Savage Worlds Adventure Edition - Development Plan and Update

[ddavison]

Ikael (our community developer) has taken this on his plate along with managing the Savage Worlds line.

Per Ikael:

Here is our plan:

Existing SavageWorlds ruleset would be further developed to be SWADE and a new layered ruleset SWD would be created
The new SWD ruleset would layer on top of SavageWorlds (SWADE) and would offer changes to backward-grade it to Deluxe edition.


Generally it is much easier to provide backward-graded ruleset than try to build new rules on top of previous. This allows Deluxe to get all new features that are developed for the baseline-ruleset.

And the plan about purchasable products,


Existing DGASW3 product would provide following content:
SavageWorlds ruleset (SWADE rules!)
SWD ruleset (Deluxe rules)
swdeluxe_gm module (accessible only from SWD ruleset)
swdeluxe_pg module (accessible only from SWD ruleset)


So yes, existing customers would get SWADE ruleset for free, however...

new purchasable SWADE product would provide following content:

SavageWorlds ruleset (SWADE rules!)
swade_gm module (accessible from SavageWorlds ruleset)
swade_pg module (accessible from SavageWorlds ruleset)
The new purchasable product would provide new FG modules for $10, like what you would have to do by getting PDFs. It may include an updated ruleset theme (undecided still) as an extension.

[Skellan]

Very exciting

[Razortide]

Thank you! Is there some timeline available? Nothing sharp but something like "Until christmas" (presents!) or "Until Q1/19) would be VERY helpful.

[Moon Wizard]

No timeline yet. The Kickstarter hasn't even finished yet; and it does take time for development. I'm sure that Ikael will provide more details when he has something to share.

Regards,
JPG

[Razortide]

Hello JPG,
as a trusted partner, I am sure you guys already have at least a final draft or something :)

[esmdev]

So if I understand what you are saying, the Savage World ruleset that I just purchased will be upgraded for free. Yay, didn't expect that, thanks.

On the other hand the ETU setting and module will need to be upgraded for $10 total, or $10 per module?

In addition it probably will be awhile and I shouldn't hold my breath. Seems like the physical for the new edition aren't due to mid-2019 so would that be an estimate on the time or longer, or less?

[Talyn]

Until I hear otherwise, the current plan has been for the SWADE ruleset to automatically work with the existing SWD DLC, of which there are many, obviously.

As for timeline, last I spoke with Ikael, he estimated it would take a month-ish or so to do the coding once he receives the final manuscript. To date, Wizards of the Coast is the only publisher that has signed up for a Same Day Release program, so unless that changes with Pinnacle overall, or an exception just in this one case, I would plan for roughly a month or so after the books ship next year.

[zarlor]

Pinnacle will likely have their "finalized" version fully available in PDF before physical books ship. At least that's the way they've often done their Kickstarted products in the past. In fact it's not uncommon for them to release an initial pdf to backers once they have an internally edited version completed (what would normally have been the finalized version they send to the printers) and then many backers will hammer their way through the book and post (usually to a thread Pinnacle starts for that purpose) to gather all of the now crowd-sourced editors out there to fix any missed errors or potential clarifications that might be needed. Then maybe a couple of months after that initial release they'll then release the truly finalized version which will be the one they are sending to the printers. So backers will have that version well before the print release.

So while the Kickstarter itself lists a June 2019 delivery date that will be for physical product, but for digital their stated Jan 2019 date is likely to be far more correct and that should probably be the version Ikael will base his final code release on. Arguably he may well be able to start sooner with that initial pdf that goes to backers maybe, possibly (definitely-don't-hold-me-to-it-and-I-don't-work-or-speak-for-Pinnacle) in December. Or he might hold off but largely I would expect that initial release they usually send out is pretty good. That's strictly conjecture based on how their other Kickstarters have gone, mind you.

Based on that my guess is that Ikael will be able to start his side of things around December or January at the latest. I have no idea how long it will take him to get all of it set up for release to Test, let alone when the finalized FG release will be. Ikael has proven to be crazy good and quick, though, so I have high hopes there. Maybe even as early as a February or March release? I'll have my fingers crossed but that's all just a guess on my part for a possible timeline.

