Players missing games

[skybluerob]

Hi,

Two players didn't show up for our game tonight, without letting anyone know. As any DM will know, a lot of work goes into the preperation of these games, and it is dissapointing when players don't turn up.

We still had a great session tonight, but I was wondering if there are any plans to have a kind of player recognition feature here on Fantasy Grounds (similar to ebay type feedback).

That way you will know whether or not a player that is joining your game is reliable or not. FG needs DMs, but if people let them down, then the number of players bothering to DM will diminish.

I would be interested to hear anyones comments on this idea.

Rob.

[devinnight]

I can understand your frustration.
I think a score system could work, but only if approached in a positive way..
If it could be implemented then DM's could only post positive feeback for players.

If you posted negative feedback it could lead to abusive remarks and people getting upset when negative remarks were left when they had no chance to defend themselves and so on..

However with positive feedback people could strive to get good remarks and prove that they are worthy players. It might also lead to other players seeing what things get positive feeback and make them more aware of their own actions.

Of course I believe that people want to be good and repsected. I think negative feedback could only lead to more negativity.

So maybe just a thread where positive remarks can be left for good players.

-D

[aberto2k]

I agree with devinnight, a ranking system would have to be limited to positive remarks.

I may even go one step further and suggest then no written remarks be used but at the end of a session, adventure or campaign a DM ranks the players on a scale of 1 to 10.

However - players should also be able to rank DM's on the same scale.

It's just a thought - I doubt a ranking system can be easily set up inside FG and a third party solution would likely be ignored.

Be seeing you,

AB

[Snikle]

vB actually has a way to do reputations, however, I am not sure if it could be edited in a way you mention.

[joeru]

I agree with devinnight, a ranking system would have to be limited to positive remarks.

I may even go one step further and suggest then no written remarks be used but at the end of a session, adventure or campaign a DM ranks the players on a scale of 1 to 10.

However - players should also be able to rank DM's on the same scale.

It's just a thought - I doubt a ranking system can be easily set up inside FG and a third party solution would likely be ignored.

Be seeing you,

AB

A ranking system based on "quality of playing" would be horrible, in my opinion - different strokes for different folks, and all that. I pitch for a meter showing the amount of sessions attended/sessions missed on people who apply for your campaign.

[skybluerob]

Yes, I think a sessions played/missed/missed without notice/dropped out/kicked out log would be very useful. I agree that we don't want to rate a player's actual gamesplaying performance.

No animosity would be caused as you are only stating raws facts about the players.

The DM should also be obliged to include the number of sessions not played due to the DM cancelling.

However, these facts would be very useful to DMs and the FG community at large (if as a player you sign up to a game with 3 others players, all of which dropped out of previous games, you know that the game won't last very long. also you would be able to see if the DM was committed as well).

Could a pinned thread be started on this subject? Each DM running a game could keep updating their post as the game went on.

Rob.

[Snikle]

Honestly though, in the extreme-PC world we live in today, some over sensitive type will get on here and cry about it being unfair, that the DM was unfair or some other BS.

[Griogre]

Someone will always cry. That's not the question. The question is would a list be useful so you didn't waste your time with people who don't show up.

Also the RPGA has had a working rating scheme for players and DM at their tournaments for years - it is based on a standard size for a group though.

[Snikle]

Someone will always cry. That's not the question. The question is would a list be useful so you didn't waste your time with people who don't show up.

Good point. I wouldn't mind seeing a tally done.

[aberto2k]

Yes, a basic attendance record/system would actually be the better more neutral solution.

Be seeing you,

AB

[richvalle]

Not sure if this is something Smiteworks should do. Maybe FUM or another fan site?

rv

[skybluerob]

Why do you think Smiteworks shouldn't do this?

Rob.

[Cavalieri]

This would be almost trivial to setup for someone who had the time, but it would need broad support from a number of the gaming forums. If you could get one place where all of the online RP gamers went, had profiles, and where DMs setup games, you could easily do this in a 3rd party way.

Personally, I think "Attended, Skipped, Missed w/ Notice" would be a nice measure... and maybe allowed additional POSITIVE comments to be placed by anyone on anyone else in their gaming session (Player->DM, DM->Player, Player->Player)... the person receiving the comment could delete it at their discretion (to make sure the comments were positive).

If this is something that folks would be interested in, I can set it up and provide hosting for it, etc. (And any other PHP devs would be welcome to help).

[richvalle]

Why do you think Smiteworks shouldn't do this?

Rob.

It just doesn't seem like something the game programers should do but the game community.

No?

rv

[Ram Tyr]

This is already available in the form of 'references'. As groups form they can certainly speak with others that have previously grouped with other potential group members. Incidentally, this works for players and DMs. This is pretty straight forward and I have seen it put to good use.

Groups could self report this kind of information in their session synopsis posts. This effectively publishes the information and allows for easy access to the information when a request for a reference does come in. The publication of absences acts as a deterrent to not showing up as long as everyone knows that is what happens when you do not show up without having informed the group.

Later.

[Snikle]

Not sure if this is something Smiteworks should do. Maybe FUM or another fan site?

Gasp! Is there another FG fansite? :D

[richvalle]

Well, none that >I< know about but I never like to think that I know everything!

Your guys is definatly the best!!! (that I know about). :)

rv

[skybluerob]

All it really needs is a pinned thread. But it would require the buy-in of DMs to update it. As this community provides the useful calendar function, it would make sense to use it on here, about the registered users of this community that will sign up to your games.

I'll give it some thought and start a thread in the guild house. I don't want it to come accross as a witch hunt, it just adds a bit of responsibilty and investment for showing up, as well as being a useful tool for players and DMs alike.

