Can we get an updated ETA for 2.0?

[Lee S.]

Title says it all.

I believe it was prviously stated some time ago that you may have thing ready to go for late January/early February...though I could be off my nut. I'm just wondering if you can give us a general update?

[Cantstanzya]

That was just estimates from people that were part of the beta. No release date, or estimate has been given by the developers.

[Doswelk]

I thought I read somewhere that there would be something ready for iCON.

[Dachannien]

You're gonna have to help us out with that, Doswelk :) Wikipedia lists a whole bunch (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICON_convention) of conventions by that name, and a Google search for "iCON" is pretty much useless unless you are looking for icons ;)

Edit: Never mind, I just saw the other post in the Tavern that lists the date in the title. :o

[Sigurd]

I dont want to sound negative but in 3 years "important messages" has 15 entries.

Its a nice program, good people involved but get used to being a mushroom.

- kept in the dark.


Sigurd

[LordTomar]

I dont want to sound negative but in 3 years "important messages" has 15 entries.

Its a nice program, good people involved but get used to being a mushroom.

- kept in the dark.


Sigurd

/sarcasm on

Hey its only been a year and a half since the last update to the program. What more do you want?

/sarcasm off

This is basically what ive been thinking for a while.

[Nokameeno]

Just curious as to how often you would expect to have them put out updates? Microsoft puts out updates must less regularly to their software products...and you have to purchase the upgrade. Perhaps everyone should stop the petty whining and wait for the FREE update to come when the dev team feels that it is ready....

I don't know perhaps I am wrong....

[AndyPan]

I don't know perhaps I am wrong....

Yeah, pretty much.

An update on a program is RADICALLY different than an update ON the program update. No one is expecting the program to be ready at this very second, but everyone is curious as to when we might be seeing it. Considering we've been hearing about FG2 for close to a year already, I don't think asking when we can expect its release is at all unreasonable. If the developers did not wish to have people asking when the product would be released, then perhaps they should have played their cards a little closer to the chest, and not said anything about FG2 until ready for release. It's a little late for that now.

I don't think anyone is looking for concrete, set in stone, release dates. I know I personally would like to know if we can expect it in the next couple of months or so, of even if it's likely to be another year. Knowing either way will make a difference to whether I start typing up new content into FG now, or wait for the new format. So even the haziest guess-timate would be better than what we've gotten so far.

Just my two cents worth.

[LordTomar]

At this point I doubt I would give a stated release date much credence. They have been given and those dates have passed by, usually without any word. Right now im just at the point of "wait and see, but dont hold your breath."

And I wonder how many people after hearing about all the changes for FG2 and that it would be realsed "soon" (said about a year ago) and decided to put off work on FG rulesets/mods untill the release.

Ohh and Nokameeno, they have been using the upcomming release of FG2.0 as a selling point for a year now. And we have had to work with the current version for that long with its problems, because they have said they would not put out any fixxes for it because of the impending FG2.0 release. So yeah your wrong.

[joshuha]

I am a big time FG supporter like many and even as a member of the beta I am seriously starting to look at other tools out there.

While none of them may be able to beat the atmosphere that FG gives you they do more of the things that I want to do NOW and have been putting off because of 2.0.

Thats not to say I am abandoning FG but since all my serious campaigns of non d20 systems have been put on hold for awhile I need to find somewhere else to start them as like many of you I don't want to have to redo all that work if the release is any time soon.

[Sigurd]

In fairness I want to qualify what I have said.

There was a limited announcment 3 months ago when they announced the beta. There were also some screenshots you can see in the Tavern. But notwithstaning, there is so little user information about development!

I love the program.
I'm happy to give credence to any plans shared by the developers.
I'm happy to hear about deadlines, slipped deadlines, challenges, successes, failures - any of it. Don't be afraid to tell it like it is.

If you don't hear anything from a group for a year at a time you have to wonder if they are still active.

