Goodbye

[dulux-oz]

Hello Everyone,

Over the last week or so there have been a series of escalating incidents between myself and one of the other Community Members. While I have attempted to dampen the situation (after writing a paragraph of a post which I inadvertently left open to misinterpretation, and which I now realise was a mistake to write), unfortunately the other person has chosen to continue to escalate things. To complicate matters a 3rd Party (known to me) jumped in unasked in an attempt to defend both others and I. Unfortunately, this only made things worse.

Should I, as one of the Forum Moderators, have behaved more professionally? Yes, without a shadow of a doubt. Should I have risen to the bait presented, even though I knew better? No, I should have walked away earlier than I did, and handed the situation over to one of my fellow Moderators.

So I unreservedly apologise to this Community for my part in the ensuing situation and for failing in my duties as a Forum Moderator.

I am sorry.

All of this, unfortunately, has led, after 8-odd years of loyal support and positive experiences, to a breakdown of trust (not to mention of friendship) between SmiteWorks and myself, to the point that I feel I can no longer be part of a Community where trust turns out to be so fleeting, where a person can be punished for something someone else does, and where loyalty has zero reward.

SmiteWorks, based on the facts as they choose to understand them, are perfectly within their right to take the action(s) against me that they have, even though in my opinion they are not being just, as I explained to them in good faith fully the circumstances surrounding my errors and the extent of my involvement, and that I was not the cause of the continuing escalation of the situation.

So, with great regret, and not a little sadness, effective immediately I am taking a substantial step back from my involvement with the FG Community. There are some of you that will be ecstatic over this, and some who will even gloat. Feel free to go ahead; it does not bother me. I know how well liked and how well respected I am on these Forums, and there will be vastly more people sorry to see me leave than there will be happy of the fact. I will be dropping back in from time to time to see how things are going, but do not expect me to contribute anything sustantial from here on - including answering PMs or other posts.

To all of you who have used and enjoyed my contributions to this Community (the DOEs, DORs, DOMs, Tutorial Vids, et.al.) thank you for your support over the years, but I am afraid this also means that I will no longer be in a position to support any of those contributions. All Licences and Copyrights remain in effect, and I will not be handing over support to someone else. I know that puts you all at a disadvantage moving forward, and I apologise for that, but I cannot, in good conscious, continue to support a company that I feel has treated me with so little trust and loyalty, and as unjustly as I feel I have been treated. I am sorry, but that is just the way it is. Perhaps down the track, if things improve, I will re-release all of my work, but until then, I do not authorise any of my work to be distributed via this or any other website or via any other method of distribution, electronic or otherwise.

So, to all my friends here on the Forums, its been a fun 8-odd years – I am going to miss you, miss creating things for you, and miss helping out the Community as a whole. I guess all our lives will be poorer from now on.

Goodbye

[Trenloe]

Sorry to see you go. :-(

[Callum]

You will be a real loss to the Fantasy Grounds community. Your contributions have been immense, as anyone who has spent any time here knows.

[Zacchaeus]

So long, Dulux, and sorry for all your troubles. You will be missed.

[YAKO SOMEDAKY]

Dulux-Oz respects your decision, but I say that it will surely be missed.
Of course this is something that comes from me, but I feel like being a friend of the community, a friend especially of those who answer me and help me in the midst of my crazy and weird ideas, so I feel safe to say:
Friend you will be sorely missed and with all my heart I hope to be surprised with an I AM ****ING BACK !!!

[mattekure]

Sorry to see you go, you will be greatly missed.

[MacDork]

Oh no :(

I'm sorry you've had to go through whatever it was, and the community is worse for your departure.

I'm cautiously optimistic that cooler heads will prevail and that we will all be able to celebrate your return at some point, but if not, fair winds and following seas, and thank you for everything you've done.

[DrakePD]

dulux-oz, Unfortunately saying goodbye is the most painful way of solving a problem. You will be missed!

~Drake

[LordEntrails]

I am sad to see you leave. I will always welcome you back.

