PDA

View Full Version : Module Making Beginning to End



rob2e
October 7th, 2018, 18:40
Hello Everyone:

Here is a PDF and .mod file that encompass what I think is all the steps to making a module for Fantasy Grounds. It is complete (in my estimation) and there is a video as well...

YouTube Link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HXhjvOJJww)

LordEntrails
October 7th, 2018, 18:58
Very nice. I look forward to the video.

A couple of questions/comments;
- Under Tools You Will Need, you have a typo "Toeken"
- Any thought on addressing duplicating items from other sources and/or linking to them and the differences both in FG and in regards to Intellectual Property?
- Any thought of addressing image unidentified names?
- If it matters (it doesn't) your description on Create Acne doesn't match.
- Maybe a followup to this on creating this same content as a Reference Manual and adding it to the created module?

rob2e
October 7th, 2018, 19:32
Very nice. I look forward to the video.

A couple of questions/comments;
- Under Tools You Will Need, you have a typo "Toeken" - Fixed
- Any thought on addressing duplicating items from other sources and/or linking to them and the differences both in FG and in regards to Intellectual Property? - No idea what this refers to
- Any thought of addressing image unidentified names? - No, this will be basic and not cover nuances like that
- If it matters (it doesn't) your description on Create Acne doesn't match. - You're right, it doesn't
- Maybe a followup to this on creating this same content as a Reference Manual and adding it to the created module? - Again ref man is a nuance that won't be covered, yet might be MENTIONED here.

LordEntrails
October 8th, 2018, 00:46
- Any thought on addressing duplicating items from other sources and/or linking to them and the differences both in FG and in regards to Intellectual Property? - No idea what this refers to
So, I put this forth in part because it may or may not be something you want to address. (Note, all of these are really only ideas or things to think of in case you haven't. By no means am I implying you should be including these things.)

What I'm referring to is if in the Dev/Build campaign you copy an item from another source (say a magic item from the SRD) it then gets included in your module as a standalone object. But, if you only link to the item, then the future user of the module has to also have the SRD open when they click on the link to that magic item.

Now, if you only want to address purely a conversation from a PDF into FG, then no need to discuss this. But, if you want to address the possibility of shortening the effort by re-using content from other modules, then, this might be something to address. And the IP side of it of course is only important if someone wants to re-distribute the module.



- Maybe a followup to this on creating this same content as a Reference Manual and adding it to the created module? - Again ref man is a nuance that won't be covered, yet might be MENTIONED here.
I meant in terms of a separate document or doc/video set, not as part of this one, because you're right, that's not basic :)

rob2e
October 8th, 2018, 00:48
Ah gotcha, I may or may not refer to that, but probably won't include it in the example.

LordEntrails
October 8th, 2018, 00:55
That's cool :)
This will be a great addition to the community!

Bidmaron
October 8th, 2018, 02:32
Can't wait to see it!

GavinRuneblade
October 8th, 2018, 05:57
This looks like a great project. Thank you for taking the time!

GavinRuneblade
October 9th, 2018, 06:02
A quick question with a not-so-quick answer: Is there any existing guidance on the legalities of creating and selling original content in existing game systems?

Like, people use the DMsguild to make original adventures, classes, etc and sell them. The entire d20 and 2d20 systems are full of companies and individuals making and selling products. But for someone thinking of getting started and wanting to make an adventure module for fantasy grounds is there anywhere to go to learn what is legal and what is not for any given game (not just D&D, I mean any game)?

For example Call of Cthulhu is a trademarked name by chaosium, but everything here: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Author:Howard_Phillips_Lovecraft is public domain either by age or by Lovecraft's intent. And I understand you cannot trademark nor copywrite a stat block. So, in theory, keeping only to information from those public books and using exclusively original stats for NPCs one could legally publish content for essentially any of the multiple Cthulhu RPGs. But you can't put "compatible with Call of Cthulhu" on the cover without Chaosium's permission. In theory. Is there an actual guide to information like this for someone who wants to make content for FG or any other VTT?

donpaulo
October 9th, 2018, 06:40
Yup, I'm watching it right now

Thanks !

damned
October 9th, 2018, 07:27
A quick question with a not-so-quick answer: Is there any existing guidance on the legalities of creating and selling original content in existing game systems?

