Arrrgghh!!! I give up!

[goodmanje]

I can't create a decent adventure for ****! I think I'm going to resign myself to maybe playing in one game a week and that be as far as I go with this hobby. So frustrated....

[ddavison]

Hey goodmanje,

I'm sorry to hear that. Perhaps if you share some of the parts that trouble you, other GMs might have some suggestions on some other things you might consider trying. There is an art and skill to it, for sure, but there are also a lot of tricks that I find myself using over the decades. I'm sure other GMs will have some great tips too.

[LordEntrails]

Have you checked out any of the links in my advice post? https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?36014-GM-Advice

Then as Doug says, let us know what trouble you are having and we will see how we can help.

[goodmanje]

Yea, I just have no imagination. Been trying to come up with things for 2 years now. I just deleted about 7 adventures I started but never could figure out what to do with them. I've got lots of pretty maps I made but no story ideas..

[LordEntrails]

There are a couple of approaches I can think of to create an adventure, it really depends on what you want to create;

First, I wouldn't try to write a story with a plot. Rather, create a setting that includes interesting power groups and events. Then throw your players into it and see what happens! See these series of blog posts for more info on this approach; https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/4147/roleplaying-games/dont-prep-plots and https://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/sandbox/Make%20a%20Fantasy%20Sandbox_111005.pdf

Second is to write something like a mystery; https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/1118/roleplaying-games/three-clue-rule

Third is a location based encounter, similar to the mystery, but location based, see; https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/7949/roleplaying-games/node-based-scenario-design-part-1-the-plotted-approach

Fourth, if you are still unsure, start simple, do a five room dungeon. Make it the location of an orc war chief, or an ogre, or a hermit necromancer; https://thatshowiroleblog.wordpress.com/2016/05/18/the-five-area-dungeon/

Whatever you do, don't try to write an entire campaign. Write a one-shot, or something that might be a handful of encounters that play out over a couple of sessions. No more than that. Start small, then grow.

So, take one of those 7 ideas you have thrown out and give us a summary and why you think it died.

[esmdev]

It takes time and practice. I always recommend new GMs to start with something small. A 4-5 room dungeon with a consistent enemy and simple premise. Say kobolds holding some local villagers captive and the mayor would like them back. Then perhaps you can build on that with orders coming from a goblin chief further in the mountains to give the party a next destination. Each small step builds on the story and before your know it you've started a campaign. :)

[gtw2017]

Or - you can use 'Squareware', available from the Fantasy Grounds webstore. I created it to generate every solution to a DM's need to create meaningful or detailed data and story narrative. check it out before you quit.

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/store/?search=squareware

In the main - It is very rare that enthusaists within the realm of D&D can nail both the imaginative, creative, abstract, artistic side (such as an innovative story-plot, poetic or flowing prose, and create their own maps, artwork, tokens to visually represent their story) - and- also complete and navigate the data-heavy, analytical, numeric, functional, system-oriented, rules, sub-clauses etc that form the backbone of the simulation of a fantasy world and inhabitants and events itself.

Then - it is even rarer - that someone also knows how to code, make extensions, put together modules and correctly organize data and information using a new jargon particular to Fantasy Grounds to implement both of these attributes into a coherent, cohesive, properly functioning, module. But if you have already grasped the underlying mechanics of FG and D&D5e - you will find squareware an unparalleled addition to creating the type of creative content you need - like wrapping flesh over the bones of a skeleton to bring it to life - and you, the creative spark at the helm.

So give squareware a go - it is extremely powerful and there is virtually nothing it will not provide to a DM by way of detail, creative explaination, or the need to generate billions of random and directed objects, npcs, phrases, locations, names, and even allow you to pilot a non-player character without DM bias.

Take a squiz. And be kind to yourself - maybe creation is not your forte, yet. So lean on some tools until you understand the principles - then you should be good to go.

