Do I have to buy DMG, PHB, MM?

[ScottFromPortland]

Hi, I'm new to FG! Not really, I suppose - I played on FG about 15 or 20 years ago, but I'm effectively new. I suspect that my question is answered somewhere already, but I haven't been able to find it by searching forums, so my apologies if I'm asking a question that's already been covered, and I respectfully request a redirect. :)

I purchased the Standard License. I'm trying to build a campaign, and I believe that the first step is to load sources. When I attempt to load the DMG, PHB and MM, it appears as if I need to now purchase those, separately. Did I just pay $40 for a game that now needs another $30 or so for every source book I want to utilize?...

[pindercarl]

Welcome back and welcome to the forums.
You can find a good summation from Zacchaeus here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?32987-What-do-I-need-to-play-5e

[ScottFromPortland]

Thank you for the most helpful response Pindercarl!

It feels very much like I got tricked into buying way less than I thought I was buying. It will be much harder to create games here unless I shuck out another $60 dollars or more. Plus, will I then discover that there are even more hidden missing portions that are gonna cost me more? It feels like I've been scammed. If I'm mistaken about this, please let me know!
If I'm not mistaken and I'm still gonna feel scammed, is there a quick refund available?
If not, I'll give it a day or two before I rant about this on Facebook to warn others not to get similarly scammed by purchasing a "Surprise, gotta invest a bunch more money!" version of Fantasy Grounds.

It really seems like my response must fairly common for people who buy FG and then discover that they've purchased a bare-bones system that isn't gonna work nearly as well as one would think when one buys a $40 product. :(

[dulux-oz]

Hi Scott,

In short, no, most people don't feel like they've been scammed - you don't need to buy the extar Modules (Books) as you can do it all manually, but yes, the Modules do make things easier/quicker.

You will find that you will want to purchase "extra" stuff no matter which VTT you choose to use - again, you don't need too (I generally don't, because I write my own stuff), but you'll have to decide what your time is worth to do it all yourself or pay someone else to do it for you (ie buy the Modules).

However, SmiteWorks are pretty good about refunds, etc - shoot an email over to [email protected] explaining your situation and see what they can help you with.

I personally hope you see the value in both the product and this great community and stick around, but if its not for you then that's OK too.

Cheers

[ScottFromPortland]

Thank you, Dulux-Oz! :)
(And, Pindercarl!)

[pindercarl]

Sorry to hear that. A Fantasy Grounds license is for the software, which includes a number of rulesets adapted for use in Fantasy Grounds. In the case of 5E this includes the basic rules and SRD data. Additional resources are not required for the 5E ruleset, but are definitely recommended as illustrated in the post linked above. The price for the modules/resources are determined by the publisher, in this case Wizards of the Coast, and are comparable to the same resources on D&D Beyond and less than on Roll20.

If you purchased through the store on the Fantasy Grounds website, there is a 30-day refund policy. If you have issues, you can send an e-mail to [email protected].

[Trenloe]

@ScottFromPortland - sorry you feel you’ve been scammed. As Carl has mentioned there are the SRD and Basic rules modules that come with Fantasy Grounds - these are activated through the Library - Modules window and will give you a lot of data to get going.

I’m not aware of any official page/posting that would have led you to believe that you got the PHB, DMG and MM official WotC products with any FG license. The features list on the home page shows that you get data libraries for the D&D Basic Rules and SRD, but doesn’t say anything about getting the PHB, DMG or MM. There are also many threads in these forums, and videos/streams where this is mentioned. Scamming is when someone tells you one thing but then gives you something else (or doesn’t give you anything that they said they were going to give you). If there is some post/information released by SmiteWorks that led you to believe you’d get the PHB, DMG and MM with your Standard FG license please let us know where so that it can be reviewed and modified if necessary.

There’s a lot of data in the Basic Rules and SRD library modules. Load those up and have a look through the features and functionality, if you have any questions, please come back and ask.

[damned]

It feels very much like I got tricked into buying way less than I thought I was buying. It will be much harder to create games here unless I shuck out another $60 dollars or more. Plus, will I then discover that there are even more hidden missing portions that are gonna cost me more? It feels like I've been scammed. If I'm mistaken about this, please let me know!
If I'm not mistaken and I'm still gonna feel scammed, is there a quick refund available?

