Stability Issues in FG

[richvalle]

A recent post has me wondering... how many people out there have stability issues when they run as a HOST?

Personally, I think I've crashed 3 times in the past year and 2 of them were from known issues with big maps and FOW and on the same night (till I remembered about the bug).

[Griogre]

I put no because in my game where I have the same players every week, I almost never crash. In my open table game which has a lot of different players I crash about once every 3 games or so.

[Cantstanzya]

Most of the crashes in my group stem from someone dorking around with their tokens.

[der_blutengel]

I have only had two crashes so far.

1) I created a bunch of tokens and tried to get fancy putting them in folders and such in the tokens/host and shared directorys. When I would try to view them in FG, it crashed. I removed the directories and problems went away.

2) My screensaver came while the players were having a discussion amongst themselves and I was getting a beer. I went back in and crashed the game when I tried to respond to a question.

cheers,
--Dave

[kalmarjan]

My crashes have to do with the grid function and the mask. Usually, if IU have updated a map since a player has crashed out, and they are trying to come in, FG crashes as soon as they are able to connect.

I got so disgusted at this, I started using a third party software to manage my combats. (A big combat tracker if you will. <grin>)

I did this because FG does not save the info in the combat tracker. When you have about 15 different monsters, and 7 characters with 4 cohorts, it gets to be a pain setting up after a crash.

Sandeman

[LordTomar]

What do you mean by crash? Does players getting dropped count? or does the server have to go down too?

Last time I played on FG, the player drops seemed random sometimes. We could play a session or 2 that run flawless, but then we have had games where every few minutes someone would drop and then they would have problems starting back up (this would normaly clear up 30 mins or so in). This was all done with the same group of people.

[Sir Bayard]

I only crashed once, while I was messing around with tokens on the map when a new player joined and I shared the map with them.

[longarms]

I marked yes, but I wish the yes didn't say "all the time." Actually, my host program doesn't crash; all my players just get kicked off. This always happens when I share a map that has become what I call a "bad map."

A map shares fine and never causes player drop off until it becomes a "bad map." I am not sure what causes the transition, it may have something to do with writing on a peviously good map with the draw tool. It has nothing to do with masking, because I haven't used masks on any of the maps that became "bad maps."

In any case, once I have a bad map that bad map will always cause the players to drop off. The only solution is to delete the bad map from my folders, and (this second part might not be required I don't remember) to have all my players delete the bad map. Then, I rescan the map to create a new file and that map is fine.

I've probably had four maps become "bad maps" out of probably 16 or so sessions. So that is about one in every four games my players all get booted off when I share a map. Its frustrating because my players either have to wait for me to rescan or we have to skip that map for the session until I can rescan at another time.

I'd like to add that my system is in general totally stable and never crashes when using other software.

[richvalle]

I marked yes, but I wish the yes didn't say "all the time." Actually, my host program doesn't crash; all my players just get kicked off. This always happens when I share a map that has become what I call a "bad map."

A map shares fine and never causes player drop off until it becomes a "bad map." I am not sure what causes the transition, it may have something to do with writing on a peviously good map with the draw tool. It has nothing to do with masking, because I haven't used masks on any of the maps that became "bad maps."

In any case, once I have a bad map that bad map will always cause the players to drop off. The only solution is to delete the bad map from my folders, and (this second part might not be required I don't remember) to have all my players delete the bad map. Then, I rescan the map to create a new file and that map is fine.

I've probably had four maps become "bad maps" out of probably 16 or so sessions. So that is about one in every four games my players all get booted off when I share a map. Its frustrating because my players either have to wait for me to rescan or we have to skip that map for the session until I can rescan at another time.

I'd like to add that my system is in general totally stable and never crashes when using other software.

What size is the maps that are causing issues? Do you have mask turned on?

You could try to copy/rename the file and try it again. It has worked for us when players have had issues with maps.

[Sigurd]

Its really too narrow a poll.

The last 3 games we've had something like 4 player dropouts per game and I'd say a full crash and a half where the host system failed.

[longarms]

"What size is the maps that are causing issues? Do you have mask turned on?"

504KB, 700KB, 800KB and 750KB. Each of these maps worked flawlessly for several session until they suddenly became "bad maps."

Masks were not used with any of these maps, as I stated in my post.

[richvalle]

When I created the poll I was thinking about crashing as the host. Where you have to restart the FG host.

There had been some talk about how FG was unstable when running as the host but I wasn't seeing it. I was wondering if what I was seeing was the norm or what a few others were seeing (host crashing).

rv

[richvalle]

"What size is the maps that are causing issues? Do you have mask turned on?"

504KB, 700KB, 800KB and 750KB. Each of these maps worked flawlessly for several session until they suddenly became "bad maps."

Masks were not used with any of these maps, as I stated in my post.

Sorry... missed the masked part of your post.

Do you know roughly what the size of the images were in pix?

