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Acererak
August 20th, 2019, 15:48
Hi,

First thank you for this alpha version!

I have starting playing with it since 2 days and encountered some issues but nearly all of them have been reported already in other posts and added to issues list.

Additional issues I encountered so far on my environment are those small ones:


Multiple dices launch (whatever dice type) are always reported as 1 dice launch in chat window, even if finally all dices are taking into account for calculation. For example Launching 1d6 is reported as “d6”, and launching 2d6 3d6 or more are all reported as “1d6”. I guess this one is already tracked but may be linked with second one.



When adding weapons (5E ruleset) with multiple damage dice to a PC action page using drag and drop from item card, only 1 dice is recorded to damages property. This can be fixed manually in PC sheet weapon properties. For example adding a Greatsword setup for 1d6 damage instead of 2d6.
28556



On Item card (still 5E ruleset) when Damage or Properties fields gain focus, from mouse or Tabulation key scroll automatically come back to top of card, and focus being on right field, I can’t see what I write. Each time I go to this field scrolling hide it. Workaround is of course to enlarge card to see all fields at same time and modification become possible. This is what make me think field focus is still the right one.



I also have run into troubles to make map sync works between GM and client session, but I’m unfortunately unable to explain yet what is exactly happening. I will continue to play with it and let you know.
I hope explanations are clear enough.

Acererak
August 20th, 2019, 16:13
I also have a question regarding tokens and modules.

I used to create my additional tokens packs as modules to be able to load them or not having in mind performances would be better if not hundreds of them have to be loaded each time.
In this new version, I cannot see these token modules as libraries with possibility to choose them. Even unloaded adventures modules’ token are always available as are all assets I guess.
Is it this way this version will work, and then do we have to consider choosing which module to push to module folder?

Moon Wizard
August 21st, 2019, 00:37
Thanks for the reports.

Multiple Dice in Chat Window
I've added the additional information you provided to our notes on the existing issue.

Weapon Dice on Item Drop
Added as task FGU-408.

Scrolling and Field Focus
Added as task FGU-409.

Token Assets
All graphics files in tokens subfolder of FG data folder (and any tokens in a tokens/ subfolder within a module) will be shown in the Assets window. While this may change slightly as we progress through development, we want the general idea to remain of users being able to access all their graphic content without having to load/unload packages.

Regards,
JPG

Acererak
August 21st, 2019, 15:55
Thank you for your answers !
I will continue to track every strange behavior as much as I can and try to not duplicate already existing item.

I face a new issue while working on LOS walls doors and terrains objects creation into a map.

Sometimes objects I just created (a door, a wall section or any other linked points) just disappears. I'm unfortunately not able to define the precise trigger to this issue :-(, but it seems to happen more frequently (or always ?) when I use mouse center button to navigate or mouse wheel to zoom in/out after I finish a section creation.
It's as if the last recorded points were lost if and when I navigate or zoom through the map before starting creating new ones.

ddavison
August 21st, 2019, 15:58
Hello Acererak,

Do you have the same issue when you use the arrow keys on your keyboard to pan the window around?

Acererak
August 21st, 2019, 16:10
Hi,

I'm not sure yet but to navigate it seems arrows key usage do not (or less?) raise this issue. It's not blocking for me, so I can continue working on this map. If I can figure out later more precisely what's the exact trigger I'll of course give you additional information.

Acererak
August 23rd, 2019, 17:53
Hi,

I went into a strange behavior during map wall creation, but cannot explain what happened :(.
In one part, and only that one of the map token LOS seems to go through the wall. See red cross location on below picture.

28614

You can find here (https://1drv.ms/u/s!Alu2qwi0FNXokcVitPGHwtoAmsttrA?e=d7cg4R) modified db module if it can help you. It's sunless citadel ground player map.
I did not try to delete and create again to save issue reproduction in case it can help you.

If you check the map let me know if it's interresting for you I post final result to "FGU Sharing LOS Definitions for Maps - Crowd Project" thread, I mean if quality is good enough to share?

Regarding improvement ideas if I may, during my tests on maps I missed a nice to have about terrain lines : having a visual easy way to know which way LOS goes through it. I can do that using a token and moving it, but when a line for a window for example is on the map I can't figure out easily if it's in the right way.

pindercarl
August 23rd, 2019, 18:11
There is some complex line splitting that goes on behind the scenes when walls overlap, which may be at issue here. I don't know how well walls intersecting doors/terrain has been tested. I will take a look and see if there is anything obvious going wrong. If you delete the door in the room with the error, does it fix the problem?

Terrain and door types are assumed to be closed polygons. They are, in fact, forced to be closed if you create them using the line tool. Are you creating single lines to define a window?

Kelrugem
August 24th, 2019, 03:03
Hi,

I went into a strange behavior during map wall creation, but cannot explain what happened :(.
In one part, and only that one of the map token LOS seems to go through the wall. See red cross location on below picture.

