My report on a bad player

[Hooray]

After I announced the end of my campaign because my system have been attacked, I intend now report the person I know is behind all this:

Nayr

I haven't any direct proofs about this, the only ones I have are the insulting chat messages (not through the ingame chat) I got from him and the analysis on my system i did after the facts.

I have the ingame chat log that shows some interesting things together with his bad behaviour against another player though.

Such interesting things led me to some conclusions about the reasons of his acts, in fact through the chat log it can be seen how annoied he was about my lack of available portraits for characters and my indifference about that, in fact i told him that for me we could have just used the portraits and tokens given by the game ( I actually like them more because they fit better in my maps for tactical movements ).
After that things got worse and after he accused me I had changed the stats of his character (that wasn't true obviously he did that by himself) my fg freezed along with my system.
As I restarted my system he suddenly sent me a chat message through yahoo saying this: "See what happens when you change the stats of my character?" and then he insulted me.

All this led me to the conclusions he is probably one of those guys who sell portraits and tokens to people and because of my indifference to that he wanted to threaten me without obviously touch any files of my campaign because he actually feed himself on those who have fun creating campaigns because players then buy portraits and tokens.

He managed to do some damage to my connection at the node level (the only one it can be directly remotely manipulated in my ISP network) and browsed through my windows registry using one of my many running processes (most likely the exe of FG though), plus, but i'm unsure about this one, he dropped a java archive or modified one in my cache of java objects (usually used by malware to track or redirect your movements through the net).

I'll be available to explain any details on these facts and for the chat log.

[GMBazUK]

I didnt fully understand alot of your post but it does sounds pretty serious to me. From my non-technical understanding I guess since with FG you are effectively creating a network, it would be subject to all the same issues which the internet has fallen foul of.

Whilst I would rather give players the benefit of any doubt one of the things which has detered me from hosting with FG right away, is the uncertainty associated with those connected players accessing other areas of my system.

Hopefully your post will prompt the great and kind of the FG forum to give you and others some assurances.

Hope this isolated event wont stop you from using FG however.

Baz.

[DarkStar]

Hooray, are you running your Windows with all the newest patches? Do you have a firewall active? Do you have an antivirus software? Some malware protection?

For me, it is unlikely that somebody would do you any harm via Fantasy Grounds exe, unless it has a very serious bug inside. It's more likely that he scanned your system and found some holes. Another possibility is plain DoS, which made your computer crash. DoS attack could be made on FG server, I guess.

[kalmarjan]

Sounds like you had some problems there.

While I cannot advocate the laying of blame here, especially when you say things like:


I haven't any direct proofs about this, the only ones I have are the insulting chat messages (not through the ingame chat) I got from him and the analysis on my system i did after the facts.

I can say that this individual did play in my campaign once, and was disruptive. Of that I have proof of as well. While this individual was disruptive, he did not do anything after the fact. He just did not show up to my game after that.

As for the chatlog, I'll send you mine if you send me yours.

To put it all in perspective, he named his character Anyr, which was not all that imaginative, since the guy signed in as Ryan. (Or Nayr) Nothing like an anagram. :)

Don't let this stop you from using FG. Simply tighten up your processes and don't worry about FG being a vehicle for these maliscious attacks. Better still, do not use the function with the IP address, instead, use an alias, and the bugger will not get your IP address.

As for Nayr, Ryan or Anyr, or whatever you call yourself, unless you can explain yourself, you will probably find yourself banned in many a game.

Pony up, mon ami!

Sandeman

[kalmarjan]

Also, just a note:

As stupid as it seems, make sure that if you do not have a computer that is fairly recent, like my system... try not to run too many things in the background.

There is a cool program called WinPatrol that will help out in this.

Sandeman

[Hooray]

Disclaimer on FG:

The things happened to me are not an exploit of FG, I'll explain why:

From my understandings of the little maths I did at college as long as electricity (datas) is exchanged between 2 machines everything can be made depending on the skills of the person. That said I'm sure there are no way to stop a truly determined person to scan/damage your system as long as there's a cable of any type able to exchange datas. The usefulness of most common firewalls is to 'filter' the amount of people that can harm your system, meaning that you are still vulnerable but only against the most skilled person (those who created the firewall software as an example), instead you would be temporarly safe against the newbie hackers who need time to understand how your new defenses works.

