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MooCow
December 19th, 2019, 23:02
I've tried finding a Kult Ruleset in these forums, but so far all I've seen is a /kult roll:
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?34860-MoreCore-Ruleset/page98

I don't know how far I'll go into making a ruleset, but at least I can do the simple task of a character sheet or four, right?

...unless it's already been made. Damned seems to be the one most involved with Kult ruleset related stuff, so this unspoken question is mostly directed at him.

I figure I'd base them on the CoreRPG ruleset, since that seems to be the most bare bones that you can get without having to program basic functions.

That /kult roll is probably on MoreCore, though, so I'll try to somehow import it over, unless there's really alluring functionality as the work progresses (if I don't just do a table flip - no guarantees - I am a very emotionally unstable person).


Update:
Here is the first beta release - version 0.2b. Please report any issues or wishes.

esmdev
December 19th, 2019, 23:58
It would be nice to see a Kult ruleset. Which version do you think you would use?

MooCow
December 20th, 2019, 00:20
It would be nice to see a Kult ruleset. Which version do you think you would use?

I only have Divinity Lost (which is fourth edition, released last year). I sort of have the second edition as well, but the book keeps disappearing and reappearing. Right now it's gone, so I can't reference it. Divinity Lost is stable, though.

I'm hoping that this could be a group effort, because right now I'm just editing random XML lists, hoping that the pieces will fit together later on. Help!

Got all the four character sheet labels done so far (in XML only), and the copyright credits. (There are three more, and there is descriptive text as well.) Is it hard to make this sheet in basic CoreRPG, compared to MoreCore? ...because there's a lot of tick boxes on these character sheets ( https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ZnyrHpdE1GLwWlJ3d9pHHr648APQOqyP ) and I wonder if CoreRPG even has that functionality. Does MoreCore have that?

Edit:
I'd like to note that the map image that the attributes are all mapped to, isn't really copyrighted. It's called The Sephirot, or The Tree of Life (or Death), so we can probably find similar images online to put on the sheet.

MooCow
December 20th, 2019, 02:07
I'm also curious where the line is between a ruleset and copyrighted material. The stats of a character sheet seems to be fine, but are tables okay? ...and what if the tables are part of the stats, like it is here? What about monster or item stats? I'm prepared to write as much as it takes, but only what's legal to copy.

I also think that a proper licence would be cool, if this RPG gathers enough interest.

Progress report: I'm done with inserting all the text on the sheets, into labelled XML strings.

Trenloe
December 20th, 2019, 02:12
I'm also curious where the line is between a ruleset and copyrighted material. The stats of a character sheet seems to be fine, but are tables okay? ...and what if the tables are part of the stats, like it is here? What about monster or item stats? I'm prepared to write as much as it takes, but only what's legal to copy.
Numbers and non-Intellectual Property names are fine. Descriptive text or prose is not. So, you're usually limited to creature/NPC names that aren't IP (don't use names/locations specific to the material) and statistics (numbers) and generic weapons/equipment names.

Moon Wizard
December 20th, 2019, 02:36
In general, we don’t include any data (including tables) without permission.

JPG

MooCow
December 20th, 2019, 02:51
Numbers and non-Intellectual Property names are fine. Descriptive text or prose is not. So, you're usually limited to creature/NPC names that aren't IP (don't use names/locations specific to the material) and statistics (numbers) and generic weapons/equipment names.
Aha. That would rule out the attribute descriptions, and the Advancement tables for the Sleeper/Aware/Enlightened.


In general, we don’t include any data (including tables) without permission.
JPG
That would rule out the hitpoint penalties and mental stability penalties.
However that can easily be houseruled to give a general penalty to all attributes.

...or you could ask for permission. I was recently told that that works. ;) After all, it could be just the character sheet, impossible to use without also owning the rules.

esmdev
December 20th, 2019, 04:42
The mechanical part of the game can be reproduced including words to represent the mechanics. The mental balance mechanics would be hard because so much of the information that represents your state is explained using game setting information so it would fall in the line of probably not. Of course anything you do for private use you can put in as much information as you like.