[dberkompas]

I respond to posts such as this with humor. This is not one of those times.

Just know that you will be missed.

Please feel free to join us in Fantasy Grounds College.


Dave

[JohnD]

I hate it when over the top drama and hissy fits interject themselves into my hobby space. Often the loudest whiner wins unfortunately.

Hope whatever comes in the future is good for you. :)

Thank you for the extension you wrote for me a few years ago - I still have it and make use of it from time to time.

[viresanimi]

I don't know what to say, other than you'll be sorely missed!

Vires Animi

[notrealdan]

Though I don't know you personally, I'm very sorry to see you go. I've always considered you one of the more knowledgeable and helpful members of this community. Thank you for all the hard work you've done!

Your departure is a loss to the community, both by the lack of your presence and the removal of your extensions. You are of course well within your rights and I respect your decision. I sincerely hope that you and SmiteWorks come to some understanding and that you can return happily someday. Until then, I wish you the best!

[UltimateGM]

I will definitely miss you and the contributions that you have added to this community. I understand where you're coming from though I have been a bit absent of the escalation and know nothing about what happened. I can say that I have been down that road before and I hope to hear from you again. It will be a real loss!

Kirk

[Grommit57]

Wish you nothing but luck in everything you do. You have been an asset to the community and will be sorely missed.

[Bonkon]

Good Day Dulux :)
I have had nothing but positive interactions with you and all the moderators and frequent posters here over the few years I have been here. I have no idea what happened, but I am saddened by the loss of such an outstanding contributor, both answering questions and making improvements to FG.
I am with all here that have said I hope whatever happened is sorted out and you return happily to the community. Until then I wish you all the best!

[Oberoten]

I am very sad to see you go Dulux, from my side you presence has been a very positive one.
Good code and good humor will always be sorely missed.

I wish you good luck in your future endavours.

- Obe

[Griogre]

I'm sorry to hear you are leaving, moderating is a thankless task. I know its easy to get caught up in words back and forth and forget there are people with feelings behind those words and it is so true - "To err is human, to forgive divine..."

[rob2e]

Dulux,

It was only a few days ago that I lost a friend of almost FORTY years over one conversation. I have known him since 1981 and during our conversation, he went too far (saying things so vile that you can't take back). Oddly, it was HE that ended the friendship, not I. So I understand the situation of escalating tempers, and miscommunications, and misstatements, and so on... I GET IT!

It is unfortunate, but you have to do what makes your life work. Very understandable.

Sorry for your troubles. And as others have OBVIOUSLY stated... You. Will. Be. Missed!

[madman]

Damn! Good Luck Dulux..

[esmdev]

Good fortune to you. You have a lot of friends and fans here that will likely miss your presence. I hope you will reconsider after time.

[MarianDz]

Dear "dulux-oz", when I start to be part of FG community (it was 2013) you were here. Since then think I was read all your 4000 posts and 14 great Blogs which you posted here on forum. Simply because I was here day by day learning how this great VTT enviroment works, what possible is and what isn't. Where are my modules and how to activate them, what are extensions, how works game mechanics, etc... . Your posts was always possitive and helpfull. With your "Just A Little Personal Notice" you brings into our small virtual world and my heart humanic dimensions of real world. This demonstrate and definitely differentiate level of members quality of this community.
Our posts are often ambiguous, so no boring with it.

Last year (2019) I feel here on FG forums arise of strange unspecified pressure from members.
Especially new which don't know how long takes get software FGC into todays version.
Some of them want to have everything NOW 'n' READY! They expect same quality as older version has.
But it isn't possible in this phase in which we actually are.
Under what pressure must work developes? I really couldn't imagine. But I'm their fan.
What I know they surely need is time, constructive ideas, patient members ... and skilled experienced veterans without which this
community could changed into "cold 'n' icy place without human feelings".
Where new players uselessly looking for their answers.


But, .... maybe we don't need you to be here as unmistakable person, because we aren't too.

