View Full Version : Jumping in to DM: FG vs D&D Beyond - Content
GrayMouser
December 23rd, 2018, 17:17
Common question here - looking to DM with 5E after 30 years on from playing AD&D. Wanting to buy online compendiums and adventures only one time. I have ALL the hard bound books from WOTC for DND 5E.
Recently signed into play in a D&D Beyond campaign as a character and will start that this coming Friday. Really liked the flow of building the character and the mechanics of the character sheet, as well as online access from the DM for all materials, Rules and Adventures. Makes it really easy and slick for iPad use and leaving books on the bookshelf. The click through “help” and explanations for EVERYTHING is awesome. Hyperlinks to anything you wish to look up or review. A players dream. Suspect it is the same for the DM.
Have watched many FG YouTube videos and really like the tool as depicted. Player sheets and battle sheets appear to make playing and DMing easy. Parcels look cool. Like the whole look and feel of it. Appears to be an outstanding DM tool, no doubt.
We will be playing face to face rather than VTT, more likely than not....certainly to start.
As DM, I will need to purchase materials in either tool and I only want to purchase them one time.
Now stuck as to whether I go DND Beyond or FG.
LordEntrails
December 23rd, 2018, 17:42
Well, not sure you are actually asking a question, but I'm guessing you're looking for opinions on which one to invest in?
Here's my opinion; I've looked into and explored DDB some, but had already been using FG, so:
I like the concept of DDB. But, if its one or the other, then FG gets me more than the DDB does. Both have the text of the products in them, both have ways to build characters using the content you own.
My impression of DDB:
- excels at character generation
- excels as a reference source for lookup
- Not sure the off-line tool has reached maturity (or availability yet)
As for FG,
- it has character generation (not a full fledged character manager, but works well for how I use it)
- it works well as a reference source for lookup
- it has a combat tracker that excels at simplifying combat book keeping
- it has the ability to manage an unlimited number of campaigns
- I can make homebrew content easily, I can share it with anyone I want, I can even sell it on the FG store or on the DMsGuild
- Everything is stored on my computer, so the content I own and have created is never at risk of being revoked
- it has maps and images that I can share (and mask) as desired
- it has an excellent community that is unsurpassed for friendliness and mutual support
- it has a company that is ethical and supportive of its community and takes a customer first view and has proven themselves repeatable through the years
- it provides a campaign environment that matches how I run RPGs, with things like parcels, encounters, stories, images, etc.
So, in short, though DDB does some things better than FG, and might even do a few minor things that FG does; FG does much more than DDB does and allows me to run complete games digitally and handles everything but voice/audio whether I am running a game with people all over the world, or they are all sitting around my game table.
Targas
December 23rd, 2018, 17:43
I think I cannot help much. Let me try.. Fantasy Grounds is running on Windows. Using Wine, it can run on iMac, and as far as I know it can run on Linux,but both not native. FGU might change that, but for now it‘s Windows based. As such it won‘t run on an iPad. You might run it on a Windows PC and remotely connect through it using an IPad, but I have never tried that.
Fantasy Grounds alone is just the engine. When you buy the D&D5E content, you buy the mechanics/automation as well. Something D&D Beyond will probably not give you.
In my case using the VTT, I usually own the physical core books, the PDF‘s in english, the PDF’s in german and the FG ruleset as well (tell me how expensive _that_ is). Adventures I found out I‘ll be better of converting myself in most cases.
In your situation I would use DND Beyond, if you don‘t play VTT at all. Others can probably shed more light on this.
GrayMouser
December 23rd, 2018, 18:38
This was helpful. Thank you. Much similar to the conclusion I am coming to as well.
GrayMouser
December 23rd, 2018, 18:41
Thank you. This was helpful as well as I will be running on MAC Book Pro hardware.
No harm in testing everything, in any event! Will likely give the FG download a go and see how it works out. If it is cool, I will be investing in the rules and adventures on FG!
damned
December 23rd, 2018, 21:51
My thoughts are if you are not using the VTT features you would probably find DNDB easier for just reading and referencing.
If you are going to use it to play (and lots of groups do use FG to play face to face) then FG is a better option.
Bidmaron
December 24th, 2018, 01:01
Since your goal is to only invest in materials once, you should consider that most groups eventually face the day when a member has to quit or you have to do at least a partial over-the-internet game. After the fiasco of the 4th edition Real-time RPG WotC tried to do, I doubt they will have even a decent VTT in the next decade.
Also, if you ever decide to play something besides D&D, you won't be able to do that with WotC.
GrayMouser
December 24th, 2018, 01:21
Fair points. Thanks!
GrayMouser
December 24th, 2018, 01:22
Yeah, my intent is to use FG to assist me with DMing, regardless of VTT or online use.
Myrdin Potter
December 24th, 2018, 17:43
I have been running Dungeon of the Mad Mage at my local store using D&D Beyond. As a book replacement, it is better than FG. To actually run a game, FG is better for me, but I do not want to lug a 40" screen to the store every Sunday and I like using my 3d printed terrain anyways for in person games.