28614

You can find here (https://1drv.ms/u/s!Alu2qwi0FNXokcVitPGHwtoAmsttrA?e=d7cg4R) modified db module if it can help you. It's sunless citadel ground player map.
I did not try to delete and create again to save issue reproduction in case it can help you.

If you check the map let me know if it's interresting for you I post final result to "FGU Sharing LOS Definitions for Maps - Crowd Project" thread, I mean if quality is good enough to share?

Regarding improvement ideas if I may, during my tests on maps I missed a nice to have about terrain lines : having a visual easy way to know which way LOS goes through it. I can do that using a token and moving it, but when a line for a window for example is on the map I can't figure out easily if it's in the right way.

I had similar issues with overlapping walls, I described that a bit in the LoS stickied thread and had the method as in my attached image:

28618

When you already want to avoid that then the trick to avoid the glitch is to align the walls, avoid overlaps. You see there that the four nodes of the rectangle are aligned with four nodes in the wall using the magnetic-snap :) Then it works, but overlaps may not be an issue later on :)

Acererak
August 24th, 2019, 12:40
It was not linked to the door, it's the same with or without it. But it came from overlapping walls.
As soon as I removed one of the two overlaped walls on room right wal, all was ok again. With one overlap it was working, with two I had the issue.

28626
28627

Regarding terrains it's then a misunderstanding on my side on how to use them.Forget my remark. I thought it was possible to use a line and you have LOS on one side and not at the opposite.
I don't quite understand differences with doors then ?

Kelrugem
August 24th, 2019, 12:47
ah, I see, I had similar things at least for doors. What happens when you have the door overlap the wall but the walls are not overlapping? (and the token should maybe be then moved next to or in front of the door to produce a glitch)

Acererak
August 24th, 2019, 13:09
ah, I see, I had similar things at least for doors. What happens when you have the door overlap the wall but the walls are not overlapping? (and the token should maybe be then moved next to or in front of the door to produce a glitch)

In this case if Walls are fine it's ok even if door overlap.
I guess it's more complex to reproduce than Simple overlap. Certainly a combination of different factors because the room next to this one was fine even if Walls were also overlaping.

pindercarl
August 24th, 2019, 14:46
It was not linked to the door, it's the same with or without it. But it came from overlapping walls.
As soon as I removed one of the two overlaped walls on room right wal, all was ok again. With one overlap it was working, with two I had the issue.

28626
28627

Regarding terrains it's then a misunderstanding on my side on how to use them.Forget my remark. I thought it was possible to use a line and you have LOS on one side and not at the opposite.
I don't quite understand differences with doors then ?

Thanks. That is helpful. I hadn't noticed the overlapping walls.

Guoccamole
August 24th, 2019, 17:07
Another dice launch issue. When I grabbed four D12, I launched them into the chat window, but only three rolled. I believe the fourth one release off-screen as I released fast and hard close to the edge of the window. I’d suggest launching ALL the dice as long as the mouse cursor remains in the chat window. Otherwise, dice may be MIA and players/DM may not notice.

I spoke too soon... I just noticed the game DID pay attention to all four dice (it just only showed three dice). So it’s just an aesthetic bug. Not all four dice show rolling, but the chat picks up all four dice for the result.

LOW PRIORITY

Guoccamole
August 24th, 2019, 20:57
I just noticed something about my MIA dice (minor) issue. When you "miss" the dice table, and the dice go 'flying', they take a loooooong time to finish rolling. :-) So while the issue is cosmetic, it also has a downside in terms of delay of the free/flying dice settling down to their final result(s). :-)

Moon Wizard
August 25th, 2019, 02:57
This was previously noted as FGU-43. Basically, any dice released outside the chat box fall off the table, and results are read after the die roller times out. It's been around a while, but it's not a high priority. Basically, we need to implement a way to "crowd" the dice into the box in the case where they are outside the box at the beginning of the roll.

Regards,
JPG

Acererak
September 28th, 2019, 14:40
Hi,

I start testing player side to see if feasable to test an Alpha game :o and found a strange LOS behavior :

Creation mode :
29174

GM View ok
29175

Player's view show a strange hidden area right bottom of token
29176

Moon Wizard
September 29th, 2019, 07:45
I've filed as FGU-498 for Carl to review.

Thanks,
JPG

Acererak
October 10th, 2019, 22:31
Hi,

He re is a new bunch of remarks after having work quite some time on map creation.

Performances issues :
I continue to encounter real performances issues. I can't see any improvement since FG classic.
To give you an idea my config is :
Intel(R) Core(TM) i3 CPU 530 @ 2.93GHz, 2933 MHz, 2 cœur(s), 4 processeur(s) logique(s)
6Go ram
Windows x64 version 1903
(But also tested on i7 32Go without significative improvement)
To attain selection screen on launch: 8 sec
Once Host campaign selected (cloud) : 1min56 to attain user interface
In map wall creation mode:
-1sec delay to select a point
-6sec between suppression key press and deletion of selected point
-Zoom using mouse wheel has a 5 sec delay reaction
It was better at begining of the map creation, near the end with a lot of objects it was nearly unmanageable at all :-(


Miscelaneous remarks :
When I select Secret door point, they highlight red while expecting blue. It works well but confusing. I'm not sure to have selected right one.

