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Snikle
August 10th, 2006, 19:22
Please create a new thread for the GenCon discussion. This thread has a spam topic and first post content.

Done. And let me be the devil's advocate.
Since it is now GenCon, and the Devs obviously have internet access....how's about an update for those of us not able to enjoy the con?

Kalan
August 10th, 2006, 19:41
Done. And let me be the devil's advocate.
Since it is now GenCon, and the Devs obviously have internet access....how's about an update for those of us not able to enjoy the con?

We want update...we want update...

Mind I think I may have the cell# of my buddy who's attending...maybe time to call him up ;)

Snikle
August 10th, 2006, 19:44
do it! do it! Tell him the entire community's very existence is hanging on his ability to give us an update from the SM booth!

kalmarjan
August 10th, 2006, 21:00
Yes! We're dying here!

<Dupre- Say hi to Kevin for me :)>

Sandeman

richvalle
August 10th, 2006, 21:01
Yes! Update and let us know if they are running a 2.0 demo. And how it looks. And what features it has. And how the init tracker is. And... and...

:)

rv

Stuart
August 10th, 2006, 21:17
May have something for you tomorrow (UK time) - Thore promised me an update.

richvalle
August 10th, 2006, 21:27
And post links to Gencon pic sites. I think it was Ilwan who posted a great one last year.

In that vein: http://www.enworld.org/gallery/browseimages.php?c=29

Not much there yet but it should grow as the week goes on.

rv

richvalle
August 10th, 2006, 21:32
I just got a call from a friend at Gencon. No demo!!! :(

rv

Stuart
August 10th, 2006, 21:54
Hmm ... but a demo of FG 1.05 right ? :confused:
Now I'm optimistic :(

Snikle
August 10th, 2006, 22:01
I knew it! They are just leading us along.........

Actually if I were them, which I am not, I wouldn't run a 2.0 demo either, I would run 1.5. It is decently stable and has many great functions. To the unknowing masses, it would would appear to be a great product and they would inevitably make some sales. Run 2.0 without it being perfected...it crashes...not only did you not gain sales, you probably lost potential sales.

Bad news though, is if it is not good enough or ready enough to run there...more than likely it will be a while before we see it here. :(

Thore_Ironrock
August 11th, 2006, 03:38
Hi-ho all from Indy!

You have to give us some time to get things posted, as the hotel's "free" wireless sort of blows, and we're at the convention all for most of the day. When I get a decent connection I will post some pics from the show, including out booth. We are demo'ing the current release, Snikle.

Ville, Tero and I demo'ed FG all day today, and had a lot of interested people stop by. I'm sure we'll have more as the con rolls on.

I've been speaking to the SW boys about the next update, and either they or I will post something before the end of the weekend.

Off to dinner! More soon guys!!

Kalan
August 11th, 2006, 13:16
If that wasn't a tease I dunno what is...

Almost worse than my gf...*grumble*

I want info now ;)

Seriously - just hope you guys have a good time and enlighten the gamin world about our little toy we like to play with :) Now go beat the RPGA over the head and get them to allow the Eberron Living Campaigns to be played online!

Snikle
August 11th, 2006, 14:06
Yeah I have to say, I do not understand all the cloak and dagger going on. Oh well, guess that is why they are the developers.

Thore_Ironrock
August 12th, 2006, 00:21
Nothing "cloak and dagger" at all.

From what the guys are telling me, they are integrating a lot of tools to customize FG, as well as take care of some of the minor bugs that have been floating around. This is taking some time, as they have had to redesign whole aspects of FG to do some of the things that everyone has been asking for over the past year. There is a lot that goes into a program like FG already, and to customize it even more is not a simple task.

When the time comes to announce what is going to be done in the next upgrade/version, then it will come out "exactly" what that will all encompass. Posting "when is the upgrade coming" every other day is not going to speed along the process guys, and frankly I will say that the "are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet" ... mentality is starting to get old. Please, have some patience.

Personally, after talking to people this weekend there are more than enough buyers of FG (several have stopped to say hello) that are extremely happy with how FG works right now when compared to other programs --- and frankly so am I. We are *crushing* everyone else here at the show (one guy headed back over the Screen Monkey to try and get his money back in fact), and not one person we'v talked to has had anything bad to say about the software.