I usually do not install anything on my comp if not really needed, that partly because my internet connection is configured in such a way that is already filtered against newbie attacks and then because it is my believe that when such skilled attacks happens the reason is right to make you buy their software, which it will never ever happens for me (I'd die before giving in to these kind of forced requests).

So the problem is not at all the FG program as I said it could have happened with any other processes (those necessary for windows are the best for these kind of things because you are sure they are running), I supposed that because FG.exe is probably more simple than the windows processes and the guy showed to be handy with FG software.

@ Kalmarjan i have added you to my yahoo contacts and will gladly send you the chat log via mail if you provide me an address, although as I said it wont prove anything more than his bad behaviour as a player. As per the alias it wont do anything, I'm sure some unix commands can reveal you the infos on the host you are connected to. I unfortunately will be unable to run FG again for technical issues that are not of interest for this matter, I will explain to you via chat though if you care. On a side note he used anagrams of his name too in my game, it looks like he wanted to do the enygmatic guy how cool he is isn't it :)?

Although he managed to ruin my FG experience he did though trigger my innate hate against these kind of behaviours and therefore I'll try to damage his interests in any way I can, starting from giving away all the FG contents I gathered through the net untill now (you'll have enough you really never will have the need to buy new one) and instructions on how to implement it in your fg and on how to build your own if you have time.

Contact me if you are interested I can send to anyone interested via mail and give instructions via yahoo chat.

[heruca]

Hooray, I hope I'm misinterpreting this, but that last bit sounded like you're planning on distributing possibly copyrighted works to anyone and everyone who wants them, as a means of "getting back at" this Ryan person. I'd strongly advise against that. You'd probably end up hurting an innocent person's content sales. And as you yourself said, you have no actual proof.

[DarkStar]

Oh, man... With all due respect, I think you don't know what you are talking about. Although this whole conspiracy theory is amusing. ;) I bet FUM are just a bunch of crackers who will mess up your computer if you use FG and don't buy their works. That's why I bought a token from Devin, I don't use it anymore (different campaign, different character, round tokens made with RPTools are enough for me), I wanted to have a peace of mind, knowing that he won't do me any harm. :P

[ducbian]

It is very unlikely he hacked you via FG, given that FG tends towards instability at the best of times it is far more likely he was simply trying to intimidate you by claiming responsibility for something he had nothing to do with.

Also, what the f**k does 'damaged my connection at the node level' mean? did he send a power surge down your line and burn out your phone socket with his hacker eye vision?

[Hooray]

I'll distribute only FG contents I 'legally' (meaning I couldn't find any taxation on those download (although I'd have much to argue even against that)) downloaded from various places, so it's just I will save a search work to people who are interested, and then I'll give away any infos I know about creating custom contents and generally on whatever I'll be able to tell to prevent the dependence of people on these kind of persons.

I think I've found a relatively safe way to run FG, but you'll have to be 100% sure of your friends for this to work, although you'll be always open to random ports scanning software, but at least that would be random.

[Hooray]

That's why I bought a token from Devin, I don't use it anymore (different campaign, different character, round tokens made with RPTools are enough for me), I wanted to have a peace of mind, knowing that he won't do me any harm. :P

I could never do that even if it was free.

[Hooray]

It is very unlikely he hacked you via FG, given that FG tends towards instability at the best of times it is far more likely he was simply trying to intimidate you by claiming responsibility for something he had nothing to do with.

Also, what the f**k does 'damaged my connection at the node level' mean? did he send a power surge down your line and burn out your phone socket with his hacker eye vision?

You would understand I had no interest in damaging a player of my campaign, I actually needed players, especially given the fact I'm new to this community.

That said any arguing on what happened to me could be solved only if you could have been here when happened therefore competely unuseful, I reported that for the sake of information.

[Griogre]

Could this type of thing happen? For some who doubt that Hooray could have been attacked – yes it could happen. Very unlikely to be done through FG - but very possible through the port opened for FG. Open ports are by definition a connection to your computer. A malicious player with knowledge of FG knows what port is open on the server – but all he really needs is an IP address – he could scan for open ports on that address.