When creating squares, at least on doors and secret doors, 5 points are created instead of 4. When I move this points to align a door to a wall for example, there is one additional useless point to handle each time.

When 2 terrain lines (green) create an intersection, removing middle point does not delete related lines as it does with wall lines, only the point itself is removed. May be as designed ?

There is one secret door I can't open or close in my map, I can't select it at all but I did not find which was the exact trigger of this issue. Maybe you can reproduce using my Sunless Citadel Fortress map posted in LOS dedicated thread. This is the bottom right secret door in bottom right corner round room.

Idea:
Would it be possible to have a setup to choose if we want to keep discovered terrain visible (except tokens) as it works for now or if LOS fow would always return to complete dark even if previously discovered?
I previously played this way on some dungeons adventures for players to have to manage their maps. This way they had to track their way as i was hidden again path behind them using FOW.
I agree this is situational, but if this can be easily implemented it would be a real nice to have feature (at least for me �� )

Moon Wizard
October 17th, 2019, 01:38
Acecerak,

Thanks for your reports. Questions and comments below:

Regarding strange LOS behavior reported a few posts ago
* Can you try with the latest version and let us know if you still see that? We've put in many fixes for LOS over the last couple of weeks, and we can't seem to recreate.

Regarding performance in launcher
* What do you mean when you say "attain selection screen on launch"? Are you talking about from first launch until you see launch screen? Are you talking about after you click Host or Join buttons? If Host button, how many campaigns do you have created?

Regarding performance when editing maps
* It should be slightly better with the current version, though we continue to look at more improvements.
* A copy of your campaign as well as an idea of what you're doing will help us focus efforts. (videos or pictures of you in action when performance degrades).

Secret door selected point color
* Filed as FGU-504

5 points instead of 4 on squares
* Can you walk me through exact steps you follow? Are you using square or line tool when making these squares? If line tool, how are you ending wall draw (double-click or Enter)? Do you have snap mode enabled?

Removing Points
* For wall and secret blocker types: When removing selected points from a blocker, you can choose to either Delete (which breaks the line segment) or Remove (which preserves the segment, but only removes the point). This is why there are two separate deletion type buttons in the LOS toolbar. These can also be activated by the Delete and Backspace keys, respectively.
* For terrain and door blocker types, these blockers segments must be closed polygons to support the ability to see into, but not out of the shape. So, both deletion and remove are identical (i.e. preserve segment).

Secret Door Button
* The most recent update should widen the ability to see the secret blocker open/close button for lines (vs. polygons).
* The next update will create a bounding box for lines that is even easier to click.

Terrain LOS Idea
* I'm not sure I'm following. But, are you basically asking for a per-map option to disabled the LOS history, and only allow tokens to see what is currently in LOS?

Thanks,
JPG

Acererak
October 17th, 2019, 12:25
Hi,



Regarding strange LOS behavior reported a few posts ago
* Can you try with the latest version and let us know if you still see that? We've put in many fixes for LOS over the last couple of weeks, and we can't seem to recreate.

Ok I'll tell you if it happens again.



Regarding performance in launcher
* What do you mean when you say "attain selection screen on launch"? Are you talking about from first launch until you see launch screen? Are you talking about after you click Host or Join buttons? If Host button, how many campaigns do you have created?

Yes attain selection screen is time from doubleclick on software icon to Host/Join page appearence
Once host campaign button selected and related campaign selected, time from clicking start to user interface is the nearly 2 min.



Regarding performance when editing maps
* It should be slightly better with the current version, though we continue to look at more improvements.
* A copy of your campaign as well as an idea of what you're doing will help us focus efforts. (videos or pictures of you in action when performance degrades).

i'll try again and let you know. But since last update this morning I can't open settings or update anymore. I may need to re install before beeing able to test.
In my Campaign I only have one library loaded and one map modified. You can find it here : https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29228&d=1569963307



Removing Points
* For wall and secret blocker types: When removing selected points from a blocker, you can choose to either Delete (which breaks the line segment) or Remove (which preserves the segment, but only removes the point). This is why there are two separate deletion type buttons in the LOS toolbar. These can also be activated by the Delete and Backspace keys, respectively.
* For terrain and door blocker types, these blockers segments must be closed polygons to support the ability to see into, but not out of the shape. So, both deletion and remove are identical (i.e. preserve segment).

I did not notice that. Thank you I will try



Secret Door Button
* The most recent update should widen the ability to see the secret blocker open/close button for lines (vs. polygons).
* The next update will create a bounding box for lines that is even easier to click.

Thanks' I will test it



Terrain LOS Idea
* I'm not sure I'm following. But, are you basically asking for a per-map option to disabled the LOS history, and only allow tokens to see what is currently in LOS?