As programmers SW wants to put out a product that is going to work, and work correctly -- and I can't disagree with that mindset at all. Rushing anything to release is just going to cause more problems (and even more complaining from the community) in the long run, and in addition will be bad for business. When Ville and Tero are ready they will post more detailed information on the upgrade to the forums for everyone to digest. Until that time, as community supporters of the software I would hope that everyone would trust their judgement in this and continue to support FG 100%.

... now, I'm off to the Code Monkey party ... Oik!

Kalan
August 12th, 2006, 00:25
First he teases about bein at Gen Con, and sharin a booth with the FG guys...

Now he teases about goin drinkin...

Jerk ;)

JK :) And I agree with everythin you pointed out Thore - I for one don't really care when the new patch comes out - yah there's LOTS I wanna do when it does, but I'm not in any real panic as yet. The program works 99% of the time - and the only time I've ever had crashes has been when I do somethin stupid like open other windows at the same time.

All I can say is thanks for the word up, and at least we know they ARE workin on it :)

Jozan
August 12th, 2006, 03:15
Current version has been working GREAT for my group.:cool:
I am sure the newer version will be even better,and if waiting a while longer for it makes it better then that's fine with me.:D

Ablefish
August 13th, 2006, 00:57
To be honest, while there are a few "where the hell is it?" posts, I think the majority of people are just frustrated by the lack of communication with the community. I'm definitely one of those people who think FG does a great job as it stands now. I've been able to run a campaign with very little trouble, but when you give dates and then those dates pass with no word...well, that's annoying. A lot of people, myself included, kind of put off developing rulesets or custom content because the new version was a month or two away, so we thought.

I dunno, I certainly would rather wait and get a more robust product in the end, but there must be some happy middle ground between a weekly developer's blog and an information blackout.

My 2 cents, anyway. Glad to hear the team is bitch-slapping the competition - they've certainly got a great product imo.

Larac
August 13th, 2006, 02:53
I am one who has just started using FG, we have played 2 sessions so far, many things work well, others need help.

Our Main issues so far
Token Box: too small, no list option

Copy and Paste is another


Also I do not want to put a lot of work in to FG atm because the big update was/is soon.

With hopes that things will work eaiser and better.

I understood Gen Con was the time it was to be released, some of the defensive tones in this topic worries me, for more than one reason.

All most folks seem to really want is a straight answer on what is happening.

Lee

Dukeybear
August 14th, 2006, 03:48
When the time comes to announce what is going to be done in the next upgrade/version, then it will come out "exactly" what that will all encompass. Posting "when is the upgrade coming" every other day is not going to speed along the process guys, and frankly I will say that the "are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet" ... mentality is starting to get old. Please, have some patience.

:confused:

I take offense at this post. I really don't think the amount of posts that inquire about that status of FG2.0 is nearly what you make it out to be. Then to paint all of these posts as imbecilic and whiny is not only unfair to the FG community but is also unprofessional. Believe it or not, when you post on a forum with your name and company information, you are representing your company.

First, the number of posts are nothing compared to a AAA game title's message board or MS Vista's. The posts that I see are usually someone once a week who wants just a small update from the company to validate that FG 2.0 is in fact coming out. A lot of people are waiting to create custom rulesets and other add-ons like some of the above posters have explained. Other people just have an innocent, enthusiastic interest in when the product is coming out because they love the product. However when "Spring 2006" rolls around and nothing is said and no product is delivered, they get concerned.

When Ged posts from the ivory tower and says "Yeah, its still coming out" You dont see people posting "U SUXOOORR! LAIR!" They are just happy to know that there still is active development or at least some glimmer of hope. When an event such as Gencon rolls around naturally people are going to be excited and want to know if Gencon has any news because there isnt much forthcoming elsewhere. In fact Smite Works is extraordinarily lucky to have a user base who is so supportive and appreciative. So for you to say that it is "getting old" is tantamount to a slap in the face.



As programmers SW wants to put out a product that is going to work, and work correctly -- and I can't disagree with that mindset at all. Rushing anything to release is just going to cause more problems (and even more complaining from the community) in the long run, and in addition will be bad for business. When Ville and Tero are ready they will post more detailed information on the upgrade to the forums for everyone to digest. Until that time, as community supporters of the software I would hope that everyone would trust their judgement in this and continue to support FG 100%.

