FGU 2nd Chance Access?

[Salamandar]

Moon Wizard,

Will Fantasy Grounds ever offer loyal players like myself a 2nd chance at accessing the kickstarter pricing and beta testing? Some people (like myself) missed the original opportunity due to life circumstances and living arrangements precluding our awareness (I was quite literally uprooting my entire existence and relocating a thousand miles from everything I knew and cared about, especially my gaming community). Although I will say I find it extremely odd that i didn't even get an email about it at the time. My hope is there is a solution beyond "too bad, ya missed it, and, stfu and wait" which is sadly what I am getting elsewhere.

Well, the squeaky wheel gets the grease so it's worth a shot no matter how hard the haters come down on me (this should be fun /sigh).

Salamandar

P.S. I imagine I am not the only one feeling this sort of angst and cannot be the only one to post about it, yet I was unsuccessful in searching, I do not know if that was a failing on my part or the search algorithm, In either case I apologise If I am beating a dead horse.

[Moon Wizard]

We answered your e-mail query directly.

Unfortunately, Kickstarter does not have any way to support late pledges for the Unity project. We will be making some announcements this week or next week with regards to FGU pricing in our newsletter and on the KS project page.

Newsletter: https://www.facebook.com/fantasygrounds/app/100265896690345/

Regards,
JPG

[Salamandar]

Understood, thank you for the quick response.

-Salamandar

[DM_BK]

I'm with Salamandar...except *shockingly* I missed any information about the KS completely. Now that I look around the forum I'm strongly left with the impression that I'm being punished for not avidly reading/living on this forum. (Sorry, life calls!!!)

I wasn't going to say anything and just shut up and wait for December.... until that recent vote (for pre-release/ea/or wait) came out that I strongly suspect the majority respondents are people that backed the KS and have some sort of entitlement complex. No one votes to wait for something these days unless they already have it and want to make a themselves elite/special. Honestly found myself a little disappointed in this community for the first time in all the long years I've been here.

But anyway...so December was the date generally tossed around for a long time.....now the REST of your customer base (we shall call them the Have-nots) wants to give you their money, when will you allow us to do so? Can you shut up and take our money yet? This has been quite the disappointment.

DM_BK

[ddavison]

Hello DM_BK,

It's a delicate balancing act and we often rely upon feedback from our users to help us land on the right side of things. We have posted details on upcoming pricing and release info here:
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?52411-Fantasy-Grounds-Unity-Pricing-and-Upgrade-Paths

If you are not currently a subscriber on the Newsletter, please consider subscribing to it from the Help menu on the main website.
https://www.facebook.com/fantasygrounds/app/100265896690345/

We try to notify people of opportunities on the forums, Facebook, Twitter and the newsletter.

[DM_BK]

Thanks for the reply D,

I well remember the old owners and you guys have always been worlds better... I really just want some sort of idea as to when you expect the Have-nots to be allowed to participate? I don't think there is much harm in a direct offering on your web site for FGU, at this point(you had publicly stated shooting for December previously)...matter-a-fact, I think you need to make the store page let people know that a new version (that requires new licencing fees) is on the horizon. Right now buyers that don't check the forums, would have no idea that they are going to be buying something that isn't going to be the latest and greatest in the near future. Just a suggestion.

I've signed up for the newsletter. Thanks for that!

DM_BK

[Kyler]

Thanks Doug. You all do a great job of informing the community of the current state of Fantasy Grounds, new development efforts, and Smiteworks as a company. We all appreciate it.

[Valatar]

I empathize, there were kickstarters that I found out about literally hours after they ended, and it sucks super hard. I'd at least offer current owners the lower Kickstarter price for upgrades until release day comes, since the Kickstart crew still got a pile of extra digital assets for the money we still got the best deal. If 2020 rolls around and someone still hasn't bought the upgrade and FGU comes out, at that point it's kinda on them for missing the pre-order discount.

