Considering buying FG [Archive] - Fantasy Grounds Message Boards

View Full Version : Considering buying FG

Kurgan

December 13th, 2006, 09:46

Hiya,

I'm debating whether to buy this program, but am trying to weigh the pros and cons. Your comments would be most welcome.

On the plus side, it's the coolest looking of the lot. I just love the appearance and "feel" of it, as compared to others. It looks much more like an actual virtual tabletop, whereas most of the other programs I've seen tend to be more like a mud/mush/chat sort of setup.

On the con side, the player's version (aka Lite) costs money, too. I was a little taken aback by that, as others tend to charge for the "full" version (for referees), and allow basic players to use a limited version for free.

The other con, --I think--, is that I can't find any actual downloads for using various games. Lots of discussions about creating "rules sets" in the forums, but nothing seems to actually be available.

I think, from what I'm reading, that this program may be different than what I was expecting/assuming as regards using other games with it. Typically there would be character sheets, dice rollers, and other game-specific applets that would "plug in" to the software, allowing it to be used with a specific game. From what I'm reading here, FG takes a different approach, and the added "rules set" needs to have actual gamebook material input into it, which would eliminate the possibility of sharing it for reasons of copyright (unless the company gave the OK for it).

Am I understanding that correctly? I guess I'm really just wanting to understand if this can be used "out of the box" for various games, or if I'd have to pretty much transcribe gamebooks and materials into a compatible rules set (not a pleasant thought) before I'd be able to use this with them.

And yeah, before anyone makes the obvious comment, I completely loathe the d20 system, so would not want this for use with that system, but would love to use it, if possible, with others. Examples of favorite games I'd like to use this with: Call of Cthulhu, Powers & Perils, The Morrow Project, Star Trek (LUG or Decipher), Twilight 2K, Bloodshadows (Masterbook), Shadowrun, and most of all, 7th Sea. :)

Ps. Can this program be skinned or themed to match different games one might be playing at the time?

Thanks!

richvalle

December 13th, 2006, 14:22

Howdy,

Yes, each client has to buy a Lite version of the software. As this software tends to be attactive to people that have busy lifes, jobs ect that want to get back to playing with old friends, I don't think the cost is much of an issue for most. I know it was not for our group.

Honestly, if you were going to sell software like this it would make WAY more sense to chart for the client version and give the DM version away for free (but not allow it to connect as a client). You can have 1 dm running a game for 2-10 people... why only get paid once for that group? DM's tend to spend more $$ on books and material anyway so it would be nice to give them a break on the software.

You can buy the software in a bundle and share it out to the group to get some savings.

FG, by default, is made to be played with D20 SRD DnD rules. That said, there is nothing inside that MAKES you play with those rules. FG mainly provides a place to roll dice, chat, view maps and images, move mini's/tokens around and see the character sheet.

That last bit is where you are going to get stuck on. If you wanted to play another game it would be best to have the right character sheet inside. BUT, that is the only thing that really needs to be changed. You CAN go though and add all the rules ect if you like but there is no reason other thenn convenience to do so. In fact, though we play with d20 rules we don't even use the built in rule set or even the one I bought from Digital Adventures (though it is much better then the default ruleset) but just use an online SRD web page to look things up.

There are some rulesets that have been made by various people. But, as you say, there are licence issues with shareing such things. If you look around you can see screen shots of some. I remember a nice one for Star Wars and one very cool looking Oriental one.

Yes, the whole FG interface can be skinned as you would see in the screen shots.

Hope that helps. Let us know if you have any other questions.

rv

Ram Tyr

December 13th, 2006, 14:59

Use of the forum search turned up tons of stuff. Some links from the search result below.

Currently, creating a ruleset requires knowledge of XML, or a willingness to learn. For more on XML, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xml

In the next version (in beta at the moment) the devs has said that FG will also use LUA. For more on LUA, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lua_%28programming_language%29

A ruleset in FG is a specific 'entity' within the program. FG can run on multiple rulesets. FG comes with a bare essentials (not the complete SRD) d20 ruleset. There are a couple of rulesets available for free and for sale. (d20 Modern, AE, complete SRD, and I believe Iron Heroes are for sale off the top of my head.) I know that some users have made other rulesets from their favorite RPG for their own personal use. I also know there is at least one publisher that has been on the FG forums asking questions as s/he prepares to craft a ruleset for his/her system. If you want to use a different system the place to go is to the publisher of the system. They have to give permission to create any product that relies on their product. The ones mentioned above are examples of publishers permitting their system to be presented in Fantasy Grounds.

Let me pause and note that FG is coming out with version 2.0. All that purchased the current version will get 2.0 as a free upgrade. The use of LUA is one of the main goals for the devs with this version as it makes FG more customizable.

The ruleset in FG is not required to run a campaign. Everyone can just refer to their books or help each other out with references. By no means is a custom FG ruleset necessary. Some people love to play, this is another avenue that they can release those energies. Also, some people want the information in the FG and are willing to purchase the ruleset. Only the DM need have the ruleset for her campaign. Players have access to the info through the DM (as the DM hosts the session).

