Beasts & Barbarians Steel Edition Feedback & Updates

[Talyn]

This will be the "official" thread to discuss Beasts & Barbarians Steel Edition (BBSE). Patch notes will be posted to this thread as well.

First off, I was recently placed in charge of the entire B&B lineup, and I would like to take the time to thank @Atrill for all his excellent work developing Gold Edition, two adventures, then Steel Edition. @Atrill has moved on to other interests and has ceased development for Fantasy Grounds, and I wish him the best! :)

I was specifically instructed to update Steel Edition to 100% SWADE using the conversion guides from both Pinnacle and GRAmel. The Player Guide is (I hope) pretty much done. I haven't started SWADE-ifying the GM Guide yet, but since I pushed the BBGE patches, I had to push this work-in-progress as well to maintain consistency with the display name and library category changes.

GM Guide

[Fixed] Displayname and author text
[Fixed] Library category
[Removed] Adventure from the BBGE core book
[Fixed] Separate functional extension and theme extension


Player Guide

[Fixed] All data (I hope) is now converted over to SWADE
[Fixed] Displayname and author text
[Fixed] Library category
[Added] Missing Edges
[Fixed] Edges now indicate their correct type


Similar to BBGE, you'll now see two extensions. Beasts & Barbarians Steel Edition contains the scripts to add the arcane backgrounds, remove the banned arcane backgrounds, and add the BBSE desktop decal. The Theme - Beasts & Barbarians Steel Edition is just that -- a graphical theme, no scripting.

[qdwag]

Thanks for doing all the above :)

I'm new and looking to get into B&B myself (SWADE). Which campaign modules can I buy from FG, that will work without conversion issues?

[Talyn]

Extension

[Fixed] Shortened announcement text


Player's Guide

[Added] Poverty (Minor) hindrance was missing
[Added] 'Forbidden Hindrances' text to Hindrances list
[Added] 'Banned arcane backgrounds' text to the Edges list
[Added] Modified Stealth skill
[Fixed] All vehicles and the Vehicle list updated to SWADE versions
[Fixed] Renamed the following Hindrance: Code of Honor (Amazons) to Code of Honor - Amazons (Major); Code of Honor (Corsairs) to Code of Honor - Corsairs (Major) so they work with the Hindrances list filter
[Fixed] Modified Powers and New Powers refpages. Now mimics the layout in the SWADE Player Guide and each power is linked from its description
[Fixed] Skills now link directly to their applicable arcane backgrounds rather than the refpage
[Fixed] Cover art now uses an imagelink; removed text link
[Added] Added to Credits refpage: BBSE logo, SmiteWorks licensing text, and links to GRAmel and Fantasy Grounds websites
[Added] 'Fantasy Grounds Edition' refpage
[Fixed] Replace instances of Knowledge() skills with Academics
[Fixed] Heroes chapter of reference manual updated to SWADE Hindrances, Edges, and accompanying text. Updated layout to match SWADE Player Guide. All Hindrances and Edges linked in their descriptions.
[Added] Default Setting Rules refpage to Setting Rules chapter.
[Fixed] All refpages should (fingers crossed) be properly utilizing blocks now


This patch should bring the Player's Guide up to 100% SWADE, per GRAmel and Pinnacle's conversion guides. As always, feedback is appreciated if I missed anything. Now to start on the GM Guide...

[qdwag]

Looking forward to that GM guide getting up to date. Do let us know when it's ready! :)

[Talyn]

Thanks for doing all the above :)

I'm new and looking to get into B&B myself (SWADE). Which campaign modules can I buy from FG, that will work without conversion issues?

BBSE comes with "The Daughter of the Golden Scorpion" short (?) adventure, then the only two adventures @Atrill ever did are "Death of a Tyrant" and "Garden of Death." (Sure is a lot of 'death' in these! :p ) As always, all DLC will load just fine in both SWADE and SWD rulesets. Once I get the GM Guide and its adventure finished up, I'll give those two a lookover and see if anything needs to be tweaked, but they also need to be able to work in Golden Edition for those customers who have that and never got Steel Edition.