[LordEntrails]

As you can see in this thread; https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?52185-Poll-Early-Access-or-Pre-Sale-in-December
SmiteWorks inquired from the community about what to do. The response, though not absolutely dismissive or definitive about allowing second chance access to FGU Beta, was pretty clear (currently 75%).

I suspect once they have a scheduled release date for FGU, the current listings on the FG Store and Steam pages will change to reflect that. It's always a bit of bummer when you buy something only to have it replaced with a newer model, but that what really has to happen. I mean last time you bought a computer, a jacket, a pair of shoes, or anything else, was their a disclaimer on it stating that a newer model was coming out that you would have to re-buy if you wanted it?

[deer_buster]

DM_BK, I am sorry you feel like you are being jilted out of experiencing the growing pains of FGU. It is not "playable" yet, and it potentially could take months to get to a "playable" state. From experience, setting arbitrary dates for a product launch many months in advance sets you up for the possibility of failure and disappointment by your customers.

There isn't an "entitlement" complex by members of the Closed Alpha/Beta test, we (the community) just want the best possible experience for users prior to reaching the Open Beta release. If it were to reach the general public with as many open issues as there are now, there would be massive rants and raves about how FGU sucks and nobody should ever buy it.

Those who participated in the KS were active enough on any one of multiple social media sites, newsletter subscribers, or members of one of the several discord servers that mentioned the kickstarter so many times that I was tired of hearing about it before it even went live, that you pretty much had to be an inactive owner to not know about it. There are many kickstarters that I would have liked to know about before they closed but have no way to participate in afterwards. Given that you have a path forward once Open Beta comes, and that hopefully won't be much longer, and that there aren't even any FGU Demo licenses to let your players play for free, hopefully you can force yourself to wait with baited breath for the release to come.

[Larsenex]

This is a rather important thread. I too wanted to get into beta. I still would like to. However. I am happy at this point knowing a few things.

1) The FG team currently have a strong group of dedicated beta testers to get the platform where it needs to be. I am confident that the data being poured into the Fantasy Grounds team far exceeds what they can comb through and use.
2) I purchased the Ultimate license. I am also happy that I can get the FGU Ultimate later on at a discount. I can wait, read the unity feedback and watch the developer Friday videos.

If there is a change where we as subscribers and licensee's can get into the beta I will be waiting and ready.

[DM_BK]

"Hold FGU release until 2020 for more polish" The word polish strongly suggests that a product is mostly feature complete.

Anyway, I've come off my mountain to make my 40ish post in like 13 years, to voice the issue. The way I see it, SW can do what ever they please and should ask themselves what the "right thing" for their customers and themselves. They've satisfied the KS people, now, please, satisfy the rest of your customers.

Thank you!

[deer_buster]

"polish" was a bad bit of wording for the survey. It should have read "Hold FGU release until it is ready to play a session without major issues"...whereas currently it cannot at all.

If you were to buy a solely multiplayer game and were unable to connect to any other player to play, you'd be pretty pissed off and demand your money back. Kind of that right now.

[Bidmaron]

DM-BK, if you had simply subscribed to the newsletter, you would have been notified. I don’t understand how someone who has owned a license for 13 years and posts an average of 3 posts a year until most recent rant feels entitled to personal notification of an upcoming ks. It was originally announced on 1 April this year and started a month later with a 30 day period.
While I don’t believe any of the response on the voting thread was based upon any snobby preservation of acccess for KS backers, any voter might have felt that. Kickstarter has specific rules that must be followed by participants, as you are aware. And backers have a little bit of a right to expect some limited privilege out of their backing.
If you are disappointed at the community, it is only a reflection that you really haven’t been a participant. Your attitude is frankly baffling....

[DM_BK]

I didn't ask for a personal notification lol. I only became aware of the KS right after it closed. Such is life (and wasn't what I was complaining about). Clearly I wasn't the only one that doesn't spend time on the forums. Seriously though: Wasn't at all the point to my posts.