[Zacchaeus]

Create a village; just a small village and populate it with stores and off course a tavern. Then populate those shops and the tavern with people; give them names, families and concerns. Create one or two quests. Keep them simple - goblins raiding farmers fields, bandits on the roads, rats in the old lady's basement. Lean on RPGs that you have played like Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, Fallout, The Outer Worlds for your ideas for quests. Then create rumours, dark dealings at the nearby castle; the burgomaster is rumoured to be a vampire; the people in the next village are all wererats.

Then get the players in; get them to meet and greet all the townsfolk; let them do the first couple of quests. Then let the players decide where they go next. Use one of your maps and populate it with monster. Let the players make up or tell the story. Feed of them for ideas for the next session.

Don't try and create Storm Kings Thunder or Tomb of Annihilation. Aim at something like Lost Mines or Dragon of Icespire Peak. Have an idea of a story arch, but make little episodic adventures along the way.

[ColinBuckler]

As others have said this is fairly easy.....

The way I decide is to create a world map.

You do not need to be an expert cartographer to do this. Use graph or hex paper (or software - free version of https://www.hexographer.com/ ).

Create a village as Zacc say above and place it in a square or hex. Decide (or randomize) each square/hex around it. If the players explore a hex, then determine what terrain is in each square or hex around it.

In essence a hex crawl.....

Second ask your players to come up with a background for their characters, then look to incorporate one of the stories. Maybe the character is on the run or being pursued.,,etc. Using this approach you make the story line personal for that character and so they become involved.

Second - NPC's should have the opportunity to flee/escape. When they flee/escape they are a perfect re-occuring NPC to come back and antagonize the players......

Also if the players come with ideas whilst playing - look to incorporate their ideas - they are a great source. They then can turn around and say "I was right - I told you..." and one again they are drawn into the story line again.

[Talyn]

Yea, I just have no imagination. Been trying to come up with things for 2 years now. I just deleted about 7 adventures I started but never could figure out what to do with them. I've got lots of pretty maps I made but no story ideas..

This is perfect! You have a bunch of ideas that you can plug-n-play into various situations. That's all you need.

Follow this mantra: Prep Situations, Not Story!

If you come up with a cool little action scene, awesome, jot that down and leave it open-ended enough that it can be easily tweaked. Political motivations between the various factions? Sweet! Jot those down, and make them happen in the background. Let the players' choices determine whether they interact with any of these things or not. If they end up not, then you're gradually building up a collection of situations you can drag-n-drop when you need them. If they do interact with something you've constructed, then go for it, and once again, the players' decisions will determine how things proceed.

The 'Story' is what gets told after each session and after the campaign. The entire table creates the story together, based on the GM reacting to the players' decisions for the party and for their individual characters. The characters are the stars of the story, after all. So don't try to sit down and write out a full storyline for everything. That's called writing a novel.

[JohnD]

As Talyn says, prepare situations not an overall story. The overall story will develop itself as your players work through your initial situations.

I remember the first time I ran a game on FG. I prepared a starting scenario I thought I might be lucky to have fill up one 3-4 hour game session. Imagine my surprise when the group was still finishing it up four game sessions later, after roughly 12-14 hours worth of play... all because I was able to adjust and roll with how they reacted to the situations I presented to them.

I think a lot of people get caught up in thinking they have to have a grand overarching plot like the 5e hardcover adventures deliver. Most players that start those I suspect never finish them, either because real life happens, or the DM stops or the player drops out.

Plan one, maybe two sessions ahead and build as you go.

I will say that it also needs you to attract the "right" kind of players for the style and theme of game you want to deliver. Someone who is looking for waves of unending combat is less likely to be long term interested in a game where you need to RP with the locals to gain nuggets of potential adventuring location... and someone who is really looking to immerse themselves in their character may not be happy with one fight after another. In reality, I suspect the average game is a mixture of the two extremes and with many intermediary points of mix.