[Moon Wizard]

Let's not set an expectation on timeline too soon. There are a lot of moving parts, including Ikael's personal schedule, Pinnacle's schedule and Smitework's schedule. Plus, since Ikael is looking at trying to get previous DLC to work with SWADE, I assume there will be some data updates needed for many existing SW DLC products. As I was saying, let's wait until Ikael has enough data that he feels comfortable providing more information on timing.

Regards,
JPG

[Doswelk]

Until I hear otherwise, the current plan has been for the SWADE ruleset to automatically work with the existing SWD DLC, of which there are many, obviously.

As for timeline, last I spoke with Ikael, he estimated it would take a month-ish or so to do the coding once he receives the final manuscript....

Having had a discussion with Ikael after our game session on Tuesday, we were discussing the problems the changes to the chase rules would cause, I would not assume any timescale can be set in stone BEFORE the final ruleset is released.

[mac40k]

So if I understand what you are saying, the Savage World ruleset that I just purchased will be upgraded for free. Yay, didn't expect that, thanks.

On the other hand the ETU setting and module will need to be upgraded for $10 total, or $10 per module?

In addition it probably will be awhile and I shouldn't hold my breath. Seems like the physical for the new edition aren't due to mid-2019 so would that be an estimate on the time or longer, or less?

I don’t read the announcement that way at all. My take is that existing users will get a ruleset update that enables you to take advantage of the changes SWADE will make, but will still contain the full SWD ruleset, including the GM and PG.

If however, you want the FG version of the new SWADE GM and PG, that will be a $10 fee, the equivalent to buying SWADE in pdf vs. print.

In either case, any existing content will work just like it does today with the existing SWD ruleset, but if you want to use it with SWADE (either version) you will most likely need to rely on conversion notes/material supplied by PEG and/or the 3rd party setting creator, just as you would at a physical table and in much the same way that Deadlands Reloaded doesn’t have Guts available as a skill since it was created before SWD did away with Guts as a core rule (so NPCs still have Guts, but the GM has to add Guts to a custom module for drag and drop, or have the players manually type it in on the character sheet).

As new settings/products are developed that use SWADE as their baseline ruleset, it looks like you will be able to use them with either the existing or the new ruleset; however, any rules that refer you back to SWADE (page references for example) will leave you in a similar position as trying to play in The Last Parsec setting without owning the Science Fiction Companion in FG. You can do it, it’s just easier if you have it.

I wouldn’t hold my breath on existing settings such as ETU getting upgraded to SWADE as I don’t think even PEG intends to do that. So far, they’ve only indicated that Deadlands Reloaded and some of the Companions will be updated anytime in the foreseeable future.

[ddavison]

@esmdev, mac40K did a pretty good summary.

[Ikael]

mac40k's summary was correct.

There will be new store product for SWADE which will cost the same as SWADE PDF rulebook and has to be purchased separately. The new product will give you full SWADE experience, ie. the ruleset and new core rulebook modules (GM and PG). The SWADE ruleset is also provided for Savage Worlds Deluxe product owners for free. What existing Deluxe product owners won't get for free are the new core rulebook modules. This allows existing Savage Worlds Deluxe owners, who doesn't want to purchase the update, to use the SWADE ruleset and work out rulebook module changes themselves.

In practise there will be two Savage Worlds rulesets: SWD which represents Savage Worlds Deluxe functionality and existing SavageWorlds which is updated to represent SWADE rules. Existing SavageWorlds campaigns will have option to upgrade campaign to SWADE rules which would apply data migration but you can also keep using Deluxe rules with SWD ruleset. New campaigns can decide to be either SWD or SWADE based by selecting corresponding ruleset.

All existing modules such as settings and adventures will be usable with both rulesets.

It is also important to note that SWD ruleset is not going to be abandoned, instead it will be maintained and updated along with SavageWorlds ruleset. This is achieved with ruleset layering (SWD will layer on top of SavageWorlds ruleset).