Like, people use the DMsguild to make original adventures, classes, etc and sell them. The entire d20 and 2d20 systems are full of companies and individuals making and selling products. But for someone thinking of getting started and wanting to make an adventure module for fantasy grounds is there anywhere to go to learn what is legal and what is not for any given game (not just D&D, I mean any game)?

For example Call of Cthulhu is a trademarked name by chaosium, but everything here: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Author:Howard_Phillips_Lovecraft is public domain either by age or by Lovecraft's intent. And I understand you cannot trademark nor copywrite a stat block. So, in theory, keeping only to information from those public books and using exclusively original stats for NPCs one could legally publish content for essentially any of the multiple Cthulhu RPGs. But you can't put "compatible with Call of Cthulhu" on the cover without Chaosium's permission. In theory. Is there an actual guide to information like this for someone who wants to make content for FG or any other VTT?

Copyright is a murky field best left to lawyers.

You can convert anything you like into Fantasy Grounds formatted material for your own use. This is perfectly ok to use in your online games.
If you want to share the material with anyone else as a .mod file or any other format you must read the products Copyright/License notice and comply with it in full.
If you are unable to do that, do not wish to do that or do not understand the copyright/license notice then you are not permitted to share the material.


Statblocks cannot be protected. Descriptive text can be. Unique names can be.

In terms of publishing here on FG there is only an avenue for existing publishers to get their work hosted on the FG store.
If it is something you are doing and want to do commercially you should do it on the RPGNow.com website and they will automatically deduct a license fee for SmiteWorks.
Otherwise you will need to negotiate your own license.
Once you are established you will find negotiating your own license simpler.

GavinRuneblade
October 10th, 2018, 06:45
Copyright is a murky field best left to lawyers.

You can convert anything you like into Fantasy Grounds formatted material for your own use. This is perfectly ok to use in your online games.
If you want to share the material with anyone else as a .mod file or any other format you must read the products Copyright/License notice and comply with it in full.
If you are unable to do that, do not wish to do that or do not understand the copyright/license notice then you are not permitted to share the material.


Statblocks cannot be protected. Descriptive text can be. Unique names can be.

In terms of publishing here on FG there is only an avenue for existing publishers to get their work hosted on the FG store.
If it is something you are doing and want to do commercially you should do it on the RPGNow.com website and they will automatically deduct a license fee for SmiteWorks.
Otherwise you will need to negotiate your own license.
Once you are established you will find negotiating your own license simpler.

That sounds a lot less friendly than this thread (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?11156-Want-to-produce-official-FG-products-adventures-rulesets). Did something change where the offer of support for community made adventures has been revoked?

And I did find this page of legal guidance (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/cc/0/default) for many different rulesets over on Drivethru. Be nice if more companies were included but that is a pretty good selection.

Trenloe
October 10th, 2018, 07:58
Essentially, this can't be covered by one single rule for all RPG systems and situations. Each RPG system publisher has their own guidelines/requirements for publishing content for their systems - whether it's under an OGL/CC license, or something else - they'll all have guidelines as to what names and logos you can use on your own products.

If you want to put *anything* in the FG store you'll need to discuss that with SmiteWorks first, whether the product is 100% your own creation or a conversion from an existing product. If you have a specific question email SmiteWorks on [email protected] to discuss details - I'd recommend having a specific development goal in mind - i.e. what system and exactly what you want to produce, rather than a broad generalised query.

damned
October 10th, 2018, 09:38
That sounds a lot less friendly than this thread (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?11156-Want-to-produce-official-FG-products-adventures-rulesets). Did something change where the offer of support for community made adventures has been revoked?

And I did find this page of legal guidance (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/cc/0/default) for many different rulesets over on Drivethru. Be nice if more companies were included but that is a pretty good selection.