[qdwag]

Thanks, that's great news Talyn.

Questions:

- What is the ETA (not rushin' you, just excited to know) for the GM Guide tweaks?
- How will you manage those DLC's to be able to work in both Golden and Steel Editions?

[Talyn]

- What is the ETA (not rushin' you, just excited to know) for the GM Guide tweaks?
- How will you manage those DLC's to be able to work in both Golden and Steel Editions?

No ETA, I literally just now loaded up the XML file for it. The GRAmel conversion guide is extremely short for the GM Guide however, so in theory I could have this finished in under an hour. However, I'll need to dig in and see what else needs to be 'fixed' first.

All the DLC have common data references, that's how we maintain compatibility between SWD and SWADE rulesets, and same will apply between BBSE and BBGE. The only catch could be if BBSE changed something that creates a problem for NPCs being able to play correctly in BBGE. I do see one potential 'gotcha' already but I don't know if this particular NPC was used in those adventures yet or not.

[qdwag]

Hmm tricky.

[Talyn]

GM Guide:

[Fixed] Category name for item, hand weapon and vehicles; all lists now populate
[Fixed] Moved the parcel out of the 'reference' node to avoid a script error
[Fixed] Adventure Generator link now brings up the story template instead of a list
[Fixed] Cleaned up adventure generator tables and text
[Removed] Encounters and Random Encounters links from Library
[Added] Common Knowledge d6 and Persuasion d6 to all intelligent NPCs per SWADE guidelines
[Removed] Charisma attribute from all NPCs
[Fixed] All NPC skills to their SWADE equivalents
[Removed] Romanticism Hindrance and Silly Edges (moved to Player Guide)
[Fixed] The following tables have had their read-only status removed: Dread Star Matter Weaknesses, Officer Skill Table, Relics of the Dominions (most useful for the latter as the GM can now choose to have the table output a parcel)
[Fixed] Various text updates for FGU compatibility


The Daughter of the Golden Scorpion

[Fixed] Various text updates for FGU compatibility
[Fixed] Broken links on NPCs
[Fixed] Updated NPCs per SWADE guidelines
[Fixed] Cleaned up certain chat frames in story scenes


Player Guide

[Added] Romanticsm Hindrance and Silly Edges from GM Guide. Each contains a note specifying that they are for the particular game mode if the GM is using it.

[qdwag]

Gee. Sounds like you did an all nighter there! Well done.

Is there anything else to tweak or is this complete? Thanks again Talyn!

[Talyn]

:) If I did this correctly, these should be the only major patches. (Emphasis on 'should' since without source files I had to hunt for everything one at a time by hand so it wouldn't surprise me at all if I missed something.) Hopefully that's the case, and all future patches will just be minor hotfixes and tweaks.

I'll need to look at those two standalone adventures, although those are technically BBGE adventures so I don't know that I'll necessarily switch them over to SWADE.

[GeorgeOrr]

I've been going over the Beasts & Barbarians Steel Edition GM Guide, and one thing listed in the stores description seems to elude me. From the description in the store:

> A fully-fledged character generator.

I'm assuming I'm looking right past it, thanks for any pointers.

[qdwag]

I’m keen to find out as well~!

[Talyn]

If the publisher doesn't have their own product page (and in this case, GRAmel still only has Golden Edition on their own site!) SmiteWorks takes the description from the DriveThruRPG product page (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/229003/Beasts--Barbarians-Steel-Edition-Game-Master-Guide). The GM Guide does say it includes a "fully-fledged character generator" but no such thing exists. Closest thing I can think of would be the "Character Tales" chapter which has some optional concepts for character development.

In any case, no character creation automation exists beyond what is already in Savage Worlds.

[Talyn]

GM & Player Guides

[Added] Links to this forum thread on the 'Fantasy Grounds Edition' page.

