PDA

View Full Version : what is CL in DMG supposed to mean



yarnevk
October 16th, 2019, 19:13
Caster Level?
Cast Level?
Character Level?

The main use for this I could think of is to heighten spells - which means it would be Cast Level. But when apply BurnIt extra fire damage it was clearly functioning as Character Level (workaround is to use half odd CL - but that does not work if you are using it at a lower cast level)

Normally Cast Level heightens both die and constant damage, but seems not available to multiply die?

Allmight
October 16th, 2019, 19:36
Caster Level. The level you have in your spellcasting class.

Phenomen
October 16th, 2019, 20:19
Caster Level = Character Level. There is no multiclassing in PF2.

Trenloe
October 16th, 2019, 20:37
Caster Level = Character Level.
In terms of PF1 thinking of caster level, this is correct.


There is no multiclassing in PF2.
PF1 type multi-classing is not present in PF2. But there is multiclassing in PF2 - it involves archetype dedication feats that have the "multiclass" trait which is: "multiclass (trait) Archetypes with the multiclass trait represent diversifying your training into another class’s specialties."

Trenloe
October 16th, 2019, 20:41
To address the OP. My design philosophy with PF2 is to not remove things from the legacy FG ruleset PFRPG2 is built on (3.5E) if they are not in direct opposition to the PF2 rules. The main reason for this is to allow flexibility and cater for possible future features/functionality brought out by Paizo and third-party-publishers. The "CL" tag in the spell class header is one such legacy from the 3.5E ruleset and defaults to the character level, but can be manually changed. It does no harm leaving it in there, and it maybe allows flexibility in spell classes (which can also be used for actions and abilities not specifically related to spells) that could be used in ways I can't begin to imagine...

Phenomen
October 16th, 2019, 20:49
PF1 type multi-classing is not present in PF2. But there is multiclassing in PF2 - it involves archetype dedication feats that have the "multiclass" trait which is: "multiclass (trait) Archetypes with the multiclass trait represent diversifying your training into another class’s specialties."I know. There is no such term as "caster level" in PF2. It doesn't matter what archetype you take or how much feats invest in it. Spells use your character level.

Trenloe
October 16th, 2019, 20:52
I know. There is no such term as "caster level" in PF2. It doesn't matter what archetype you take or how much feats invest in it. Spells use your character level.
Sorry, I was not disputing your caster level statement, hence why I agreed with you! I was clarifying terminology around your "There is no multiclassing in PF2" statement for anyone reading this thread and thinking that the ability to multiclass (get feats and features of other classes) wasn't possible in Pathfinder Second Edition, when it actually is.

yarnevk
October 16th, 2019, 21:07
Why not change it to be Cast Level - which would actually fit the ruleset and be very useful for automated spell heightening?

Spells are already organized by Cast Level so that information is there. If it is a cantrip then it just needs to check the spell class table to see what is the max Cast Level you have.

Trenloe
October 16th, 2019, 21:30
Why not change it to be Cast Level - which would actually fit the ruleset and be very useful for automated spell heightening?
Remember that this CL we're discussing is set at the whole spell class level - so it makes more sense as defaulting to character level - as it is used to apply a generic CL modifier to all entries within that specific spell class. So changing the CL in a whole spell class to be the level an individual spell is cast at doesn't match with where the data is stored and used.

Like I said, I don't like removing functionality (which changing the "CL" entry in damage and effects would effectively do) unless it's something that is in direct opposition with ruleset functionality. You make a good point about the spell prepared slot level being useful. I'll look into adding the prepared spell slot level as an effect/modifier.

yarnevk
October 17th, 2019, 17:01
For some reason the druid is set as Caster Level CL 3 in the spell class while the cleric is set as CL 2 even though they are both max Cast Level 2, Character/Caster Level 3. If it is indeed Character Level is it supposed to be incremented automatically when you level up? Does not seem to impact the spell Roll/DC so it seems it is only used for the CL tag?

It is bad ruleset design to carry over PF1 things that are not in the PF2 rules given the only things the rulesets have in common is OGL when they are so mechanically different. This is not D&D3.75. It requires players to learn about vestigial things when there is already too much to learn - especially when I could not find any documentation on what it was (not in PDF nor SRD).

I read it as Caster Level as in Max Cast Level the spell caster has, others say it is Character Level, when it turns out it was only for PF1 multiclassing where you took levels in different classes?

I only even noticed it because a +1.5 bonus was on the dmg line (half of level 3), which a is against the rules itself because round down rules was not followed (it is correct in chat window when rolled). Since the spell says cast level, when character leveled up to 4 but cast at level 1 it should be a bonus of 1 not 2.

Trenloe
October 17th, 2019, 17:07
For some reason the druid is set as Caster Level CL 3 in the spell class while the cleric is set as CL 2 even though they are both max Cast Level 2, Character/Caster Level 3. Isn't that supposed to be incremented automatically when you level up? No multiclassing feats.
Not sure what you're referring to here. Could you provide more details please? Screenshots, steps taken to reproduce, etc..