[seycyrus]

Yeah this is a great loss.

All because of a psychotic loon that most likely showed up here to cause trouble from the get-go. In case there's any confusion, I'm definitely NOT talking about Delux.

Smiteworks and a lot of the community here spends WAY too much time and effort bending over backwards to accommodate the dregs of society. The individual in question has/had no grasp of ANY reality (not even the reality he conjured up in his head!), and should have been identified from the start.

[Halfront]

Sad news indeed:( Bonne Chance.

[JohnQPublic]

I hope you reconsider.

[Howell Family]

I have had little to no interaction with you Delux, but I've read a number of your posts as well a number of the extensions you have provided us. I am truly sorry to hear about this and I hope that in time you return. You are a true asset to the community. Thank you.

[Dax Doomslayer]

Awww man this sucks. I don't know what happened but I'm really sorry to hear this. Dulux, it was your videos for FGC that got me started learning how to run/play FG and your sound extension is my all time favorite extension. I'm really sorry to hear this and wish you all the best. I hope at some point bridges will be mended as you are a tremendous boon to this community...It is a bummer of a day for sure.

[RunningHill]

Oh ****, *%¤##%¤#¤, I'm sorry about that escalated so much, didn't know it happend more stuff behind the curtains.

[StoryWeaver]

I have no idea what happened, but this is terrible news.

Dulux as far as I know in my own interactions with you and what I've read, you have been nothing but supportive and helpful and a motivator to invest into the community.

Your contributions to FG in the form of extensions speak for themselves in their popularity. I know how much time, effort and passion have to go into each one to keep them going and make them a reality.

I hope whatever took place will get mended over time and we'll see your return to the community. If you do, no need to take on a moderator mantle, perhaps you could sit back more and focus on what gives you enjoyment first and foremost instead.

Whatever the outcome, I wish you all the best, and the lack of your presence on these forums and in the community will be felt.

[Atua]

This is sad news indeed. I have not had too much interaction with you Dulux-Oz, but you have been courteous when I have worked with you and your extensions have been very useful. I have seen you countless times engaging with and helping out the community, so it is unfortunate that that avenue has been lost. With you recent health scare, I hope you are well on your way to being healthier and I hope you can take a break and find what you need at this set of crossroads of life.

[noidish]

No. This sucks. You rock.

[Neovirtus]

An unfortunate situation on all sides. Lose-lose-lose, sadly. Your contributions to the community will be missed; I hope you will reconsider when the wound isn't quite so fresh and continue to be an active member of the forums, even if not in the official capacity you enjoyed before.

[darrenan]

Take care of yourself and do what's right for you.

[Kelrugem]

yes, as others said, sad to read that; take care :)

[Bidmaron]

Dulux, God bless and I hope you may be able to reconsider at some point.

[Dakadin]

Dulux, sorry to see you go. You've provided a lot of support of the community over the years. I wish you the best in the future and hope that we see you again around here.

[k410]

Hoping that after a little while things can be smoothed over.

Wishing you the best in any case.

[knucklehead]

Your passion for contributing has been evident in everything you do.

On the upside, rest assured that communities bounce back, and somebody will pick up the torch and run with it.

So don't you go thinking you've let this community down, bud. In times of crisis, people always step up.

You just rest those great big shoulders of yours and enjoy your retirement. Probably best for your health (and maybe even allow you to just develop for your own enjoyment!)

[daggerfortysix]

It is very unfortunate to loose such a valuable member of our community. Your expertise will be missed.

[GeorgeOrr]

Although I've had zero direct interaction with you, your posts have always been helpful and very very informative. A lot of people's experience with FG has been improved by your presence, and will now be lessened by this loss.

Just based on what I've seen on these forums it seems like sometimes the Trolls win. I hate that.

[Three of Swords]

Like several others, I don't know what happened. And I've never had any direct interaction w/ you, Dulux. But your loss to the community will hurt, and I'm sorry to see you leave.