[franckflo]

GM & Player Guides

[Added] Links to this forum thread on the 'Fantasy Grounds Edition' page.


Thanks a lot for the hard work! Looking forward to also having the archetypes/pregen added to the ruleset. That will save quite a bit of time for lazy GMs like me...

[goodmanje]

Looking forward to this!!

[Talyn]

Looking forward to this!!

To ... what?

[Hermundure]

Hi Tal, here is the copied error text:

Runtime Notice: Host session started
Ruleset Notice: Campaign database backup created.
Script Error: [string "desktop/scripts/widgetfactory_parry.lua"]:35: attempt to index local 'control' (a nil value)
Script Error: [string "desktop/scripts/widgetfactory_toughness.lua"]:35: attempt to index local 'control' (a nil value)


The steps have been:
- Launch FGC
- Create a new Campaign
- Ruleset: Savage Worlds
- Setting: Beasts & Barbarians Steel Edition
- Theme: Beasts & Barbarians Steel Edition
- Open Character selection screen
- Clicking the green +
-> Error occurs

Also, I think the writing on the UI buttons on the right side (Items, Vehicles, Encounters, Buildings) is a bit misplaced in the Theme: B&B Steel Edition. It appears to be to low and touch the button graphics. This is not the case in the B&B Gold Edition Theme, there the text is in the middle of the button.

[Talyn]

Setting Extension

[Added] Campaign Setup support

[Kyler]

Just started playing around with Beasts and Barbarians Steel Edition. Loving it so far.

I also love the theme. However, the border spacing seems off in FGU. I haven't checked the theme extension in FGC. For example, special abilities overlaps it's button and it appears to me that all buttons should appear in the more olive color of the boarder. Maybe I'm the only one experiencing this. However, I would love to use this theme for other things as well.

Screenshot attached. 42858

[Talyn]

I haven't looked in FGU yet but yeah the B&B theme always had some incorrect math in the theme and I just never got around to tweaking it. I have the next two weeks off work so I will get it taken care of (finally). Thanks for the reminder! :)

[Kyler]

Excellent. Thank you. Hope you have a great day.

[Lynnx333]

Hello Talyn,
thank you for your work.

I have noticed, that there are some wrong numbers in some items (armor table/players guide/FGU)

light armor bracers/greaves show an armor rating of 21, truly blessed by some greater gods ;) (it should be 1)

light armor suit shows armor rating 2 (should be 1)

and also when you equip different armor pieces, the armor rating adds up, but shouldn't it be the torso armor only that is added against attacks? I have not found a way to correct the wrong numbers myself, besides making new entries of these items as a workaround.

Some minor issues in the theme (not game breaking): The word modifier (black) on the modifiers field near the dice is barely readable. Same goes for the top line in the combat tracker and the rounds label in the foot of the box. If you know what should be there you can see the words on the dark backdrop. This is also noticeable in some windows like: images (group), story (group), npc (group), encounters (group) etc. The top of the tables of items, armor, weapons etc... (whenever there is black typo over the dark backdrop).

I don't know if the color of these fonts can be adjusted. I would have tinkered with this myself, but I am no good at scripting and the theme and rule set is not editable (read only).

Thank you very much for the time and effort you put into this rule set.

Best wishes from barbarian Bavaria with Beasts! :)

[Talyn]

Thought I'd give a quick update on BBSE. While it is currently on the back burner (no choice, I have projects ahead of it in the queue, a few at the specific request of Pinnacle), here is where I kinda at with the overall thought process:

1) I had requested to start working on supplements (all of which were BBGE supplements so I'd have to swap them to BBSE then update for SWADE) but GRAmel told me to not start those. No explanation given other than it "sounded" like perhaps they were working on some official guidelines to accomplish that so that I wasn't just doing the adjustments out of my arse. That was well over a year ago, and still no word on what's going on with that.