Regarding SWADE ruleset development, the work has already started and my work effort estimation for it is about 2 months. However note that this is not in calendar time, but overall time required to do everything regarding it. At this stage I cannot provide estimates when it will be complete because I am very busy with personal life and have little time to invest for SWADE development. Remember that I am community developer, with actual daily work and family to take care of. However because the SWADE ruleset is provided for existing Deluxe product owners I have plans to arrange public alpha and beta testing for the new ruleset. The public ruleset testing will start when ruleset has been developed to certain point (alpha stage) and PEG has released SWADE rulebook PDF for stores.

I will let everyone more details when development has progressed further!

[Talyn]

So wait... the "SavageWorlds" ruleset will be upgraded to SWADE but still keep the clunky old library pages SWD GM Guide and Player Guides, which don't feature the actual SWADE rules the new ruleset features? I fail to see the logic behind that.

Wouldn't it make more sense to just make the layered SWD ruleset $10 and that includes the SWD books? Then the SWADE ruleset could have the SWADE books, and everyone is happy.

[Valyar]

I didn’t get anything with those abbreviations and the difference between the various rulesets, that I wasn’t aware that exist for Savage Worlds...

[Ikael]

So wait... the "SavageWorlds" ruleset will be upgraded to SWADE but still keep the clunky old library pages SWD GM Guide and Player Guides, which don't feature the actual SWADE rules the new ruleset features? I fail to see the logic behind that.

Wouldn't it make more sense to just make the layered SWD ruleset $10 and that includes the SWD books? Then the SWADE ruleset could have the SWADE books, and everyone is happy.

SWADE store product will contain the newest ruleset and new SWADE rulebook modules.

Existing Savage Worlds Deluxe owners will get the SWADE ruleset (without new rulebook modules) in addition to what the already have: Ruleset and Deluxe GM and PG modules. The difference is that the existing ruleset SavageWorlds which currently represents Deluxe rules, is going to be updated to represent SWADE rules. The reason for this is that it is much easier for all users to know that SavageWorlds ruleset is always representing the most recent rules. If you want to use previous ruleset you use SWD.

Technical reason behind this is that SavageWorlds ruleset is the top notch developed ruleset with all the new bells, whistles and features (not necessary rules related). SWD ruleset is layering on top of it to gain benefit of all the new features, but it will also make sure what it represents Deluxe rules.

[Talyn]

Ooooookay...? I still don't get it. All the current ruleset owners get a free, awesome upgrade to the brand new mechanics and systems of SWADE but no actual in-FG books that inform us about these new mechanics and systems? Then it sounds like it's another $10 for a second copy of the same ruleset the updater just installed, and only that one has the new books that inform us of the SWADE rules.

I don't get it.

I still think having a separate layered SWD 'downgrade' ruleset + SWD books makes more sense to get the most value out of that $10.

[Moon Wizard]

It's a way to allow people to keep running the SWD rules; without requiring a whole bunch of work from Ikael to keep two completely separate rulesets up to date and compatible with multiple DLC. With this approach, the SWD ruleset inherits all the main ruleset code and DLC support, and only needs to change specific rules and sheets to match SWD needs.

Basically, SWADE is going to be sold separately no matter what; but this provides the best all-around support for both new and existing SW users, while at the same time minimizing the long-term development cost of both products. Believe me, Ikael considered a lot of options (and got input from Doug and I), and this was the best balance of end user support and development expense.

If existing SWD owners want to just keep playing SWD without worrying about SWADE, then they can.

Regards,
JPG

[Talyn]

So where does the secondary SWD ruleset come in? Is it included in the SavageWorlds ruleset to enable switching between rules? Then only the separately purchased SWADE ruleset comes with the actual SWADE books?

[Ikael]

Like mentioned, there will be two separate products with following content

Savage Worlds Deluxe Edition (what you can already get from the store)


SavageWorlds ruleset
SWD ruleset
SWD GM module
SWD PG module


Savage Worlds Adventure Edition (upcoming new store item)

SavageWorlds ruleset
SWADE GM module
SWADE PG module
SWADE Theme (not decided/designed yet)


Technically speaking SWD ruleset is dependent on SavageWorlds ruleset because it layers on top of it. Because of this Savage Worlds Deluxe Edition store item will provide it. Basically the same baseline ruleset (SavageWorlds) is provided by both store items for technical reasons. If you want to get full experience of SWADE recommendation is to purchase the new store item.

