Dice Velocity

[JethroTundra]

Just started playing with the beta.

Yes, I did check the sticky post to avoid posting duplicate topics, but I didn't see this one.

First difference I noticed is the dice bounce around in the chat window with more kinetic energy than in FG and take longer to come to a stop.

Is there, or could there be, an option to adjust this?

3d animated dice are great, but my honest preference would be to have no animation most of the time and just display a die roll result instantly. I don't like waiting 5 seconds for an attack role to resolve.

[Kelrugem]

the physical properties of the dice may be adjusted later :) But I hope they do not remove the physical dice :) (it is then nearer the "real" randomness of physical dice, instant resolution of virtual dice would have to be done by random tables and they are not really random which is the reason why some vtt's like FG use physical simulations or other physical experiments (like Roll20 with its quantum experiment behind the die rolls) :) )

[Jaxilon]

I think this might be a lower priority to other issues however....I also enjoy the rolling as I think it adds to that edge of your seat feeling that comes to the one rolling it. Especially in those clinch moments.

That said, I wouldn't mind being able to adjust it. Super fast is hard to keep your eye on and too slow seems like something is unnatural which is kind of what it looks like to me atm. It's just not quite right.

I just starting to poke around myself in FGU so depending on bugs and glitches this may or may not bother me :)

I will say that one of the things that sold me when I was shopping for a VTT was how the dice "felt" in FG so let's not screw that up.

[Moon Wizard]

As I've mentioned in other posts, I'm about 90% happy with the dice system so far in FGU; but I do think that the physics need some tweaking. Unfortunately, physics tweaking is a bit of a rabbit hole and the dice work now, so it will be something looked at later.

Regards,
JPG

[ronlugge]

But I hope they do not remove the physical dice :) (it is then nearer the "real" randomness of physical dice, instant resolution of virtual dice would have to be done by random tables and they are not really random which is the reason why some vtt's like FG use physical simulations or other physical experiments (like Roll20 with its quantum experiment behind the die rolls) :) )

The difference in randomness between a proper PRNG and actually random physical dice rolling is, at the level we're talking about, literally indistinguishable -- and damned near undetectable by any measuring tool available.

As for 'random tables', I can't imagine any use for a table in generating a random number, and I studied the subject pretty extensively in college. A proper PRNG will use a function of some sort -- somewhere between 'merely' complex and 'OMG WTF this is insane' complex.

The most basic PRNG equation -- R = ((S + M) * N) % D -- is more than sufficient for most purposes, including RPG playing. The Mersenne Twister (much more complex) is even better.

Edit:

For clarity, I don't object to dice superstition. It can be fun. But please, don't try to pretend it's anything *but* dice superstition.

[LordEntrails]

As long as I can change the color of my FG dice when they misbehave, I'm good!

[VenomousFiligree]

3d animated dice are great, but my honest preference would be to have no animation most of the time and just display a die roll result instantly. I don't like waiting 5 seconds for an attack role to resolve.

If you type a dice roll into chat that isn't a standard dice (ie 2d5) you get an instant report, so it certainly looks like it could be achievable from an option.

[Kelrugem]

The difference in randomness between a proper PRNG and actually random physical dice rolling is, at the level we're talking about, literally indistinguishable -- and damned near undetectable by any measuring tool available.

As for 'random tables', I can't imagine any use for a table in generating a random number, and I studied the subject pretty extensively in college. A proper PRNG will use a function of some sort -- somewhere between 'merely' complex and 'OMG WTF this is insane' complex.

The most basic PRNG equation -- R = ((S + M) * N) % D -- is more than sufficient for most purposes, including RPG playing. The Mersenne Twister (much more complex) is even better.

Edit:

For clarity, I don't object to dice superstition. It can be fun. But please, don't try to pretend it's anything *but* dice superstition.

I am not proficient with random tables in coding languages ("random" in sense of not been connected to a physical engine/experiment etc.), so I might be surely wrong about that, but I am a physicist and one thing I always learned is: Do not use random tables when you want physical randomness :) I basically only referred to that :) (Coded randomness can not be random since you have a code describing it in a non-statistical manner such that it is not random by definition anymore; but of course this is geek talk now here, when one is not interested into the nature of randomness and determination then that is not really important :D)

There is some random table in Matlab for example, when one had some exercise and rolled on that directly after starting matlab then one always got the same value. That is some "proof"/example which roughly shows that a code behind randomness basically is against the definition of randomness (there are of course better random tables with e.g. smaller time steps and so on but still that problem may be there. They can hide that problem extremely good, sure, but it is still there). So, of course it depends on the level of definition of randomness. There is even one more level beyond that, when something is described statistically then first of all only because one has not enough information to calculate results deterministically ("entropy unequal to zero" as a physicist would say). This doesn't mean that its nature is discribed by randomness, one could calculate the outcome of a die when one would have all informations along the motion of the die but this is so much "chaotic" information which we normally never can achieve to know and therefore it is easier to describe it statistically. From a pure classical mechanic point of view, dice are deterministic. Thus, it is a very interesting question whether there is real randomness in our world, there is quantum physics though... But maybe we have just a lack of information describing it and it can be deterministic? Who knows, that's something physicists discuss already a very very long time :D A very philosophical question which probably never gets answered :)

What I only wanted to say is that the physical die via simulation or a physical experiment is just some higher level of randomness and from a nerdy point of view that is really nice :D I always thought that this is the reason why such things are advertised as "We have a physical die!" in VTTs but maybe I am wrong here :D

(and I want to see my dice :p)

(Sorry, when you ask a physicist about such things such messages can happen :p Though I am interested to hear about random tables because I have just a very basic knowledge about that; but this forum may be not the best place :) I understand what you say though, I was just more interested about the "abstract idea/understanding" or "philosophy" behind it; one could say random tables are a simulation of randomness and I like it when one does not need to simulate this (whatever this means, also something one can discuss as outlined above) :) It was not about whether one can distinguish them in sense of measurement)

[LordEntrails]

If you type a dice roll into chat that isn't a standard dice (ie 2d5) you get an instant report, so it certainly looks like it could be achievable from an option.
Non-standard dice do not use the physics engine. Instead they use a random number generator.

Suggestions for enhancements/options/features are best added to the wishlist. I believe the intended feature set for FGU is well defined at this point and will not be changing before production/public release.
https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/

[VenomousFiligree]

Non-standard dice do not use the physics engine. Instead they use a random number generator.
Does that have an impact on my comment? FGU obviously handles both, so therefore I wouldn't have thought it would be too hard to provide it is an option (but then I'm not a coder).


Suggestions for enhancements/options/features are best added to the wishlist. I believe the intended feature set for FGU is well defined at this point and will not be changing before production/public release.
https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/
I'll leave that to JethroTundra, I'm quite happy with it as it is, I was just offering my thoughts.

[LordEntrails]

Does that have an impact on my comment? FGU obviously handles both, so therefore I wouldn't have thought it would be too hard to provide it is an option (but then I'm not a coder).
Not really, was only meant to educate :)

I don't think it would be too hard to do, but not sure either. Either way it would be the wishlist to get it into the queue for consideration :)