If I plan to work with software into the future - and its a going concern - I hope that they share their outlook.

I have helped dozens of people and said nice things about this program whenever I thought it would help. I may have been one of the first to buy it at RPGNOW - gave it a 5/5 when it came out.


People on this board have been very helpful to the program and continue to be but we get no information about whats going on with it!

Does anyone think it strange that a DM who uses a program to frame his campaign and commits to using a program into the next 'x' years would like to know whats going on?

How bout commiting to a state of the union address ?

There are no axes out here, everyone I have talked to is grateful for the program so far. But it becomes rediculous to listen to and try to help customers with their problems when we have no information about the future.


Sigurd

/rant

[Ram Tyr]

This post contains my opinions, nothing more. While I disagree with some other community members in this post, I hope that I managed it without being offensive. Courteous discourse is possible online, I hope that we; regardless what position we take; can display it here.

Perhaps everyone should stop the petty whining and wait for the FREE update to come when the dev team feels that it is ready....

I don't know perhaps I am wrong....
I agree with this sentiment without labeling the complaints as petty whining. Each of us is gifted with varying degrees of patience and what seems like pettiness to some over the delay may be extreme displays of patience for another. That being said, I want to note that I am in two campaigns that are both approaching two years in length. Fantasy Grounds has worked great for us, including with six or seven players in a session spread over the entire planet. In any event, Nokameeno, you are not wrong, though perhaps not diplomatic. :)


If the developers did not wish to have people asking when the product would be released, then perhaps they should have played their cards a little closer to the chest, and not said anything about FG2 until ready for release. It's a little late for that now.
Sadly, this is the lesson to learn. I wish that the developers had 'played it a little closer to the chest' and hope that they do this in the future. There is an extent to which Smiteworks can benefit from close community relations. However, when it comes to product updates they must either be entirely transparent or entirely reserved. They have shown that they are unable / unwilling to be transparent, so reserved it is. I disagree that it is too late to adopt this model. It will disappoint some community members to learn of this shift. Then, things will settle down.


Ohh and Nokameeno, they have been using the upcomming release of FG2.0 as a selling point for a year now. And we have had to work with the current version for that long with its problems, because they have said they would not put out any fixxes for it because of the impending FG2.0 release. So yeah your wrong.
First, as I did above, let me note that you need not put the 'relish' on your disagreement by saying 'yeah your wrong.' There is nothing wrong with disagreeing and, frankly, in this case there is no being wrong.

I have already stated above I disagree with the position expressed in that quote. Also, I am not sure what you mean by using FG 2.0 as a selling point. I took a quick run through the website and it is not mentioned anywhere but in the forums. Surely Smiteworks displays their selling points on the screenshots page or the features page. That is good marketing. We community members may be mentioning it as a selling point when we discuss FG with friends, etc. Perhaps the lesson to take from this experience is that, if this makes us uncomfortable, we ought not participate in the marketing of a product if we do not agree with the level of transparency they display.

In the alternative, if they have been using FG 2 as a selling point, then their sales will determine whether or not that is a good idea. Rest assured that if their sales take a hit due to their own actions, they will respond. That is capitalism at its best.


Does anyone think it strange that a DM who uses a program to frame his campaign and commits to using a program into the next 'x' years would like to know whats going on?

How bout commiting to a state of the union address ?

There are no axes out here, everyone I have talked to is grateful for the program so far. But it becomes rediculous to listen to and try to help customers with their problems when we have no information about the future.
I do not think it strange. In fact, I think it is inevitable that this issue be an area of contention given the variability of human nature. As I said above, I do not believe that Smiteworks handles this very well. However, I also do not believe that I need fret over this issue. I do recommend that we not help others in the community if we are uncomfortable doing so. If it became true that the entire community saw the current development model as flawed, then Smiteworks would note the change in community behavior and adapt or accept the change. Either way, nobody in the community ought do anything which they are uncomfortable doing. (Online or in person! :))

On some level we also only have ourselves to blame for the current situation. Continually, community members suggest their 'best guess' for when FG 2 will be released. The community accepts the guess and the wait continues without Smiteworks having to respond officially. This is precisely how we ended up here. Smiteworks is to blame for that only to the extent that they did not ask community members to stop.