You got it ;-) Disable LOS history.
I used to do this (by manually placing again FOW) in some complex mazes to force players doing some mapping job as in good old paper days when we needed to erase white board to draw next room :-)
Since I wrote this idea I thought a little bit and discovered it's maybe not so simple even to specify exactly rules to follow. Disable history should be simple but each player can see only his own LOS ? May be too restrictive. We cannot say neither show only current room(s) as I guess there are no room objects as there is door objects. So we would like to have a full view for every player of all combined players LOS to simulate they talk to their teammate to tell them "yes there is a goblin behin this table, I can see him even if you can't !" :-).

For 5 points squares I will prepare an example when I will be able to take some time.

At last thanks' again for your work ! :-)
I'm really looking forward to use it in real games.

Moon Wizard
October 18th, 2019, 06:24
Performance in General
I'm currently running on a desktop machine that is one year old, and I have every single DLC product installed (over 1300); and I see a couple seconds at launcher, and about 20-60 seconds to load campaign (depending on ruleset and modules) However, most of my campaigns only have 3-4 modules loaded.

It would be great to get a full copy of your campaign directory (for the one that takes 2 minutes), including every single file in the campaign folder. You probably will need to use DropBox or Google Drive to share. If we can't recreate from your single campaigns folder, then we can try looking at your entire FG data folder.

Also, a couple more questions:
* Are you running on a laptop or a desktop?
* If running on a laptop, what kind of disk drive do you have (SSD or not)? Does your machine have a dedicated memory card, or motherboard memory card? (If not sure, probably motherboard.)

Performance in Launcher
Here's a rough order of operations for the launcher, so we can see if we can figure out where yours is slowing down:
* Load launcher settings from registry
* Initialize vault access (index all purchased products and their files)
* Build list of rulesets available on your system (rulesets folder and product vault)
* Build list of extensions available on your system (extensions folder and product vault)
* Build list of local and cached campaigns (campaigns and cache folders)
* Initialize UI
* Get network lobby status
* Get network local IP details
* Start update check

So this leads to the following questions:
* Are you pointing FGU at the same data folder as FGC, or did you leave it at default data directory in the Settings?
* Have you added any community rulesets, extensions or modules to the FGU data folder? If so, which ones?
* How many campaign folders are in the FGU data folder under campaigns subfolder?
* How many cached campaign folders are in the FGU data folder under cache subfolder?
* How many network cards are on the machine? Are you running any VPNs?*

Performance After Starting Campaign
Here's a rough order of operations for hosting a campaign:
* Initialize networking
* Load user settings from registry
* Initialize Lua engine
* Load ruleset
* Load extensions
* Prepare list of all available user assets (images, portraits, tokens, plus any in vault)
* Load campaign portraits
* Load campaign database
* Load characters from other campaigns (local or cached) for potential import
* Prepare server-side cache
* Initialize UI background
* Initialize Lua packages
* Load modules
* Load hot keys and window history
* Initialize dice and fonts
* Build portrait sets
* Initialize 3D dice
* Initialize UI

This leads to additional questions (the first 3 can be answered by looking at campaign folder data, if you provide):
* What ruleset are you using?
* Which extensions are you using?
* Which modules do you have loaded?
* How many files are in images, portraits and tokens directories? How big are the files?

Regards,
JPG

Acererak
October 19th, 2019, 10:42
Hi,

A new suggestion I forgot to talk about would be to have choice to choose which purchased modules we want to install/kepp up to date among all purchased ones.
If you don't have a good connection as unfortunately is my case, it's a pitty to have to download each update of campaigns bought but closed for months.

Also I'm fond of new way to handle assets with type filters and other improvements, but for same reason it's not really interresting for me to filter among huge amont of assets when some of them belong to old modules not in use anymore in my actual campaigns.

For example I had a crash on last update and cannot launch the application annymore.
Before to open a ticket I tried to update again, start from a fresh data folder and even try to install again from scratch but each time (because of my poor connection) it's very long minutes :-(
I could have done same test selecting only few module I purchased to speed up test process ;-)

ddavison
October 19th, 2019, 14:57
Hi,

A new suggestion I forgot to talk about would be to have choice to choose which purchased modules we want to install/kepp up to date among all purchased ones.
If you don't have a good connection as unfortunately is my case, it's a pitty to have to download each update of campaigns bought but closed for months.

Also I'm fond of new way to handle assets with type filters and other improvements, but for same reason it's not really interresting for me to filter among huge amont of assets when some of them belong to old modules not in use anymore in my actual campaigns.

For example I had a crash on last update and cannot launch the application annymore.
Before to open a ticket I tried to update again, start from a fresh data folder and even try to install again from scratch but each time (because of my poor connection) it's very long minutes :-(
I could have done same test selecting only few module I purchased to speed up test process ;-)

Hello Acererak,

There was an error on our patch system last night that might be the cause of the issue you are seeing with being unable to launch. If you are not able to launch the application anymore, please use this link to download a fresh installer and then re-run an Update. We apologize for the inconvenience.