There is about $10,000 worth of add-ons available for Fantasy Grounds. In the Store, where you got the license from. It is surprising that all those authors and artists and publishers are charging for their products.


If not, I'll give it a day or two before I rant about this on Facebook to warn others not to get similarly scammed by purchasing a "Surprise, gotta invest a bunch more money!" version of Fantasy Grounds.

It really seems like my response must fairly common for people who buy FG and then discover that they've purchased a bare-bones system that isn't gonna work nearly as well as one would think when one buys a $40 product. :(

It makes me sad that adults today choose to casually threaten bullying over Social Media as a way to resolve an issue that isnt even an issue. There is so much information about the additional products and what is and isnt included and the refund policy is right there at the top of the page where the licenses are sold:

--
Fantasy Grounds Licenses
Option 1 Choose a Subscription
** READ FIRST ** --> FAQ on subscriptions
30-day Money Back Guarantee on all Purchases
Standard Subscription
Ultimate Subscription

Option 2 One-Time Purchase
No Monthly Subscription Needed
Fantasy Grounds License$39
Ultimate License$149
--

The refund policy is no questions asked - if you are not happy they will give you your money back.

Apologies for being short.

There is a lot of included material. But this obviously does not include material that Fantasy Grounds dont have permission to give away. For 5E there is the full SRD and also the full Basic Rules. For 3.5E/Pathfinder there is a condensed SRD. There is also a lot of Pathfinder PRD/SRD material on the forums. There are lots of community developed rulesets available on the forums/wiki but these do not contain the test/graphics as they are copyright. There are several commercial rulesets in the store (for sale) that also contain reference books and materials.

Also just in case there is some confusion - this is not a game in itself. It is a virtual table top and you do need to connect up with others to play games as you would for a face to face gaming session - only this can be done from home.

If a virtual table top is what you are after - this is an amazing product - with great support - and one who pays proper royalties and license fees to the game publishers and authors and artists - so hopefully you will stick with it and see what it can do. You do have 30 days (maybe 29 now) to discover as much about it as you like. There are plenty of people here who can help answer questions. There are great resources like the User Manual https://www.fantasygrounds.com/filelibrary/FantasyGroundsUserManual.pdf and Wiki https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/ and Discord https://discord.gg/VKbhkSt and there is a group of enthusiasts who run introductory classes for new comers - https://discordapp.com/invite/Ew6nYyw

Holler if you have questions.

[SirGraystone]

On top of what have been written already, in a game you use the DM books, so as player you need none of those books.

[Targas]

When I started FG 5 years ago, I had a similar confusion, like you had. It would certainly help to read a product description stating, you buy a skeleton piece of SW, you can enhance by buying rulesets, the formulars/mathematics of a rule system, as well as content you don‘t have to generate like rulebooks. It might seem obvious to veterans, but it was not to me when I started playing VTTs. That‘s how you should look at it, and it would make sense. Why would a company like WotC give their content besides SRDs away gor free..

[Targas]

On top of what have been written already, in a game you use the DM books, so as player you need none of those books.
More confusion. What SirGraystone wanted to say is not, „you only need the Dungeon Master Guide“, but the Gamemaster‘s bought resources can be shared with the Players, as long as they are online connected via FG, to the GM host during a session. You might think if your players want to share your investment as you play together, as you have the most effort anf they just need to sit down and enjoy like in cinema. But that‘s a different topic..

[SirGraystone]

More confusion. What SirGraystone wanted to say is not, „you only need the Dungeon Master Guide“, but the Gamemaster‘s bought resources can be shared with the Players, as long as they are online connected via FG, to the GM host during a session. You might think if your players want to share your investment as you play together, as you have the most effort anf they just need to sit down and enjoy like in cinema. But that‘s a different topic..

My fault there, my background is D&D where it's a Dungeon Master not Game Master :-) but yes, a game use the books of the one hosting the game.

[shadzar]

Did I just pay $40 for a game that now needs another $30 or so for every source book I want to utilize?...

yes and no. Fantasy Grounds isn't a game. it doesnt do anything without the supporting material, aka DLC to make it run unless you code it yourself.