As was already mentioned the use of alias instead of giving out a specific IP number is probably the most effective counter to a malicious player. One thing I see here and on other sites that makes me cringe is the routine disabling of firewall and other protection software to fix connection issues.

Many seem to just cut off their protection instead of configuring it to work with the software that the protection blocks. It is one thing to shut stuff down to diagnose problems, but to use it as a long term solution is asking for trouble.

So what can you do to minimize the risk? Configure your hardware firewall correctly and have a software firewall on the server to help protect against random attacks. To protect against malicious players use an alias, and consider using a real password to connect to your game.

[GMBazUK]

Personally, thanks for the advice Griorge.

Very good points, well made -

(Hope I got this correct)

DONT SHUT OFF YOUR SYSTEMS PROTECTIONS TO ALLEVIATE COMMUNICATION PROBLEMS. CONFIGURE THEM TO WORK WITH THE CONNECTION

USE AN ALIAS FOR HOSTING, NOT AN IP ADDRESS.

Lets hope that this advice to other novices like me, will prove a real positive in what is a very unfortunate set of circumstances.

Baz.

[DarkStar]

The alias is no protection at all. It's just a feature to make remembering server addresses easier for people, because it's easier to memorize a few words than an IP address. IP address of the server is not hidden in any way, but you have to know more than how to run a game or open a website. ;) Yet, no special skills are required, either.

Alias feature was not meant to be a protection of any kind. As for passwords - I always have one set up for my campaigns, because I don't want unknown people connecting to my game. ;)

[kalmarjan]

I was hoping it would not come to it, but it looks like I would have to get a password going as well.

As for the advice on firewalls, good advice, one caveat though. For people like me... I have no frickin clue as to how to set up firewalls and the like. I am more on the side for graphics in computers, so unless someone walked me step by step, I would be lost.

Perhaps this is why people disable the protective devices, it is the path of least resistance.

Finally, it is the community here that can make or break this game. Once word gets around about this player, or any other disruptive players, then life as a gamer in FG would be pretty hard.

OTOH, I was nice enough to let the whole thing slide with this problem player back in May of '05, and looks like that was a bad decision on my part. Sorry to have caused any grief.

As for the person responsible, like I said, you are being slammed here, and a good way to go is to either defend yourself, or 'fess up. Otherwise you will find it hard to use your investment in FG.

'Nuff said on that. :)

Back to dice chucking!

Sandeman

[Griogre]

The alias is no protection at all.
Am I missing something? Why wouldn't hiding the host IP number from the player not be a protection? Does the FG alias server or FG expose the host IP? Or you are you just talking about packet sniffing?

[DarkStar]

Why wouldn't hiding the host IP number from the player not be a protection? Does the FG alias server or FG expose the host IP?

It does not hide anything. It's only not shown in FG itself, but you can see it in Windows. Either your firewall will show you active connections (not the built-in Windows firewall, though, it's very simple), or open the command prompt and type netstat -b in and look for the FG process. ;) If it's still not there, you can try -a -b flags together.

[devinnight]

Just to clear things up.
FUM has nothing to do with this, there is no RYAN or ANYR or anybody else associated with FUM that would do something like this.

I've never pressured anyone to buy my tokens, and have many people who are quite happy to use them and do so without problems.

I assume that Hooray is refering to someone else, and Darkstar was merely referencing me as something he had tried in the past and then decided he liked going another route.

So please, if you have said something in the past threads about FUM please clarify that it was not us, and not me specifically.

Thanks.
Devin

[DarkStar]

I assume that Hooray is refering to someone else, and Darkstar was merely referencing me as something he had tried in the past and then decided he liked going another route.


What can I say? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm)

[Hooray]

Well I can only say for sure that Nayr did those things i mentioned above to me no more no less, as I'm new to the community I obviously cant associate him to anyone but his FG nick and from what he said that he's somewhat related to the portraits market.

That said this thread is going a way I didn't intended, in fact I only intended to report that guy for his actions and possibly to find some help on how to avoid such things to happen again.
I will continue playing through FG software which is great.

Furthermore my offer is still open to anyone who need free content, noone will never know you toke content from me just send an e-mail to this address grisbi&yahoo.com (&=@) or add me to the contact list and ask.