JPG Edit: Please contact [email protected] for new installer link, if needed.

Bidmaron
October 19th, 2019, 17:42
But his recommendation to be able to flag material as don’t update remains very important as those who are lucky enough to own large libraries can agree I think. If something has been flagged for don’t update, perhaps in campaign when you view those they are either in yellow or, even better, filtered out of library.
I suppose this really doesn’t have anything to do with FGU per se and should go on wishlist.

Moon Wizard
October 19th, 2019, 20:50
Yeah, we’ve had a handful of requests over the last 10 years for selective update. The problem is that it becomes pretty complicated on our patch system and updater application UI to manage all that. We even tried a simple version many years ago, and ended up running into problems because some products depend on other products, which causes errors and poor user experience. I’m not saying it isn’t an interesting idea, but it’s a lot of work for a small pool of users. We’re constantly having to weigh priorities based on new user experience, existing user experience, UI complexity, amount of work to implement, and number of users affected.

Regards,
JPG

deer_buster
October 20th, 2019, 01:34
Yeah, we’ve had a handful of requests over the last 10 years for selective update. The problem is that it becomes pretty complicated on our patch system and updater application UI to manage all that. We even tried a simple version many years ago, and ended up running into problems because some products depend on other products, which causes errors and poor user experience. I’m not saying it isn’t an interesting idea, but it’s a lot of work for a small pool of users. We’re constantly having to weigh priorities based on new user experience, existing user experience, UI complexity, amount of work to implement, and number of users affected.

Regards,
JPG

Why not, for instance, give us the ability in the store to exclude updates (not the default) on a per item basis. Would make things MUCH easier. I know Samarex took like over an hour to update from a fresh install, for instance.

Bidmaron
October 20th, 2019, 02:40
That would not be the place to do it. It would be much easier to program doing it on the client side, module listing probably easiest and that would save in a new data file on client as to what was to be updated.
You need to read MW’s post again. He goes into great detail about why it is hard (and the dependency issue is the most complex part), and your suggestion doesn’t do anything to make it easier (unless I am not seeing something).

Guoccamole
October 20th, 2019, 04:44
It was not linked to the door, it's the same with or without it. But it came from overlapping walls.
As soon as I removed one of the two overlaped walls on room right wal, all was ok again. With one overlap it was working, with two I had the issue.

28626
28627

Regarding terrains it's then a misunderstanding on my side on how to use them.Forget my remark. I thought it was possible to use a line and you have LOS on one side and not at the opposite.
I don't quite understand differences with doors then ?

FWIW, I also believe the line approach to terrain is more intuitive (i.e., using line tool) and makes a lot of sense, and I had the same understanding. Also, the area approach is inconsistent with the line tool and leads to (IMO) unnecessary complications. I have suggested using line approach by default, and area (polygons) for special circumstances (where area makes sense).

Acererak
October 21st, 2019, 08:25
Hello Acererak,

There was an error on our patch system last night that might be the cause of the issue you are seeing with being unable to launch. If you are not able to launch the application anymore, please use this link to download a fresh installer and then re-run an Update. We apologize for the inconvenience.

JPG Edit: Please contact [email protected] for new installer link, if needed.

Hi,

All works fine after reinstalling from fresh installer received from support.

Thank you

Acererak
October 21st, 2019, 08:55
Acecerak,

5 points instead of 4 on squares
* Can you walk me through exact steps you follow? Are you using square or line tool when making these squares? If line tool, how are you ending wall draw (double-click or Enter)? Do you have snap mode enabled?

JPG

Hi,

I select door square tool and draw a simple square and if I check in genereated file we can see (if I understand correctly this file :) ) that first and last points are the same.
29505 29506

Maybe it's the way you choosed to store points and definitivelly normal. The related issue I have is not a blocking but only annoying one.
When creating a door I use process I guess I found in some Doug's video by creating larger door then reducing it to wall size to obtain perfect aligment.
So step 1 I create larger door than wall size
29507

Then I reduce door's points to attach them to wall's one. And doing this first and then last door's point need to be aligned. So it's 2 points to moves instead of one.
29509

It's not a big deal but once having done it 25 times, its a little bit annoying :o
May be I don't use best process to create my doors and another one is more efficient ?

Kelrugem
October 21st, 2019, 08:59
Hi,

I select door square tool and draw a simple square and if I check in genereated file we can see (if I understand correctly this file :) ) that first and last points are the same.
29505 29506

Maybe it's the way you choosed to store points and definitivelly normal. The related issue I have is not a blocking but only annoying one.
When creating a door I use process I guess I found in some Doug's video by creating larger door then reducing it to wall size to obtain perfect aligment.
So step 1 I create larger door than wall size
29507

Then I reduce door's points to attach them to wall's one. And doing this first and then last door's point need to be aligned. So it's 2 points to moves instead of one.
29509

It's not a big deal but once having done it 25 times, its a little bit annoying :o
May be I don't use best process to create my doors and another one is more efficient ?