[Moon Wizard]

In general, we at SmiteWorks try to take a light approach to moderating the forums. We like to give everyone a chance to express their views, and become a member of the community. In those situations where we need to step in, we issue warnings and close threads in order to de-escalate and provide feedback on acceptable forum etiquette. In a few very rare cases, we have banned users. However, in general, we try to use these tools sparingly, and give everyone feedback and chances to become part of our community. As part of this company approach to forum management, we hold our moderators to the same standards.

In this specific case, we feel like we need to make a statement of facts as we know them, since there seems to be some misperception of what occurred recently that caused Dulux-Oz to announce his departure.

Here is what happened from our perspective:

A new user had in a few short weeks shown his combative nature on the forums.
Per our approach to handling the forums, we closed threads that became combative, and warned the new user to tone down their rhetoric. As mentioned above, we try to give everyone a fair chance to partake in the community.
In one of this user's last threads, they continued their combative rhetoric, but was engaged by Dulux-Oz in a defensive manner and one of Dulux's responses made what could be perceived as a veiled threat.
Shortly after the thread was closed by us, the new user announced their departure citing this threat.
In the new user's departure announcement, a third account engaged this user in a very vitriolic exchange with name-calling, profanity and more.
It was noted by the combative new user that this third account appeared to be a "puppet" account for Dulux-Oz, and in fact shared the same IP address as Dulux-Oz. The third account had been inactive for several years prior to this exchange.
The threads were closed, a final warning was sent to the new user, the third account was banned, and moderator status for Dulux-Oz removed. These actions were taken as immediate steps that night they occurred to de-escalate the situation.
While Dulux-Oz later explained that the third account was owned by a relative trying to defend him and piped through a VPN on his network; the issue is that public relations damage from the incident is a real issue (that could become bigger if not dealt with quickly). This is why we took the steps we did.
We provided this information to Dulux-Oz, and explained why we took the actions.


Just to be clear, we did not ask Dulux-Oz to leave nor take any action other than to remove moderator status the night that the issue occurred. Dulux-Oz is welcome to stay or return whenever he wishes; and we would be more than happy to welcome him back to the community.

In regards to his removal of his content, I will be starting a separate thread for discussion.

Regards,
JPG

[k410]

Thank you, Moon Wizard.

I'm sure we can appreciate FG's side of things and also appreciate and respect that one stalwart relative or friend who stands up for us and tries to help, but inadvertently makes things worse with the best of intentions.

Meanwhile, as we wait for the asteroid to hit or a global pandemic (or whatever) to kill us all, at least things are not as bad as this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEh1fT1IH14

[JohnD]

As is frequently the case, there is always "stuff" happening in the background that the regular user, commenting after the fact, knows nothing about. These types of situations are always going to be tricky to resolve to everyone's (anyone's) satisfaction.

I go back to my earlier "lose-lose-lose" outcome statement.

Thanks for providing a little clarity.

[k410]

I still think a positive outcome is possible -- not bludgeoned, not coerced into being, but allowed to sprout in its own time.

What are we but complicated stories riding meat and bones, and perhaps a little more?

An important skill is not to let our stories ride us.

The circle is unsalted, the candles are unlit, and the owls are silent.

In such a moment we should allow better things to happen.

[Ampersandrew]

Well, since you've joined the conversation John.

I've edited this several times, trying not to be a ****.

From your timeline, you revoked moderator status before you talked to him. That—in my opinion—was heavy handed and shows a complete lack of trust on your part. It's an implied slur on his character. Based on the say-so of an acknowledged troll that you banned no less.

If you'd revoked my moderator status without any discussion with me, I'd have had a similar reaction.

It seems to me its the complete opposite of a light touch.

[Dr0W]

Well, since you've joined the conversation John.

I've edited this several times, trying not to be a ****.

From your timeline, you revoked moderator status before you talked to him. That—in my opinion—was heavy handed and shows a complete lack of trust on your part. It's an implied slur on his character. Based on the say-so of an acknowledged troll that you banned no less.