Absolutely not. I am a software developer, i.e. I write code and GUI's for people and they pay me for that service. They become my customers. I work in an industry where there are military colonels that want certain programs on a certain date. I am accountable to them and believe me, when top brass wants something and you miss their milestones (which always happens in software to an extent) it's not fun explaining that the database had to be rebuilt or the .NET framework has a bug or a control bought from a vendor isnt up to spec.

But that's my job and my work ethic. When I hired in, I expected to be held to a certain standard. I can't tell my customer, "Relax. When I feel ready, I will tell you whats going on. Oh and by the way, youre getting annoying." I'm not calling for SW to be audited or to post UML documents or have an 800 number that will tell us up to the hour status of how each class is being coded. In fact if SW wants to stonewall thats fine, it's their ethic and way of doing business.

-FINE-

But for the fans worldwide (aka customers and POTENTIAL customers) who you portrayed as acting like spoiled children, I think you owe them an apology. Like I said before you are acting as a company representative for Digital Adventures, LLC and if that's Digital Adventures, LLC's company line then you might want to take some extension courses in Public Relations and marketing. If that's the image you want of your company then that's fine too just dont expect any business from me.


Not angry, just saying.

kalmarjan
August 14th, 2006, 06:04
:confused:

I take offense at this post. I really don't think the amount of posts that inquire about that status of FG2.0 is nearly what you make it out to be. Then to paint all of these posts as imbecilic and whiny is not only unfair to the FG community but is also unprofessional. Believe it or not, when you post on a forum with your name and company information, you are representing your company.

First, the number of posts are nothing compared to a AAA game title's message board or MS Vista's. The posts that I see are usually someone once a week who wants just a small update from the company to validate that FG 2.0 is in fact coming out. A lot of people are waiting to create custom rulesets and other add-ons like some of the above posters have explained. Other people just have an innocent, enthusiastic interest in when the product is coming out because they love the product. However when "Spring 2006" rolls around and nothing is said and no product is delivered, they get concerned.

When Ged posts from the ivory tower and says "Yeah, its still coming out" You dont see people posting "U SUXOOORR! LAIR!" They are just happy to know that there still is active development or at least some glimmer of hope. When an event such as Gencon rolls around naturally people are going to be excited and want to know if Gencon has any news because there isnt much forthcoming elsewhere. In fact Smite Works is extraordinarily lucky to have a user base who is so supportive and appreciative. So for you to say that it is "getting old" is tantamount to a slap in the face.



Absolutely not. I am a software developer, i.e. I write code and GUI's for people and they pay me for that service. They become my customers. I work in an industry where there are military colonels that want certain programs on a certain date. I am accountable to them and believe me, when top brass wants something and you miss their milestones (which always happens in software to an extent) it's not fun explaining that the database had to be rebuilt or the .NET framework has a bug or a control bought from a vendor isnt up to spec.

But that's my job and my work ethic. When I hired in, I expected to be held to a certain standard. I can't tell my customer, "Relax. When I feel ready, I will tell you whats going on. Oh and by the way, youre getting annoying." I'm not calling for SW to be audited or to post UML documents or have an 800 number that will tell us up to the hour status of how each class is being coded. In fact if SW wants to stonewall thats fine, it's their ethic and way of doing business.

-FINE-

But for the fans worldwide (aka customers and POTENTIAL customers) who you portrayed as acting like spoiled children, I think you owe them an apology. Like I said before you are acting as a company representative for Digital Adventures, LLC and if that's Digital Adventures, LLC's company line then you might want to take some extension courses in Public Relations and marketing. If that's the image you want of your company then that's fine too just dont expect any business from me.


Not angry, just saying.

Couple of things here.

1) While I applaud the fact that you are a software designer, and you do this for a living, I do not agree with you attacking Thore. Believe it or not, I think the statement that Thore made was more tongue in cheek than anything else. What I take issue with is you saying in one breath that Thore is unprofessional, then slamming him with a statement like " you might want to take some extension courses in Public Relations and marketing". Not only is it condescending of you to say so, but it looks like you could take your own advice. Not angry; Just saying.

2) Comparing the release of FG 2.0 to Vista, or another AAA game is like comapring a jackhammer to a sledgehammer. Both do the same thing, but they are different. FG fills a niche, and Vista will fill something bigger than that. Also, Vista will probably cost around 400$ to run a computer. FG will still cost what it does, and will not be required to run a computer. So your comparison is a little flawed. Not angry; Just Saying.