2) Beginning with Tattered Banners, practically all of the supplements use the custom Tokens, as well as BBSE already shipping with a few custom Token types. None of these are currently supported in FG; the GM and/or players have to track those manually. Some of the Tokens are directly related to the Mass Battles system. I asked Ikael last week if there is any plan to support the Mass Battles system in FG, but he (currently) does not. Someone recently released an extension in the FG Forge that does support the basic SWADE Mass Battles system. BBSE uses a customized version of that so while I have not yet used the extension, I don't feel it is the right thing to do to release an official product that requires a third-party extension to use. So for the time being, if GRAmel even permits me to release any supplements on FG, they will not have Mass Battles or Token support.

3) I am, however, giving some conceptual thoughts to the Heroic Bennies (Golden and Steel) that BBSE uses. The Player Guide lists a few, then most or all of the adventures also provide new ones and it's suggested that the GM create them for their campaigns. So my current thoughts is these should be a new record type with their own Master Index window (ie. sidebar window) which allows the GM to drag/drop them onto a character as well as create their own custom Heroic Bennies. I'll be discussing the idea with Ikael and when we come up with a final decision, hopefully Heroic Bennies will be included in the extension for the next (?) update I am able to provide.

[goodmanje]

Thanks for the update.

[Talyn]

Additional problem I just discovered: several of the supplements and adventures are priced (on DriveThruRPG which GRAmel seems to be using as their primary sales outlet now) below the FG Store minimum of $4.99. I do have an idea for my next BBSE project(s) that I'll have to run by SmiteWorks for approval, but shouldn't be an issue since we did the same thing for one of my final projects for Castles & Crusades. ::hint::

[Kyler]

Ever have a chance to look at the theme?

[Talyn]

Ever have a chance to look at the theme?

I did, yes. I got the sidebar more or less 'fixed' (could still use a tweak probably) but in the process of correcting the bottom bar, I somehow chopped off the whole bottom section of that image.

I also tracked down the 'modcollector' fonts and have adjusted the color, although that one is just gonna end up coming down to needing a different image than the one packaged in SWADE. I have one in mind but I have to show it to QA and have them ask GRAmel if they have the source image for me or not so that might take some time.

Probably what I'll do in the interim is just release a short update/hotfix to at least switch the font colors so they're readable. May or may not include the theme fix in that one, but once I get an answer on the image I'm looking for I have to release a larger update anyway that removes the Arcane Background Lua scripts and add in the new data format that allows the ABs to be contained in the records.

I'm not home from work til Friday night so I'll miss the deadline for next week's update (Sep 7) so that may give me time to cram stuff into a larger patch for Sep 14. Fingers crossed anyway...

[Caratacus]

Hi,
I have been starting to run a campaign in Beasts and Barbarians Steel Edition, but have found an error that I've now worked around but you may be able to fix easily. Currently, Arcane Background (Path of Enlightenment) is not listed on the Powers "Arcane Background" button, hence the automation is broken for all related powers. As one of my players wishes to play a monk, you can see the need.
Thanks for this otherwise excellent piece of work,

Caratacus

[Talyn]

BBSE has not yet been updated to the new AB functions in the 5.4.1+ ruleset. I'll hop on that immediately so it gets pushed next Tuesday.

[Caratacus]

Now I see why you're known as a Celestial Paragon.
That would be awesome, thanks,

Caratacus

[mmainvi]

Hello...I know this isn't a rules forum, but I posted this on the PEG site, and since you are working on the conversion, you may know or direct me to the answer...Thanks

"I will be playing a Blindseeker monk in Beasts & Barbarians using the SWADE rules. What modifications to the backlash rules for the AB:Enlightenment and Blindseeker edge are required to make them compatible to SWADE? Should the AB:Enlightenment have the same rules as AB:Gifted? Should the Blindseeker backlash still last one hour?"

[Talyn]

@Caratacus: Well, I got the ABs all finished then noticed some other things I meant to get to which led me to discover some things from the previous developer which are just plain wrong so... this will be a somewhat more comprehensive update than I had originally planned. :p

@mmainvi: I'm somewhat unfamiliar but the BBSE SWADE Conversion Document that GRAmel published states:


All backlashes now happen on Critical Failures.