As above - converting content of established publishers can be done for the FG store. It does need SmiteWorks to have a license with the Publisher.
At this time (I believe it is primarily a resourcing challenge for SW) creating your own work in FG format should be published on RPGNow - or in the case of 5E material RPGNow or DMsGuild.

You absolutely can approach SW with other proposals.

GavinRuneblade
October 11th, 2018, 08:37
Essentially, this can't be covered by one single rule for all RPG systems and situations. Each RPG system publisher has their own guidelines/requirements for publishing content for their systems - whether it's under an OGL/CC license, or something else - they'll all have guidelines as to what names and logos you can use on your own products.
I think you misunderstood the intent of the question. Multiple sites or sources of info is great. Needing to ask to get anything, IE not having a published set of guidelines is a barrier. I, personally, suck horridly at even basic searches and I know I'm not alone in this. Hence asking does anyone know of published sources of guidance. With help, I found one source that had guidance for many companies. Are there any others that people know about? Adding such information to Rob's instructions seems like a great combination if the intention is for people to actually make mods that can be distributed as opposed to ones that are just for themselves. My understanding is that posting any mod that might violate copyright is forbidden even if it is not for sale. So knowing the guidance for people's favorite games seems relevant information to have in a tutorial on how to make mods for those games otherwise people cannot even share what mods they do make in their games' forums rendering Rob's tutorial extremely limited in its usefulness.


If you want to put *anything* in the FG store you'll need to discuss that with SmiteWorks first, whether the product is 100% your own creation or a conversion from an existing product. If you have a specific question email SmiteWorks on [email protected] to discuss details - I'd recommend having a specific development goal in mind - i.e. what system and exactly what you want to produce, rather than a broad generalised query.

In terms of publishing here on FG there is only an avenue for existing publishers to get their work hosted on the FG store.


One thing I aspire to is to build up the number of readily available rulesets, adventures and accessories. I expect most of these will come from the community, like they do today. There are problems with the current model though. Developers/users desperately want to share their hard work with the community but they are hampered by the unknown of whether or not their work infringes upon anyone else' Intellectual Property. I would like to assist in the process by working directly with the publishers to gain approval for anything which uses their IP or which might infringe upon their IP. If something is cool but uses any of their actual IP, then the publisher needs to have final approval and then receive royalties. If it doesn't require royalties, then we will have received verification from the publisher to that effect. (at least that is the idea)
Damned's quote above seems to be the direct opposite of what Ddavison proposed. Now, he proposed it back in 2009, a loooooooooong time ago. I think it is reasonable to ask, is that offer still valid, because if it is, that same location (from 2009) has instructions indicating which publishers are open to cooperating with SW and SW gave a series of steps how to begin that starts exactly where you said: talking to him.

But, if Damned is correct and the ONLY way to get a mod on the FG store is to publish first somewhere else then I think that fact needs to be linked to Rob's instructions so people don't invest a lot of time and energy making a mod then get disappointed they can't share it and go to drivethru as a consolation prize. If they know upfront the process starting with drivethru will be a stepping stone used happily. Much behavioral economics research has documented that few things get us to abandon effort as effectively as taking away our hoped-for reward. So setting correct expectations strikes me as valuable.

I imagine a simple list of links, sort of like the awesome GM resources thread (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?36014-GM-Advice) LordEntrails made, where companies that are open to working with SW (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?11156-Want-to-produce-official-FG-products-adventures-rulesets&p=80392&viewfull=1#post80392) and have guidance for publishing (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/cc/0/default) are on top, and those that have only guidance or only a willingness to work with SW have their own sections. Using just a minimal number of the games/companies a sample/starting point might look like:

Relationship with SmiteWorks and Existing Guidance on Publishing Content
Call of Cthulu (FG link (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?11156-Want-to-produce-official-FG-products-adventures-rulesets&p=80392&viewfull=1#post80392) / Guidance (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/cc/16/Miskatonic))
WOIN (FG link (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/store/?sys=21&pub=-1&typ=-1&search=&sort=1) / Guidance (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/cc/14/WOIN))

