Random Frequent Crashes

[Dave]

Hello All,

Earlier I posted a thread about how my game would crash when I did masking or tried to edit layers (here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?46200-Constant-Crashes-when-Masking-Images-Setting-Grids)). I got some helpful advice to use the 32-bit exe instead of the 64-bit exe.

Now, regardless of what I'm doing, whenever I'm in game I have about 5 minutes before it crashes to desktop. This is regardless of the 32 bit or 64 bit version. It seems to happen faster when I have players connected. Some odd things happened today that have never happened before:

*One of my players continually got shunted to a "One Shot Halloween Game" instead of my campaign.
*A random stranger popped in and out of the game, up until I password protected the campaign.

(This has never happened before, nor I have I shared my IP address with anyone outside of my player group).

I'm pretty frustrated as this killed one of my gaming sessions and would like to get this squared away.

EDIT: It look awhile but the 12/2 update to my graphics card drivers finally worked. See last post for details.

[Trenloe]

Sounds like you may have 2 different issues here.

1) Two GM computers are using the same alias - I'd recommend changing the alias.
2) A crash straight to desktop without any error messages at all suggests something up with the display driver. It may also be related to using a lot of memory - but you usually get other errors and not a straight crash to desktop. But, to cover that off, check how much memory FantasyGrounds.exe is using in Windows task manager when you're up and running.

[esmdev]

As more people run FG servers with alias the random drop ins seem to be reported more frequently. In some cases it might be fun, like hey welcome to the game, but I can see how it might be disconcerting. Most people I've talked to about it run the alias without really knowing what it is or does just because it is a clickable option in the setup screen.

I know when I first started running with FG I just setup a 5E campaign server gave my IP to my players and we got started with Phandalin. Didn't really read anything just started playing. I wonder how many people are like me in the beginning. I've since learned a lot but was eager to just get going in the beginning.

[Dave]

We switched over to using IP addresses only :)

I kept an eye on the CPU and GPU resources used through Task Manager. FG runs at a pretty rock solid 22% CPU and 19% GPU regardless of what I was putting on screen.

[esmdev]

The important number to monitor is memory. Anywhere near 3gb is bad.

I once loaded this gigantic set of PD tokens i found and just wiped out my server. They just overloaded my memory. Moved them back out and was fine again. Now I just pick and choose from an offline directory if I'm adding tokens moving in what I'm using and more importantly moving out what I'm not.

[Trenloe]

I kept an eye on the CPU and GPU resources used through Task Manager. FG runs at a pretty rock solid 22% CPU and 19% GPU regardless of what I was putting on screen.
How much memory was it using?

I wouldn't expect FG to sit at the constant values you mentioned - CPU use should rise and fall, but not remain constant - unless that's a single CPU getting completely overloaded.

On FG's main launch screen, click the "Settings" button - is "Cross-platform compatibility mode for Linux and Mac" in the settings window selected?

[Dave]

I guess "rock solid" may have been a bad phrase to use, there are some minor fluctuations depending on what is being shown, but it hovers right around 19.1%. Less when something else is on and up to 22% when not. The CPU was at moving between 252MB and 600MB depending on what was going on - I think I have 12GB of RAM.

I loaded a different map and the game ran without a hitch, despite people being connected. This second map is oddly* much bigger. How frequent are crashes due to corrupt JPEGS?

*Oddly because since it's bigger I would have thought it more prone to cause a crash.

[Dave]

Yes, the Cross-platform compatibility mode box is checked. We have one player on Mac.

[Trenloe]

Yes, the Cross-platform compatibility mode box is checked. We have one player on Mac.
That is a client side setting - only the player running the Mac might need to enable it - and then only if they have screen redraw issues. If you're running on Windows you can disable it.

[Trenloe]

I loaded a different map and the game ran without a hitch, despite people being connected. This second map is oddly* much bigger. How frequent are crashes due to corrupt JPEGS?
If the JPG was corrupt it wouldn't display at all.

How big is the JPG - resolution (width x height)?

[damned]

Yes, the Cross-platform compatibility mode box is checked. We have one player on Mac.

Uncheck it.
Your Mac player may need to check it at their end - it only effects the app on the machine that setting is checked on.
FG can only use approx 3.3GB of RAM on a 64bit machine regardless of how much RAM you actually have.

Re the Alias - in recent times Ive seen quite a few GMs just cycle thru thousands of aliases looking for one they like or just looking... each time they do that they set every one of those aliases to their IP.
A GM who actually has that Alias permanently will reset that IP when they launch a game but timing can cause issues.
And there will be instances where more than one person is using the same alias so if they are playing on the same night it will cause issues...

[esmdev]

One thing to keep in mind is that a 32-bit application cannot address more than 4gb of memory at a time regardless of how much memory is in the system. So if you load everything under the hood you'll run out of memory and crash. Future versions will fix this problem but at present that's the barrier we live with.

[Dave]

If the JPG was corrupt it wouldn't display at all.

How big is the JPG - resolution (width x height)?

The first (problematic) jpeg was 750x600 at a size of 149kB. Settings were 50 px per grid and 50% quality during export from paint.net.

The second (working) jpeg was 4400x4400 at a size of over 3MB. Settings were 100 px per grid and 70% quality.

I was expecting to have problems with the second image and not the first.

[Trenloe]

The first (problematic) jpeg was 750x600 at a size of 149kB. Settings were 50 px per grid and 50% quality during export from paint.net.

The second (working) jpeg was 4400x4400 at a size of over 3MB. Settings were 100 px per grid and 70% quality.

I was expecting to have problems with the second image and not the first.
Thanks for that info. This is sounding more and more like it's a graphics issue, as I mentioned in post #2. There are definitely some types of graphics/textures that cause issues with the DirectX 3D engine - the dead tokens extension is known to sometimes cause DirectX errors.

