogame", or that "every possible interaction is automated or pre-programmed", neither "just sitting back and watch": I am just suggesting to facilitate/speed-up a lot of annoying book-keeping!
For example, if an effect like "+1 Parry" is not embedded in the Item, it means that I have to remember to modify my Parry value when I equip/use that Item, going to the appropriate sheet and manually modify it. It's only awkward book-keeping, a kind of book-keeping that should/could be cut in FG!


Could you kindly list what effects should be embedded to what items?

All the effects listed in the "Notes" on Armor table and on Melee Weapons table as well.
For example, the "Parry -1" effect of several weapons (it does not apply, I checked it); or the "+1 Parry" and "+2 Armor to ranged shot that hit"(*) of the Medium Shield (they do not apply even when equipped to PCs, I checked them); etc..

(*) the rule exactly states that the +2 Armor applies to ranged shot that hit the protected side, but I guess such specification could be too difficult to embed. It doesn't matter: it could be very useful if at least the main effects could be embedded in Shields, Weapons, etc..

[Ikael]

All the effects listed in the "Notes" on Armor table and on Melee Weapons table as well.
For example, the "Parry -1" effect of several weapons (it does not apply, I checked it); or the "+1 Parry" and "+2 Armor to ranged shot that hit"(*) of the Medium Shield (they do not apply even when equipped to PCs, I checked them); etc..

(*) the rule exactly states that the +2 Armor applies to ranged shot that hit the protected side, but I guess such specification could be too difficult to embed. It doesn't matter: it could be very useful if at least the main effects could be embedded in Shields, Weapons, etc..

I kindly refuse. If such effects are embedded to items, they should be reflected to all other resources such as NPCs which are using those items. Not to mention that all these changes should be done to 300+ other products for sake of consistency. That would be massive work that I do not plan to do.

[Varsuuk]

...
For example, if an effect like "+1 Parry" is not em...

Not addressing your larger point (I can't, I am not a dev here and have MINIMAL SW experience on FG) but I know in 5E, if I have an ability that interacts but doesn't have an auto effect - I create an "ability" like "Paladin Aura;AC:2;SAVE:1" etc (not sure if SYNTAX is even right for 5E and of course I made up the effect) that I click when I am near the Pally in radius and remove otherwise. Does NOT help make it "fast" but helps with not having to modify then unmodify the bonus.

Just create a "Gizmo;PARRY:1" etc (with right syntax) effect that you click on in the POWERS section if in SW there is no better part.

(others can chime in with their workarounds if likely better)

[Galdor]

Just create a "Gizmo;PARRY:1" etc (with right syntax) effect that you click on in the POWERS section if in SW there is no better part.
Forgive me Varsuuk: I did not understand anything you wrote (I am not a programmer).


I kindly refuse. If such effects are embedded to items, they should be reflected to all other resources such as NPCs which are using those items. Not to mention that all these changes should be done to 300+ other products for sake of consistency. That would be massive work that I do not plan to do.
The 'consistency' could be ignored: I was proposing to do the work for Armor table and for Melee Weapons table of the SWD base rulebook only. Stop. In the rare event that someone could use the 'Lankhmarian trident', well, the effects could be put down manually.
About NPCs: I guess that pre-made NPCs, included in the base rulebook, have all the statistics already pre-calculated on the base of weapons/armor worn, right? So no work for them. It certainly could be useful that the Effects embedded in weapons/armors being embedded also for NPCs, so when I equip a NPC with a weapon/armor the effects are embedded also for them.. but is it a so cumbersome work to allow it?

[Ikael]

The 'consistency' could be ignored: I was proposing to do the work for Armor table and for Melee Weapons table of the SWD base rulebook only. Stop. In the rare event that someone could use the 'Lankhmarian trident', well, the effects could be put down manually.
About NPCs: I guess that pre-made NPCs, included in the base rulebook, have all the statistics already pre-calculated on the base of weapons/armor worn, right? So no work for them. It certainly could be useful that the Effects embedded in weapons/armors being embedded also for NPCs, so when I equip a NPC with a weapon/armor the effects are embedded also for them.. but is it a so cumbersome work to allow it?