Instead of clicking on the nodes you can also select nodes by using the selection-square :) Doing that you select the whole pile of nodes in the selection-square and not just the node on top of the pile :) Then you can move all at once (that's at least how I am doing that)

Acererak
October 21st, 2019, 09:16
Instead of clicking on the nodes you can also select nodes by using the selection-square :) Doing that you select the whole pile of nodes in the selection-square and not just the node on top of the pile :) Then you can move all at once (that's at least how I am doing that)

I did not think trying that !
It works well, not so intuitive but at least I'll save I guess quite some time :)

Thank you

Acererak
October 21st, 2019, 10:01
Performance in General
I'm currently running on a desktop machine that is one year old, and I have every single DLC product installed (over 1300); and I see a couple seconds at launcher, and about 20-60 seconds to load campaign (depending on ruleset and modules) However, most of my campaigns only have 3-4 modules loaded.

It would be great to get a full copy of your campaign directory (for the one that takes 2 minutes), including every single file in the campaign folder. You probably will need to use DropBox or Google Drive to share. If we can't recreate from your single campaigns folder, then we can try looking at your entire FG data folder.

Also, a couple more questions:
* Are you running on a laptop or a desktop?
* If running on a laptop, what kind of disk drive do you have (SSD or not)? Does your machine have a dedicated memory card, or motherboard memory card? (If not sure, probably motherboard.)

JPG

Hi,

I tested again after my last reinstall.
This time on a laptop i7, 32Go Ram, FGU installed on SSD drive and datas on classical one. Graphical cards are AMD FirePro W5170m and Intel HD 530.
I only created a new campaign, without even loading any module, and campaign loading time is more or less 75 sec.

When loading one module with my current map creation campaign it increase to 80sec.
But if it's assumed that 60 sec is normal time, it seemed a little long to me but if in game is smooth, it will not be an issue for me :).
Regarding map creation I'll start test again and let you know. On my actual map deleting a point still has a 2 sec latency.

If you need campaign folder is there a mail I can send you or a OneDrive Account I can share one of mine ?
It's really an empty campaign with only mapping work and Sunless Citadel loaded module.

Acererak
October 21st, 2019, 17:39
Hi,

I just finished my second map creation (available in this post (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?50591-FGU-Sharing-LOS-Definitions-for-Maps-Crowd-Project&p=457612&viewfull=1#post457612)).

Regarding performances all was fine at begining, but at the end as more and more points were present on the map it became nearly impossible to use :(, once again more than 3 to 4 sec between user action (click, selection etc..) and result.
It's really dependant from map complexity but performance decrease quickly as I add points.

I did not test yet using those maps, I'm only in creation mode adding LOS objects.
I have no idea if I can improve something regarding my computer setup ?

Acererak
October 21st, 2019, 17:54
Hi,

I found a small issue while doing my first player side tests.
If I open a door on player side in my environment it's not refreshed to my DM side. Opening door on DM works fine player side is refreshed.

On my playser session I open a door
29519

On my DM session door stays closed unless I open it on this session too.
29520

Moon Wizard
October 22nd, 2019, 00:23
deer_buster,
As LordEntrails highlighted from my original message, it's the additional UI as well as the fact that dependency management is a nightmare (and a completely new set of functionality). We're aware that updating is very slow on the alpha right now; and we're limiting the number of products in the FGU patch system until we address. Plus, Ryan made a recent change that caused a full re-synch recently, which exacerbated the issue.

Guoccamole,
You can't use line segments for terrain; because by definition, terrain is an area that you can see into, but not out of. (just like doors). If it's not a shape, how do you define where visibility into an area should end?

Acererak,
5 Points
The 5 points is an internal mechanism, so that we can enforce polygons when needed, but use the same data structures for lines and polygons. It's just an implementation detail.

LOS performance
Large number of LOS points can bog down performance quite a bit; and we're looking at ways to address. I'll point Carl at your latest map post as an example where performance degrades dramatically. Are you zoomed in or out when performance degrades; or does it not matter? We were already looking at fading out LOS points as you zoom out.

Player door toggling
Filed as issue FGU-526

Thanks,
JPG

Kelrugem
October 22nd, 2019, 00:32
Guoccamole,
You can't use line segments for terrain; because by definition, terrain is an area that you can see into, but not out of. (just like doors). If it's not a shape, how do you define where visibility into an area should end?


I may (?) be able to help here: First I also didn't understand what Guoccamole meant with that, but playing a bit with the terrain feature I may know what he means: When you put up terrain just as a line, i.e. just creating two nodes for the terrain such that it can not be really closed (visually, not sure how the code handles this in the background) then this terrain "line" acts like a semi-permeable wall when "closed" by the "terrain-button", so you can not look through it from one side but from the other side it is possible. That's a funny thing to have but it's probably not intended, I guess (visually, the code is surely the same for that, but not sure what happens there), and that might be the reason why Guoccamole misunderstood the terrain feature and found it unintuitive on first sight :)

(Correct me, Guoccamole, if I am wrong :) You wrote a lot about that and I am not sure if I understood you :) )

Guoccamole
October 22nd, 2019, 01:07
Guoccamole,
You can't use line segments for terrain; because by definition, terrain is an area that you can see into, but not out of. (just like doors). If it's not a shape, how do you define where visibility into an area should end?