3) I can see by the number of posts that you are quite new here. You probably have not have to read EVERY single day "When is the new FG coming out?????". You also were not there when 1.04 came out, and there were a few bugs to be hammered out. You were not through the 6 incarnations of the current patch either. The consensus of the FG community is that we would rather see a patch come out that works (Mostly) than have to go through that again. You are new here, so I can see you not remembering the history there. Search is your friend. Not angry; Just saying.

4) There has been reports to what is going on with FG, and your statement alluding to an "Ivory Tower" is also condescending. Again, search is your friend. Read through the previous posts, and you will see that they are working hard on the new patch, and the next GEN of FG will be different, and the Devs need to make sure that the new incarnation does not break anyone's rulesets, or campaigns. Not angry; Just saying.

Finally, don't take this as an attack on you, I just feel that thinking things through before you post will prevent the dirty boot taste in your mouth. I have nothing but good things to say about Thore, and his company. They are bringing the products to FG that are cool. Iron Heroes? Cool. AE? Cool. Ptolus?? That would be cool.

Cheers,

Sandeman

Not anrgry; Just saying.

Dukeybear
August 14th, 2006, 15:09
Hey kalmarjan,

Thanks for your post. While I don't want to turn this forum into a personal discussion, please let me respond to a few things and lets agree to take this to email if there is anything further.


I thought about responding to Thore_Ironrock all weekend. So there is no dirty boot taste.
Just because I have low post totals has nothing to do with me not being around for awhile. I've check this board every couple of days for news since I purchased the product early last year. I usually don't post off the seat of my pants because it's just not worth it to me except in rare occasions.
You've missed my entire point about PR classes and such. I am not a company mouthpiece (I do not represent my company so there is not professionalism involved with what I stated). Although I believe my above post was fairly well written and non-inflammatory.
I don't know why you think that I am demanding the product now in a buggy state. I dont want bugs. My whole point about the product is YES... the community is understanding. Don't belittle us.
Your constant usage of something I said in a post ad nauseum is either your idea of being insanely clever or school yard mocking. Especially when you say you are not attacking me. If you weren't, why throw words up in my face repeatedly?
Why you feel you need to be condescending to me (see above) over a post that was not directed to you in any way, shape or form is beyond me but thats your call. Maybe you're angling for a tshirt from somebody.


In short, I think FG is an awesome product with an EXCELLENT user base. The level of patience that everyone has with repeated delays shows just how supportive the customer is. I think thats great. I am a Smite Works supporter. I am a Fantasy Grounds supporter. I love it. My friends and I play D&D every other weekend which is something that we haven't been able to do since we "grew up" and were scattered around the globe.

I think the level of ingenuity that people have demonstrated with getting custom rule sets and helping each other out with XML since there is so little documentation is outstanding! YAY for people!:D This level of comraderie and mutual respect is a model for a fanbase and other software developers would love to have such excellent and fairly undemanding customers.

This is why, tongue in cheek or not, I was offended. Because I am a customer too. I so many times wanted to post, "Any news? It's been 4 weeks since we last heard from somebody." but haven't. This amazing group of people (US) was told "Sit down and shut up" from someone who isn't even SW. If you are ok with that, fine. Take it like a good boy. Dont tell me that I am out of line and repeat something over and over again like youre Whitman.

I dont want your post to poison future readers of this thread against me. I could go on but I wont. I want this to be friendly and these forums to be a happy place. We should be strong and enthuiastic towards the product and that is why I posted: Because I feel that we deserve better.

Thanks! Love you all! :)

kalmarjan
August 14th, 2006, 17:13
Sorry to have offended you. :)

I can understand your frustration with hearing what you believe to be a condescending remark from Thore. That said, I am the type of person who will come to the defense of someone who is not there to defend himself. (Thore was at the booth in GenCon, and having issues with his connectivity, so it is not like he could write in to defend himself.)

Also, when a person is making an attack against the owner of DA (Digital Adventures), I feel the need to jump in to make that defense, because I work for Thore. (I was the person who created the layout/graphics arts for the Iron Heroes ruleset, with Thore.)

As for length in time, I feel your pain. I have been with FG since the beginning, and I have waited a Long Time for the update. With apprehension, if I may add, because rumor says there is going to be a major change in the structure of FG. While that creates more fun for me trying to redo my RTTTOEE campaign, I am really hoping that the guys at SW take their time and get it right. :)

I will not make this into a personal thread against you. The reason I wrote my post the way I did was to drive home my point on the irony of your original post. I understand if you took offense, but I also hope that you understand by concluding that Thore is condescending you and the other people reading this thread is just plain wrong.