Also if anyone feels to say something but he's rightfully scared because of possible retaliations from that guy feel free to tell me and I'll report that in a completely anonymous way.

Edit: Sorry I forgot to complete my address (guess i'm typing too much in forums lately :))

This my address:

grisbi3074&yahoo.com (&=@)

[Illrigger]

Am I missing something? Why wouldn't hiding the host IP number from the player not be a protection? Does the FG alias server or FG expose the host IP? Or you are you just talking about packet sniffing?
Just to be clear on this, if you'e on the internet ANYONE CAN GET YOUR IP ADDRESS. The very nature of TCP/IP requires this. No proxy, alias, or other means can fully prevent a person can finding it, at best it just makes it harder to get it. For the kind of stuff we're talking about here in this thread, using an anonymous proxy (not an alias, a real proxy) will likely keep you safe, but it will have a serious impact on FG's performance. An alias will do NOTHING to protect your address.

The best you can hope for is to limit your exposure with a firewall and AV/Malware protection, and just accept that you are NEVER "anonymous" on the 'net.

[kalmarjan]

Just to be clear on this, if you'e on the internet ANYONE CAN GET YOUR IP ADDRESS. The very nature of TCP/IP requires this. No proxy, alias, or other means can fully prevent a person can finding it, at best it just makes it harder to get it. For the kind of stuff we're talking about here in this thread, using an anonymous proxy (not an alias, a real proxy) will likely keep you safe, but it will have a serious impact on FG's performance. An alias will do NOTHING to protect your address.

Quite right, as I understand it.

However, if you do not have an IP adress posted, and the other needs to use an alias to connect, it is after the fact where the player would find out your IP address.

Also, if you have a password, I believe that you would not be able to connect until you give the correct password.

We are talking about FG here, not the internet. I am sure if you try hard enough, you would be able to find an address to the DM.

The concern here is about FG, not the internet.

Sandeman

[Griogre]

I'm aware that you can't really be anon with out being re-routed and the IP changed. It's just a question of degree of effort to trace. The only secure system is one not on a network - and there is still the human factor.

[Griogre]

Well I can only say for sure that Nayr did those things i mentioned above to me no more no less, as I'm new to the community I obviously cant associate him to anyone but his FG nick and from what he said that he's somewhat related to the portraits market.

Hooray I don't doubt your word. I do doubt that your problem child has anything to do with selling tokens. You don't sell many tokens by pissing off customers.

It sounded like the guy had a grudge and seized on the portrait as a pretext or was just trying to impress you. You weren't impressed and he had a tantrum.

[Hooray]

There couldn't be any grudge unless he just didn't like my nick or name, things were going perfect untill then.

It is my strong opinion that he disagreed my policy (as master) against custom tokens and portraits, which i stated I couldn't care less of both and I would have been using the base ones (that i still much prefer and use). Also consider things got worse when he realized I knew how to share protraits along with tokens. And then there is the fact that would you really be going to waste your time (2 weeks for characters preparation plus all the posts he made stating how interested he was in my camp, I also sent him a background of his charater) only for the sake of pulling a nasty prank on a guy you have never seen in your life?
You can believe it or not but I'm sure he had a second purpose for his actions.

Now listen to this I've been in many many internet communities in my life and got to see the worst insults and behaviours, as aspected when dealing with so many people, but this one is not even comparable to the worst of them, when I come to this kind of actions it's no more a game for me especially when I'm sure he's not a child.

Do you realize there may be children playing through this software and thanks to him they'll learn in order to get a buisness succesfull they have to threaten the customers?

Again this is no more a game for me I'd hammer my comp before allowing this to be succesfull.

Also this is not the first time I got my comp scanned by almost unknown persons I actually allowed other friends i have to do that for the sake of the whole community's security, once they know I cant be of any harm for anyone everything would proceed better included my experience through that community and I agree that policy, but this is completely different, this is extortion.

I will never ever allow that kind of actions to be succesfull until i have a drop of blood in my veins.

[dLANbandit]

My dear lord. I have never seen so many talking as if they knew so much about so little.

1st. I'm a Computer Engineer and I know a few things about the computer. I will try to define somethings so you all understand and then I will address the seed of this thread.