I recently had a few map issues that have stopped when I brought the map sizes down. Granted... the maps were stupid big to start with (over 2 megs and 2000+ pics per side) and I had them masked. Dropping them down to 1200 x 900 and everything seems ok.

rv

[Dachannien]

Seems to me that there are two major causes of instability. One, if your maps are 2048 pixels on either side (or more), a bug causes FG to flake out if you use the mask layer (possibly the drawing layer, too?). And two, if you do something so that, in essence, you are transmitting more than one piece of data to a destination machine (i.e., if you share two maps in rapid succession), weird things can happen. (That second one is a bit harder to quantify, actually, but it's still a rule of thumb I try to follow.)

[MaineCoon]

I crash whenever a player joins or re-joins and I have a shared image.

One my players was crashing trying to add a new line to a note (Notes are formattedtext in my ruleset to allow copy/paste). The note was also showing up as corrupted text for all the other players except for myself.

My players outside my LAN had a network issue (do not recall what they said the exact message was) receiving a map that was 1500x500, even though the file size was about 250k; I reduced it to 750x250 and then they did not have a problem. My wife within the LAN had no problem. Using Linksys WRT54GL, but I do not think the router is the problem, as we do a lot of varied heavy network usage (two gaming computers, bi-directional file transfers for website updates).

Sometimes, the mask just messes up for some players; the entire image becomes re-masked for them, and I have to re-unmask masked areas. I've had other problems where even Update Shared Sheet doesn't fix it; the only way to resolve the map issues on everyones system is to close the map, re-open it, and re-share it.

Had a player crash out last night when someone started drawing on a map.

I rated FG 5/5 based on what I experienced in the demo, that was rock solid. Currently I'd have to rate it 4/5... but I'm seriously considering using Maptools for my map handling at this point, and I really don't want to use a separate tool.

[richvalle]

From what I remember, the devs found a synching issue with maps bigger then 1400x1400.

On rare occations I've had a player drop when drawing. Rare in this case = twice in a year and a half of playing once a week.

Before I reduced my map size down I was having an issue where the player would crash out and then not be able to see the map when they came back in. It was as if it was masked and I couldn't remove the mask for them. Renaming the file worked till they crashed again.

Reducing the map to 1200x something and have had no issues since then.

rv

[MaineCoon]

As much as I like FG, instability and non-crash faulty mapping problems like I mentioned are proving problematic. If I put a map up, players can still scroll around on it and see areas, and even if it was masked before I shared it, some of them can see the whole map. That's a BIG problem.

My group seriously considering ditching the software in favor of something else. Some of my group are arguing that the software is not fit for the purposes it is marketted for, and have queried me about getting a refund. I purchased 8 licenses (3 full, 5 lite) for my group, and several datasets (IH, AE, DA's SRD). Not exactly pocket change. We gave the demo a good runthrough before purchasing, so the issues we're experiencing now have us disappointed.

I'm still a big fan of FG, but I am getting frustrated.

[longarms]

"From what I remember, the devs found a synching issue with maps bigger then 1400x1400."

If this is true, it needs to be identified in an errata section, or an FAQ or stickied. I don't think I need to explain why...

[Ged]

If this is true, it needs to be identified in an errata section, or an FAQ or stickied. I don't think I need to explain why...
We will start collecting the more important known bugs in the FAQ (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/faq.php). The list is empty right now, but will be populated soon.

We'll also consider ways to provide you guys with meaningful information in a timely manner in the future. A weekly update will probably be the main information channel for information/news/tidings that matter (with respect to Fantasy Grounds). Also, we will improve our availability and visibility here on the message boards. Speaking of availability, I want to use this opportunity to thank the kind community members who have often provided help to those in need in such times of the day when we in Europe are asleep (and during the rest of the day too) - thank you!

[richvalle]

As much as I like FG, instability and non-crash faulty mapping problems like I mentioned are proving problematic. If I put a map up, players can still scroll around on it and see areas, and even if it was masked before I shared it, some of them can see the whole map. That's a BIG problem.

Wow, I've never seen issues like that. Masking has always worked and in the worse case worked too well.

All I can suggest is dropping the map size down a bit and have the players remove the cashed maps on their side (there is a 'masked items' folder inside the campaign directory. Clear it out and start fresh).

Hope that helps. While I'll never say FG is perfect I don't think you should be having the frustrating problems you are having. :(

Good luck!

rv

[DM Greg]

I'm coming back to FG after a year or so from not using it. Last night was the first time I had hosted and I crashed.

The following scenario seems to cause issues:

I'm using a jpg image for a map - 651x696 (160K)

I have 4 custom tokens - jpg - each are 40x40 (2K)

After sharing the map some of the users drew and or added pointers - they were playing around but nothing out of the ordinary.

One player crashed.

When he logged back in and I re-shared the map - boom. My hosting session crashed.

We are all patched to 1.05f

All have the most current video drivers available.