If you get a solid, working ruleset going you might even be able to convince Smiteworks to talk to Modiphius about licensing it then you could publish as much setting stuff as you can convert.

MooCow
December 20th, 2019, 05:46
The mechanical part of the game can be reproduced including words to represent the mechanics. The mental balance mechanics would be hard because so much of the information that represents your state is explained using game setting information so it would fall in the line of probably not.

Mental Balance is an old and obsolete term. You might be refering to the Stability table, ranging from Composed to Broken. The terms the table uses are common psychological terms, attribute descriptions that can be rewritten into their corresponding attributes, and the term "Disadvantage rolls", which is as most term-y as it gets.


Of course anything you do for private use you can put in as much information as you like.
I'm doing this because I want to inflict Kult upon YOU guys, and I don't want to sit here and just play with myself anyway. These sheets I'm making, are meant for other players - hopefully thousands of players and GMs. I want Kult to be a thing. An official, legit thing. That's why I'm doing this.


If you get a solid, working ruleset going you might even be able to convince Smiteworks to talk to Modiphius about licensing it then you could publish as much setting stuff as you can convert.
Well, it's a bit catch 22: If I ultimately can't get a full sheet going, because of licencing issues, then I won't have much of a ruleset.
...but those character sheets that I linked to, they're provided by Helmgast's own site for free, which gives me hope. There's even lots of free Kult adventures that you can download too. ...so where's the copyright there? ...but maybe they're not supposed to be used for commercial use - maybe that's the catch.

Anyway:

Helmgast and Cabinet are offering sub-licensing opportunities of KULT to specific regions, countries, and/or languages. We are happy to answer any question at [email protected] We have solicited offers for Spanish, French, Portugese, German and Italian and are thus not taking on any offers for these languages.
You could at least ask them how much they'd charge. (I can't mail them and ask, because I can't speak for Fantasy Grounds.)

esmdev
December 20th, 2019, 06:03
Ah, didn't know about the changes, haven't really read the new system. Haven't used Kult since the last century. ;)

I should pick up the new rules for comparison.

MooCow
December 20th, 2019, 06:41
Ah, didn't know about the changes, haven't really read the new system. Haven't used Kult since the last century. ;)
I should pick up the new rules for comparison.

I've provided download links for the character sheets above, so that you can see for yourself.

I'm also attaching a screenshot of how far I've gotten here.

I've tried to stay true to the format, but making a character sheet in CoreRPG is fairly complicated. I have barely any idea what I'm doing. I'm going to try to export my mess to a "layered ruleset" tomorrow, and hope that somebody who knows this XML stuff picks it up. (Hi there, Damned.)

Trenloe
December 20th, 2019, 11:27
I'd strongly recommend that if you go the CoreRPG route (rather than using MoreCore or similar) that you layer your ruleset on top of CoreRPG - layering is similar to an extension, but creates a ruleset in its own right (which allows restriction of extensions and modules to run just for that ruleset). This will allow your ruleset to take advantage of any future upgrades/bug fixes in CoreRPG. This is what standard FG rulesets do and was one of the main design goals of CoreRPG.

damned
December 20th, 2019, 13:48
I dont know the game, have never played the game, its actually a game i also dont own...
Im working from this char sheet
http://www.arustmonsteratemysword.com/downloads/Kult%201E%20Char%20Sheet%202a.pdf
and I dont know how Abilities and Skills work but as a guess I went with
Abilities
being 3d6 with bonuses for higher numbers and penalties for lower numbers
Roll - 2d10+(p2) where (p2) is the bonus/penalty
Skills
being a simple value from -5 to +5 but also getting the bonus/penalty from the parent ability
Roll - 2d10+(a)+(p1) where (a) is the bonus from the Ability and (p1) is the bonus/penalty for the skill

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30933

Of course these rolls could be completely wrong but this is an example of how you might do this in MoreCore

