Version 2.0 update: Reference documentation preview

[Goblin-King]

We're all home from a very busy Gen Con and back to our regular schedule, so another small update on what's going on.

First let me thank all the interested folk who visited our booth at Gen Con and gave us very encouraging feedback. I think by everything we saw down there, we're headed the in the right direction with things.

I'm very happy to be able to share something a bit more concrete this time: a preview of our version 2.0 ruleset reference documentation. Before you click on the link below, I'm going to ask you to keep a couple of things in mind...
The reference is work in progress, and some things might be adjusted, change altogether or even be removed
This all applies to version 2.0, and won't be effective until that is out, unfortunately. Also, please try to keep any discussion or feedback to this thread or a limited number of others as this board is mostly about what is available now.
The reference is not complete, many elements are still missing. We'll be adding to this once we get more of it ready, so keep an eye on this thread for updates.
This reference will be accompanied by a plain english (as plain as it can get...) guide that will explain how to set things up. The reference itself might not be that much for nontechnical people, but it should give more technical people an idea on what you can do.All that out of the way, see the documentation preview here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/refdocbeta/).

Regarding other issues with the update, we're pretty much still working with the actual implementation. Unfortunately it's kind of difficult to give you any more information about that at this time, but I expect to be back with some screenshots relatively soon.

[joeru]

Looks like a great start at a first glance! Take your time to work things out.

[Toadwart]

The documentation looks good :D

[joshuha]

Yes, I am salivating at the elements stuff right now. I see those as the most useful while customizing.

[sunbeam60]

OMG, bring it on! If all your documentation is up to this standard, FG will end up doing things no one has imagined. Thanks for the preview.

[Griogre]

Yes very nice. I only glanced through it but this seems pretty similar in quality to some of the Neverwinter Nights Scripting Documentation (done by users). The dice stuff looks very nice.

[Cantstanzya]

I hope everyone now knows why this is taking longer than expected. The documentation looks great. The possibilities look endless.

[Zuxius]

I sure don't understand it, but I am liking it :) For those who know what this means, broaden our understanding (or dumb it down for us idiots).

[Oberoten]

I do see however that backwards compatible it ain't. Will there be some kind of conversion too or will we have to go through the work of learning a new but similar form of the XML from scratch up to rebuilt what we allready had?

What about the people that have payed for modules and rulesets etc?

[Goblin-King]

I do see however that backwards compatible it ain't. Will there be some kind of conversion too or will we have to go through the work of learning a new but similar form of the XML from scratch up to rebuilt what we allready had?
This is basically the recommended format of doing things with 2.0, the way you should do it if you started from scratch. We'll also be working on compatibility where possible - most of the basic structure will be intact and it's possible to, e.g. treat "<bounds rect=... />" the same as "<bounds><rect>...</rect></bounds>". It's likely most of this work will happen after we start the testing phase where users can participate so we can respond to feedback at that point.

There will be some incompatibilities, this is the primary reason why 2.0 will install parallel to 1.05 so you can transfer your campaign when you feel ready for it.

The adventure (module) and campaign formats shouldn't change, they will just be expanded with the new data types.

[Oberoten]

And THAT my good sir is EXACTY what I wanted to hear right now. :) Had me worried there for a while... *eyes the ArsMagica conversion* ... The charsheet alone is some 2300 lines so far...

[Azrael Nightstar]

I know it's a bit early for this, but these are just thoughts/suggestions, so I figure no harm in putting them out there now.

Might I suggest the converter approach? I see a few advantages to this. First, you wouldn't have to worry about putting backwards-compatibility into the program itself. If someone wants to use a 1.X ruleset they still can (so no loss of backwards compatiblity) but it would be less work for you guys, meaning a faster path to release, and a less complex (and less massive) program, which takes one possible bug-causing factor out of the equation. You guys could even let the community make the converter once you've got the final code structure figured out, by releasing what 1.X rulesets will need changed to be compatible (<bounds rect="X,Y,x,y" /> to <bounds><rect>X,Y,x,y</rect></bounds> for example). It sounds like making a conversion tool should be an easy enough job for those here with the proper expertise (myself not included) should someone(s) volunteer (and I'm guessing someone(s) would ;)). This would give us a nice headstart on getting our rulesets up to code (conceivably ready by release) and perhaps more importantly would make updating a ruleset parallel to both formats (1.X and 2.0) a much simpler matter until everyone was comfortable with the new structure. The converter approach would also greatly help with the potential problem of lots of out-of-date rulesets floating around (we wouldn't have to wait on someone to make converting a given 1.X set their pet project). And finally, if you guys did eventually want to make an "official" converter, you could do so once the better stuff you have to worry about is taken care of. Another option you'd have would be to look over the one(s) created by the community, approve them and post them on the site.

Sorry for the long post, didn't expect that, but I hope I've explained my ideas.

[MtnManiacX]

Is 2.0 just a new ruleset, or is it an engine update? Can we expect performance and stability improvements?

[Oberoten]

Pretty much a complete engine rewrite to put in additional features and fixing the known bugs in previous versions.

[trolane]

API wise it looks like your making a customizable client.
Here's the issue though. I program at work, what i want is to relax with a client with dnd 3.5 rules online client. I don't want to have to program something to make it happen. I just want to drag and drop some images, fog of war, chat, dice, 3.5 rules integrated ( not the half *** d20 open stuff).
I want to be able to import maps fro dundjinni or cc3 right from the app.
I want to be able to electronic versions of rules ( such as e-tools) for addons in a timely manner that integrate seemlessly with the client.