Put yourself in his shoes for a second. Four days at a GenCon booth with about every 2nd person asking when the new update is coming. He logs onto the forums and sees... every second question is about the new update and when it is coming. In his shoes, I would ask everyone to be patient as well.

Lastly, if you felt that I was condescending towards you, I am sorry that you feel that way. Rest assured, that was not my intention. If I was to be condescending, there would be no doubt in your mind as to whether I was or not. I just do not go out like that.

Cheers,

Sandeman

Dukeybear
August 14th, 2006, 17:42
Thanks! While we might just have to agree to disagree on some things I appreciate your response.

I wish FG, SW and Digital Adventures, LLC the very best and I want them to succeed. IMO RPG'ing is one of the best things you can do with a group of friends and I appreciate their efforts to facilitate that great occasion.

So without getting involved with intreweb forum drama (which is pretty trivial when you have a mortgage payment to pay and dogs to pet) lets all have a:


group hug!

I think we can all agree that we want FG to be the best possible product.

Adios and have fun at Gencon!

Ablefish
August 14th, 2006, 19:39
Heh, I'm glad you guys worked this out and I'm not trying to fan any fires, but I also found Thore's post somewhat condescending and the only point I tried to make (and I thought Dukeybear made very well) was that some sort of semi-regular communication would alleviate a lot of the Posting and Asking that Thore found so annoying. That's all. Simple. You have the perfect medium to talk to your fans - this web page!

I mean, if the developers really find it that annoying to constantly have fans asking when the promised update of their product is coming out and you have to do a rigourous backsearch on this forum or go to a game convention to pester a guy in a booth for an answer, then...well, they've made their own bed and will have to lie in it.

But still, I love FG (we just discovered how good Skype conference calling worked last night!) and I wish them the best.

taliesinangelus
August 15th, 2006, 02:47
A short snapshot of the development cycle wouldn't take very long to post and wouldn't give away the farm if they want to keep some things back to use in marketing later.

I'm thinking that people are asking the questions because they are interested in the product. This is a good thing and something to be used for positive marketing momentum rather than deflected. It all depends on whether you see your customers as annoyances or as profit on the hoof. I am inclined to read the response written here by Thore as more of the former than the latter.

Ugluk
August 15th, 2006, 18:36
Dukeybear:

Get off your high horse.

You took offense to a post? Well, welcome to the Internet.

You think they are being unprofessional? Bullshit. This is a niche market gaming tool. It's not a military application that is going to affect a country's ability to defend itself. It's not a statewide child support enforcement system (like I worked on) that helps moms keep their babies fed. It's a game. Not even that, it's a tool to help people play a game in a different medium. And .. the product has been delivered. It is playable as sold. They are marketing a marketable product.

They want to make improvements for a new version. Great. You may not perceive that you or others are hounding them, but you aren't looking at it from their point of view, which is the sum of all the requests, and repeated requests for information. If they tell you about something they are working on but they decide against it due to feasibility, they are going to get no end of **** about it. In their shoes, I'd keep my cards close to the chest as well.

Ablefish
August 15th, 2006, 20:00
Lol, welcome to the internet indeed... Where any poster can sign up and inflame a conversation. :)

I really don't think it involves a very high horse to suggest that if the developers are tired of hearing people whine (and that was very much the tone of Thore's email) that they should consider offering more information to their clients. I'm not saying they have to release a feature list, just something beyond nothing. I honestly haven't heard any kind of valid reason why this should be impossible. Should be part of doing business don't you think?

And I hope you're not suggesting that because FG isn't a military or business application that the developers are incapable of being unprofessional? Last time I checked, they sell a product and have clients... ? What am I missing?

Ugluk
August 15th, 2006, 20:50
I'll grant that I have not been among these forums for long. Perhaps you can point out to me where Smite Works is selling version 2.0. When I purchased the full license I may have missed a bullet point stating that "version 1.5 works but what you really want is 2.0 which is coming out soon".

Not having seen that so far, I think you are using the term 'client' fairly liberally. You purchased a one-time-fee product. You are not on a support contract. You are not using services of Smite Works other than the forum itself. You have a functional product.

My point / opinion is that if Smite Works is not trying to market 2.0 to you, you shouldn't claim to be a mistreated client.