[Cavalieri]

All it really needs is a pinned thread. But it would require the buy-in of DMs to update it. As this community provides the useful calendar function, it would make sense to use it on here, about the registered users of this community that will sign up to your games.

I'll give it some thought and start a thread in the guild house. I don't want it to come accross as a witch hunt, it just adds a bit of responsibilty and investment for showing up, as well as being a useful tool for players and DMs alike.

While this might be better than nothing, it seems like a horrible idea.

Because the threads aren't themselves threaded, it would take a huge amount of reading to find info on the players you're looking for. Misspellings of player names, posts in lots of different locations, etc... and then what happens if you as a DM or player post something that someone else disagrees with? It degrades into a giant debate and the whole point gets lost. Eventually it'll be so much work that nobody will bother with it.

Also: who is going to police the thread?

The "use the right tool for the job" proverb comes to mind, and a thread is the absolute worst tool for this job, I think.

[richvalle]

Yeah, a thread doesn't seem like a good way to track this sort of thing. Though the heart is in the right place. :)

Maybe we can see what Cavalieri whips up.

rv

[Sigurd]

I can understand that it sucks when people just dont show. I know it.


I can proudly say I don't think I've ever missed a session, but I've had 3 DMs get a life and move on in the middle of an adventure. One of them simply fell of the edge of the world and to this day there has never been a response to emails or anything.

I think having a computer keep track of people's movements is usually a bad idea. I think as DMs you have a task ahead of you to build a group you like playing with and who are reliable. Fgrounds doesn't change that.


In truth, I think Fgrounds is partially responsible for how inconvenient it is when a player doesnt show. There is no simple way of sliding a character over to another player to cover for a friend.

In face to face play that's how we've always played it. If the missing player is jerking us around there is always a 'law of the pecos' that helps even the score.

I can understand your frustration, really I can, but I think its basically how life works.

Sigurd

[Elf]

I agree with Sigurd you have to build a group, in this day and age of instant gratification one of the essential socials skills is usually lost; the ability to integrate and/or establish a viable group of people that share a long term interest.

We have been lucky in our group but we do have the occasional no shows, usually with warning. Our DM only allows server characters and he just gives edit access to whover the Player (or group consensus if no preference is given) wishes to play the character for that session. It seems to work well for us.

[skybluerob]

OK, I concede that doing this in a thread might be a bad idea. However I do think it's a good idea overall if someone can come up with a decent way to do things like this. I wouldn't mind monitering such a service and dealing with any complaints.

I agree about getting reliable groups, but every game has to start somewhere, and I wouldn't want potential DMs (or players) to be put off by players (or DMs) that don't have the neccesary commitment. If everyone just stuck to reliable groups, eventually there would be no games for new players to join.

Hopefully someone can suggest as to a good way of logging this. At this end of the day, all that would be needed is a simple register. You can't argue with whether you showed up or not. You either showed up you didn't, and you either gave notice or you didn't.

Rob.

[Cavalieri]

I agree with Sigurd and Elf to a certain degree... but just because it is a DMs responsibility to find a good group of players doesn't mean that giving him or her another source for information to help make that decision is going to be a bad thing. In fact, it can't be a bad thing... if you don't like the source, don't use it.

If, as a player, you object to being tracked... don't register and don't play in games that are going to use the tracker.

...so I guess here's a summary of what I'm thinking of that's articulated a little better.

In my mind it will work like this: players and DMs register in the system. A DM creates a game (See Note 1) and invites players to join it (typically this will be players that have already been recruited through some other means, FG forum, FUM, etc...). Once a session is over the DM goes into the system and adds a session to the game and enters attendance for each player as one of the following: Attended, Missed, Missed w/ Notice, Missed w/o Notice (See Note 2). At any point during the game or for a short time after the game is over players can leave comments for each other or the DM and the DM can leave comments on the players. They should be positive comments only, and policing that will be up to the recipient of the comment, who can delete it at any time if he or she feels like it.

Note 1: The game will include a description of the game, the likely dates and times of play, the DMs policy on attendance notification, software used, and other vitals.

Note 2: Attended and Missed are neutral and factual... you were either there or not. I can see the potential for people to complain about notice ("I notified you!") so there should probably be a "Missed, Notification Disputed" option. I'm also considering adding a "Technical Difficulties" option so that someone who didn't attend the session, didn't give notice, but had trouble with their internet connection or software can claim this.

Note 3: I'm not sure what the mechanics should be for a DM bailing on a session... it seems like we'd want to differentiate between cancelling a planned session, and simply changing the schedule. I'm open to suggestions on this.



Anyone who wants to help out with the actual coding or design should PM me. I'm not sure how much help I'll actually need or be able to use, but it's good to have options. I think working on the specs and mechanics should probably just take place in the forum so everyone has a chance to put their two cents in.

Final thought: I'm not doing this to try to corral everyone into some sort of tracking scheme... I'm just providing an option... if, once it's done, people decide it's a horrible idea, it won't hurt my feelings.

[Griogre]

By the way have you heard of the site called Neverwinter Connections? Part of what that site does is exactly what you are trying to do here. It rates players and DMs and is a clearing house for finding games. https://www.neverwinterconnections.com/

[Cavalieri]

Looks like a great place to crib ideas from... but to my understanding this wouldn't actually be a site that FG players could use for non-NWN games, right?

[Griogre]

The sites mission is Neverwinter Nights Games. It might be interesting to ask if they would allow FG games. There is probably a good chance they might if they had the spare bandwidth ect, after all many of the NWN players also do play D&D. I"m not sure how narrowly focused they are.