Imagine if you will you have a physical DMG, MM, and PHB. well you can either buy an adventure to run, or ou can make one yourself.


This is similar to what FG is.. except FG is closer analogy to you have some dice, a calculator, ruler, IRC/SMS, and image sharing. without the ruleset you dont even have a character sheet.

So you have those things in real life, you wold still need to buy the books to play, and after again would need to buy an adventure or make (program one into FG) one to be able to play.

if you own the books, you dont have to buy them and can code them all in yourself if you want to, but links wont connect from things you buy like Waterdeep: Dragon Heist to anything you code as a book, because it doesnt use the EXACT same file names, and sections to be able to connect to. if you want that indexing feature from FG other than having a giant calculator to use the 5e SRD, then you have to buy everything.

[esmdev]

Thank you for the most helpful response Pindercarl!

It feels very much like I got tricked into buying way less than I thought I was buying. It will be much harder to create games here unless I shuck out another $60 dollars or more. Plus, will I then discover that there are even more hidden missing portions that are gonna cost me more? It feels like I've been scammed. If I'm mistaken about this, please let me know!
If I'm not mistaken and I'm still gonna feel scammed, is there a quick refund available?
If not, I'll give it a day or two before I rant about this on Facebook to warn others not to get similarly scammed by purchasing a "Surprise, gotta invest a bunch more money!" version of Fantasy Grounds.

It really seems like my response must fairly common for people who buy FG and then discover that they've purchased a bare-bones system that isn't gonna work nearly as well as one would think when one buys a $40 product. :(

When you install the Demo, buy the Standard, or buy the Unlimited you always get: D&D 5e SRD , D&D 5e Basic Rules , D&D 3.5E SRD, FATECore, Pathfinder SRD libraries. It states this clearly in the information on fantasy grounds license on the very first page of the website.

Is it possible that you do not know what the SRD and Basic rules are? If that is the case, then perhaps I can help to clarify.

The 5E SRD is basically the core of the 5E game system and stands for System Reference Document. Basically it is a baseline core of what 3rd party developers are allowed to freely develop on. Prior to the agreement with Wizards of the Coast, this is all that Fantasy Grounds would have been allowed to use. It is free at this location: https://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/SRD-OGL_V5.1.pdf

The SRD has everything you need to play the game but not as much as the core rules.

The 5E Basic Rules were given away freely by Wizards of the Coast as an introduction to the 5th edition rules and resembles earlier edition basic rules. It has the core classes and core races, the game system and some items and monster. This system contains everything you need to play the game but is not as robust as a game using the core rules. The basic rules are free at this location: https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrules?x=dnd/basicrules.

The core rules consist of the Player's Handbook, the Monster Manual and the Dungeon Master's Guide. These are published and sold by Wizards of the Coast for an estimated retail price of $49.95 for each of the books (of course you can get them for lower if you look around). If you click on the Dungeons & Dragons link on the front page of the Fantasy Grounds website it clearly lists the PHB, MM and DMG at $29.99 each. If you click any of those book links it also states "Requirements: This content requires an active license to download and use." which means without a Fantasy Grounds license of some sort you cannot use the PHB.

I'd like to add that it is entirely possible to run a full game of Fantasy Grounds without the core rules. The SRD provides a tremendous amount of free to use material. Perhaps you can use the SRD to accomplish your initial goals and determine if you need to invest in the other books. In some cases you might not.

Either way, it would be impossible for Fantasy Grounds to freely give the contents of the core rules away without being sued into oblivion by Wizards of the Coast. The core rules contain proprietary non-SRD intellectual property that is completely owned by Wizards of the Coast and cannot be separated from the core rulebook from which it originates.

Over the years I've found that not everyone knows the difference between the basic rules, the SRD and the core rules. Hope this helps. If not at least I tried.