Ok, so with a custom ruleset the DM can change things like character sheets, die available to roll, background window image, images used for onscreen buttons (such as a d20 book for the d20 ruleset), and textual information (such as the rules available for reference). This is most likely not an exhaustive list.

I play in a campaign with someone that has crafted a custom ruleset. The first thing he did was change the background window image. He then began adding campaign specific information to the textual information available to players. He then started changing rules in the textual information available to the players to reflect the house rules.

Check out the following page as a visual reference:
https://forums.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2964

Ignore that it is advertising for a free product, for the time being. (The product is a module not a ruleset, so these images show you the default visuals for FG.) I point it out so you can see some screenshots. The leftmost screenshot shows you the chat window (furthest left), the die (below the chat window), the token box (right of the chat window and uppermost), DM note on the setting (just right of the token box and uppermost), the five control buttons for the DM (furthest right and uppermost), a monster info window (labeled Zombie), the map (largest window revealing a three room building and multiple tokens), and the buttons for the available reference information for the DM (the book icons running up and down along the right edge of the screen. The window also has three golden buttons surrounding the zombie window. These buttons are the icons for minimzed windows. So, if the zombie window was minimized it would be replaced with a golden button. The buttons running along the bottom edge of the screen are the hotkeys, these are fully customizable by each player. In this image, this is the DM screen so the hotkeys seem to be tied mostly to setting information.

Changing the ruleset would allow you to change the window background. In the image the default wooden table background is visible under all the windows. You could also change the icons for the five control buttons, and the buttons for reference information. You could change the presentation (color, font, etc.) of the text windows.

If you want to see what someone has done with a custom character sheet: (this is part of the ruleset)
https://forums.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4365
https://forums.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4734
https://forums.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4640
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4899
https://forums.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5053

Ruleset change example which is very different:
https://forums.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5060
https://fallensunasylum.org/images/screenshot.jpg

Let me say that a clone of Risk (the board game) was made to run on FG and is available at a fan site, so FG is quite flexible! You can see the announcement here: https://forums.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5035

If you have read this much, I suggest reading these:
https://forums.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2449
https://forums.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4493

This will give you and idea of how technical it is and allow you to see that some utterly inexperienced folks have been able to learn how to do it with patience.

FG Feature list: https://forums.fantasygrounds.com/features/
FG Screenshots: https://forums.fantasygrounds.com/screenshots/
FG Forums: https://forums.fantasygrounds.com/community/

Enjoy the show!

Later.

mr_h

December 13th, 2006, 15:35

Just for reference sake, I created a Top Secret SI Ruleset so my friends and I could play it. The most robust part about it is the charsheet...it has all the basics.

Some of the rules are included, none of the equipment is. We refer to the book for it. If all we had was the character sheet, we could play just fine.

So in other words, you dont need a FULL ruleset, if you have the data handy elsewhere:)

Edit: Oh, as for purchasing it. You can buy it in bundles and save a few bucks. The price seems high, but when you compare it to a regular computer game, it's nothing. You have unlimited replay value, and the game can change constantly. I bought a Full and 4 client licenses all at once and I don't regret the purchase at all.

Griogre

December 15th, 2006, 21:22

One of the reasons I choose to buy FG was the ability to play games with it "out of the box". Ultimately FG is a die roller, chat room, and battlemap with tokens/minis and battlemap pen.

Comparing Fantasy Grounds to a face to face game - FG at its core is everything *but* your rule books and GM screen and scenario notes. FG is the part that normally sits out in the middle of the table in a face to face game.

The "ruleset" corresponds to your rulebooks and character sheets in a face to face game. In a face to face game where you and your players know the rules you seldom open your book, but you will look at the character sheet(s) all the time. That is why I believe the character sheet is the most important part of a ruleset. If you want to type the game's entire rules or important charts into a xml file, then that's great - but there is nothing just stopping you from opening your game's rulebooks either while playing. Rulesets are not required to start playing and are in fact completely optional.

You may also hear the term "module". A module is the GM's scenario notes. They may be as little or much as you want. If you have voice software (which I recommend) then you can literally read off the scenario from existing notes you have or just make it up on the fly.

I was already running an online game when I and my group made to decision to switch to FG. There is a bulk discount if you buy multiple licenses from this site. To take advantage of that I bought all the copies at once on a credit card and told the players to pay me through paypal for their copies. As their payments hit I sent them the links and keys. We were already been playing online, but I had allocated an hour to getting everyone up and connected - it actually took 20 minutes. Granted this was a best case scenario, I had configured my router with the demo and we already had working voice chat which allowed us to minimize confusion and give answers to questions. Still, it illustrates why I got the software over its competitors - I got it and was using it immediately to run a game. I was running D&D, but I don’t think that matters. I could have been just as well have been running Skull and Crossbones or V&V.

Kurgan

December 16th, 2006, 06:15

Thanks for the responses.

