Savage Settings - Edges and Hindrances - A discussion

[Doswelk]

I was forwarded an email today by Smiteworks, the person was complaining that the Hellfrost Bestiary required the Hellfrost Player's Guide to know what some of the Edges did.

I checked the back of the Physical book and this fact is made clear, I checked the store page here (and steam) and that line is missing, I expect this will be rectified by Smiteworks. I can clearly understand the annoyance the buyer must have felt at this.

But this got me thinking... Any Savage Worlds setting book will require other books in the setting (except of course the actual original setting book), as EVERY Savage Worlds setting adds its own Edges and Hindrances, it does not stop you using the product just not knowing what that particular edge is.

I have not bought a book for a setting without getting the original setting book first but if I did I would not be surprised that there were Edges and/or Hindrances unique to that setting in the book.

What are your views on this?

Has anyone bought a book for a setting they did not have the rule book for?

I personally buy a lot of 5E and Pathfinder PDFs to Savage them for my game sessions, but I do own the Pathfinder and 5e rulebooks.

I'll stop typing rubbish now....

[Talyn]

Bottom line is the data needs to be somewhere and duplicating the data would be inefficient, among other things. The missing line needs to be added to the Store page, sure.

Like you, not sure why someone would buy a bestiary for a setting without having that setting, but who knows what was going on.

[esmdev]

One of the things that I don't really like about 5E is that everything is duplicated over and over and over again. If you have the PHB, DMG and SCA loaded you'll have like 2-3 copies of every inventory item. I get how that is not really something that can be filtered and you can't just assume that someone has all of the above. It's the same with classes, while the sub-classes are different it necessitates having multiple versions of each class every time a new sub-class is added.

Anyways, my thinking on the whole subject of edges and hindrances is they are better in the original source module and not replicated everywhere. Plus it seems like having the player's guide is sort of a necessity unless you are just using the bestiary for some other setting.

As for settings, nope. If I buy a setting I generally go all in. After watching the Saving's Throw people running ETU for the kickstarter I bought Savage World, ETU and the plot point module. It seemed the logical way to go.

Not sure how much effort it would be but maybe instead of referencing an edge could you just build the edge effect into the creature in question or is it a lot of creatures and way to much work?

[esmdev]

Like you, not sure why someone would buy a bestiary for a setting without having that setting, but who knows what was going on.

My assumption is that they are using material with a different setting or just the core rules...

[JohnD]

Personally I think the issue here is that there is/was no FYI prior to purchasing that content references another product's content, so it comes as a surprise after the fact. If notice is added to the product description, some will still miss it but that's a good way to allow someone who actually reads before they click to make an informed decision (and/or post questions about it in the forums or on Discord).

[Talyn]

The person identified himself (he's own of our own, the clown!) and stated the end goal was simply to get QA to add the missing line to the store page that the Hellfrost setting is required to use the bestiary. The PDF flatly states it but the FG store page does not.

[Doswelk]

I quite agree that the line should be there, was not trying to excuse that, but was curious of the wider thoughts about this in general.

[damned]

One of the things that I don't really like about 5E is that everything is duplicated over and over and over again. If you have the PHB, DMG and SCA loaded you'll have like 2-3 copies of every inventory item. I get how that is not really something that can be filtered and you can't just assume that someone has all of the above. It's the same with classes, while the sub-classes are different it necessitates having multiple versions of each class every time a new sub-class is added.

This is because of the additional character build automation in 5E.
When you add different features, skills etc to a 5E class you cant shoe-horn them in you have to add them with the class.

[esmdev]

This is because of the additional character build automation in 5E.
When you add different features, skills etc to a 5E class you cant shoe-horn them in you have to add them with the class.

Yeah, I know why it does that. I was just giving that as an example of why I think that repeating an edge or hindrance would add lots of unnecessary clutter. :)

[Trenloe]

I quite agree that the line should be there, was not trying to excuse that, but was curious of the wider thoughts about this in general.
I don’t think that FG developers should start to go down the slippery slope of including data from other products - even if the products are closely related.

Provide a link to the relevant record (wildcard if needed, so people can create their own module with linked data if they like).

And then make sure the store description is accurate and appropriate. This is one thing FG developers should also be a bit more proactive about - checking that the store description is accurate for the product delivered, with any FG specific info added to the (usual, but not in this case apparently) blanket copy/paste of the original product description (amended as necessary).

[Erolat]

As a GM that runs most of my games live having all the Hindrances/Edges in one source is something I really like. I am currently running Hell on Earth and the need to reference three sources (core book, setting book, setting companion) to make a character has proven rather frustrating. I finally gave up and copy/pasted a text document with all the HoE stuff. This way I can just had a player the core book and my printout and they have all they need.

As for the OP, I have picked up books from other settings without the main setting book. Usually it is for the critters or story ideas but I plan on putting them into a different setting. (Maybe home brew, maybe published.) When I do this though any setting specific rules I either ignore or, more often, adapt to the setting it will be used in. The best example of this is the Rippers adventure Death on Dartmoor that I put into my HoE campaign. Several points are all about the Night Guard trying to get loot, instead I made it the Doombringers and it worked rather well. I just have to be aware of the fact that I may not have critical details and will need to work around them.

(Side note: I have picked up the Rippers setting now and really want to play in it.)

[Trenloe]

As a GM that runs most of my games live having all the Hindrances/Edges in one source is something I really like. I am currently running Hell on Earth and the need to reference three sources (core book, setting book, setting companion) to make a character has proven rather frustrating.
Open those 3 modules in the campaign then use the sidebar Edges and Hindrances buttons to display a list of all of the relevant records. This is what those sidebar buttons are designed for - to give direct access to all of the records available in the campaign. You can filter them by source, rank or a few letters from the name.

Accessing records from the library is specifically designed to give you just the records in the specific product you're accessing.

In this case ("having all the Hindrances/Edges in one source") is achievable - if you use the desktop sidebar buttons. Access them and turn them on/off from the top of the library window if they're not currently available in the sidebar.

[Talyn]

In addition, there's a "new" [By Type] button on the master Edges window (which none of us were told about LOL, so only the SWD Players Guide is currently working with it) which groups every edge in the master window by its type "Background Edge, Combat Edge," and so forth.

I'm in the process of updating Lankhmar and Deadlands Noir to support this; the other DLC Developers will jump on theirs ASAP.

[Erolat]

Open those 3 modules in the campaign then use the sidebar Edges and Hindrances buttons to display a list of all of the relevant records. This is what those sidebar buttons are designed for - to give direct access to all of the records available in the campaign. You can filter them by source, rank or a few letters from the name.

Accessing records from the library is specifically designed to give you just the records in the specific product you're accessing.

In this case ("having all the Hindrances/Edges in one source") is achievable - if you use the desktop sidebar buttons. Access them and turn them on/off from the top of the library window if they're not currently available in the sidebar.

Oh, I know how to do it in FG. But like I said I end up running most of my games... Hmmm. I said "live" and that might have been the confusion. I meant "in person", as in at my local store as opposed to on-line.

[Talyn]

I had a feeling that's what you actually meant, but "just in case..." :)

[Trenloe]

Oh, I know how to do it in FG. But like I said I end up running most of my games... Hmmm. I said "live" and that might have been the confusion. I meant "in person", as in at my local store as opposed to on-line.
Simple solution. Buy the products on FG and take FG with you on a laptop! :D