Ablefish
August 15th, 2006, 22:09
Hmm... You sure you're not reading more into what's being said? Don't quite know how we arrived at "mistreated client". I'm pretty sure I mentioned several times (in this very thread) how highly I thought of 1.5.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your argument is that because 2.0 is free to the current "client base", we're not entiltled to any information about the project, despite original statements that it would be released end of April?

For the sake of argument, let's say that's true - we're all not on a support-contract, so they owe us nothing. And saying that, it basically reduces the current userbase to "fans", rather than "clients".

Fine, as fans, do you think it's unreasonable to start asking "what's up?" when you go another 2 months without any kind of official statement the last being in June?

And, ironically, if you read Goblin-King's post, he mentions releasing 2.0 as a public test version with the focus being on collecting a lot of feedback from the users. It also talks about being interested in the opinions of users on the new system... and of providing documents to help support the community's ruleset modification efforts... etc... all kinds of little carrots.

But you know what, I could live with the lack of updates - it's admittedly a little shoddy for a company that relies a lot of its users to promote and provide supplemental material - but I could live with. But I do take exception to Thore coming on and saying how annoying it is to have people constantly asking when it's coming out. What the hell do you think is going to happen when deadlines slip by and there is NO word for 2 months.

It's not challenging stuff - just provide some information more often than every 2 months. Very simple. "Hello, we've been busy, things are working out nicely... yadayda.."

Larac
August 15th, 2006, 23:01
From the post I was called a whiny child

"I've been speaking to the SW boys about the next update, and either they or I will post something before the end of the weekend."


To be fair he never said which weekend, but it was implied.

Tues. still waiting.....


Lee

Larac
August 15th, 2006, 23:14
[QUOTE=Dukeybear]Hey kalmarjan,

[LIST]
I thought about responding to Thore_Ironrock all weekend. So there is no dirty boot taste.


I have to agree, I was the main reason our group started using FG, we have 6 copies atm, were about to get 4 more.

But I am holding off now, the post really seemed to be to say screw you.

Reminds me of the CS of AO when it came out. Nearly killed the game off.

All silence does is bring fear, the more one avoids answering a question the more it seems they are hiding something.

If 2.0 is all it is supposed to be great, if it has had to have features removed thats ok too, bring them in slowly.

If it is such a huge update it deserves to be a pay upgrade, then let us know.

If it has fallen apart and looks to be another 3-6 months, let us know so we can start projects with what we have.


But to attack us, and then tell us when we will get info, and again say nothing ...

Lee

Cantstanzya
August 16th, 2006, 00:49
But to attack us, and then tell us when we will get info, and again say nothing ...
LeePlease note that Thore_Ironrock is not part of Smite Works and that his comments are his opinion. Ged is part of Smite Works and says there will be an update this week. Let's put all of this behind us and wait for the update.

Jozan
August 16th, 2006, 01:38
Cantstanzya is right, he's not part of SW so don't hold those comments against the folks that bring us this great program.:D

Thore_Ironrock
August 16th, 2006, 02:57
Wow ...

First off, I didn't mean to offend anyone. The intention of my post was to in fact defend SW against those that think they are not supporting their product or are harboring some sort of "conspiracy" regarding the next update to FG. As I said, there is no such thing, and no one at SW is "holding back" on anyone. My intent was to defend SW against such posts, not alienate anyone. You are all my customers too, and anyone that met me at the show or has chatted with me online will say as much. While some inquiries have been genuine and sincere, others have been somewhat rude -- and we won't even talk about private emails and messages that float back and forth on this subject. If you still think I'm a jerk for voicing my opinion in defense of my business associates and friends, then I guess there is nothing I can say here that will change your mind.

I will say one thing that will hopefully ring true to everyone ... and that is that if there is a reason the next version of FG is late is because of this community. Tero and Ville (and Ville) are working hard to incorportate as many of the excellent comments presented in this forum in the next version, in addition to new functionality they've been planning all along. Take all of this and put it together, and you have a MAJOR update to FG that basically re-writes large portions of the program -- something that is going to take awhile. In the meantime, you have the BEST online RPG engine on the market today with a promise that more is coming soon. When SW has a firm date, they will let everyone know. Is being patient really that hard?

Lastly, there were actually some things that we just finalized this weekend in regards to rulesets in the next version that will effect products produced by myself and CMP. All of this will be available to the public when it is finalized.

