Fantasy Grounds Extension Updater

[ScottUlmer]

Hey I think building an extension updater for FG would be a good idea. Is there any plans to include this in FGU? Will FGU even have extensions as an option?

If the answer is no, and then yes; I think it would be wise to start building the extension updater.

The basics of it would it would be a .exe that goes out to a website (probably git hub) and downloads any new extension updates. The program would also be able to display all of the extensions (that the developers have opted-in to use this) so people can read about it and download. With a few more columns of data people can have a link to the official page, report bugs, etc. There are a lot of really great extensions currently out there, but finding them is hard, and checking if they are updated is annoying (the best method is to subscribe to the thread, but most of that is noise.) Plus with a central hub, people can vote and talk about projects more. If anyone can give me hard details if FGU will not do this automatically and allow extensions I should be able to begin working on this project.

[LordEntrails]

This has been discussed before, on the forums and between one of the community developers and SmiteWorks. I can't tell you the plan for FGU, but for the current engine the answer is no, their is no plans for an extension updater. I'm not sure of the reasons, but I do know security and liability must have played a big part in the discussions (as it was part of the brief I proof read). You can also see a potential issues as with the recent withdrawal of bunch of extensions by one community developer and the challenges such would have caused had their been such a system.

I will add that I'm sure their will be community extensions in FGU, that accessibility has been mentioned that it will remain.

[dulux-oz]

What LordEntrails said - and check out the (now defunct) DOE:REMU - I already wrote what you're proposing (eight+ months ago) and *NOBODY* on the Dev-side took up the offer. The GitHib pages still exist, because I haben't finished bringing all of my Extensions back to the forums / my own website.

Its a good idea (it was when I came up with it 12 months ago) but in practice none of the Community Devs want to be part of it :(

[ScottUlmer]

Wow that is really unfortunate, thanks guys.

[Bidmaron]

Dulux, your solution required GitHub. That was the reason I didn't want to do it. The solution that needs to be developed should use the forums, so people don't have to create yet another account somewhere. Also, as I recall, your solution had a lot of problems because of the kludges you had to do to get it to work. I might be misremembering, but I remember the brave soul who tried to use it had many, many issues trying to get it to work. If I wasn't convinced before due to not wanting a GitHUB, that thread of trying to get it to work was enough to scare most of us off.

Don't get me wrong: I love your extensions, but the REMU was not the proper implementation, IMO.

[Atua]

I tried Dulux-Oz extension updater and there was a little setting up, but it did work

[Bidmaron]

Why did you quit using it? When he took it down, he said no one was using it.

[damned]

Why did you quit using it? When he took it down, he said no one was using it.

'No one" is a relative term.
"No one" meaning - the idea didnt take enough traction to continue investing the effort required in it.

[ScottUlmer]

"Hello again Scott and thanks for reaching out to us.

FGU will have extensions and we have mentioned on our Fantasy Grounds Fridays stream (every Friday at noon EST) that we are hoping to have them update automatically with the new patch system that is being built.


Happy Gaming and thanks for your support.

David Middleton
SmiteWorks USA, LLC"

[LordEntrails]

I was using it for my DOEs. But no other developers used it to distribute and update their extensions.

The biggest issue imo to using it was the tendency of people to right click - save as on the link rather than use the GitHub "Download" link. They would then get an html file and not the extension itself. But once you learned/figured that out it was simple to use.

[Atua]

Why did you quit using it? When he took it down, he said no one was using it.

Because he took it down

[dulux-oz]

When I took it down (the DOE:REMU) what I was trying to say (whether I said it well or not) was that none of the other Community Devs were using it to distribute their creations.

One of the issues with having any sort of Updater is how do you store the files you want to update. One of the "best" solutions to that problem is to use a single repository. You use a *single* repository so that there is no confusion about versions, etc, etc, etc. This is the solution that the vast majority of both large and small software producers have settled on - some have tried using distributed repositories but the general concensus is that they are more problem than solution. So, to use a *single* repository you need 24*7*365 access to a suitable server. Again, the vast majority of open source (and a hell of a lot of closed source) software have settled on the solution of using GitHub (with Bitbucket running a reasonably close second). The reason I choose GitHub is because its free, most people trust it, its "relatively" easy to work with, and its designed to do the job we were asking it to do i.e. be a repository. It was also something that SW didn't have to add to their already full work load (i.e. running and mainting a "public/community" repository server). The end-users didn't need a GitHub account to access the files stored there, and the fact that the Communith Devs did need an account to upload files (unless they asked another Community Dev to upload for them) is, IMNSHO, a trite reason not to use the service </rant>

The forums are *not* designed to be a repository and so don't work like one. Getting a computer program to grab Extensions, etc, from the "unstructured" layout of unspecified depths of Forum Threads with us NOT having access to the underlying workings of the Forum Server and Software is a *hard* problem - the very reason actualy *real* repository software was developed (ie Git, etc).