If you'd revoked my moderator status without any discussion with me, I'd have had a similar reaction.

It seems to me its the complete opposite of a light touch.

Honestly, I've been on the admin part for a long part of my life and stuff like that always happen. Whenever bad actions come from one of the moderators the usual first and foremost action is to remove that one privileges, unless you are both online and can talk about that right away. Since that person is not acting accordingly and it HAS power, it must be removed ASAP. The talk can come later, and I believe he as notified the moment he got his privileges removed. As an Admin you simply can't let a moderator who is acting against the rules to keep power and possibly create a bigger problem.

Moon Wizard acted professionally.

[Ampersandrew]

Whenever bad actions come from one of the moderators


Since that person is not acting accordingly and it HAS power, it must be removed ASAP.


As an Admin you simply can't let a moderator who is acting against the rules to keep power and possibly create a bigger problem.

I'm going to have to politely disagree.

You're also assuming that the moderator is acting against the rules.

An account that's been quiet and suddenly posts doesn't need moderator privileges. Unless something else happened that we haven't been told about, I can't see how revoking moderator privileges helps at all. Even if it happened that's not an abuse of moderator power.


public relations damage from the incident is a real issue.

Yes, yes it is. Although possibly not in the way you think. It's certainly affected my opinion of the company. I was impressed with the company's relations with the public. Now less so.

I can't see any way forward to a good outcome from this "incident" as JohnD said "lose-lose-lose".

Look at the end of the day it's up to the company to interact with the community in a way that they see fit. Moderator is as far as I know an unpaid volunteer position, but they will be seen as representing the company. Still, I don't find the guilty 'til proved innocent assumption palatable, but obviously others disagree.

I've probably said more than enough about this. I'm not directly involved.

[dulux-oz]

Just for the record: I didn't step back because I lost moderator status, I stepped back because of things that happened surrounding the lose of moderator status. I said in my original post that SW were perfectly within their rights in what they decided to do, based on what they understood at the time (although I don't think they were particularly just).

And also for the record: I wasn't abusing my moderator status - I wasn't even aware of what was going on (after "the warning") - I wasn't even on-line during the worst of the trouble. I lost my moderator status because I was part of the initial build up to "the warning" and to which I apologised for in my first post - and I'm OK with that. Not necessarily happy with it, but I've accepted the fact and the reasons for it.

And, finally, also for the record: Thank you, everyone, for all the nice things people said in this thread. I've read them all over the last couple of hours, after having been informed by a friend that they were there. I haven't been on-site since I wrote the initial GoodBye post, and only came on now because my friend said I should.

[Dr0W]

I'm going to have to politely disagree.

You're also assuming that the moderator is acting against the rules.

An account that's been quiet and suddenly posts doesn't need moderator privileges. Unless something else happened that we haven't been told about, I can't see how revoking moderator privileges helps at all. Even if it happened that's not an abuse of moderator power.

I'm not saying he did. I'm saying that MW had pretty strong reasons to believe he didn't act accordingly. First thing to be done is to remove the status, then have a good talk, and then maybe get the status back. If an admin has strong evidence that a moderator didn't act correctly, they should remove the privilege to prevent possible future damage. This is just standard procedure.

[arcanjl]

This is very sad news indeed. I half expected you saying you were removing your extensions because FG hired you directly.
It seems the more online we get the more cruel people get. I am sorry that ONE person caused this, I hope that one day you will join the community again.
All you have done has been so appreciated - and raised my game playing to a new hight. I wish I could give you a million dollars to reconsider, but alas, I can spend other people's money cause I don't have any LOL. (Though I loved purchasing your sounds packs every month)

Thank you, and I wish we could do something to have you reconsider.

[asasquatch]

Well shoot Dulux-oz. I didn't know you, but I was really looking forward to using your highly recommended extensions in my first campaign using FG. Best of luck man. From what I saw online, you do good work!

[JimSocks]

Well, that’s a kick in the ole pants. I have no clue of the drama beyond what I’ve read here in this thread.