BK

[Bidmaron]

Well, it’s the holidays and I guess we all need a good rant from time to time. Anyway, sorry you missed it, and I hope you enjoy FG and when available, FGU!

[Salamandar]

DM_BK, I am sorry you feel like you are being jilted out of experiencing the growing pains of FGU. It is not "playable" yet, and it potentially could take months to get to a "playable" state. From experience, setting arbitrary dates for a product launch many months in advance sets you up for the possibility of failure and disappointment by your customers.

There isn't an "entitlement" complex by members of the Closed Alpha/Beta test, we (the community) just want the best possible experience for users prior to reaching the Open Beta release. If it were to reach the general public with as many open issues as there are now, there would be massive rants and raves about how FGU sucks and nobody should ever buy it.

Those who participated in the KS were active enough on any one of multiple social media sites, newsletter subscribers, or members of one of the several discord servers that mentioned the kickstarter so many times that I was tired of hearing about it before it even went live, that you pretty much had to be an inactive owner to not know about it. There are many kickstarters that I would have liked to know about before they closed but have no way to participate in afterwards. Given that you have a path forward once Open Beta comes, and that hopefully won't be much longer, and that there aren't even any FGU Demo licenses to let your players play for free, hopefully you can force yourself to wait with baited breath for the release to come.


Wow!

"I was tired of hearing about it before it even went live, that you pretty much had to be an inactive owner to not know about it"

Most of your post was spot on but this statement is extremely presumptive and illustrates the "entitlement" he was referencing.

This kind of soap box rant leaves a bad taste in my mouth, I posted hat in hand knowing I would get stepped on, let's at least refrain from attacking anyone but myself the original poster. You have no idea why or how someone might be unaware, life is full of very strange circumstances that sometimes put us out of contact with the things we love most, that doesn't mean we don't care or aren't loyal, it just means we were without the means to be aware for whatever reason....

P.S. If someone is implying that post count = interest, I submit that some are more vocal, some are less, we all are avid fans and remain interested, saying you somehow are lesser due to a low post count seems a very false metric to measure by, but that's just me.

[damned]

Forums involve responses in black and white. Sometimes the responses dont accurately convey the nuanced message that was intended. Sometimes the reader interprets things in an unexpected way. Far and away most posters here, the very vast majority, have reasonable intentions in taking the time to reply. When a response is not in agreement with the initial question or request misunderstandings or minor abrasions are quite likely to occur even though unintended. On top of that many posters do not have English as their first language and there are several generations of age groups represented too. All in all - plenty of opportunity to potentially feel slighted where there was no intent.

It is generally best to assume that the other participants also want a good outcome for each other - even if they are telling you that outcome isnt going to happen.

[DM_BK]

Allow me to clear up a couple of things and then I'll be happy to see this thread die.

I use Fantasy Grounds almost every day and have for a very long time. I go to the forums very rarely (more recently) because I don't have a lot of reason to do so. I don't do any social media, rarely read the news, and rarely watch TV. Getting the word to me is not that easy. Matter-a-fact I sat at a table game (10 people!), just this last Saturday and someone said FG Ultimate was on sale (with intent to purchase). I told them it was to be replaced in the near future...9 other nerds, sitting around me had no idea about FGU!!!! And they don't all live on the lonely mountain as I do.

Reading through the written responses, on the poll thread, left a bad taste in my mouth. So my first message was sharper then I generally would be. It was something of a tantrum when I don't get my toys. ;)

Regardless of how I sounded, you are actually entitled to the rewards when you are a kick starter backer...so the use of the word entitled isn't always a negative, despite how society generally views the term. I think people took my use of that word harsher then it was intended. The rest of it though was just me ranting.

Anyway, I hope we see something out of the fine folks at SW fairly soon for the rest of us.

BK

[deer_buster]

Wow!