As for the DOE:REMU being a "hack" - yes, it was. It was a hack because SW have closed off the file manipulation routines inheriant in LUA and also closed off the external program calls in an effort to stop FG being used for nefarious purposes. I worked out a way around those restrictions (ie I "hacked" the code) but it required the use of a number of runtime customised batch files and an extrenal exe file to be installed on the users computer. These were the kludges that had to be used to get the Updater to run as an Internal FG process.

We could have used an external program that had *nothing* to do with the FG Client, but I can garuntee you that people would have complained about having "an external program that runs outside of FG. Why can't it be run from inside FG?" to which the answer is given above.

So that's some of the background. SW didn't/don't want to open up the FG-coding to allow a "clean" implementation of this, they didn't/don't want to have to run a Community repository, they didn't/don't want to allow the necessary access to the Forum internals, no-one wants to pay the costs of hosting a non-private repository, people want the solution to be integrated into the FG Client (ie an Extension), and so we're left with a "hack" solution that works but which is difficult to get running properly and which uses a public repository that apparently people find dificult to use because it requires a login from the Communith Devs who would place their creations there.

(Sorry if this sounds a bit combative, its not meant too. I just wanted to point out some of the issues that had to be considered when I put the DOE:REMU together - and after all the work and "hacking" I'm disappointed *NONE* of my fellow Community Devs took advantage of the effort and join in with using it - all some of them could do is critisize. Well, let's see if anyone can do any better.)

[Andraax]

I was actually going to use it for the moon tracker extension, but you shut it down before I could get it setup. BTW, I'm willing to run a repository for the files via one of my personal websites if using GitHub was the resistance...

[ScottUlmer]

Guys again FG just emailed me saying they are working on an extension updater for FGU.

[dulux-oz]

I was actually going to use it for the moon tracker extension, but you shut it down before I could get it setup. BTW, I'm willing to run a repository for the files via one of my personal websites if using GitHub was the resistance...

I personally don't belive that using GitHub was the main issue - it really was a "hack" to get it to work at all. I am very proud (or myself) for even being able to figure out how to get the FG-Engine to do it at all, but looking at the practicalities of it, unless SW wants to relax their security-coding-etc AND a significant number of my fellow Community Devs join in then its simply not worth it.

If people really, really want to use it and a significant number of the Community Devs come on board, then I'll reserect it (I still have the code, etc), but after 8+ months there was little interest shown , so I shut it down as a worthwhile experiement that had run its course.

But thanks for the offer - I've got my own Web Server I could have run it from, but I didn't want to give others write access to it (which is what GitHub/BitBucket allows us to do).

Cheers

[Bidmaron]

Guys again FG just emailed me saying they are working on an extension updater for FGU.
This is fantastic news!

[ddavison]

A community extension updater won't be an initial part of FGU but is something on our roadmap. It's not specifically targeted at extensions, but general community creations that will likely also work for all indie publications.

[ScottUlmer]

A community extension updater won't be an initial part of FGU but is something on our roadmap. It's not specifically targeted at extensions, but general community creations that will likely also work for all indie publications.

Hey that sounds great, I am excited thanks guys!

[Milmoor]

I just crawled through quite a few threads to update all of my extensions. One of them was misbehaving (error at launch of FG), but I didn't know which one. So I'm glad to hear that FGU will fix this one day.

[cdjensen99]

Hello, was this ever implemented, and if so how do I find it. I do not see it available.

The forge updates are great, I am looking for non-forge updates. Particularly those from the DMs Guild.

[Valyar]

Hello, was this ever implemented, and if so how do I find it. I do not see it available.

The forge updates are great, I am looking for non-forge updates. Particularly those from the DMs Guild.

No, it is not implemented. Everything outside of the forge is manual.

[LordEntrails]

Hello, was this ever implemented, and if so how do I find it. I do not see it available.

The forge updates are great, I am looking for non-forge updates. Particularly those from the DMs Guild.
I'm not sure, at one point there were a couple efforts in this direction. The only one that I think might still be supported is one from Rob2e and/or Mad Nomad. But I can't find it at the moment so maybe it is no more.

[Nick Frost]

The only one that I think might still be supported is one from Rob2e and/or Mad Nomad. But I can't find it at the moment so maybe it is no more.

It's here, still being maintained; https://forge.fantasygrounds.com/shop/items/675/view

It's also the only instance I know of auto-updates for material outside of The Forge.

[cdjensen99]

That is a Module updater not an extension updater.