Which is not terribly informative, but I think the original rules (at least the ones I was reading awhile ago for Enlightened and Obscurement) had more specific criteria for backlash so it's simplified now for SWADE?

[mmainvi]

Thanks for your response. We decided to keep the original BBSE backlash rules with the Critical Failure modification.

[Talyn]

Setting extension

[Removed] Arcane Background registration scripts (deprecated)


Theme extension

[Fixed] Various tweaks; still very much a WIP


Player Guide

[Added] Drag/drop Arcane Background support (SWADE v5.4.1+)
[Fixed] Arcane Background (Enlightenment) and (Obscurement) are now two separate records (as are their appropriate Skills) for easier management.
[Fixed[ Hindrances with (Minor or Major) changed to (Minor/Major) for consistency.
[Fixed] 'Hand Weapons' category changed to 'Melee Weapons' for consistency.
[Fixed] Rollable tables moved out of the 'reference' node so the output can be changed and tables can be edited if desired.
[Fixed] Vehicle record nodes updated to current ruleset requirements
[Updated] Vehicle Table overhauled to match SWADE Player Guide layout
[Fixed] Ammunition moved out of 'Common Gear' into the proper 'Ammunition' category
[Added] Ammunition Table
[Fixed] Weapon notes with parry updated to [Parry +N] effects where applicable
[Updated] Melee and Ranged Weapon tables overhauled to match SWADE Player Guide layout


Couple quick notes:

If I recall, the new Arcane Backgrounds and/or the AB Edges are either missing some text or have incorrect text. I'll fix that as I go, but wanted to get the functionality patched in ASAP for games in progress/about to begin, such as the comment above.
Regarding the theme, I will fully admit to finally just getting frustrated and disabling several of the frame definitions while trying to figure out what was going on and why the 'fixes' weren't fixing anything. I did finally get more or less the results I wanted in some areas, but most likely removed theming in other areas that I wasn't looking at. The theme was built by the previous developer and it's being a PITA to work with. If anyone finds things that are wonky, please post a screenshot and how to duplicate so I can try to track it down.
Regarding the 'Modifiers' text, I still have not located a decent B&B graphic to use here but I did set the font to white so it's at least readable now. Like the note above said, everything theme-related is extremely WIP. :)

[Caratacus]

Thanks for all the great work.

I have found that the Brute Edge is not automated to add its damage bonuses, I've had to input the raise bonus individually on to the weapon attacks. Is there a way to automate +1 damage on all melee attacks, and +2 with a raise? I've can get the +1 on the Brute Edge, but don't know the script to get the +2 raise bonus. Thanks again,

Caratacus

[Talyn]

Some Edge automation is on my To Do list for both BBSE and Lankhmar so, yes, it's coming but no ETA yet... =/

[Caratacus]

Thanks,
Is there a script I can write for a quick fix? As I said, I can get it to auto add the +1 to all melee damage rolls, but I don't know how to program in the Raise at +2.

[Teotimus]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but with the last update and the changes in the sidebar, the text in the buttons with the B&B theme is totally illegible. Is any update on this theme expected to solve this?

[Moon Wizard]

Please update and try again. I adjusted the B&B theme to use the default SW sidebar theming.

Regards,
JPG

[Lynnx333]

Don't know if it is already mentioned elsewhere. When I start Savage Worlds with the B&B Setting expansion, I get a console error that seems not to hinder gaming at all, just looks buggy on system start.

50443

[Teotimus]

I got the same error too, yes.

Thanks for the update with the new sidebar buttons, they look awesome!

[Moon Wizard]

I just pushed a hot fix to address this for B&B, Shaintar, DL:WW and DL:LC extensions.

Regards,
JPG

[Lynnx333]

Thank you, Moon Wizard. Works fine now. :)