"I was tired of hearing about it before it even went live, that you pretty much had to be an inactive owner to not know about it"

Most of your post was spot on but this statement is extremely presumptive and illustrates the "entitlement" he was referencing.

This kind of soap box rant leaves a bad taste in my mouth, I posted hat in hand knowing I would get stepped on, let's at least refrain from attacking anyone but myself the original poster. You have no idea why or how someone might be unaware, life is full of very strange circumstances that sometimes put us out of contact with the things we love most, that doesn't mean we don't care or aren't loyal, it just means we were without the means to be aware for whatever reason....

P.S. If someone is implying that post count = interest, I submit that some are more vocal, some are less, we all are avid fans and remain interested, saying you somehow are lesser due to a low post count seems a very false metric to measure by, but that's just me.

Wow, meant no offense...just giving my personal viewpoint on it. Sorry that it offended you.

[pollux]

While I can understand feeling "left out" of the chatter around FGU... the beta is really an "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" situation. It has been impossible to run a networked game so far (that may have changed with today's update, but I suspect there are still major issues that would stop a play session dead). The actions tab in character sheets has problems. Many (most?) people have trouble opening their existing campaigns. Many rulesets still have major issues that prevent local play. I've spent most of my time in the beta drawing line-of-sight layers for maps I'll never use so that Doug and SW employees can focus on more valuable tasks, I've probably spent 15 hours doing this. I've spent another 10 or 15 hours reading forum posts and trying to reproduce and clarify bugs reported by other people, taking videos in OBS and posting them to the forum as GIFs so devs can waste less time investigating incomplete bug reports. I haven't used FGC or FGU for any of my own prep or play since the beta started. I think I'm a slightly extreme case, but essentially no one is using FGU for real games or doing their campaign prep in it for real.

So the idea that loyal customers who didn't participate in the kickstarter are "missing out" on the beta doesn't reflect the reality of what it's like to be in the beta... which feels more like "I paid for the privilege of donating my time as a QA engineer and map artist". I don't say that disparagingly, SW is trying to push out a product that's a little too big for a company their size, and they need help and we all WANT them to succeed. I'm gladly pitching in, but I'm for sure not playing games with FGU, it's not useful for that purpose yet. I think this is part of why it rankles when people casually toss around the idea of "entitled" backers. I don't want to say there's no truth behind the concept... but disproportionately the backers who are active in this forum are investing our time trying to improve the product in service of the community... and generally doing so INSTEAD of having fun with FGC. The idea that we're trying to hoard all the FGU fun for ourselves is... I dunno... it doesn't feel great and it doesn't feel true. Smiteworks wants to release this thing ASAP, when it's fun to use they're going to take it out of beta without delay. The active beta testers are trying to help them do that faster and better than they can by themselves.

And from that perspective, anyone can be in the beta even if they don't have access to FGU yet. Spend time each day in the forums and on the discord answering people who ask FAQs that are already addressed in the sticky posts. When someone posts a bug report in the playtest forum that is difficult to understand (this happens nearly every day), ask them questions to get more info so that when a dev comes by they're looking at a complete and coherent report. If that's not how you imagined participating in the beta to be, I suspect you'd find that FGU in its current state is mostly irritating and not at all useful to you.

[Trenloe]

Well put @pollux. There is definitely the thought from a few users that "beta testing" is "fully functional with only a few quirks" - definitely not in the current level of FG Unity. There are regular posts in the forums from people who are trying to play with FG Unity - despite the fact that it's stated it's not ready for that yet, nor are the developers looking at that side of the code in earnest yet. It's understandable that people want to use it to play, but their expectations must be managed - otherwise FG ends up with bad press and (more) disgruntled users. Hence why the vast majority voted against any further early access to FGU.

Please understand where FGU is and wait semi-patiently for the future release. Keep using FG Classic to enjoy gaming with your friends... :)

[Kyler]

Thumbs up Pollux. Very well put!!