Situations to start with are key. You can develop plot off the situations and how they work out (or don't...) - even then though you're still working with situations as the base.

[AegisPrime]

Also, don't be afraid to run a pre-written adventure - many of them offer opportunities for you to elaborate on what's already there - maybe flesh out the backstories of major NPCs (or create entirely new ones). Create side-quests and new obstacles - change the environment (destroy the local church - why is it in ruins? Why hasn't it been rebuilt? etc.)

Get good at filling in the blanks in a pre-existing structure/narrative and you'll find it increasingly easy to do it in your own stories.

[notrealdan]

Inspiration can be a tricky thing to draw out, and forcing it can have the opposite effect. Read books, watch movies, read adventure modules, play in other people's games, and watch online gaming streams. Expose yourself to as many different stories as you can so you have a lot to draw inspiration from.

There are really no 100% original stories. Everyone pulls pieces and parts from other works to build their own thing, and this is ok, especially in the context of building an adventure for your group.

Whatever sparks inspiration for you, start there and start small. For example, if you have an idea for a villain, start with them and flesh out small things about them, keeping the scope small. Don't try to write the Lord of the Rings, just cause you thought up Sauron.

[StoryWeaver]

Googling for fantasy art and locations is a great source of inspiration. Also reading short adventure plot ideas and books in general.

Start with a small idea or concept of something that excites you. Think of the story in plot points, or important moments and learn to think and improvise on the fly to fill in depth and story between those during play. You'd be surprised at how many great ideas come during play, spinning into their own tales along side the main story, or even taking over.

Don't try to create a massive arc from the start, particularly if you're inexperienced. Plant seeds, and stories have a way of taking on a life of their own with good players. Events and roleplay beget ideas.

As you start creating parts here and there, you'll start getting a sense of the place, people and story arc. More ideas will start coming to you.
The mind works by association. If you have nothing but a void, there is little to spark or inspire the imagination.

Also listening to thematic adventure music or ambience sounds on youtube while creating your tales. Of the tone and feel of the people, place or adventure you're trying to create, is great for getting those creative juices going.

[NuclearMonkey]

Don't overthink it. Rip off a movie or a book or a tv show. Use the basic structure that a villain wants a THING for REASONS. The heroes want to keep the villain from getting the thing (or want it for themselves). The thing is something called a McGuffin because it doesn't matter what it is. The acquisition of it moves the plot forward. Examples are the ark of the covenant in Raiders, the NOC list in Mission: Impossible, and the suitcase in Pulp Fiction.

Once you have that figured out, you can structure a campaign pulling dungeons and encounters from published adventures.

Alternately, you could find a map, salt it with re-purposed dungeons and encounters from published adventures, give the players a home base like Phandelin or Waterdeep, share the map with the players, and ask them where do they want to go. (This is a pseudo Westward marches game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGAC-gBoX9k ).

Good luck!

[Valyar]

Maybe you can start with published adventures and spare the struggle to come up with your own things, until you have your mojo back?

[goodmanje]

I think I'm going to run the Iron Gods AP next and let some other ideas come without trying to force it. Thanks for all the advice and links. I think I try too hard to create a structured story from start to finish which probably wouldn't be very fun to play since all the decisions are already made for the players. I have one I was working on for Beasts and Barbarians where the characters are imprisoned and I created about 5 scenes where there is literally nothing they can do but be spectators to the unfolding story. I love the story so far but the players would probably be bored to death..... Lol

[goodmanje]

Since I make my own maps in Photoshop I sometime make a series of them that act as inspiration for a story. I just can't get too attached to a pretty map that players may never see.

[Weissrolf]

Do steal. Do steal good. Do good stealing. Mix things up.

I run two kinds of adventures. Premade, aka Pathfinder Adventure Paths. And made-up ones.