Hopefully, in the end, we can let Smiteworks respond when they feel they must and be satisfied with the great product. When FG 2 comes, we can all rejoice as the quality of the product improves. If there is nobody left here when FG 2 is released, then we will be comfortably playing in another application. We will not even notice... If an application releases to an empty community, does it actually count as an upgrade when nobody is using it? :)

A word of caution, however. Remember that as soon as FG 2 is released we will wait expectantly for 2.01...this is never ending...

Later.

[Sir Bayard]

Well, I just say hey, I haven't been waiting as long as these other guys, so I can wait a little longer. lol (my 2 cents on the matter)

[MaineCoon]

A word of caution, however. Remember that as soon as FG 2 is released we will wait expectantly for 2.01...this is never ending...

One of the biggest concerns, at least as it appears to me, is that the ruleset data format change in 2.0 will break existing content. Thus, many people have held off working on/releasing content until 2.0 is out. This is having a negative impact on the community as a whole. New content releases are effectively frozen indefinitely.

When 2.0 comes out, we as users may be wanting 2.01 for minor feature updates and patches, but we will probably not be 'holding off' for it. On the other hand, people who have been waiting to produce/release new content can start publishing new material without hesitation, as they do not have a major compatability-breaking update visible to them on the horizon.

[Sigurd]

Ramza I think you missunderstand me.


This is not fretting. The umpteenth user asked when was 2.0 coming out. I thought it only fair to represent what we dont know about the process. I hope this comes across as, perhaps painful, Constructive criticism.



"On some level we also only have ourselves to blame for the current situation. Continually, community members suggest their 'best guess' for when FG 2 will be released. The community accepts the guess and the wait continues without Smiteworks having to respond officially. This is precisely how we ended up here. Smiteworks is to blame for that only to the extent that they did not ask community members to stop."
I think that is rationalization and double speak. We have no knowledge or control of the situation - we are not to blame. Every day well meaning customers try to answer other customer enquiries with no information to go on. People helping people here is not a problem it is the best part of the board. Official responses do not cost Smiteworks anything except an effort for clear thinking on their part. The absense of them creates confusion.


Hopefully, in the end, we can let Smiteworks respond when they feel they must and be satisfied with the great product. When FG 2 comes, we can all rejoice as the quality of the product improves. If there is nobody left here when FG 2 is released, then we will be comfortably playing in another application. We will not even notice... If an application releases to an empty community, does it actually count as an upgrade when nobody is using it?
You may ascribe whatever motivation you like to smiteworks but in the meantime people who use their product are jumping ship for competitors with whom they have a better raport. Smiteworks Reputation is suffering not for the quality its code but because (IMHO) of a poor choice to not keep people in the loop. "Playing it closer to the chest" is also bad advice because it is very out dated advice in the world of software.


I do recommend that we not help others in the community if we are uncomfortable doing so. If it became true that the entire community saw the current development model as flawed, then Smiteworks would note the change in community behavior and adapt or accept the change. Either way, nobody in the community ought do anything which they are uncomfortable doing. (Online or in person! :))
Thanks for the truism. The point I was trying to make is that, using myself as an example, the lack of information hurts the promotion of the product on the website. People's advice for the most part is necessarily unsatisfying because it is left to be based on heresay and guesses. Eventually this becomes a disservice to everyone and you poison the relationship. The website is generally not about how D&D works but how the program works but the manual is old, there are no development journals, and there is too little information about the future. These become central points of discussion but discussions we can't have. This website reduces the user support burden for smiteworks but in turn they should make it a source for up to date information about the program.