I can tell you that I use the printed map pack and that D&D Beyond is lacking anything like pins on the maps to jump to the text, so it involves scrolling. I have all the books, so the monsters are just a click away in both systems for me. The real help is that it replaces a stack of books and the character builder is far better than FG. It is 5e only, though.
I run two games a week via the internet on Fantasy Grounds and FG allowed me to get my friends that played with me 40 years ago back and playing. There also is a good AD&D ruleset available for FG, so that is an option as well.
Funny enough, I have a twitch employee at my AL table and every time I find a D&D Beyond bug he reports it to the Curse team. That will fall away with the recent sale of D&D Beyond, though.
GrayMouser
December 24th, 2018, 18:38
I have been running Dungeon of the Mad Mage at my local store using D&D Beyond. As a book replacement, it is better than FG. To actually run a game, FG is better for me, but I do not want to lug a 40" screen to the store every Sunday and I like using my 3d printed terrain anyways for in person games.
I can tell you that I use the printed map pack and that D&D Beyond is lacking anything like pins on the maps to jump to the text, so it involves scrolling. I have all the books, so the monsters are just a click away in both systems for me. The real help is that it replaces a stack of books and the character builder is far better than FG. It is 5e only, though.
I run two games a week via the internet on Fantasy Grounds and FG allowed me to get my friends that played with me 40 years ago back and playing. There also is a good AD&D ruleset available for FG, so that is an option as well.
Funny enough, I have a twitch employee at my AL table and every time I find a D&D Beyond bug he reports it to the Curse team. That will fall away with the recent sale of D&D Beyond, though.
Thank you! I am quickly getting to the conclusion that both are useful and have their place. Do you, then, have copies of electronic media licensed with both apps? It seems you do, if I understood your reply.
FG appears awesome as a DM tool and for running games all around. But, I do like D&D Beyond character generator and the way things are hyperlinked and connected.
I have been pondering running Webex or Zoom with video and screen sharing backed by D&D Beyond as an alternative to face to face playing. But FG battle sheets, party sheets, and parcels look like they make all the admin and accounting automated, which really appeals to me.
We have yet to determine as a group if we want F2F, mobile/remote, or VTT as our medium to play. Thus, my quandary at the moment.
But, it is beginning to look like I may be purchasing both and duplicating books.....
GrayMouser
December 24th, 2018, 19:44
So, it appears to me that D&D Beyond is useful as an online, mobile book repository as well as a good character generator and a way to aggregate a group of characters under the guise of a campaign. But, you will have to manually run your campaign and manually adjust your character sheet as play proceeds. It is not clear to me that D&D Beyond has any utility in the actual running of the campaign beyond simple manual character sheet manipulation.
Based on what I have seen of FG online, FG is a VTT in full with most everything automated for the DM. It can be used simply as a DM tool outside of a VTT as well. It's primary drawback at the moment is it is not web-based and, thus, mobile. It can be used to run games in person or online and remotely distributed.
I am sure those are both oversimplifications and there is plenty omitted. But, for my purposes, it is how I am characterizing them for now.
Targas
December 24th, 2018, 20:08
In essence, yes. If you search through the forum, some even use a big TV tabletop like, where all players can sit around, roll dice maually and still have nice maps, combat automated, if they like, etc. I would use a glass table with beamer instead...
ddavison
December 25th, 2018, 00:36
You can do a full trial of Fantasy Grounds if you want for 30 days and then return it for a full refund if you decide that you like DNDBeyond better for your needs. That will allow you to benefit the most from the current discounted sale prices and bundles.
Myrdin Potter
December 25th, 2018, 02:40
FG is mobile. I run games on my laptop when traveling all the time. It is not in iOS or Android so no tablets or phones, but works fine on a laptop.
D&D Beyond is not even close to a VTT, it is just the books in electronic form.
I have the books on each and each has its role.
iotech
December 25th, 2018, 07:05
That will fall away with the recent sale of D&D Beyond, though.
Say what now? I hadnt heard this... I abandoned even trying DDB due to it requiring a Twitch login... like sites that force me to login via Facebook; no thanks.
Who bought DDB? Is there hope of getting it separated from Twitch/Curse?
mattekure
December 25th, 2018, 20:52
Say what now? I hadnt heard this... I abandoned even trying DDB due to it requiring a Twitch login... like sites that force me to login via Facebook; no thanks.
Who bought DDB? Is there hope of getting it separated from Twitch/Curse?
They announced they would be allowing non-twitch logins during 2019.
bought by fandom https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/news-announcements/29976-curse-media-and-fandom-are-joining-forces
iotech
December 25th, 2018, 23:40
They announced they would be allowing non-twitch logins during 2019.
bought by fandom https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/news-announcements/29976-curse-media-and-fandom-are-joining-forces
*groan*
treefallingquietly
December 26th, 2018, 22:05
This is not what I expected tbh. I always thought DDB was going to migrate into the WoTC VTT to bring all the forms of the game under one roof. I am still waiting to see who wins the the VTT wars. Roll20 or FG. I tried Roll20 after FG and was totally disgusted. I think FG is the better solution but I have seen, in my life, the better product not win the race.
