Warlock Pact of the Blade with Improved Pact Weapon Invocation - Weapon Handling

[Minty23185Fresh]

I'm probably over thinking this and it's more simple than it seems. How do you handle the add hoc summoning of a pact weapon, any weapon?

For one: The weapon counts as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage. (Pact Boon: Pact of the Blade)

And two: The weapon gains a +1 bonus to its attack and damage rolls, unless.... (Improved Pact Weapon Invocation, Xanathar's Guide...)

For one target it might be particularly useful to use a bludgeoning weapon, for another maybe piercing or slashing, reach might be to the Warlock's advantage in one situation, finesse in another. Adding every weapon to the Inventory page and/or the Actions page of the character sheet, then adding the +1 attack and damage rolls plus the magic damage type to each of them, on the off chance the character might use that weapon this time, seems ludicrous.

You could do it each time the Pact Boon is used, but, at least in my case that's pretty time consuming.

Any suggestions?

[Minty23185Fresh]

I might have figured it out. As the DM: Duplicate all the weapons in the Items Library, modify them with the magic and +1 attack and damage, then share them with the player with the Warlock.

When a particular weapon is summoned as the Pact Weapon, drag it to inventory....

YUCK!

Any other more creative ways to do this?

[Zacchaeus]

Add an effect ATK: 1; DMG: 1; DMGTYPE: magic

[epithet]

I'd just create a new weapon on the character's action tab, call it Pact Weapon (or Pact Longsword, or whatever.) Set it up with the right weapon properties and to use the right stat bonus. Don't link it to an item in the character's inventory.

[Minty23185Fresh]

I'd just create a new weapon on the character's action tab, call it Pact Weapon (or Pact Longsword, or whatever.) Set it up with the right weapon properties and to use the right stat bonus. Don't link it to an item in the character's inventory.
I thought about this, but if my understanding is correct, if I decide to use a weapon with different stats (say a rapier instead of a mace), then I still have to modify stats (of my “Pact Weapon”).

[Minty23185Fresh]

Add an effect ATK: 1; DMG: 1; DMGTYPE: magic
I had considered an effect, wasn’t sure of the wording. But I thought it would have to be attached to each weapon. Now that you’ve said this, and I’ve read it, I understand that I can just create a Power called Pact Weapon with this effect and apply it to myself.

Isn’t this going to be a problem for spells. With a blanket effect like this doesn’t it get applied to everything? So I have to limit its duration or expenditure.

I just tried it. Setting up a Pact Weapon Power with the effect you mention Zacchaeus and an “Expend?” of “On Next Action” seems to do the trick.

I have to apply it twice though. The scenario would look like this:
Add a weapon to my Actions tab.
Apply the Pact Weapon Power Effect
Roll the attack (ATK: 1 is applied)
(the effect expires at the end of the roll)
If the attack was successful
Apply the effect again
Roll the damage (DMG: 1; DMGTYPE: magic applied)
(again the effect expires at the end of the roll)
Bonus action: use Eldritch Blast
(Since the effect expired it doesn’t affect anything else.)

Thank you.

[Zacchaeus]

You could conceivably set the expend to once per modifier but then you have the difficulty of missing with the attack roll and then having to manually remove the effects. Another method would be to split it into two effects the first just with the attack and the second combining the damage and damage type. Both could be set to expend on next roll.

Having said all that, generally I've found that the character summons the same weapon every time (the one that does the most damage obviously :)), so it can just be created as a weapon line.

[epithet]

Yeah, I have rarely seen a blade pact warlock change the weapon for any reason other than finding a magic item. The shape and the description of the weapon tend to become part of the character identity.

[Three of Swords]

Add an effect ATK: 1; DMG: 1; DMGTYPE: magic

Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't this apply to all attacks? So if the warlock cast eldritch blast, it would affect that as well?

[Zacchaeus]

Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't this apply to all attacks? So if the warlock cast eldritch blast, it would affect that as well?
Yes, if you put it on permanently but you need to set the expend to on next action. The effect is applied just before the attack roll and then again before the damage roll. Which is the point Minty makes in post #6 above.