As I explain here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?51416-Map-suggestions-and-bugs&p=457547&viewfull=1#post457547), area based “Terrain” is flawed. Area terrain gets in the way of itself as demonstrated by Doug Davison’s video. Line-based terrain could solve 80+% terrain issues.

@Kelrugem: Yes, the behavior of the “area” lines provides the inspiration for a line-based terrain.

With lines for terrain and as I mention in my post, there are four main visibility modes the line (window) can provide across its boundary:

visible | visible
invisible | visible
visible | invisible
invisible | invisible

In area terrain, the area is used as the trigger. In line-based terrain, simply use a 5’ area on each side of the line as a potential trigger. One or both sides can be triggers. For instance, a raised area has a trigger to view the lower area. The lower area would have no trigger to see terrain above... but could see any figures (tokens) which could see them, e.g., within 5’ of the ledge/cliff/patio (or whatever the raised platform).

Each line could be configured with its trigger distance, default: 5 feet. And I have already suggested some other basic triggers which could be added to the configurations. I even mentioned an advanced (area) based triggers could be used for a group of line segments which define a closed polygon (full circle to area based triggers). But area based triggers in this case would be special purpose, not trying to solve common cases where they don’t fit.

If this idea does not make sense, I could draw a few sketches to show the idea. The idea is to trigger normal visibility into an area (looking down or across normally), or token visibility looking up and seeing observers, but NOT chopping areas up into arbitrary subsections which try (and fail) to serve two masters... triggers for visibility, and areas of visibility. Instead, let walls define edges of the area, and windows define visibility across boundaries between areas.

That’s line-based visibility, and it could work for the majority of boundaries (80/20) such as cliffs, ledges, windows, gates, etc.. And the terrain configuration panel could add additional features as time goes on.

More later if people have questions. Let me know if it would help to show a sketch. TY

Guoccamole
October 22nd, 2019, 01:24
Think of visibility being controlled by windows at boundaries, rather than the areas themselves. Then configure the windows for what you want visible to whom (e.g., like a wall, passage, window, one-way mirror, or frosted window (short range visibility) etc.). The window controls the visibility across a boundary between two areas to/from the same areas. The window configuration controls what’s seen by the two sides of the window.

Place these ‘windows’ with lines (like walls), and configure the behavior of the wall/windows using visibility settings: one set of settings for one direction through the window, and one set of settings for the other direction through the window (using terrain visibility settings). In fact, these wall/window settings could be part of every wall, and that wall could suddenly become a window just by toggling wall/window into window (visibility) behavior. Ditto for doors, to give doors visibility features for jails, peepholes, etc..

The key is that visibility can be controlled at boundaries to block/permit/modify vision, in analogous way to how walls are used to block vision and movement.

I don’t have any way to draw or sketch at the moment, but I shall try to sketch some examples tomorrow AM.

Moon Wizard
October 22nd, 2019, 02:30
I answered in your other thread.

Regards,
JPG

Acererak
October 23rd, 2019, 08:39
LOS performance
Large number of LOS points can bog down performance quite a bit; and we're looking at ways to address. I'll point Carl at your latest map post as an example where performance degrades dramatically. Are you zoomed in or out when performance degrades; or does it not matter? We were already looking at fading out LOS points as you zoom out.



Hi,

Once zoomed in and less visible points performances seems to be a little bit better, so I guess actual visible points are involved in performance result, not only total map points.
I hope this can help.

Acererak
October 23rd, 2019, 12:14
Hi,

I found some icons apears strangely on some windows where non expected.
It happens randomly (I know it's not but can't find out what triggers it :) ). I also checked into known issues and guess the issue is not present.yet

29541 29542

Zacchaeus
October 23rd, 2019, 13:12
I saw this too yesterday but couldn't replicate it. I haven't seen it today and still can't replicate it.

Moon Wizard
October 23rd, 2019, 22:54
Acererak,
Thanks for the info on the points; I'm working on testing a new build that will help in the LOS editing performance.

Acererak/Zacchaeus,
The extra white icons are from the image data control, but not sure why they're appearing in other windows. It's filed as FGU-525.

Regards,
JPG

Acererak
October 24th, 2019, 12:51
Hi,

I encountered a new issue this morning while working on map's LOS.
To repro (on my environment) :

Launch application
Edit LOS into one given map A
Close map A and open map B
Create a LOS object on map B like a wall square


In this scenario once I created a wall square it disapeared instently from this map B as soon as I "mouse button up".
I discovered that in xml file this square has still been stored but in map A part of the file.