Ville has promised that he or Tero will post something within a week of getting home from Gen Con. Considering what they had to go through to fly from Finland to the states and put all of their things in order ... I'm sure you should have something soon.

Hopefully we can all put this behind us and move forward.

Thore_Ironrock
August 16th, 2006, 02:59
But to attack us, and then tell us when we will get info, and again say nothing ...
Lee


Lee,

We all only just got back from Gen Con. I only started reading posts tonight, and I know the SW team only just got home after 30 hours in the air. No one is avoiding anyone.

Thore_Ironrock
August 16th, 2006, 03:11
But I am holding off now, the post really seemed to be to say screw you.

You couldn't be more wrong.



All silence does is bring fear, the more one avoids answering a question the more it seems they are hiding something.

Again, you could not be more wrong. I really don't understand why everone has to dip paranoia into all this.



If 2.0 is all it is supposed to be great, if it has had to have features removed thats ok too, bring them in slowly.

From everything that Tero has told me, much of what they want to do will mean a redesign of a large part of FG. This often happens when a program evolves like FG has. I trust Tero and his dev team to do what is right; and anyone that has met and talked to him would feel the same way. I realize you have only my comments on this, but I'm sure others will chime in as well.



If it is such a huge update it deserves to be a pay upgrade, then let us know.

I have been told there will be no pay upgrades for the new version. That is what we told everyone the entire weekend.



If it has fallen apart and looks to be another 3-6 months, let us know so we can start projects with what we have.

Tero has told me that the way adventures work will not change. However, rulesets will to some extent. The good news is that SW will put out a comprehensive FAQ on what will need to be done if you have your own ruleset, and my team of developers will also be available to help out.

I hope that answers some of your questions.

Thore_Ironrock
August 16th, 2006, 03:20
group hug!

I'm all for a group hug Dukey. As I said ... I only meant to defend SW against those that thought there was some hidden agenda -- which is really utter rubbish. Rest assure there is none, and that they are working hard to make the product even more impressive than it is now.

Axeminister
August 16th, 2006, 08:02
Jeez, there are some short fuses here. Well, anyway, I went to Gencon and was walking around the exhibit hall for something new to do until next year, like I always do. I usually work the con to pay my way so Sunday is usually the only day I get in there to buy stuff. My buddy had recommended that I check out the Fantasy Grounds booth. So I walked up to the table and was listening to Ville (carefully I may add-due to his accent negotiation with the english language) explaining the software. Around the corner was Kevin and the computers demo-ing the product. So around the corner I went. I briefly scanned the three screens and a few of my buddies had walked up with me as Kevin had just finished with a group of spectators. I say, "yeah this is pretty cool, so EVERYONE can see the dice roll?" And Kevin's like, "yeah, watch this: and he right clicks about 10 times and rolls a 10d6 fireball for me. After that I was hooked. Not only that, but one of my buddies had already bought a gamemaster version. So I told Kevin, "I'm buying it bud, so show me how it works." He was astonished to have heard it put that way. He went through just about all the basics and answered many questions, mostly about editing and creating issues and someone elses issue with invisiblility. The result was 2 fulls, 1 lite, and the arcana evolved editions purchased.

Now, if Kevin and the guys from fantasygrounds were doing that all gencon, I assure you all, they were pretty beat after that. I commend his outstanding patients and ambitious attitude after 4 days of demos. Thanks man, I cant wait to get my group started.

Stuart
August 16th, 2006, 08:37
I reckon that makes 3 new people to the boards thanks to Smite and Digital's presentations at GenCon. Welcome aboard. If you got the AE ruleset, grab the free adventures from DA's website at http://www.digitaladventures.net/

sunbeam60
August 16th, 2006, 09:20
The result was 2 fulls, 1 lite, and the arcana evolved editions purchased.

Welcome to the party dude!

Thore_Ironrock
August 16th, 2006, 23:10
Now, if Kevin and the guys from fantasygrounds were doing that all gencon, I assure you all, they were pretty beat after that. I commend his outstanding patients and ambitious attitude after 4 days of demos. Thanks man, I cant wait to get my group started.

Thanks Axe! While a part of me (always) wishes that Gen Con would never end, my knees were glad it was only 4 days. I think I demo-ed FG more on Sunday than any other day, and the exhibit hall is actually open two less hours. Everyone we talked to about the software was completely impressed with what they saw, especially when it came to the dice and the fog of war.