I only came to this thread because someone mentioned your exit in a thread about my mod which I wrote specifically to play nice with one of yours, Dulox.

I’m here now writing a response for this reason: you really inspired me. Everyone praises your sound extension, and it’s great and all, but your location extension has always been my favorite!

Your tutorial videos showed me FG from the bottom up, helped me prep for my first-ever foray into being a GM, and made me wish to be a player in a campaign run by you BIGTIME (seriously, can I submit a resume or something? PM me I am 0% joking- I will totally make a character’s resume for the chance)

Your posts here in the community carried weight, because you were always on point. You helped countless folks here run great games.

But it’s not just here- I saw you out in other company’s forums, repping FG and spreading the news (Syrinscape peeps- amiright!?)

Dude, this sucks. Step away, take a breather, and then come back to help us all?

At the very least, give me a sweet locations extension again ;)

[Phithis]

I'm going to have to politely disagree.

You're also assuming that the moderator is acting against the rules.

An account that's been quiet and suddenly posts doesn't need moderator privileges. Unless something else happened that we haven't been told about, I can't see how revoking moderator privileges helps at all. Even if it happened that's not an abuse of moderator power.



Yes, yes it is. Although possibly not in the way you think. It's certainly affected my opinion of the company. I was impressed with the company's relations with the public. Now less so.

I can't see any way forward to a good outcome from this "incident" as JohnD said "lose-lose-lose".

Look at the end of the day it's up to the company to interact with the community in a way that they see fit. Moderator is as far as I know an unpaid volunteer position, but they will be seen as representing the company. Still, I don't find the guilty 'til proved innocent assumption palatable, but obviously others disagree.

I've probably said more than enough about this. I'm not directly involved.

Hmmm... Well, it can't be as bad as the debacle over at Roll20, right??

[Willot]

Hmmm... Well, it can't be as bad as the debacle over at Roll20, right??

WHats that? Did they decide to change the name to Roll30?

[swest]

So that's just great... I'm away for 2-1/2 years, and right before my gaming group decides it's time to return to our Pathfinder game (which I am running in Fantasy Grounds), two of the most valuable people in this community (Dulux-Oz and Ken L) have said 'sayonara'... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuKygW4PErU

Well... Sayonara, I guess. That's a drag. Thanks (!) for all the good stuff (code and advice).

- s.west

[MTS]

I didn't know you in person. But MAN I respected your work. How amazing it was to put together databases of cosmologies! And your work with the sound extension was the bee's knee's. I hate what happened to you...

I love your work. It's just beautiful. Thank you X10^billionth.

[Hitchhiker]

I just saw this, and it made my heart sad. I can honestly say that the whole reason that I bought FG was due to Delux-Oz's extensions. Yes,
the issue is that public relations damage from the incident is a real issue , the relations that have been damaged is the relationship of FG with its loyal constituents and not with the public at large. There has after reading both sides, as posted in this thread, the one thing that has become obvious is that FG is more concerned with CYA than actually taking a stand to protect those who have helped to build and support their product. It is through the efforts of people like Delux-Oz that your product really shines. Now we see the shine has been tarnished and twice as much work will need to be done to hopefully bring back the shine.

[Neovirtus]

the one thing that has become obvious is that FG is more concerned with CYA than actually taking a stand to protect those who have helped to build and support their product.

I must say I very much disagree with this assessment of the situation. SW didn't ban Dulux-oz, he chose to leave. From what I gather, they removed his moderator status after he interacted with a community member in a way they deemed inappropriate. I think they are right to carefully control who speaks for them in any official capacity. IMHO that is the correct amount of "CYA".

[Vigilance]

Well that is bad. You are going to be missed. I have used your DOE for all my adventures.

[SirMotte]

Oh well..just when I was really getting into Fantasy Grounds and the extension functionality, some of the most important plugins vanish. What a shame and what a great loss. I sincerely hope that you will return one day. You will be welcomed with open arms and bright smiles. I wish you all the best, and stay healthy.