You all have an IP address. It is how you are identified. Data doesn't know where your computer lives without an IP. You cannot hide your IP address.

Firewalls, there are 2 kinds software and hardware.
Hard ware firewall. These are commonly called a router. A HUB, Switch or other device is not a firewall. Only routers, or computers setup to be routers. BTW only real IT people know how to setup a computer as a router.

Software Firewall: This is a program that runs on your computer and inspects each and every packet you recieve. (packets are how data gets to you and from you.) It simply chooses to ignore some packets based on their content or sender information. Most let you choose which programs to allow or disallow, however most people don't know what most of the programs are. So they end up allowing a lot more than they should.

A hardware firewall is always going to protect you more than a software one. However their is nothing precluding useing both. Just view them as filters instead of fire walls. They will keep out some things in allow in others. Barring a mistake on your part or a super critical flaw in the router or software no one is getting in.

Node level attack? Everything on the net is a node. Including your computer. The Internet is just a network of computers or nodes. Routers, switches, DNS's and other systems are all just computers or nodes.

So here is what most likely happend.
Someone joined your session and acted like a jerk. Then a random glitch happend and he made a comment probably intending someting like karma and you took it as a demonstration of his power. Then you leapt to GIANT conclusions, like he was a rogue agent for FUM (which makes awsome products BTW).

There is no technical way to attack through FG currently known. Therefore he would have to be on the playing field of maybe a thousand people in the world that are professional crackers. If he were then you wouldn't be able to type this post right now because your machine would be down.

The most feared attack is a Denial of Service Attack. This used to be accomplished by just having a few broad band friends repeatedly ping the crap out of your IP address. Your machine would get so busy trying to recieve that your modem would decide you were offline and reset itself. After a few minutes of this you would realize your service was not working and go do something else. However in today's day and age your service provider is monitoring excessive traffic and throttling things, and additionally it requires many more machines to DNS broad band machines. You said yourself you got right back up and he said "see what you get". That means you were not under a Denial of Service Attack.


Therefore, that guy is a jerk. Congradulations you have reported him to the community that bothers to read this. However There are plenty who run games that won't read this. Perhapse something can be added to the game finder that allows for feed back like Ebay? Beg the Devs maybe they will help. That guy is not a hacker, or even a script kiddy. Trust me.

[Craw]

That guy is not a hacker, or even a script kiddy. Trust me.

Sounds like a garden variety brat to me. Unfortunately, the anonymity of the internet causes some people to quit acting civil when they don't get things EXACTLY their way.

RP games are inherently social. Unfortunately, there is a real diversity in expectations of proper social behavior.

[Hooray]

www.fastweb.it (https://www.fastweb.it)

There you'll find infos on how my ISP works.

Pardon my friend but although I'm far from being a comp tech I'm pretty sure anything related to the math science needs very precise documentations to be correctly analyzed, therefore it is my believe that without a manual analysys on any system or network you would neither be able to find the power button if correctly placed and hidden.

That said I tell you I don't appreciate much being considered a liar and hereby confirm that everything I've said above about my machine and network was true and the consequence of an 'attack' (or call it whatever is more technically comfortable in your language), I have called the support service of my ISP for the first time in 4 years to have my account settings reset, otherwise I would not have been able to connect to my home page anymore.

I've also stated that my post wasn't intended to be a lesson of any type on computer engeneering, but only a report on bad behaviour and I reported only the things I was sure they happened on my system, I will cite them again and you are again free to believe that or not:

1) My comp froze not because of a drivers' error or any peripheral conflicts.

2) 'Damage' has been done to the server that is home of my account's datas, don't exactly know what happened but I had to reset my account settings.

3) My windows' registry has been browsed. No idea if any change has been implemented or even if it was possible to.

Now you're free to believe that or not I don't mind, but please refrain to accuse me of superficiality without neither to know me.

Now let's go on with other big misunderstandings:

1) I have never stated anywhere that Nayr is from FUM site (I'm currently playing one of the best campaign I plaied with players all members of that site) I only stated my suspects on the reasons that Nayr had to do what he did.