I have understood your request and my work is to analyze how ruleset changes would and should affect the whole product line. Although you personally would need it only for SWD, the fact is that consistency is important throughout the product line. This feature request is categorized as "nice to have" for SWD and not worth implementing due to overall work effort it would require. You can manually manage embedded effects yourself in SWD. I won't be commenting further on this topic.

[Doswelk]

It is absolutely not a matter of "handling things like a videogame", or that "every possible interaction is automated or pre-programmed", neither "just sitting back and watch": I am just suggesting to facilitate/speed-up a lot of annoying book-keeping!
For example, if an effect like "+1 Parry" is not embedded in the Item, it means that I have to remember to modify my Parry value when I equip/use that Item, going to the appropriate sheet and manually modify it...

you mean like I have been doing since 2008 with Savage Worlds ruleset...

automation is not needed and I find slows things down sometimes, besides in a face to face game a piece of paper character sheet doesn’t automatically add the +1 parry.

it would be nice to have but it is not a requirement to play savage worlds on FG

[mac40k]

you mean like I have been doing since 2008 with Savage Worlds ruleset...

automation is not needed and I find slows things down sometimes, besides in a face to face game a piece of paper character sheet doesn’t automatically add the +1 parry.

it would be nice to have but it is not a requirement to play savage worlds on FG

This guy would have hated older versions of SWD. Remember when we had to manually add the +1d6 to damage when getting a hit with a raise? LOL!

[Doswelk]

This guy would have hated older versions of SWD. Remember when we had to manually add the +1d6 to damage when getting a hit with a raise? LOL!

Indeed :D

[Galdor]

This guy would have hated older versions of SWD. Remember when we had to manually add the +1d6 to damage when getting a hit with a raise? LOL!
I did not buy FG (neither SWD of course) at that time simply because what you have reminded: they were too much awkward and pretty unuseful. I preferred playing RPGs on a real table (as I do from 1989) or occasionally by Skype (with distant friends).
In my humble opinion, tools like FG (and SWD as well) should in effect ease/speed-up the play; they should make you exclaim: "how much time I wasted with math and book-keeping at the gaming table! Not anymore: let's (role)play now and nothing else matter, because FG (SWD) do it for us!"
For such reasons, automation are crucial in my perspective: without automation I would play on a real table (or by any videochat programme)..


This feature request is categorized as "nice to have" for SWD
Why this feature has been included in SWADE, whereas it has been categorized only as "nice to have" for SWD? They are two very different priorities for two very similar game systems..


I have understood your request and my work is to analyze how ruleset changes would and should affect the whole product line. Although you personally would need it only for SWD, the fact is that consistency is important throughout the product line.
About the importance of consistency: a part of "Effects embedded in Items" feature has been included in the SWD ruleset and a part not. In fact, the 'Armor Piercing' effect has been embedded in weapons (and it works, I checked!), while all the other effects were not embedded in weapons..

[zarlor]

Why this feature has been included in SWADE, whereas it has been categorized only as "nice to have" for SWD? They are two very different priorities for two very similar game systems..

Simple, as Ikael already explained. SWD is a deprecated ruleset, it's like asking Pinnacle to open back up the SWD FAQ section of their forum. They won't because it's not directly supported anymore, instead they support SWADE. In this case it also means there are very few settings that are SWADE-specific yet, so any new features in SWADE can be implemented in those settings and as the default method in any NEW settings. The problem with SWD is there are a TON of old setting out there, and the vast majority of those settings in FG are from independent authors. As Ikael noted it would require coordinating with ALL of those authors as well as modifying all of the parts of the, now deprecated, sections of the SWD ruleset to implement what you are asking for. The sheer level of work and coordination involved makes that a "nice to have" feature, but continuing improvements for SWADE simply must take priority. Anything SWD that isn't relatively easy to implement (that will not negatively impact all of the existing modules out there for it) or already being implemented in shared code for SWADE simply must have lower consideration over SWADE word, understandably.