30933

MooCow
December 20th, 2019, 22:17
I dont know the game, have never played the game, its actually a game i also dont own...
Im working from this char sheet
http://www.arustmonsteratemysword.com/downloads/Kult%201E%20Char%20Sheet%202a.pdf
and I dont know how Abilities and Skills work but as a guess I went with
Abilities
being 3d6 with bonuses for higher numbers and penalties for lower numbers
Roll - 2d10+(p2) where (p2) is the bonus/penalty
Skills
being a simple value from -5 to +5 but also getting the bonus/penalty from the parent ability
Roll - 2d10+(a)+(p1) where (a) is the bonus from the Ability and (p1) is the bonus/penalty for the skill
Of course these rolls could be completely wrong but this is an example of how you might do this in MoreCore

Yeah, you've blended 4th edition rolls (just as the user requested of you) with a 1st edition sheet. Kult has changed dramatically, IMO for the better, by every release. There's just ten skills in 4th edition, for example - the ones I listed on my sheet under Attributes.
Here - I'll link the official 4th edition ones again:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ZnyrHpdE1GLwWlJ3d9pHHr648APQOqyP
I think I'll do fine on my own for now. I just need to take a short break.

MooCow
December 21st, 2019, 03:57
Getting the hang of positioning frames. As far as positioning and sizes go, page one is mostly done.

I'm going to MAYBE need help with the following:
- How to position the titles of each frame in the upper left corner of them, instead of the upper middle.
- How to make those titles white text on the background of a black box.
- How to vertically anchor something, since Archetype and Occupation shouldn't be next to eachother like that. ...but that probably won't matter much.
- Possibly how to get separate storage for each frame, since right now - as you can see - they're mostly linked to the Attribute frame.

Hopefully there's no jargon specific to Kult on this page.

esmdev
December 24th, 2019, 02:52
I'm really looking forward to the completed character sheet. Will be awesome. :)

MooCow
December 24th, 2019, 06:25
I'm really looking forward to the completed character sheet. Will be awesome. :)
Thank you. There's a lot to do, but so far I'm working on it daily. Currently it actually does look a bit messier than the screenshot - gotta realign things. :)
If I give up on this project, I'll release what I have to you guys to continue, but so far I can manage.
I'm thinking that if I can learn to program lua, then we don't need the tables for wounds and stability. There will just be a number that you enter into a box, and then the maluses will be calculated automatically.
Merry christmas. :)

MooCow
December 25th, 2019, 16:08
Fixed the top half now. ...almost. When I transfered the portrait from the frame onto the front page, it mysteriously disappeared. Can't I put a portrait there?

Next up is fixing the titles of the fields, and the heights of the lines you write on.

I haven't even begun on the back page, but it should be easier than this page.

I also noticed something while filling in this sheet: You can have lots of dark secrets, but Abuse Survivor is an OCCUPATION. That's like your JOB. :P Kirsty seemed to manage well enough to not let it completely define her.

esmdev
January 1st, 2020, 16:03
If you believe in time as an actual thing, then happy new year, otherwise happy any other day!

It looks like I'm going to be running a live game of Kult in early February. If you are looking for someone to test the sheet around then we often use FG as an intermediary in our live sessions.

MooCow
January 1st, 2020, 17:52
If you believe in time as an actual thing, then happy new year, otherwise happy any other day!

It looks like I'm going to be running a live game of Kult in early February. If you are looking for someone to test the sheet around then we often use FG as an intermediary in our live sessions.

I would love to be finished by then, but I can make no promises, when it seems that even labels take scripting to do properly. I guess I can always make sure to make a basic, preliminary layout, and focus less on the details. I've got a month, which should be good to make something rudimentary, but you make sure that you also have a backup plan. I've let down people before, as well as myself.
As for the rules themselves, as mentioned before, there is already a /kult roll implemented in MoreCore (I think it was). The thing is that I have done the sheet for Core RPG instead, so HOPEFULLY you can layer it on top of MoreCore as well. I haven't even gotten the ruleset layered yet, but I have marked 99% of my changes with tags to be able to export it easily.

Happy new year.

esmdev
January 1st, 2020, 18:43
Right now all the characters are on paper so your sheet would be a happy advance but we're already ready. If it's useable would love to give it a spin.

I'm aware of the complexity and work that goes into FG sheets and rulesets which is why I haven't been able to motivate my lazy *** to make one. Glad you are less lazy than me cause it would be great to have an solid sheet and whatever else you're in the mood to add. .