2) I have never stated FG was the cause of all this I only stated that Nayr showed to be handy with its interface and therefore it was unlikely he was a newby to FG, and that pheraps, being a running process itself, it could have been used by skilled users for malicious purpose, here I strongly reccomend to browse some dictionary and find the different meanings of this 2 statements:

1) It could have been the cause.

2) It was the cause.

3) I clearly said that this thread was going a way it wasn't intended, in fact I only wanted to report the bad behaviour of the player supported by my analysys of what happened to my system, your hypothesis on what happened to my comp are just off topic and in my opinion completely wrong.

PS: attack on node level?

Pardon me again but by using your definitions of node it looks like the server I mentioned was damaged is included in your node definition so where's the mistake.

*changing topic*

I obviously documented myself about protection issues in the meanwhile and I think I've found some few tricks to ensure your FG experience even if you don't own a firewall software or don't know how to correctly configure it, the only thing that is required for this to work though is the complete trust on your players because if you are not firewalled any of them can retrieve your IP address.
PM me if you are interested.

For me the thread has achieved its intent and can be closed, especially given the fact Nayr neither tried to justify himself and this says it long.

Also please if you intend to bring again discredit on my word than you are entitled to post the exact operations executed by my processor that would constitute a concrete proof of what exactly happened to my system, otherwise add an 'in my opinion' on your statements.

[dLANbandit]

Denial isn't just a river in Africa.

Dude you said yourself you have no proof. So which is it? Do you have proof or are you just stating your opinoin as facts?

Secondly you spent an entire paraghaph in your original post accusing him of being from the token artist sceen.

Later you accused him of association with devinight which is a member of FUM.

Thirdly, is English your 1st language? I think your way of writing is a bit strange, maybe something is getting lost in the translation.

I'm certain this thread has satisfied you and your desire to slander someone and make you feel better. But the fact is it won't have a lasting effect on this person in this community as people come and go daily, and a small percentage of those even read the forums. Which can be evidenced by the number of sales vs the number of people on the forums, and by the number of people that don't search for past threads and instead just post the same thing someone else has already covered.

Lastly, I'm not attacking you, I'm trying to get you to calm the heck down and either give proof of the attack, details of the attack, or just accept that there is a good chance it was purely a coincidnce that he was being a jerk when your computer or ISP had a problem. Your post is making people nervous and confused uncesarily. The last thing we need is some rumor flying around that FG has a hack or a hacker that lets people hurt your computer.

[Hooray]

Services aren't continents either.

First you are an arrogant person, second you haven't red my posts, third you misunderstood everything again.

I have neither mentioned once anyone from the FUM site.

Yes english is not my mother language.

If you're that good with computers then one may wonder why you are so interested in bringing down a player reporting problems instead of helping him secure his comp, especially when your intervent was completely unhelpful at anything but discrediting my word.

You don't want to attack me but you are accusing me of slandering and suddenly you transformed yourself from being a genial engineer in an expert and brilliant psycologist who can associate human beahviour even not knowing the patient, care to explain how could you know I am one of those who feel satisfied when slandering someone?

I started my first campaign where i put lots of work in it, I was happy I had found 3 players already and I'm sure they will confirm my good intentions on running a cool and hopefully funny campaign.
This campaign has been destroied thanks to the actions of that player.
Are you really sure I'm the one who feel better after this?

Also care to explain why I can partecipate to other 3 campaigns without any problems reported by the GMs, but i suddenly become a slanderer when running my first campaign?

And you are off topic again.

[LordTomar]

After I announced the end of my campaign because my system have been attacked, I intend now report the person I know is behind all this:

Nayr

I haven't any direct proofs about this, the only ones I have are the insulting chat messages (not through the ingame chat) I got from him and the analysis on my system i did after the facts.

I have the ingame chat log that shows some interesting things together with his bad behaviour against another player though.

Such interesting things led me to some conclusions about the reasons of his acts, in fact through the chat log it can be seen how annoied he was about my lack of available portraits for characters and my indifference about that, in fact i told him that for me we could have just used the portraits and tokens given by the game ( I actually like them more because they fit better in my maps for tactical movements ).
After that things got worse and after he accused me I had changed the stats of his character (that wasn't true obviously he did that by himself) my fg freezed along with my system.
As I restarted my system he suddenly sent me a chat message through yahoo saying this: "See what happens when you change the stats of my character?" and then he insulted me.