That is a viewpoint without platitudes and without political speak. One can always bring up both sides of an arguement and call for stillness. Yet we have a burden to represent the worthy issues with weight if we would like to help and create improvement.

Lastly, I dont for a minute think that this is not a great change for the program. From what I can see they are taking on far more in terms of scripting and language support. I think they are keeping the basic feel alive (which is great) etc. etc... I think Smiteworks has underestimated how important it is to inform your fanbase and I think they have sold us short on understanding their challenges. Some of the documentation for the program could be hammered out here in the open on the boards. Its a great resource for many things including making sure your wording reaches others. In light of this, I simply dont understand why they don't crow a little about what they are doing?

Sigurd

[Aescleal]

I simply dont understand why they don't crow a little about what they are doing?

Sigurd

I could not agree more on this last statement. I honestly don't understand why Smiteworks does not brag more about their product. It's simply the best I've seen out there, and getting better. And while I wish I wasn't agreeing about the lack of public information regarding 2.0, I have to agree there as well. Even a real FAQ to answer stuff like "When will FGII arive; even what quarter (Q2, Q3?)". Or how about scheduled goodies, either weekly, bi-weekly, or even monthly. But weekly would be best. "This week we worked on (blah blah blah)... and things are really looking up".
Other winning companies do this, and it greatly satisfies the community.

[Dachannien]

It's easy to understand why SmiteWorks doesn't give us a release date (even an estimated one): time and again, anytime a company says they plan to release on a particular date but then end up delaying it, they get torn to shreds by their community. If I were Ged or Dupre or Goblin-King, I wouldn't want to go through that, especially since SmiteWorks is a small company (so when you criticize SmiteWorks, you're really just criticizing the devs directly).

What I'd love to see is an "open beta" of sorts. Once the XML/Lua schema is finalized (meaning that you can make new rulesets and future 2.x updates won't break them), I'd happily use the new version with my group, even if it didn't yet include all the features that are planned. All the subsequent updates would just be extra bonuses :)

Ultimately, though, this is SmiteWorks's call. Even without version 2, FG is still a good product, and both groups I'm in (one as DM, the other as a player) are already enjoying it.

[sunbeam60]

I've been with FG from the start and it's the only program I would use, no doubt. I too gave it 5/5 from RPG Now and convinced my entire group to start using it.

FG rocks.

It's not the lack of release data that frustrates me, it's the lack of correspondence. A weekly post, about 10 lines, from the developers in a format like this:

- XML node reference issues no longer crashes
- Bug 10212 (link), 11003 (link) assigned
- Automatic skill updates now roughly 60% complete
- Current release data: When it's done.

Would be juuuuuuuuust fine for me. At the moment it feels like I'm standing on the wrong side of the Great Wall, yelling "hey let me in".

A little information from the developers would be fantastic, even with a "when it's done" disclaimer permanently stabled to any update.

Bjorn

[Themadadmin]

Something to give you the feeling of hope.

[Aescleal]

SmiteWorks is a small company (so when you criticize SmiteWorks, you're really just criticizing the devs directly).

Absolutely, and I'll be the first to stand in a line and preach the FG gospil to anyone that will listen. Infact, I did just that today!

But I still stand by my statement. While Smiteworks is KING, with a product like FantasyGrounds, they really need to step up and get their community excited. And weekly updates would be all it would take!

Peace,
Aescleal

[Ged]

Sorry for cross-posting, but writing this (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=36307&postcount=19) message part of my thoughts were in this thread. No ETA for FGII right now, but some flimsy remarks on improvements to communication we are to make.

[Aescleal]

We will start collecting the more important known bugs in the FAQ (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/faq.php). The list is empty right now, but will be populated soon.