MooCow
January 4th, 2020, 22:37
Right now all the characters are on paper so your sheet would be a happy advance but we're already ready. If it's useable would love to give it a spin.
I'm aware of the complexity and work that goes into FG sheets and rulesets which is why I haven't been able to motivate my lazy *** to make one. Glad you are less lazy than me cause it would be great to have an solid sheet and whatever else you're in the mood to add. .

Well, funny thing happened: I bought a computer game for $5 on the Steam sale. It was a short little indie contest entry. It took me 7 hours to beat. Perfect. ...and so I thought "Hey, the sequel costs $5 too! I can play another 7 hours.".
32 play hours later I'm almost nearing something resembling an end of a massive Final Fantasy 7 clone (and I hated FF7 for its length).
...but hopefully I'll get back to work soon.

MooCow
January 6th, 2020, 01:14
Work has resumed. Only the attributes remain to be done on the first page.
I figured that since FG people seem to like frames a lot, that I'd use some pieces of flesh as placeholders for the attributes. If the color is too distracting, I can make it black and white. It's an attempt to not print any original artwork. My Tree of Life will instead have little Hellraiser hooks stringing the pieces of attribute-flesh together later on. (I've drawn them, but placing them requires a lot of precision work.)

damned
January 6th, 2020, 01:22
its coming along nicely.
have you started on making the rolls work yet?

MooCow
January 6th, 2020, 01:53
its coming along nicely.
have you started on making the rolls work yet?

I figure that the rolls will be implemented last. First of all players are going to need to put their stats and information somewhere, and they can already roll 2D10 if they just keep track of the results.
Also, I was hoping that you'd somehow be able to export your Kult dice system to Core RPG, or tell me how to do it, since I wouldn't even know where to begin for that. Do you have a specific extension for that, or is it baked into the entire MoreCore ruleset somewhere?

damned
January 6th, 2020, 02:18
I figure that the rolls will be implemented last. First of all players are going to need to put their stats and information somewhere, and they can already roll 2D10 if they just keep track of the results.
Also, I was hoping that you'd somehow be able to export your Kult dice system to Core RPG, or tell me how to do it, since I wouldn't even know where to begin for that. Do you have a specific extension for that, or is it baked into the entire MoreCore ruleset somewhere?

unfortunately MoreCore rolls are integrated into several different files.
they are done that way to make it easier to add new rolls into MoreCore but it doesnt make them very friendly for dropping straight into another ruleset.
however - you are welcome to borrow any code from the roll and use it when you get there
some of the code is cut and pasteable but you need to call the roll differently but there are plenty of examples of those in all the core rulesets.

MooCow
January 6th, 2020, 12:14
unfortunately MoreCore rolls are integrated into several different files.
they are done that way to make it easier to add new rolls into MoreCore but it doesnt make them very friendly for dropping straight into another ruleset.
however - you are welcome to borrow any code from the roll and use it when you get there
some of the code is cut and pasteable but you need to call the roll differently but there are plenty of examples of those in all the core rulesets.

I figured that I'd ask you at least which files in advance, so that I could just refer back to your post when the time comes.
See, you seem to underestimate the knowledge that you have: Sifting through the entire MoreCore ruleset for your little alterations, will no doubt be an extremely gruelling task to me, since I don't expect your code to be marked "<!-- damned's Kult roll code here -->".
...but I'm asking you now, so that there's no rush. I won't get around to rolling rules until at least after 1-2 weeks.
(I actually already made a crude Kult roll using a simple non-scripted table, but with that, you'd have to add bonus/malus manually.)

MooCow
January 6th, 2020, 20:46
Right now all the characters are on paper so your sheet would be a happy advance but we're already ready. If it's useable would love to give it a spin.
I'm aware of the complexity and work that goes into FG sheets and rulesets which is why I haven't been able to motivate my lazy *** to make one. Glad you are less lazy than me cause it would be great to have an solid sheet and whatever else you're in the mood to add. .