[LordEntrails]

Or just remove the effect before you attack with something other than your pact weapon. It depends on how you play and what you prefer :)

I too find that I have no need for more than 1 or 2 pact weapons. Unlike 3.5, creatures tend not to have resistance or immunity to just one martial damage type. And then if I'm attacking with a weapon, it will always be a pact weapon.

But, lots of ways depending upon what and how you want to play.

[Three of Swords]

Yes, if you put it on permanently but you need to set the expend to on next action. The effect is applied just before the attack roll and then again before the damage roll. Which is the point Minty makes in post #6 above.

Gotcha. Thanks.

[Minty23185Fresh]

Yeah, I have rarely seen a blade pact warlock change the weapon for any reason other than finding a magic item. The shape and the description of the weapon tend to become part of the character identity.

Conceivably I might want to use different weapons for differing NPC opponents based on their AC. I have a +3 DEX bonus but +0 STR bonus. Being able to get that +3 to hit with a finesse weapon might be preferable to the +0 of the non finesse even though the finesse weapons do less damage (on average). Whereas if I come up against one of those punching bag, low AC NPCs it might be advantageous to take the +0 to hit penalty in favor of the higher damage of two handed weapon.

But I concede the point, I'm, in all likelihood only going to need a couple at most.

Thanks everyone for chiming in.

[GavinRuneblade]

Conceivably I might want to use different weapons for differing NPC opponents based on their AC. I have a +3 DEX bonus but +0 STR bonus. Being able to get that +3 to hit with a finesse weapon might be preferable to the +0 of the non finesse even though the finesse weapons do less damage (on average). Whereas if I come up against one of those punching bag, low AC NPCs it might be advantageous to take the +0 to hit penalty in favor of the higher damage of two handed weapon.

But I concede the point, I'm, in all likelihood only going to need a couple at most.

Thanks everyone for chiming in.

Not counting houserules, you must use the same stat for damage and to hit. So in your example there is never a case where you want to use the +0 to hit/dmg strength weapon. Finesse weapons move down 1 die size and that is 1 point average 2 points max. The 3 point damage bonus is greater in every case.

If you have a reason to swap to a two-handed weapon, on the other hand, and are not using any third-party equipment lists, then the lack of a two-handed finesse weapon might be an edge case. Going from the d6 of a scimitar or shortsword, or even the d8 of a rapier to the 2d6 or 1d12 of a maul or greataxe might be worth it. but just barely. A shortsword's 1d6+3 averages 6.5 vs the same 6.5 of a 1d12 so not really and the rapier is 7.5 on average so definitely better than the greataxe. But the 2d6 maul has an average of 7 so it would be superior to the shortsword and yet still a worse option than the rapier with +3 damage. This is on average. If you have a crit-fishing build or reroll 1s and/or 2s you can squeeze out an increase from the higher max damage.

Kinda too much work though, just use the rapier vs everyone or bust out the comprehensive equipment manual (https://www.dmsguild.com/product/218782/The-Comprehensive-Equipment-Manual-Revised) and use a naginata ^.^

[Minty23185Fresh]

Thanks GavinRuneblade. I stand corrected. My premise was incorrect. And thanks for the detailed math. I probably wouldn’t have gone to that fine of detail, though maybe in the future I should. The best about being wrong here is, I get to deal with just one weapon, the rapier.

[GavinRuneblade]

Thanks GavinRuneblade. I stand corrected. My premise was incorrect. And thanks for the detailed math. I probably wouldn’t have gone to that fine of detail, though maybe in the future I should. The best about being wrong here is, I get to deal with just one weapon, the rapier.

No worries. I love building characters and figuring out how to get the optimal effect for the least resources so I can use the most resources for totally sub-optimal but fun things. And ya the rapier is rather a bit too good as a side effect of how powerful a stat dex is.

Though, I'm ok with that. Except for a quickdraw scenario most of the best swordsmen I know in real life say they'd choose a rapier over any other sword ever made on earth if they had to fight a duel to the death.