My system specs:
P4 3.2
1 GB RAM
5MB Cable connection
Nvidia GeForce 6800 (256MB Ram)

Here's what's in the Event Viewer for XP:

Faulting application fantasygrounds.exe, version 0.0.0.0, faulting module msvcrt.dll, version 7.0.2600.2180, fault address 0x00037678.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.

Later,

Greg V.




When I created the poll I was thinking about crashing as the host. Where you have to restart the FG host.

There had been some talk about how FG was unstable when running as the host but I wasn't seeing it. I was wondering if what I was seeing was the norm or what a few others were seeing (host crashing).

rv

[ydragon]

FG crashes for me anytime a map becomes "bad". This can be from sharing a changed map with a player that has joined late, and had a previous version of the map from an earlier session. It can also be if a player draws on the map. It is very frustrating, and can destroy the continuity of a game session. Some of the posts here are months old. It is time a fix came out for this! Please respond Devs!

[kalmarjan]

Here is what you can try: (And it is kind of extreme)

1) Unshare the map with the players, and then open it up. Delete the mask (if any) as well as any pointers. Then make the mask as before, then share it again.

2) Kick the offending player before the crash by right clicking his portait and selecting the kick icon.
3) Before a player logs on, have them empty out their temp folder, or better yet, empty yours out before starting up again. See if that solves any problems.
The map does not become bad itself, but the temp files in that folder that transmit the fog of war info and pointer info can exist in two different states ~ on your host machine, and the client machine. I think it is because these two files do not agree is what is causing the error.

Hope that helps,

Sandeman

[Griogre]

Good advice by kalmarjan. Using smaller pixel size maps will help also simply because they are less likely to become corupt during transfer or in general. You really want files of less than 300k and less than 150k is better. Strange things also happen with maps of bigger than 2000x2000 pixels, particually if you use the mask. You may find that the person crashing is the one with the slowest connection. If you or a player who already has recieved a map make changes on the map it may crash the player still recieving the map. If you think this is the reason, then pre load the map using the spider web icon and don't actually open it for the players until you see the web on the corner telling you *everyone* has recieved the map. This will prevent this.

The devs response to this problem was to totally rewrite FG for version two. While in the long run this is good, in the short run it is bad because you won't see a fix until FG2 is released.

I suppose I should also point out a dirty little secret: that for some players, the file on their computer is too much temptation if you are playing in a map masked environment. Some will open the map in a viewer or copy it to see it unmasked. If they are doing this and you change the map they will crash and you will think it is FG when it really was the player peeking.

[heruca]

I suppose I should also point out a dirty little secret: that for some players, the file on their computer is too much temptation if you are playing in a map masked environment. Some will open the map in a viewer or copy it to see it unmasked. If they are doing this and you change the map they will crash and you will think it is FG when it really was the player peeking.

OMG, that is so low! Interesting tidbit, though.

[Jingo]

We get one or two crashes each session. I'm ok with one (see, I'm a patient kinda guy), but my players start getting grumpy at FG when it happens, complaining about unstable software, wanting to switch to something else. But since I out my the goodness of my own heart bought them their lite licences we stay with FG.

Usually I'm not sure what causes it. One crash (I didn't host this one, one of our players did from his full license) seemed to happen, when chars are updating the char sheet at the same time (on the same field?) as the GM...

[Griogre]

The player and DM updating the Character sheet crash has happened to me also. I just tell players not to touch their sheet if I am changing something, and usually I tell them to make the change. Most "random" crashes seem to involve the transfer of maps, particulary large ones with masks, or tokens.

You might also remind you players that downloading large files while playing FG will likely cause problems. Many homes have more than one computer connected to the Internet, it may be that even though the player isn't doing anything his daughter in the next room is using bit torrent, pulling down mp3s or something. I was in a game the other day and the DM was trying to send us maps and it was taking forever or failing. He goes into the next room, notices his wife's laptop is on after she had gone to bed so he shuts it down and suddenly the transfers worked fine. :p

[ldyparadox99]

I've crashed about 2x since I started using FG back in October and it stemmed from my accidently hitting the friggin windows key on the keyboard which FG strongly objects to.

Now my players are a different story. I crash one or more of them on a regular basis with maps and tokens.

[Dupre]

We are aware how serious this issue is for some game groups. Most of the image management was rewritten in the upcoming 2.0 version and in our internal tests it is very stable. A new beta version was distributed to beta testers earlier this week and we are close to releasing the patch.

[richvalle]

Yes, this is what I see as well. My side is pretty stable, the players not so much. But they are able to log back in with no issues. It doesn't even really slow the game down at this point since we use voice software for comms.

rv

[Dachannien]

Woot! You mean you're close to releasing all of FG2, or you're close to releasing a patch for FG 1.05g?

[Malovech]

We are aware how serious this issue is for some game groups. Most of the image management was rewritten in the upcoming 2.0 version and in our internal tests it is very stable. A new beta version was distributed to beta testers earlier this week and we are close to releasing the patch.

Thanks Dupre, that's the tiny morsel I needed!