[mac40k]

So where does the secondary SWD ruleset come in? Is it included in the SavageWorlds ruleset to enable switching between rules? Then only the separately purchased SWADE ruleset comes with the actual SWADE books?


So basically, if you already own the SavageWorlds ruleset in FG and buy SWADE in print or pdf (or heck, even just make do with the rules changes stuff PEG will make available for free), you will be able to play anything using SWADE in a similar manner as you can currently play say 50 Fathoms in FG without purchasing the FG product from the FG store. If you want the SWADE reference books in FG, then you will need to pay a small fee to acquire them. If you are an existing owner, it probably boils down to how much you use the reference material within FG during a game. I've been playing Savage Worlds on FG for a long time. I run settings all the time that don't have an official FG product available. The ruleset is far more mature now then when I first starting using it 10 years ago, but old habits die hard. I generally refer to the books offline (pdfs on my iPad these days) rather than in FG while playing or GM'ing (screen real estate is already the biggest challenge when playing in FG and I don't need to clutter it up with another window when I can easily reference the material elsewhere). I've already backed the Kickstarter for SWADE and from everything I'm hearing I wouldn't need to purchase the SWADE ruleset from FG. I will do so to support FG and Ikael because I think $10 is a small price to pay for the incredible gift they are giving us.

[Valyar]

Like mentioned, there will be two separate products with following content

Savage Worlds Deluxe Edition (what you can already get from the store)


SavageWorlds ruleset
SWD ruleset
SWD GM module
SWD PG module


Savage Worlds Adventure Edition (upcoming new store item)

SavageWorlds ruleset
SWADE GM module
SWADE PG module
SWADE Theme (not decided/designed yet)


Technically speaking SWD ruleset is dependent on SavageWorlds ruleset because it layers on top of it. Because of this Savage Worlds Deluxe Edition store item will provide it. Basically the same baseline ruleset (SavageWorlds) is provided by both store items for technical reasons. If you want to get full experience of SWADE recommendation is to purchase the new store item.

Thank you for this visual explanation of the SWADE, SWD and SavageWorlds! Now it is clear.

The most important question for me: What happens with the existing settings and modules? If I buy Deadlands and Beasts and Barbarians now, will I be able to use it in the SWADE, or I have to buy the SWD?

[Ikael]

Thank you for this visual explanation of the SWADE, SWD and SavageWorlds! Now it is clear.

The most important question for me: What happens with the existing settings and modules? If I buy Deadlands and Beasts and Barbarians now, will I be able to use it in the SWADE, or I have to buy the SWD?

In my first announcement I wrote: "All existing modules such as settings and adventures will be usable with both rulesets." Basically this means all existing SavageWorlds store items will be usable in current ruleset and upcoming new one.

[Talyn]

If I buy Deadlands and Beasts and Barbarians now, will I be able to use it in the SWADE, or I have to buy the SWD?

The goal is for all the existing DLC to be compatible. That said, PEG has already stated they will be doing an all-new SWADE version of Deadlands. I'm not sure if the discussion has taken place yet on whether the existing setting DLC and its GM and Player Guides will be upgraded or if it will be a separate product.

[Valyar]

Thanks for the clarifications, really great! Does not sound like a shady scheme to me :)

[Topdecker]

Thanks for the info!

Top

[esmdev]

I was wondering if the new ruleset will be an expansion on what already is or will it be a new ruleset maybe built on CoreRPG?

[Trenloe]

I was wondering if the new ruleset will be an expansion on what already is or will it be a new ruleset maybe built on CoreRPG?
Details are in post #1.

[Orsalak]

I apologize if I'm behind the times on this as I haven't been keeping up with FG SW developments lately. Last I used it I seem to recall the Savage Worlds Enhancement Extensions provided a lot of improvements over the core files. Will the enhancement extension no longer be needed with the new SWADE rule set?

[Doswelk]

I suspect they will still be needed, the enhancements are really for GMs making modules/adventures they are not required for the Savage Worlds ruleset per-se, in fact I do not run them in my game campaign but only in campaigns I use to create modules.