All this led me to the conclusions he is probably one of those guys who sell portraits and tokens to people and because of my indifference to that he wanted to threaten me without obviously touch any files of my campaign because he actually feed himself on those who have fun creating campaigns because players then buy portraits and tokens.

He managed to do some damage to my connection at the node level (the only one it can be directly remotely manipulated in my ISP network) and browsed through my windows registry using one of my many running processes (most likely the exe of FG though), plus, but i'm unsure about this one, he dropped a java archive or modified one in my cache of java objects (usually used by malware to track or redirect your movements through the net).

I'll be available to explain any details on these facts and for the chat log.

What I dont get is how you link his bad behaviour towards another player, then him being upset about the lack of tokens/portraits... then your system crash. To him being a seller of tokens/portraits?

To me those just seem like really big leaps. I mean did he ever say you should buy a certain portrait/token pack? Did he ever say that if you dont buy from so and so that something bad would happen?

Personaly I dont know enough about computers/internet anymore to know if he was able too... or did hack you to cause your problem. But to me it just seems like you are jumping to a conclusing with you saying that hes a seller of portraits.

Though again I have not seen any logs or anything... so he may have threatened you if you didnt buy pics.

[kalmarjan]

Okay,

This has really degenerated. Lets take a breath.... and think about things.

1) I will also concur about this problem player, as I had him in my campaign OUAT. While he did not do anything to my computer. (And I would know instantly), he was disruptive.

2) The person involved has not stepped forward to explain or deny. Lets leave it at that.

3) No offense, but a post that is stating "trust me, I know way more than you" is counter productive at best. I stopped believing you about 10 seconds after reading the post, as I saw that while you knew enough to be dangerous, you did not really know the whole scope of the alleged attack. And to state that it is not possible, well... if it makes you sleep at night, then all the power to you. Technically, anything is possible with networking unless you take measures to limit/inhibit access to your computer. We learn this time and time again.

4) FG is not to blame here. The actions of an individual are. Perhaps both sides are, who knows? I usually like to get the two sides of a situation before I jump to conclusions.

5) Your campaign is not ruined. Unless your DB.XML file was corrupted in this attack, it is all still there. Just restart.

6) If indeed this person found a way to damage your node, then set your ISP against them. Contact Yahoo, pend some action on him. Nothing curbs that activity like a corparation breathing down your neck. He may be very careful, but there is always some kind of tracks that you leave...

7) FUM has nothing to do with this. Pointe Finale

8) The guy was bitching about the lack of portraits. Not threatening him to buy them. I remember there was something else about the character sheet as well. Ach! Who cares? The guy is a munchkin. (I do have the right to say that, I have played with him before.)

Now, you wanted to report the actions of the player. Done. Several people have given their advice. Done. Several people have chimed in with their technical knowledge. Done.

Can we just leave this be? We all agree that this person is a munchkin, so let's leave it at that. :)

Cheers,

And happy playing,

Sandeman

[Hooray]

What I dont get is how you link his bad behaviour towards another player, then him being upset about the lack of tokens/portraits... then your system crash. To him being a seller of tokens/portraits?

To me those just seem like really big leaps. I mean did he ever say you should buy a certain portrait/token pack? Did he ever say that if you dont buy from so and so that something bad would happen?

Personaly I dont know enough about computers/internet anymore to know if he was able too... or did hack you to cause your problem. But to me it just seems like you are jumping to a conclusing with you saying that hes a seller of portraits.

Though again I have not seen any logs or anything... so he may have threatened you if you didnt buy pics.


the conclusions I got about him being related to the portraits market is a leap but not that big if you think about it, this is what i tought:

1) he's an adult and trained person because the story that a child can break through every system is just plain hollywood.

2) being an adult and trained person I tought what could someone in that position want from me since (being myself) i was sure I didn't anything bad against anyone here.

3) I decided to look for clues in his words and found that he was concerned about my lack of portraits, now I tought that you can appreciate portraits and tokens as much as you want but I don't think there's anyone who would screw an entire session just because of them, especially when the session hadn't either started (we actually plaied no more than 10 mins of my campaign).
This is my jump.