Could you post a screenshot of the image that causes an issue while it's open in Fantasy Grounds?

Does the crash occur when you're masking/unmasking? Zooming in/out? Or any other reproducible steps to cause FG to crash?

I'd recommend updating your graphics drivers. Or, conversely, if they're up-to-date, try installing older graphics drivers from a couple of years ago (this has helped other with strange graphics driver issues).

Also try tuning some of the advanced 3D settings for your graphics card - turned off/minimising settings as a first step. I'm afraid this is pretty much a hit or miss process - as it'll be a case of experimenting to find something that is more stable.

[Dave]

OK, so far I have:

>updated my graphics drivers (they were a few months out of date)
>changed the UI to 90%
>Removed the C&C suite of tokens from my modules (I hope that wasn't the cause cause there didn't seem to be too many of them)
>unchecked the compatibility mode in FG under settings.

Here's a screenshot of the offending image (as other maps have now run fine!)

25150

[Dave]

The only commonality left is that I had my three players online for each of the crashes. My mucking about without anyone connected didn't cause a random crash.

[Trenloe]

The only commonality left is that I had my three players online for each of the crashes. My mucking about without anyone connected didn't cause a random crash.
Ask the players what they were doing when the crash occurs. Ask them to be honest.

See here for an example of players causing random crashes: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?46224-Fantasy-Grounds-crashes-regularly&p=412230&viewfull=1#post412230

[Dave]

Ask the players what they were doing when the crash occurs. Ask them to be honest.

Player 1 (who was not online, but felt compelled to respond): I was eating dinner in the Rainforest Cafe in the Mall of America outside St. Paul, MN. I had chicken strips with honey mustard. I was talking with my family.

Player 2: I was doing nothing, just waiting to get started.
Although chicken strips with honey mustard sounds really good.

Player 3: Well for starters I was drinking wine during the game so if you're looking for technicalities I dont remember. I was trying to send an email to my mom and also googling trouble shooting topics as they came up.

Player 4: For two of the crashes I was doing nothing - intentionally not touching the mouse/keyboard. For a couple of them i was trying to move a token but it just drew an arrow instead.

That map was clearly bugged. We could move an unfriendly token at one point. Ciuldnt move any tokens at another. I blame the rat demon tea shop owner.
I was drinking too... but not fancy wine...

Player 4 brings up something I didn't remember. Some players lost control of all tokens, others could move ALL tokens and sometimes when we couldn't move tokens, we had the arrow feature activated. We couldn't switch off making arrows.

[damned]

It sounds to me like there wasnt enough wine involved?

[Dave]

That might be the problem as I'm drinking bourbon and working on a different map and am now crashing the computer to the BSOD.

25202

[Dave]

Pertinent details:

The crash occurred as I was attempting to un-mask this new map. (25203

It's 1700x1400 pixels at 382 kb.

Any offending image is coming from Dungeon Painter Studio.

[Dave]

Arg. I can mask and modify a screenshot without any problems!

[Bidmaron]

Dave, it sounds like you are using the 64 bit version, which is known bugged when you mask/unmask. Switch to the non-test version of the program.

[Dave]

Not true! I am using the 32 bit version.

Through testing, it looks like this is unique to JPEGs created by Dungeon Painter Studio (or at least some of them). My workaround is to export those files as a .png then transform them to .jpegs using a different program. Which is beastly, but will work until I can get support from Pyromancers.

[damned]

I would try losing the () in the filename.

[Dave]

I would try losing the () in the filename.

Let me give that a go...

[Dave]

That let me mask and un-mask to my heart's content...I'll try it out tomorrow during game time and see if it holds up to that stress test.

[Trenloe]

That might be the problem as I'm drinking bourbon and working on a different map and am now crashing the computer to the BSOD.

25202
This is indicating and issue with your graphics card (ATI) driver.

Doing an Internet search for "atikmdag.sys bsod" seems to suggest various ways to address it. As you're getting a BSOC in the graphics driver, this appears to confirm my suspicions regarding the FG crash being graphics driver related...

[Trenloe]

Player 1 (who was not online, but felt compelled to respond): I was eating dinner in the Rainforest Cafe in the Mall of America outside St. Paul, MN. I had chicken strips with honey mustard. I was talking with my family.

Player 2: I was doing nothing, just waiting to get started.
Although chicken strips with honey mustard sounds really good.

Player 3: Well for starters I was drinking wine during the game so if you're looking for technicalities I dont remember. I was trying to send an email to my mom and also googling trouble shooting topics as they came up.

Player 4: For two of the crashes I was doing nothing - intentionally not touching the mouse/keyboard. For a couple of them i was trying to move a token but it just drew an arrow instead.

That map was clearly bugged. We could move an unfriendly token at one point. Ciuldnt move any tokens at another. I blame the rat demon tea shop owner.
I was drinking too... but not fancy wine...

Player 4 brings up something I didn't remember. Some players lost control of all tokens, others could move ALL tokens and sometimes when we couldn't move tokens, we had the arrow feature activated. We couldn't switch off making arrows.
Hahaha... Nice to know your players remember what they were doing. ;)

[Dave]

I was able to run a 2+ hour session full of masking, unmasking, adding pointers and deleting pointers by removing absolutely everything from my computer having to do with AMD. This forced Fantasy Grounds to run on the integrated Intel chip and it worked fine.

I'm going to research how to "pause" the graphics card before fantasy grounds for next time.

[Dave]

At the risk of totally jinxing myself:

For those folks on an AMD Radeon graphics card (R7 M440), please update the driver to version 18.40.11.09 and you won't have an issue with crashing during changing mask and grid settings.