Okay, esmdev: This is the backside of the sheet in its current state. Wounds and Stability is the only things left, but those will be very complicated matters. In its current state you can write in these fields, but wounds won't have much space to write in.
...so the question now becomes: Can you manage with this sheet for now (as a first beta draft)? ...or do you need the check boxes and the bonus/malus calculations as well? If you can manage with just this, then I can "finish" the sheet in just a few days, but if you need more, then it can take maybe two weeks, and the risk of me giving up from exhaustion/boredom half-way.

The sheet doesn't currently have any automated 2d10 rolls, but that can be managed with a simple success/failure table and adding modifications manually.

esmdev
January 7th, 2020, 00:59
Okay, esmdev: This is the backside of the sheet in its current state. Wounds and Stability is the only things left, but those will be very complicated matters. In its current state you can write in these fields, but wounds won't have much space to write in.
...so the question now becomes: Can you manage with this sheet for now (as a first beta draft)? ...or do you need the check boxes and the bonus/malus calculations as well? If you can manage with just this, then I can "finish" the sheet in just a few days, but if you need more, then it can take maybe two weeks, and the risk of me giving up from exhaustion/boredom half-way.

The sheet doesn't currently have any automated 2d10 rolls, but that can be managed with a simple success/failure table and adding modifications manually.

Really anything is better than nothing. :) Won't need it for another month but will use, thanks!

MooCow
January 8th, 2020, 22:58
Okay, with this latest version, I say I'm done with the beta. Wounds/Stability are still incomplete, but all the other changes that I've wanted, has been made. What's left is the exporting to a separate layer, which will take a few days.

Some instructions:
The lines will only appear when you click to enter things in a field. They will remain until you exit that field. You may not know this, but exiting is done by pressing Esc.
There is also a resize button, that will expand all the edge fields.
I don't know how to get rid of the scrollbar for Appearance. The frame is just too narrow.
I don't think that I can include a success/failure table with the sheet, but you can easily make such a basic table yourself.
Modifications to these rolls are made by simply dragging the relevant attribute over to the modification box. Hopefully you know how to additionally modify that value with any wounds/stability maluses.
I've not included attribute undertitles, like "Keep it Together", since they could be considered to be too specific to be free use, so you should make a list of which rolls relate to which attributes.

I'm planning to contact copyright holder Helmgast later, in order to try to get some permissions either granted or clarified. With any luck, I'll be able to use the original sheets as a background, with the original art and logotype. We'll see.

MooCow
January 11th, 2020, 22:49
Okay, here you go. Link to the .pak has been posted in the first post of this thread. Enjoy! =)

I noticed just now, that I completely forgot to make the NPC sheets. Hopefully that won't be a problem for now. (I haven't even seen a full NPC sheet yet, so I don't even know what they look like besides a sort of damage move list.)

Since this is a beta, if you are missing anything, if there are any errors, or if you have any wishes (even if it involves a single pixel or shade of color) I'd like to know. Please test it as soon as possible, in case there are any critical bugs that needs to be fixed before you can play.

A global modification table for wounds, should be easy to make. Just note down what degree of wounds/stability a character has, consult it in the list, and drag it to the bottom-left modification box, along with the attribute modification. That should do it.

For a less medieval-looking skin, I recommend the default Simple themes. I'm working on my own discrete theme, but it's not finished yet.

MooCow
January 12th, 2020, 01:18
I have to say that the Kult system really lends itself to making tables: You can easily make a table for every attribute roll, and then in "Notes" detail what a Complete Success, Success with Complications and Failure entails. For likely copyright reasons I cannot include these tables in my ruleset, but you're likely free to create such tables for personal use on your end. It would save you a lot of time from having to consult the rulebook.

mpp7mato
April 4th, 2020, 21:51
Hi MooCow, thanks working on this, I'm hoping to run a session in the coming weeks. Where can I download the .pak?

superteddy57
April 4th, 2020, 21:54
It appears the developer has pulled their projects. It won't be available for download.

mpp7mato
April 4th, 2020, 22:02
Thanks for the quick and informative response. Much appreciated.

operative42
July 25th, 2020, 23:37
Damn... I was looking forward to this. Does anyone know why? Is there an official licensed release coming like with the World of Darkness projects?