Please note this is my opinion and that Ikael's decision will be "official"

[Ikael]

I apologize if I'm behind the times on this as I haven't been keeping up with FG SW developments lately. Last I used it I seem to recall the Savage Worlds Enhancement Extensions provided a lot of improvements over the core files. Will the enhancement extension no longer be needed with the new SWADE rule set?

Seems you have been long away from Savaging :)

Originally Savage Worlds Enhancement Extensions were made to alter core ruleset files and provide new features and core functionality, however that was time before I took the main ruleset developer role. Little by little Enhanced Extension features have been incorporated into the core ruleset itself so you do not need them to get core functionality anymore. That what the current ruleset already have, SWADE will be no different.

The only extension that is not and will not be incorporated into the core ruleset is Enhanced Library extension. That's what Doswelk is referring to. The main purpose of that extension is to provide toolset for users to create content and modules for the ruleset.

[mac40k]

So glad to hear the Enhanced Library extension will be maintained. I use it all the time and can't imagine life without it.

[kris1d20]

I'm happy to hear this is in the pipeline. I just got my FG back up and running and I'm trying to digest the new edition of SWADE anyway. Super excited to hear that my existing material will be kept relevant. The prices for the new stuff (If they stay around what''s listed here) also are really affordable. I look forward to seeing new developments on this!

[AstaSyneri]

Considering the SWD ruleset is one of the best online rulesets, I'd happily pay another 10 bucks to get a fully endowed SWADE rule set with all those bells and whistles (chases, semi-automated combat, etc.). With many new developer hours going into it, one can hardly call it a rip-off.

I am very much looking forward to see SWADE in FG.

[Valyar]

Will there be a functionality to convert existing modules to SWADE rules upon loading, mainly for NPCs (like in the Call of Cthulhu 7e ruleset)?

[Doswelk]

You won't need it SWD NPCs will work in SWADE without conversion

[Valyar]

Is this valid also for the links in their profile pointing to their Edges/Hindrances/Creature Abilities? I heard a lot of changes in that direction in SWADE.

[Doswelk]

Is this valid also for the links in their profile pointing to their Edges/Hindrances/Creature Abilities? I heard a lot of changes in that direction in SWADE.
I doubt it would point to the SWADE edges as all the links are coded in the xml of each product. That said you could load the SWD modules so the links work, but would point to the SWD version of the edges.

Special abilities and new hindrances edges would be stored in that product / setting guide.

I ran my first SWADE game last Tuesday (using the pre-alpha FG SWADE ruleset), all I did was look up the edge in SWADE if I did not know what it did, most edges and hindrances are automated anyway

[Ikael]

Is this valid also for the links in their profile pointing to their Edges/Hindrances/Creature Abilities? I heard a lot of changes in that direction in SWADE.

There is no need to "convert" NPC stat blocks. You can use them as they are with SWADE. What comes with links, they are not converted but new SWADE modules will replace SWD links if you have SWADE modules activated and have left SWD modules inactivated. In this case if you open SWD link in old module it will actually open SWADE module link. This "replace" is old feature in FG and was first time used when SWEX was updated to SWD.

[Ikael]

Read more from here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?47294-Savage-Worlds-updates-in-Test-channel).

[ProfDogg]

Any updates to report? Planning on running SWADE 1st week of Feb or so...

[Ikael]

Any updates to report? Planning on running SWADE 1st week of Feb or so...

No fixed ETA yet. SWADE ruleset was released to beta-testing 3rd of January and I would keep it still there for at least next two weeks. SWADE module has progressed well and I am half way converting changes from 4.0 version of the PDF. I estimate the 4.0 work to be ready during the weekend and I can start working on module styling and layouting. After that there is massive task to make sure all existing products are compatible with it and do required updates to them. Because I can work efficiently only during weekends and I have other plans for few upcoming weekends I estimate that the earliest release can happen somewhere in mid February.

One thing I decided is that the first release of the FG SWADE will be delivered without the new theme. I will be working on it and other graphical updates after the product is released.

[ProfDogg]

And I saw they just dropped a 4.1 version... PEG works pretty fast though compared to most publishers.

[GM BK]

Thanks for the update! As for the new theme, please no white background!!! It burns the eyes!! :) Love the grey and brown themes that are available!