The latter ones are me gathering mounts of idea, throwing them in somewhat structures and then see what comes out of the grinder when the group is hit by them. From there on you don't so much need a good GM as a good group, with the GM mostly improvising stuff out of the mix. If the group cannot entertain themselves to some degree then your energy is wasted and you better keep running pre-made stuff and save the creativity for other things. ;)

[LordEntrails]

Good call :)

Remember, a good adventure is a story waiting to be written by the players. Not a story presented to the players.

That said, if you have a good story to write, write it, just don't try to turn it into an adventure :)

[ddavison]

Great tips from everyone. I know that I try to look for opportunities to tie things back to historical player actions whenever possible. It often fools players into thinking that I had some grand over-arching story planned from the beginning that played out perfectly. In truth, most of it just looked that way in the very end. Making someone evil appear friendly before turning on the players is hard to do (they might detect evil or see through the guise) but genuinely having a friendly NPC that they have grown to love end up being some cunning and devious villain all along is very easy to retcon after the fact. You just have to explain why they were helping them up to this point. Was it to get the players to overthrow their villainous rival? Was it to learn more about the players' strengths and weaknesses before taking them on?

[Ellspeth]

goodmanje the best advice I ever got was from a meme though I am sure that started somewhere, work with a concept and let the players determine the future with there wild and often paranoid speculations. You played in part of my campaign, I am not going to tell you how much of what ya'll walked into was the result of some speculation about some clue in a session and I am thinking "Well not here, but that's a great idea, two sessions later you would run into the products of your own fears. And when that campaign picks up again, yeah well I am not giving it away...
Also, I was in a game where a GM had 7 pages of meticulous notes he had to rip up anyway when the PC's focused on a minor NPC he had just added for flavor, and ultimately became a big part of the plot.

[Weissrolf]

...(they might detect evil or see through the guise)

One reason why Pathfinder 2 made all those meta-gaming spells (Detect Evil/thoughts/whatnot) "Uncommon" and thus mostly inaccessible to characters. ;)

[Laerun]

Come on over to FGC, and we can help you and provide you with some sources, and training.

[Griogre]

One last bit of advice for game adventure writing and inspiration. As someone mentioned above there are really no totally brand new stories. Stereotypes. Use them with just a slight twist. Players can have a hard time keeping track of an elaborate plot from week to week, while near stereotypes allow them to remember. Tie your plot lines to the character's back stories and actions, like Doug mentioned, and the campaign will feel alive and responsive.

Then if you want, sprinkle in a villian. What did the party do to piss off the villain (likely unknowingly)? What is the villain doing that will upset the party?

[Beemanpat]

Try watching some of Matthew Colville's "Running the Game" videos on Youtube. I learned so much and was quite inspired at how easy it to get started. Also there's plenty of stuff that's already been done you may have to just give it a tweak to make it make sense to you/your world, but don't give up it's worth it when everything clicks together finally.

[Neovirtus]

Lots of great advice here. I've been playing D&D for 20 years-ish, and DM'ing for about 5. I feel like I'm just now getting into my groove of being a decent storyteller. I DM'd a homebrew campaign for about 3 yrs, which I grew unhappy with and sidelined to run Curse of Strahd (about 6 months in now). I really feel that doing both homebrew and published adventures are great ways to learn, and I think I'll continue to alternate back and forth for the foreseeable future.

One thing I would say is: You don't have to be perfect (or even good, much less great) in order to DM. If you set out with the goal of making sure your players have a great time, you're well on your way to success. Everything else is practice, and experience. Great communities like this one are a huge help, and ease the growing pains, but still there's no shortcut to years of experience.

Thanks for all tips everyone!

[backwardoracle]

I maybe coming a little late to this thread, one thing I've learnt in many years of gaming is don't railroad the players, its great to have an overall theme, but players, (gawd, bless them) have a great habit of thinking of more things than you can for every situation, give them a situation, a few hooks and see what they want to do, what they are interested in doing, you only have to be one or two steps ahead, (and we are really here for you, when that blank hits).