Well ... there was one guy that turned up his nose and uttered a few unkind words at FG, but only because he couldn't run it on his four year old MAC. ;)

Thanks again Axe. Look for more Arcana Evolved stuff very soon ... and a big announcement in a related genre in the next month. :D

Auly
August 17th, 2006, 00:21
It was good seeing and talking to the Digital Adventures and the Smiteworks guys at Gen Con. Bought a full copy of FG there and the full SRD cd. Now I can't wait to get into a game.

Take Care
Auly

Azrael Nightstar
August 18th, 2006, 22:14
Gotta say it's really nice to see a thread that was quickly degenerating into a flamewar turn into a welcome of new users :) For those of you reading this and new to the boards, let me assure you the frustration level all around is WAY out of whack ;)

Speaking of frustration (not to get back into that mode, though) I think that's really what we're seeing there. A lot of the community is frustrated with the lack of updates, after 4 days of GenCon Thore was frustrated with the "when's 2.0?" routine, etc. Everyone's doing their best, but let's face it, when you have a vested interest in anything you want to get your nose into it as much as possible, and it's frustrating all around not to know EXACTLY what's going on, no matter how infeasible that may be.

I myself am a bit frustrated with the lack of updates, especially as someone who spends most of my time on the boards on helping out with support. But at the same time, I'm confident that the reason we don't hear an update from Smite that might take only 15 minutes to give us is that the devs would rather spend those 15 minutes getting that much closer to release, or perhaps meant to write one right after lunch, but lost track of time finishing the area of code they're working on and didn't get to it (or lunch for that matter, which I can relate to, and I'm sure I'm not the only one).

I also thought Thore's post sounded a bit condescending, but again, understood. I figured that was the least of his intentions, and that the stress factor probably played into the unintended tone (and going to a 4-day con will stress you enough, forget working one).

When several people's frustrations come to a head at once and stress and misunderstandings get tossed in the mix... there ya go. But, it sounds like we're due an update this week, and that ought to alleviate a lot of the user-end frustration. I'm also really hoping that we'll see more consistancy in community updates; again, we're really not looking for much, maybe a weekly, bi-weekly, or even monthly "we worked on the combat system and got it about halfway done, should be moving on to the chat system by a week from now". I think that'd be manageable, and would be plenty to keep the board from any hints of despair. Even if it was "we can't tell you what we worked on this week, but made a lot of progress".

The bottom line is really that everyone wants to know what's up because we love the program and are really looking forward to the upgrade. Everyone here wants the best for FG, whether user, developer or partner, and we need to bear that in mind when things get a bit frustrating. We all have different roles in the program's success, but the goal is the same. Try to keep that in mind, because better communication is in everyone's best interest, and will get us all where we want to get quickest, easiest, and with the least stress all around.

The FG community is by far the most helpful, civil, and intelligent online community I've ever been a part of, so... well done everyone. I'm not much for group hugs, but high-fives all around ;) And thanks to the devs and partners for their great products, to the resident gurus for their help and hard work, and to the rest of you for making this board interesting.

Oh, and I just can't resist...
Well ... there was one guy that turned up his nose and uttered a few unkind words at FG, but only because he couldn't run it on his four year old MAC.
What, no one was upset it wouldn't run on their cell phone?:p

Larac
August 28th, 2006, 07:02
Was searching for that update from a few weeks ago, I seem to not be able to find it.

The one covering the release of the new FG patch.

Can someone direct me to it.

Thanks
Lee

Larac
August 28th, 2006, 07:08
Glad to know how wrong I am.

Thanks for telling me.

Lee



You couldn't be more wrong.




Again, you could not be more wrong. I really don't understand why everone has to dip paranoia into all this.




From everything that Tero has told me, much of what they want to do will mean a redesign of a large part of FG. This often happens when a program evolves like FG has. I trust Tero and his dev team to do what is right; and anyone that has met and talked to him would feel the same way. I realize you have only my comments on this, but I'm sure others will chime in as well.




I have been told there will be no pay upgrades for the new version. That is what we told everyone the entire weekend.




Tero has told me that the way adventures work will not change. However, rulesets will to some extent. The good news is that SW will put out a comprehensive FAQ on what will need to be done if you have your own ruleset, and my team of developers will also be available to help out.

I hope that answers some of your questions.