We'll also consider ways to provide you guys with meaningful information in a timely manner in the future. A weekly update will probably be the main information channel for information/news/tidings that matter (with respect to Fantasy Grounds). Also, we will improve our availability and visibility here on the message boards. Speaking of availability, I want to use this opportunity to thank the kind community members who have often provided help to those in need in such times of the day when we in Europe are asleep (and during the rest of the day too) - thank you!

Sweet, exactly what I (err, we) hoped for! It's very exciting to her this news, so keep it up and keep it coming!
Finally, a big thank you goes out to Smiteworks for bringing us FG and soon FGII.

Cheers, and I'm looking forward to those weekly progress thingies!

Oh, and even though I don't post often, I look at these boards many times. So a big thanks to all the familiar names out there that help guys like me!

Cheers,
Aescleal

[Sigurd]

Absolutely, Thanks Ged & Dev Team.

I think you'll be surprised by the level everyone understands that challenges take time if people are in the loop.

Looking forward to it .

I think everyone in my gaming group will read your weekly updates - they are appreciated.

Sigurd

[Themadadmin]

Absolutely, Thanks Ged & Dev Team.

I think you'll be surprised by the level everyone understands that challenges take time if people are in the loop.

Looking forward to it .

I think everyone in my gaming group will read your weekly updates - they are appreciated.

Sigurd

Looking forward to it as well. Thanks.

[Oberoten]

Ohyes... This hits the spot. :)
JUST what we need to get people back to being more active.

[sunbeam60]

Yup, colour me happy if weekly updates are on the cards.

Thanks again!

[sunbeam60]

Sorry for cross-posting, but writing this (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=36307&postcount=19) message part of my thoughts were in this thread. No ETA for FGII right now, but some flimsy remarks on improvements to communication we are to make.
I know I'm flogging a dead horse and all, and I'm now moving myself into the "annoying pest" area, but it's been a week ;)

[Dachannien]

I know I'm flogging a dead horse and all, and I'm now moving myself into the "annoying pest" area, but it's been a week ;)

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5548

[sunbeam60]

(...walks away embarrassed...)

[Tokuriku]

Well, I know I have not been quite active on the forums but if part of the notion of becoming more transparent or active with the community here involves you choosing "Community Advisors" or the such, count me interested in the position.

[grider]

I hope this comes out soon. I have been really looking at other options...I had picked FG for me (and my group), but all the waiting has me trying out Klooge, but I like the look of FG so much better...Can I wait forever? No...but, a little longer-maybe.

[MaineCoon]

I hope this comes out soon. I have been really looking at other options...I had picked FG for me (and my group), but all the waiting has me trying out Klooge, but I like the look of FG so much better...Can I wait forever? No...but, a little longer-maybe.

The upgrade is free; you could start using it right now, then upgrade when it becomes available.

[Nokameeno]

I think Grider is just speaking about the new version as I recall having seen posts from him/her some time ago concerning connecting to others in FG and possibly opening a game as well....not certain though.

Grider, is that you are concerned with, the enhancements that come with ver 2.0 rather as you are a current owner?

[grider]

I think Grider is just speaking about the new version as I recall having seen posts from him/her some time ago concerning connecting to others in FG and possibly opening a game as well....not certain though.

Yup. I (he) have (has) connected and played/ran games before. I enjoyed it, but there was just some people that had quirky problems. And, sometimes a crash would happen at the most annoying times.



Grider, is that you are concerned with, the enhancements that come with ver 2.0 rather as you are a current owner?

Yup. I can't wait for what these guys cook up with this release. I am betting it will be more stable and even better...which "2.0" implies (I hope).

I stopped playing because I heard there would be a better combat tracking mechanism and the crashes were being fixed. This conveniently helped me with more time to document my world.

Anyway...the news from beta users and finally regular updates has me getting excited.

[Stormonu]

Heh. I just saw an advertisement in Dungeon mag for FG2. Since my subscription arrives about a month ahead of the street date, I wonder if we will be seeing a demo for 2.0 very soon.