Remember this, the GM helps with the flow, its the players create the story (unless your players really like to be led by the nose).

Heres an introduction I used recently,(well 10 months ago) the pc's who didn't know each other personally before just some by name, came home to see their small fishing village being destroyed by previously cooperative lizardfolk. So the characters have a motivation to work together immediately, thrust into the action from the start not knowing who are their allies or their abilities.

From this small acorn the players have explored, fought & some have died, but in the back of my mind I have the "plot" but tweaked it, changed it, adapted it, to the players needs & wants. the true story writers of my narration.

So never give up, never let them down, you narrate their stories, not the director, let them challenge you for more entertaining "episodes" give everybody a chance to shine. On a personal issue never give magic items to pc's that makes your life harder eg +3 swords of dragon slaying, makes dragons less of an encounter, more a inconvenience.

On the new crop of D&D adventures, yeah, they are way too long, huge overwhelming story arcs, because they have cobbled together so many other adventures in a bigger package. You don't have to run games that way, smaller arc's per level, even one session stories are good.

Btw you said pretty maps? I'm sure we can come up with ideas for those :) post your maps and ask for ideas, levels 1-5 to start, I'm sure you will be flooded with some really fantastic plots. In fact why not make it a kinda challenge. with the winner being published on FG

[MooCow]

I can't create a decent adventure for ****! I think I'm going to resign myself to maybe playing in one game a week and that be as far as I go with this hobby. So frustrated....

There's a few ways to build a campaign: You may want to tell a specific story from start to finish, or you may just feel inspired to present disconnected scenario events. If you have a full story that works, then good - go with that - but if you don't, then creating set pieces, or building upon the art that you've been given/bought, shouldn't be underestimated. Unanchored set pieces that you can dynamically move into the course of the players, will often produce adventures of their own. All you need is some silly little plothook just in case your set pieces fail, like "save the princess" or "slay the dragon". Plenty of different movies have been spun around those overdone hooks. Then you put your three dimensional underwater labyrinth setpiece there, and suddenly the players will realize that water dragons are threats they never dreamed of.

[NuclearMonkey]

This thread just keeps going! If you want to keep it simple, have a town major, sheriff, council, etc., hire the PCs to clear out a cave of some not dumb low level monsters. You could have it turn out the town wants the land for some purpose (minerals, lay lines, whatever). Since the townies are the bad guys the PCs could help your monsters, take over the mine for themselves, burn down the town, whatever. You could build a ton of stuff over keeping control of the mine, the town, or developing the culture of whatever monster you choose. Your PC actions would build how the story goes, so you would only want to prep out a couple encounters and have a rough idea of everybody's motivations.

[goodmanje]

Still have nothing.... Months pass and I fail to put anything together.

[LordEntrails]

So where are you at? What have you put together or have in your mind? Just one thing :)

[goodmanje]

You meet in a tavern....... boredom ensues.

[JohnD]

Personally I find that this is something that can't be forced. Wait for the urge to hit and it will flow much easier.

[monkeyboy_9000]

Id concur with JohnD, Sometimes block is just block. It'll come back at you while you least expect it (always carry a notebook or simillar digital option!)

One thing that i have found useful in the past when experiencing this is to enlist the players into doing some of the heavy lifting. I have shamelessly ripped off the Beyond the Wall RPG's "starting town" generator. by travelling around the table, each player gets to add an NPC, a Town location, a location further away from town and a plot hook - treasure, ruin etc... . You then decide what is true, what is false and what is a bit of both and hey presto you have a starting sandbox with NPCs, locations and hooks in which the players already both know, and are invested in to run with for session 1.

Good luck matey

[lostsanityreturned]

You meet in a tavern....... boredom ensues.

I highly recommend using a simpler system and not planning so much. From what I read you lack experience/confidence and have fallen into a rut of looking for where things could fail or be bad rather than what would be fun for you.