***chat logs***

they are just piles of junk because even a kid can edit them, time and date of editing included and I'll tell you how:

There's an html document in your main FG folder, open it with notepad, jump to the string you want to edit, edit, close the document.
if you want to add a completely new sentence it's either you know some very but very basic html coding or just copy and paste the tags of a string that looks like the one you want to add before and after the sentence you want to add, just remember to add the / symbol to each tags on the right side of the sentence.
As per the date it's either you change it in your desktop clock and then edit the file or just access your campaign through FG and it will create both the new sentence in the chat log and will adjust the date to coincide with your new access so you just need to declare you had to edit something in your campaign after the fact you want to report through the chat log.

I still have the chat log but it can be edited so it wont constitute a proof for anything.

I knew reporting all this was just a waste of time in fact I decided to report only several days after the facts just because I was suggested to do so, and I actually thought I'd have found help.

Bad idea.

Now please close, burn, erase, kill, digitally lobotomyze this thread because it's no more of any use and I'm not going to loose any more of my time because of that.

[LordTomar]

the conclusions I got about him being related to the portraits market is a leap but not that big if you think about it, this is what i tought:

1) he's an adult and trained person because the story that a child can break through every system is just plain hollywood.

2) being an adult and trained person I tought what could someone in that position want from me since (being myself) i was sure I didn't anything bad against anyone here.

3) I decided to look for clues in his words and found that he was concerned about my lack of portraits, now I tought that you can appreciate portraits and tokens as much as you want but I don't think there's anyone who would screw an entire session just because of them, especially when the session hadn't either started (we actually plaied no more than 10 mins of my campaign).
This is my jump.



Your who conclusion is based on a world where everything people do has a purpose. Now unfortunatly this is not true.

Now your whole idea is that his purpose is to cause you or any other DM that he plays for to purchase portraits from his or his associats with these attack. Now the reality, these attacks would cause more people to give up online tabletop gaming, not make them want to go out and buy portraits.

Now with your idea that he is a trained individual and planed this all out to get people to guy portraits, then he would have to know that his attacks would drive people away instead of cause them to want to buy something. Now this would be bad for the genre, causing people to give up on it, wich in turn would hurt his bottom line.

Now this is just my idea. Maybe im giving the guy more credit then hes due, and he would have no idea that he would drive people away and not to buy his product. My view is that if he did attack your system, Im still not 100% sure on this (but I know your are), then I think he had no other purpose other then causing problems for people for their own entertainment. (in my experience this is far more common)

[devinnight]

ok, shoot me for this post.

if you do a search for Nayr on these forums...
you will find that he is 12 years old and in grade school/highschool.
he may be in a campaign, for fun you could contact the other DM that he played with and see if he is still playing. I see no connections to portraits anywhere, he doesn't have a sig or a single post where he is promoting anything.

However I thought Kalmarjans post was enough to end this thread.
-Devin

[kalmarjan]

I thought so too. :(

Sometimes the voice of reason just is not enough. :)

Sandeman

[dLANbandit]

Not to keep this thread going but I can't resist.

I told you he was no professional hacker.

[Hooray]

Damn it you are so evil, you keep arguing with a 1 year hold baby, look at my profile and tell me it isn't true I swear I'm 1 year old.

Sorry couldn't resist either.

Anyone can suggest a new age for tomorrow??

[devinnight]

look, we all realize everything on the net can be questioned.
The post that Nayr made was before he had reason to believe people (you) were after him.
So, either you were hacked by a 12 year old (go Hollywood), or you experienced a coincidental crash, or a hacker getting you for some other reason, maybe because you like to argue how brilliant you are.
:)

-D

[Hooray]

Just for the sake of correctness I hope your hospitality wouldn't mind if I completely disagree and believe the guy just put the first age he had in mind like for example I always do in such cases because I cant care less of age.

And being a child is usefull in sooo many circumstances...:)

[Ged]

There can't be much more to be said on this issue; while discussion is still pretty civil, I'll close the thread. If the player accused of bad behaviour wants to step in for his/her defenece, please pm (send a private message to) me, and I'll reopen the thread for a while.

In the meanwhile... let's just keep gaming :)