As I consider what I've read, a few more questions have come to mind, so I hope you'll indulge me. :)

1. Does FG connect client-to-client, or is it dependant on a central "FG" server? I have this nasty habit of taking my time to find "just the right" program to fit my needs, only to have it immediately bought-out by some other, big company that does an entire rewrite, etc. (Or the company goes out of business.) If it's client-to-client, no prob, we'd still be able to use the software no matter what happens. Or, heck, could a GM choose to act as his own server for his players? That would be cool, too.

2. Is there a central repository (now or in the works) for legal downloads of game-related items. Not full rules sets, obviously, but just character sheet, background, token & icons, and that sort of thing. As a potential buyer, I'll admit, that's the first thing I looked for here, and couldn't find it. As fellow gamers, you'll know just what I mean when I say that the first thing most gamers do when looking at a new RPG is flip straight to the character sheet, just to get a quick idea of the setup. Being able to see what character sheets and add-ons are already available, and thus give the impression that the respective games can be played with this software, would be a definite plus. A lot of people will enjoy "getting in there" and making things from scratch, reading the how-to manuals and the like. Heh, not me. I just wanna game, and I'm eager to see things that will make that easier, that I don't have to make myself. :)

3. I've been reading in the forums about using PDFs, and the existing methods seem incredibly tedious and unreliable. As I was reading, though, a thought occurred to me. If one can input images for maps and such, why couldn't we simply do the same for pages from a book? I often find myself exporting all the pages as JPGs, so that I can resize them and make a PDF smaller and more manageable, so couldn't we import those same images into FG as albums or collections (giving the appearance of being a book)? I very much like this idea, for both its simplicity and the possibilities it opens up. Sure, the text wouldn't be searchable, but that's no biggie. If I'm holding an actual book in my hand, it's not searchable either. <Chuckle> (Plus, this would allow us to retain the artwork and graphics from the books.)

What would be even nicer is if we could "load" various PDFs onto the tabletop. Boy, that sure would be nice.

Thanks!

And yeah, I think I'm gonna shell out for this one, so positive answers to the above would just be icing on the cake. :)

Oberoten

December 16th, 2006, 07:31

Thanks for the responses.

As I consider what I've read, a few more questions have come to mind, so I hope you'll indulge me. :)

1. Does FG connect client-to-client, or is it dependant on a central "FG" server? I have this nasty habit of taking my time to find "just the right" program to fit my needs, only to have it immediately bought-out by some other, big company that does an entire rewrite, etc. (Or the company goes out of business.) If it's client-to-client, no prob, we'd still be able to use the software no matter what happens. Or, heck, could a GM choose to act as his own server for his players? That would be cool, too.

Rejoice, for Fg Doth indeed host locally. (As long as it has port 1802 open. :) )

2. Is there a central repository (now or in the works) for legal downloads of game-related items. Not full rules sets, obviously, but just character sheet, background, token & icons, and that sort of thing. As a potential buyer, I'll admit, that's the first thing I looked for here, and couldn't find it. As fellow gamers, you'll know just what I mean when I say that the first thing most gamers do when looking at a new RPG is flip straight to the character sheet, just to get a quick idea of the setup. Being able to see what character sheets and add-ons are already available, and thus give the impression that the respective games can be played with this software, would be a definite plus. A lot of people will enjoy "getting in there" and making things from scratch, reading the how-to manuals and the like. Heh, not me. I just wanna game, and I'm eager to see things that will make that easier, that I don't have to make myself. :)

As far as I know of there is not yet anything like that. But it does sound like a very good idea. Perhaps someone with server-space to spare could help set something like this up?

3. I've been reading in the forums about using PDFs, and the existing methods seem incredibly tedious and unreliable. As I was reading, though, a thought occurred to me. If one can input images for maps and such, why couldn't we simply do the same for pages from a book? I often find myself exporting all the pages as JPGs, so that I can resize them and make a PDF smaller and more manageable, so couldn't we import those same images into FG as albums or collections (giving the appearance of being a book)? I very much like this idea, for both its simplicity and the possibilities it opens up. Sure, the text wouldn't be searchable, but that's no biggie. If I'm holding an actual book in my hand, it's not searchable either. <Chuckle> (Plus, this would allow us to retain the artwork and graphics from the books.)

What would be even nicer is if we could "load" various PDFs onto the tabletop. Boy, that sure would be nice.

A very workable idea. :) Thanks. :)

And yeah, I think I'm gonna shell out for this one, so positive answers to the above would just be icing on the cake. :)

Welcome aboard. :) I am sure you will find the journey worthwhile. :)

Ram Tyr

December 16th, 2006, 13:49

2. Is there a central repository (now or in the works) for legal downloads of game-related items. Not full rules sets, obviously, but just character sheet, background, token & icons, and that sort of thing.
Check out Four Ugly Monsters (https://www.fouruglymonsters.com/). They have a bunch of free downloads and some for sale. A great bunch of folks there. (I say that excluding myself, of course.)

Later.

richvalle

December 16th, 2006, 16:40