If you all ever want to make real progress financially, you need to integrate all that and focus on end users not developers.

[Oberoten]

Ehhh... No. License-vise that'd be a bad move since they'd be shut down by Wizards of the coast.

Also, not everyone wants to play AD&D or D&D. However, including the open D20 stuff means that going 3.5 etc will be rather less work than any other system.

[richvalle]

API wise it looks like your making a customizable client.
Here's the issue though. I program at work, what i want is to relax with a client with dnd 3.5 rules online client. I don't want to have to program something to make it happen. I just want to drag and drop some images, fog of war, chat, dice, 3.5 rules integrated ( not the half *** d20 open stuff).
I want to be able to import maps fro dundjinni or cc3 right from the app.
I want to be able to electronic versions of rules ( such as e-tools) for addons in a timely manner that integrate seemlessly with the client.

If you all ever want to make real progress financially, you need to integrate all that and focus on end users not developers.

I don't think they are going to remove any funcionality that is there now. Most of what you are asking for is already there: drag and drop images (into the images folder), fow, chat, dice, 3.5 srd, 'import maps' (treated as images).

The functionality they are adding should allow them and other users/3rd party companies to 'focus on end users' better. >I< certainly don't plan on doing any programing or scripting but I do plan on using things that other people come up with and share.

rv

[Snikle]

If you all ever want to make real progress financially, you need to integrate all that and focus on end users not developers.

I think you are wrong there. With focusing on their own system, and not trying to be 'plug n play' with every single rpg application on the market today, they allow other developers to create content for them. It focuses their company assests where it should be, on their product. I believe this is the same marketing strategy that pushed WotC to implement the d20 OGL rules. Additionally, not every one uses the programs you mentioned, myself included, so I dont want them to waste precious programming time to make it compatible with stuff I never use.
Now, when they add the 'Order Pizza Hut' button, that will be outstanding! ;)

For that matter, I still dont see why everyone wants the rules integrated, sure they are nice for the occational quick look up.....but are you really using the in-FG rules that damn much?

[richvalle]

For that matter, I still dont see why everyone wants the rules integrated, sure they are nice for the occational quick look up.....but are you really using the in-FG rules that damn much?


I REALLY like that the rules are NOT intergrated. Its one of the things that alwasy drove me crazy about computer games... we couldn't house rule in things.

Having the feats as just a text line for example...perfect.

rv

[Snikle]

Good point, house rules I got, good idea.
I just think we could distribute more 'rulesets' if we didnt focus on including all the rules, just a character sheet so the game could be played.

[Doswelk]

Good point, house rules I got, good idea.
I just think we could distribute more 'rulesets' if we didnt focus on including all the rules, just a character sheet so the game could be played.

I agree (after having completed ruleset the thought of ever doing another one is scary right now). If you just published the character sheet (and any xml code required for funny dice or card mechanics) more systems would be out there.

[LordTomar]

I agree (after having completed ruleset the thought of ever doing another one is scary right now). If you just published the character sheet (and any xml code required for funny dice or card mechanics) more systems would be out there.


Also if you dont add in all the rules, you should be able to share the ruleset with anyone (as long as your not using copyrighted graphics for the ruleset) without having to worry about copyright infrignment.

[Tailz Silver Paws]

Uh.... um.... yeah.... huh...?

Its all chinese to me, but hey its good to see the paperwork and documentation. I'll stick to doing the pretty pictures and let someone else cut the code when 2.0 comes out - till then my FG WWII ruleset can wait.

[Larac]

The XML Ref is some what helpful, where might one find the list of changes and/or features that are being worked on?

TY for posting some info, hope to hear more in the near future.

Lee

[joshuha]

Well you can infer some features by the exposed code. While the non-programmer types might have problems using the new API realize that alot of those changes will be built into the default ruleset provided. For instance, I see they did implement the "dice cup" and having this available through the API will let me do a Serenity ruleset. Also, one neat thing I saw was a diefield for a database node. I think this will mean you can have a field on your sheet that you can either click or drag to make a die roll. That means for games like Serenity (where stats and skills are listed as dice) you could just click the stat to trigger a roll. That most likely will function with the d20 ruleset as well. So just click on the strength mod and you can tie it to a d20 + str mod roll.

[Toadwart]

The documentation is sweet.
Someone else mentioned pdf and I'd quite like to see an offline-readable version if at all possible. Internet isn't always a reliable beastie.

One othe rthing. I notice that some of the old FG1 nodes are still supported. Well the only one I have actually run across is the "windowopencontrol" which seems to be interchangeable with "windowreferencecontrol".
I'm guessing these will be phased out eventually? So should we stick to only using the official list thats in the reference documentation?

[sloejack]

Not to re-awaken a dead thread but I did find a useful document out there that should probably make it's way into the library. A LUA 5.1 Quick Reference (https://thomaslauer.com/download/luarefv51.pdf) when used with the 5.1 manual makes looking up functions that you can't quite remember the syntax on a bit easier.

[Valarian]

There is a link to the Lua reference in the Library Ruleset Modification Guide documentation.
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/modguide/scripting.xcp

[sloejack]

There is a link to the Lua reference in the Library Ruleset Modification Guide documentation.
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/modguide/scripting.xcp

Reference yes, Quick Reference no. :) Just saying that the quick reference is a bit handier once you've gotten the basics down but need to look up the use (spelling) of a specific function.