[Miles M Kantir]

As a publisher I just want to say what an amazing job you're doing, Ikael. The Fantasy Ground Savages owe you everything, publishers and players alike.

Thank you so much, from the bottom of my heart.

[InfinitePudding]

Exciting stuff. My 10 dollars will be waiting, likely breaking the sound barrier with how fast I will throw it at the update.

[mac40k]

Exciting stuff. My 10 dollars will be waiting, likely breaking the sound barrier with how fast I will throw it at the update.

Me too. Think there are enough of us to bring down the store servers?;)

[GM BK]

Yes, take my money!!! I've got an ETU campaign I plan on starting. Just waiting on SWADE! :)

[ProfDogg]

Take my Gold!

26121

[Springroll]

I'll buy it as soon as it hit the store :)

[Art Wendorf]

I'll buy it as soon as it hit the store :)As will I! As... will... Iiiii.....
Very excited to see this.

[Varsuuk]

As will I even though I have yet to use my SW FG materials ;) but the cost is more than reasonable and I wish to support FG & the awesome work of folks like Ikael

[Baufrin]

@Ikael and @Doug Shut up and take my money already!

[Aaron]

I just wanted to report a bug with the latest test version of SWADE, in case it hasn't been reported or identified yet.

When using a non-wildcard NPC, the effects of [Wounds=2] or [Wounds +2], for example, do not work. The extra will still become incapacitated when receiving a single wound. When a wildcard NPC has either of these effects, it works normally, setting the wounds at the desired level, or increasing the wounds by the desired amount.

I've rolled back to the non-test SW Deluxe version of FG and retested and in that build the effects work as intended for extras and wildcards.

I hope this helps. :)

[Ikael]

I just wanted to report a bug with the latest test version of SWADE, in case it hasn't been reported or identified yet.

When using a non-wildcard NPC, the effects of [Wounds=2] or [Wounds +2], for example, do not work. The extra will still become incapacitated when receiving a single wound. When a wildcard NPC has either of these effects, it works normally, setting the wounds at the desired level, or increasing the wounds by the desired amount.

I've rolled back to the non-test SW Deluxe version of FG and retested and in that build the effects work as intended for extras and wildcards.

I hope this helps. :)

This is not a bug. One of the item in changelog states:



[SavageWorlds] Damage threshold effect keywords changed to "Wounds Threshold" and "Fatigue Threshold"


This means that if you want to tweak Wound threashold you should use effect [Wounds Threshold=2] or [Wounds Threshold +2]
The purpose of this change is to release Wounds and Fatigue effect keywords to other purposes. This change will also be in SWD ruleset after SWADE is released.

Another alternative to adjust Wounds threadshold is to give Resilient or Very Resilient ability.

[ProfDogg]

Ikael, any ETA on release for SWADE on the non-test side? No pressure of course, just itching to dive in fully with my group...

[Aaron]

This is not a bug. One of the item in changelog states:

That's good news it's not a bug. Thanks for the information.

Have fun. :)

[StoryWeaver]

Can't wait to buy the SWADE book in FG. :)

[dberkompas]

@Styrmir, what are you waiting for. GO GO GO


Dave

[Ikael]

I am also little bit too late to announce it here, but SWADE it out! Read more from here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?48112-Savage-Worlds-2019-February-update).

[Varsuuk]

I ant to support it by buying first day :)

However even though I own DLR bundle and others, I have never run a game. That is changing in week or two. i have only become familiar with original rules. even after buying new v5, I assume I can load v4 and run say, Coffin Rock as a regular v4 rules system right? It’s not like it converts my old modules?

[Ampersandrew]

I have only become familiar with original rules. even after buying new v5, I assume I can load v4 and run say, Coffin Rock as a regular v4 rules system right? It’s not like it converts my old modules?

The aim was to let you use downloaded modules with either set of rules, you just start the appropriate type of campaign and the modules should be available to load.

[Varsuuk]

Ah cool, I just worried modules worked for both be a use wired as before with old but if you upgraded ruleset, it converted existing to that. Right, makes more sense this way it’s just an alt ruleset which can take from same source.

Cool, then I am ordering it now even though I won’t likely play with new rules until after get physical book and set from the KS