One thing I might add is that if you as DM have the rulebooks then it is not necessary for your players to have the rulebook (so long as they have at least a standard license, or you have an unlimited license). The player's can connect to your campaign server and use whatever books you give them access to in order to create characters. Perhaps your group would be interested in cost sharing the core rules? That is what my group did when we decided to use Fantasy Grounds rather than United Airlines to facilitate our games. :)

[shadzar]

There is about $10,000 worth of add-ons available for Fantasy Grounds. In the Store, where you got the license from. It is surprising that all those authors and artists and publishers are charging for their products.

Condescending tones about things from those "fanbois" was mentioned in another thread by someone about how this forum is unfriendly when someone new comes...

not to mention this comment misses the point... $40 buys a whole game for computers for MANY things, just getting a toolkit that cant be used out of the box IS off-putting, and dictating someone spend their money as you do is downright insulting. People ha people have a right to choose what game they use FG for, and more importantly how they spend their money. NOBODY has any damn right to tell another person how they should spend their money or force them to do so as many of the FG shills around here seem wanton to do.

someone mentions they feel ripped-off, that is a very REAL feeling in the modern digital gaming market, and FG just has to suck it up and realize it and not be rude to people that feel a product was misrepresented because a negative word was used by someone.

Which is another thing people have a right to differ on than yourself, their own feelings. The rampant "butthurt" around here when someone uses a term with any sort of negative connotation in regard to FG and the way they are treated by the people fearing their world is going to crumble around them because a new person doesnt glowingly and blindly love FG just because they do is sickening and reminds me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Azcn84IIDVg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Azcn84IIDVg

and makes those people trying to force the love of FG and make them think it has no faults are as bad as those sycophantic kobolds.





If not, I'll give it a day or two before I rant about this on Facebook to warn others not to get similarly scammed by purchasing a "Surprise, gotta invest a bunch more money!" version of Fantasy Grounds.

It really seems like my response must fairly common for people who buy FG and then discover that they've purchased a bare-bones system that isn't gonna work nearly as well as one would think when one buys a $40 product. :(
It makes me sad that adults today choose to casually threaten bullying over Social Media as a way to resolve an issue that isnt even an issue.


And then right there you proved my point and went full Nolan T Jones.

someone can't review a product anywhere in the world without some SJW millennial calling them a bully.


Fantasy Grounds/ SmiteWorks... Get Woke, Go Broke.

>EOL

[esmdev]

Condescending tones about things from those "fanbois" was mentioned in another thread by someone about how this forum is unfriendly when someone new comes...

someone mentions they feel ripped-off, that is a very REAL feeling in the modern digital gaming market, and FG just has to suck it up and realize it and not be rude to people that feel a product was misrepresented because a negative word was used by someone.


On of the problems with the modern digital gaming market is that people don't generally spend enough time to research exactly what it is they are buying and then get mad by making an uninformed purchase. As I pointed out in my post above, everything is clearly stated on the very first page of the website. I'm not particularly a fanboy and don't have any specific relationship with Smiteworks other than customer. I did spend quite a bit of time researching FG and what it would entail to run a game prior to spending anything. I looked at FG, I looked at Roll20, I looked at running a game with Discord and a private website, I looked at lots of options. In the long run I found that spending money on FG was less work.

I think it's important to stress that any customer should consider what they are buying and do a little research before jumping in and buying something. That simple effort would have avoided the entire problem.

He decided to call FG a scam, but in order for it to be that they would have to be actively deceiving someone, and that is simply not the case. It is not surprising that people who are vested in the game might react in a hostile fashion to someone making an actual criminal accusation against them. Incase you are not aware, financial scamming is an actual criminal act that falls in the area of fraud. It is a word that is often used lightly but really shouldn't be. Just like claiming something is scam when it isn't is actually grounds for lible, not that most people go that route either.

[Moon Wizard]

I think that this thread has covered all the points sufficiently; so I'm going to close it now. Please note that most previous responses on this thread (except pindercarl) are from community members; not official SmiteWorks employees.

For the OP (ScottFromPortland), we try to be up front that the product only comes with the 5E SRD material, as that is all we are allowed to include by the publisher. As mentioned above; if you have seen it stated otherwise, please let us know and we will clarify those statements.

We have a 30 day no questions refund policy for anything purchased via our FG web store. If you do not feel you are getting sufficient value for your purchase, please let us know, and we will get you refunded.

Regards,
JPG