During object creation I can see it on actual map
29550

When I finish it desapears
29551

If I check previous edited map, I can find my square object, well stored but at wrong place in xml file
29552

It's Like if some variable keep previous map as the one with focus and being modified

Moon Wizard
October 25th, 2019, 18:51
Acererak,

Thanks for the report. I'm having trouble recreating the issue on my machine.

* Does it happen every time with that campaign? If so, can I get campaign and specific maps (A/B) that you used, and exact steps you followed once opening campaign.
* If it doesn't happen every time, did it happen more than once? Or just that one time?
* Any other information you can think of to help us recreate?

Thanks,
JPG

Acererak
November 2nd, 2019, 08:49
Acererak,

Thanks for the report. I'm having trouble recreating the issue on my machine.

* Does it happen every time with that campaign? If so, can I get campaign and specific maps (A/B) that you used, and exact steps you followed once opening campaign.
* If it doesn't happen every time, did it happen more than once? Or just that one time?
* Any other information you can think of to help us recreate?

Thanks,
JPG

Hi,

I tried again quickly this morning to reproduce without success. As there has been several update since I discovered this issue may be it's solved.

I saw a post (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?50591-FGU-Sharing-LOS-Definitions-for-Maps-Crowd-Project&p=459330&viewfull=1#post459330) may be related to what I encountered, I don't know if you had more clues with this one.

I'll let you know if this happen again, but not an issue for me anymore.

Acererak
March 17th, 2020, 19:07
Hi there,

It's been a long time since I was able to start again trying to work on LOS crowd project.
I'm starting again now and face some strange behavior. But as I really had no usage for a long I'm not sure bad usage versus real issues :-(

When I'm deleting points I don't understand how it behaves:
I create 2 square walls intersecting each other, then a line on one wall just to create a new point and be able to remove one wall section.

32206

Instead, a new wall is created toward another point from the square.

32208

It does not always happen but I can't figure out what is the exact trigger.
Here is xml file before point removing if this can help you in case of a real issue.

32209

Else, where can I find details or explanation on using line crossing. I'm doing as I used to on alpha tests beginingbut maybe best practices and way to use changed ?

Zacchaeus
March 17th, 2020, 19:39
Draw your first line and then your second. Go to edit mode. Select the point where they intersect and press delete or click on delete points.

pindercarl
March 17th, 2020, 19:45
Hi there,

It's been a long time since I was able to start again trying to work on LOS crowd project.
I'm starting again now and face some strange behavior. But as I really had no usage for a long I'm not sure bad usage versus real issues :-(

When I'm deleting points I don't understand how it behaves:
I create 2 square walls intersecting each other, then a line on one wall just to create a new point and be able to remove one wall section.

32206

Instead, a new wall is created toward another point from the square.

32208

It does not always happen but I can't figure out what is the exact trigger.
Here is xml file before point removing if this can help you in case of a real issue.

32209

Else, where can I find details or explanation on using line crossing. I'm doing as I used to on alpha tests beginingbut maybe best practices and way to use changed ?

This looks like a bug. Based on the screenshots, you 1) created a rectangle, 2) split the rectangle with a line, and then 3) deleted the newly created point on the rectangle. When the rectangle is created, it is marked as a closed polygon, i.e the first and last point are shared. When you delete the new point, the closed polygon setting should be removed. It appears that it is not, which is why you are seeing the diagonal line connecting the first and last points of the new section. I've added this as FGU-968 and will take a look at it very soon.

Zacchaeus
March 17th, 2020, 20:05
Interesting because I'm not seeing that.

I drew a rectangle and then a line crossing one of the sides. Selected the cross point and deleted it.

pindercarl
March 17th, 2020, 20:10
Interesting because I'm not seeing that.

I drew a rectangle and then a line crossing one of the sides. Selected the cross point and deleted it.

I haven't been able to recreate using those exact steps either, but I have been able to recreate it.

Acererak
March 18th, 2020, 15:29
I haven't been able to recreate using those exact steps either, but I have been able to recreate it.

Hi,

You mean this is a real issue ?
It not happens every time, and on my side I can't find why it happens sometimes and not the other. On xml campaign file I shared in last post it is in the state just before point deletion and when I open it and delete I obtain this behavior again.
Only module loaded is Tomb of horror, and it's 10th players map.

I will send you additional information if I find some clues.

Fabrice

pindercarl
March 18th, 2020, 17:05
Hi,

You mean this is a real issue ?
It not happens every time, and on my side I can't find why it happens sometimes and not the other. On xml campaign file I shared in last post it is in the state just before point deletion and when I open it and delete I obtain this behavior again.
Only module loaded is Tomb of horror, and it's 10th players map.

I will send you additional information if I find some clues.

Fabrice

It is a real issue. It should be fixed when the next version is released.

Acererak
March 19th, 2020, 18:59
It is a real issue. It should be fixed when the next version is released.

Hi,

For information I had no issue today after update and some play with it. It seems to be fixed, thank you!