Additionally you must consider customer demand. The automation already available for SWD and SWADE in Fantasy Grounds compared to any other VTT out there is simply phenomenal. Nothing out there even comes remotely close to it. Even so the vast majority of customers using Savage Worlds in Fantasy Ground are going to be using it for SWADE, and new customers are going to be looking to get it for SWADE, not SWD. The demand is not going to be high enough to justify spending the money to implement features in SWD that could be better spent improving SWADE. In other words it just cannot be financially justified implementing that in SWD unless some way could be found to implement it much more easily, and not just in the core rules, but remember again that it also has to be rolled out to all of those modules, too. So in that sense, yes, I cannot see how they could not declare that feature as just "nice to have". Does make any sense?

[Galdor]

Simple, as Ikael already explained. SWD is a deprecated ruleset, it's like asking Pinnacle to open back up the SWD FAQ section of their forum. They won't because it's not directly supported anymore, instead they support SWADE. In this case it also means there are very few settings that are SWADE-specific yet, so any new features in SWADE can be implemented in those settings and as the default method in any NEW settings. The problem with SWD is there are a TON of old setting out there, and the vast majority of those settings in FG are from independent authors. As Ikael noted it would require coordinating with ALL of those authors as well as modifying all of the parts of the, now deprecated, sections of the SWD ruleset to implement what you are asking for. The sheer level of work and coordination involved makes that a "nice to have" feature, but continuing improvements for SWADE simply must take priority. Anything SWD that isn't relatively easy to implement (that will not negatively impact all of the existing modules out there for it) or already being implemented in shared code for SWADE simply must have lower consideration over SWADE word, understandably.

Additionally you must consider customer demand. The automation already available for SWD and SWADE in Fantasy Grounds compared to any other VTT out there is simply phenomenal. Nothing out there even comes remotely close to it. Even so the vast majority of customers using Savage Worlds in Fantasy Ground are going to be using it for SWADE, and new customers are going to be looking to get it for SWADE, not SWD. The demand is not going to be high enough to justify spending the money to implement features in SWD that could be better spent improving SWADE. In other words it just cannot be financially justified implementing that in SWD unless some way could be found to implement it much more easily, and not just in the core rules, but remember again that it also has to be rolled out to all of those modules, too. So in that sense, yes, I cannot see how they could not declare that feature as just "nice to have". Does make any sense?
Yes, thank you zarlor, makes sense.
So they are unfortunately true some considerations I made earlier in this thread (especially the later one):

Me and my friends bought SWD a couple of months ago (because I use it in my gaming groups), when SWADE was already available in the shop: apparently it has been an error, because we should have bought SWADE! However, if you don't develop SWD anymore, you should have removed it from the shop, or underlining such lack of development in the product page (at least)!

As I previously recalled in this thread, underlining in the Product Shop Page what you wrote here above should be a duty towards customers. If I have known it, I never purchased SWD (and I would have bought SWADE instead).

[zarlor]

I couldn't speak to the company's thoughts on this, and maybe they could have made it clearer that the support for SWD would be waning as they build more functionality with their focus into the current SWADE ruleset. It looked to me like that was their intent, but I couldn't speak to how a new customer might have read their information on this so I'd certainly just have to take your word for it. I suppose it could be argued caveat emptor and all, and it seems most folks coming in new would gravitate towards the newer ruleset. Still, if I may suggest, why not reach out directly to FG support with your concerns? You might be able to get SWADE or get a discount towards adding SWADE to your license if they agree your concerns are legitimate, or at least if they wish to try to provide some satisfaction to you as a potentially unhappy customer. No guarantees but it could be worth trying if having that functionality is such a major concern for you.