My advice,

- pick up Numenera 2e (very rules lite, focused on improve, generally doesn't require battle maps)
- pick up explorers keys or weird discoveries. They have four page adventures that are intentionally written light and flexible. You can see just how lite and flexible they are by downloading the free preview chapters.

If you feel like you need a more structured experience

- Forbidden lands by fria ligan. Rules medium system and more of an old style sandbox approach with modern mechanics. You can easily run it with zero prep between sessions and just improve everything between. (you do need to read up in advance.

I would like to go on the record stating that I think Paizo while they do write enjoyable adventures, I don't think anything they write is good for new GMs or teaching GMs... They often have word or mechanic soup and it can be overwhelming for many.

But seriously, Numenera... If you feel like you need more help they even have decks of cards that can help. For NPCs, weird additions, devices and such; it would have to be my go to "teaching GMing to people" system.
The GM doesn't even roll dice, it leaves a lot of room for a GM to just do what they feel is right.

[ddavison]

There's nothing wrong with running prepackaged adventures as well. You can always start off with them to provide a framework and then keep an eye out for opportunities to deviate from that story. It's a lot easier than trying to design the story from the ground up. As you gain more experience with that, you can start deviating more and more until you finally feel comfortable enough to completely do your own thing.

Another option might be to see if there are any online or in-person (not likely at the moment) lessons in improv acting.

[ProfDogg]

Campaigns:

Starfinder - Against The Aeon Throne **FAILED
Pathfinder - Iron Gods **FAILED

OK, totally off-topic but I've got to ask... According to your message signature, how badly did you fail Aeon Throne and Iron Gods? ;)

(seriously though, I'd love to hear the stories)

[MODERATOR: moved to a relevant thread]

[Blahness98]

At one point I was going to run this: Town Of Glory (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/176494) (would have linked the FGG store, but their site is getting revamped) with a group since it is a base for them to mess around in. Good for a few levels, if not more. Gives you the basis for building a town and having the PCs gaij resources for said town. Maybe take a look as it is only 2 bucks right now.

[Mytherus]

My 2 cents if they prove even worth that...i much prefer to dm than be a player because i just enjoy storytelling...but i never force it. Forcing creativity is like forcing romance...it just doesn't work that way.

I've written nothing for months because i had no inspiration. Thats step one for me...get inspired. Movies books heck I've gotten ideas from being a player in someone else's game. Aa i get ideas i simply jot them down. I keep a stack of paper in my office for such an occasion.

As others said dont get too detailed or locked in to an exact story with every controlling detail...writing a dnd campaign is not like writing a movie. You don't know what your players will do or where they'll take the story.

I think of what i do is write a framework with plot points that somehow lead to an overall goal. How the players get to each plot point i dont know thats the part i call playing dnd....:)

I generally write my end game first and work backwards btw....it just works for me.

Maps and npcs i create last.

Again weird for some but it works for me I've always created story this way.

[Mysteria_Sdrassa]

yeah.. if i could have a $1 for every grand story campaign i've created that just never came to fruition, i'd be a rich chick.... all my best campaigns started as a one shot.. go get "such and such from the so and so" and let the players run with it... and then shamelessly pull ideas from them that they may mention during the quest and work that into some future plot... use old modules for basic story ideas and fill it in as you go.. Keep on the Borderlands is great for that.. my players were just tooling around that area and "happened upon" a staff in the lizardmen lair and oops, they ended up getting sucked into Ravenloft because it just happened to be the bloodstaff that somehow mysteriously got drawn into thier world and now they are currently trying to foil Senmet in Har'Akir because he's trying to overthrow Ahnktepot, the current Darklord and take over... fun times :)
Start simple and let the story grow on it's own :)

[Milmoor]

You meet in a tavern....... boredom ensues.

Some people (me) find it easier to react than to plan. Let's find out what your style is.

"I look around, trying to get a taste of the mood." Anything peculiar happening?