I think FG needs to approach WoTC now that they have a solid product. Let WoTC license the engine for their games.
LordEntrails
December 26th, 2018, 22:15
I think FG needs to approach WoTC now that they have a solid product. Let WoTC license the engine for their games.
FG has a license from WotC... So does Roll20 and I think one of the other VTTs (though I don't think they ever did much with it, and I can't remember who it was/is). Not sure what other type of license you are thinking of.
As for DDB, I never got the impression they were ever thinking of becoming a VTT. At least nothing more than as a fancy/dream. They still have a lot of maturing to do on their current platform and just doing the core things they want to do, before they start competing with the VTTs.
Note, FG had a license from WotC something like 2 years before DDB even existed. I think the license was granted in February 2015? I know it was before my time with FG (because at the time I joined it was the only licensed digital content).
treefallingquietly
December 26th, 2018, 23:19
I am talking about a reverse license now. Sell WoTC the code for them to use as their own platform for VTT. Now that its proven and full function. The main issue against this is FG supports all game platforms, not just D&D. WoTC don't care about the competition.
mattekure
December 26th, 2018, 23:43
I am talking about a reverse license now. Sell WoTC the code for them to use as their own platform for VTT. Now that its proven and full function. The main issue against this is FG supports all game platforms, not just D&D. WoTC don't care about the competition.
I think WoTC learned to stay away from trying to own/develop their own VTT. they tried somewhat with 4th edition and it suffered and failed. It really doesnt fit their business model too. WoTC makes money by selling books. Everything they do is about trying to make more revenue off of that publishing business. Fantasy Grounds is a VTT, which support far more systems than D&D. It doesnt make sense to limit itself. WoTC is not likely to want to keep supporting pathfinder, or other gaming systems which would be bad for everyone so its best they let the VTT professionals continue to give us a great product, and they can continue to focus on giving a great game system for us to play.
treefallingquietly
December 26th, 2018, 23:50
Agreed. I hope FG wins the VTT war. At least it has the most content of all the digital stuff.
I listen to a ton of podcasts who use Roll20. None on FG. I was also disappointed to see no FG during the dragon heist live event.
mattekure
December 26th, 2018, 23:56
Agreed. I hope FG wins the VTT war. At least it has the most content of all the digital stuff.
I listen to a ton of podcasts who use Roll20. None on FG. I was also disappointed to see no FG during the dragon heist live event.
If my experience is any indication, it will always do well. I spent years using MapTool which was great and free, but it got to be too much for me to maintain with no official support. I also tried R20 and left fairly quickly. It took all of 1 session with FG for me to convert over. My prep time dropped by at least 90%, and running the game was such a breeze. For many years, my gaming group had named the campaign "Technical Difficulties" because it seemed like every time we played, we encountered some kind of technical glitch with Maptool/R20. Since we began using FG this past year, I can count on one hand the number of glitches we've encountered, and nearly all of those due to extensions I had enabled.
LordEntrails
December 27th, 2018, 00:14
Agreed. I hope FG wins the VTT war. At least it has the most content of all the digital stuff.
I listen to a ton of podcasts who use Roll20. None on FG. I was also disappointed to see no FG during the dragon heist live event.
I was disappointed not to see FG used on any of the last two WotC streaming events too. But, you will find that several of the more significant streamers (at least from my understanding) have switched from Roll20 to FG in the last year or so. Many started with Roll20 (because its free), but either because of limitations of the platform, or because of business difficulties with the Orr Group have since switched to FG, which according to them is not only the more capable platform, but SmiteWorks is a much more welcoming business to be associated with.
I'm sure a few of the folks here can point you to specific streams if desired.
damned
December 27th, 2018, 00:15
There is room for more than one VTT.
At least 3 pr 4 new VTTs start every year. Most dont continue but many have great ideas and concepts.
I dont think there is great value in the Wizards buying out FG or doing their own.
They get well paid as it is from both FG and Roll20 and have to do almost no additional work for it.
Three of Swords
December 27th, 2018, 02:27
You should be hoping that there is no 'winner' in the VTT wars. Competition is good for the consumer. Otherwise products get stale and expensive (see Intel when AMD wasn't really a competitor).
damned
December 27th, 2018, 03:05
You should be hoping that there is no 'winner' in the VTT wars. Competition is good for the consumer. Otherwise products get stale and expensive (see Intel when AMD wasn't really a competitor).
AMD? ARM is coming to get Intel...
treefallingquietly
December 27th, 2018, 03:56
You should be hoping that there is no 'winner' in the VTT wars. Competition is good for the consumer. Otherwise products get stale and expensive (see Intel when AMD wasn't really a competitor).
But I grew up in a world of VHS or Beta
Laserdisc or DVD
DOS or whoever it was going to be (Some unix derivative, although DOS was based on Unix)
The better technology didn't always win.
GavinRuneblade
December 28th, 2018, 07:59
But I grew up in a world of VHS or Beta
Laserdisc or DVD
DOS or whoever it was going to be (Some unix derivative, although DOS was based on Unix)
The better technology didn't always win.
His point is that anyone winning is always bad, even if the "better product" wins. The ideal situation is that the competition never ends.
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