Willing to work with SmiteWorks to get content for Fantasy Grounds, but no guidance for publishing content
Iron Crown Enterprises / Rolemaster Standard System (Link (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?11156-Want-to-produce-official-FG-products-adventures-rulesets&p=80731&viewfull=1#post80731))

Guidance for publishing content but no relationship with SmiteWorks/Fantasy Grounds
Infiniverse Exchange/Torg (Link (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/cc/15/Infiniverse))

Am I crazy or does this not seem like something more than half of the people interested in Rob's tutorial might want to have access to? Even if they don't think about selling something here on Fantasy Grounds' store because their first product might not be all that great, it is something to aspire to and work towards. That should, in the long run, help out a lot of games that right now are very limited in what is available. Without it, as I understand, people cannot even share a mod on the forum, right?

Trenloe
October 11th, 2018, 09:35
Am I crazy or does this not seem like something more than half of the people interested in Rob's tutorial might want to have access to?
No, I don't think you're crazy. I just think that this, as far as Fantasy Grounds is concerned, is something that you should engage with SmiteWorks directly about. A group of people on the Internet putting together a bunch of links (some nearly 10 years old as you mention) is not going to get the current situation or thinking - which can and does change regularly.

damned
October 11th, 2018, 10:35
A quick question with a not-so-quick answer: Is there any existing guidance on the legalities of creating and selling original content in existing game systems?


But, if Damned is correct and the ONLY way to get a mod on the FG store is to publish first somewhere else


Damned's quote above seems to be the direct opposite of what Ddavison proposed.

I think your question has changed over time and that is not helping the situation.


One thing I aspire to is to build up the number of readily available rulesets, adventures and accessories. I expect most of these will come from the community, like they do today. There are problems with the current model though. Developers/users desperately want to share their hard work with the community but they are hampered by the unknown of whether or not their work infringes upon anyone else' Intellectual Property. I would like to assist in the process by working directly with the publishers to gain approval for anything which uses their IP or which might infringe upon their IP. If something is cool but uses any of their actual IP, then the publisher needs to have final approval and then receive royalties. If it doesn't require royalties, then we will have received verification from the publisher to that effect. (at least that is the idea)

No one can stop you creating AND publishing original content for any game system. Being able to use that Game Systems logos or name in your product is a whole different ball park. Original content is not what Doug is referring to above. Doug is referring to (example) converting The Masks of Nyarlathotep for Call of Cthulhu or the Jade Regent Adventure Path for Pathfinder or creating a ruleset and reference book for The Dark Eye. All of these have some sort of existing agreement between the Publisher(s) (Chaosium, Paizo and Ulisses) and SmiteWorks (exact details unknown and probably irrelevant at this stage) allowing SmiteWorks to publish high quality conversions of these products into FG format.

If you want to create original content then you need to publish it somewhere or thru someone (or both). SmiteWorks do not currently accept original content from otherwise unknown publishers at this time. You can explore this possibility with them. In the past they have directed those who wish to publish their own original content in the direction of One Book Shelf and publish it on either the main arm - rpgnow/drivethrurpg along with the restrictions and conditions imposed by OBS or on DMsGuild - again along with relevant restrictions and conditions. OBS have a licensing agreement with SmiteWorks and they will give SW their commission. This avoids SW from having to engage in licensing arrangements with lots of small publishers who may or may not publish significant volume.

If you want to convert existing material that SmiteWorks have a license for (examples include those above plus a bunch of Savage Worlds, Castles and Crusades and others) contact support@ and they can discuss what you want to do and share some titles that are already approved for conversion. If you want to do something that is not with one of those publishers it becomes a lot harder. Most rulesets never get fully completed or completed to a high enough quality to become commercial rulesets. So SmiteWorks generally are not keen on approaching a Publisher to do a deal on a ruleset unless they have something that is already 70% done otherwise they burn bridges and waste many peoples time if it doesnt complete. So that puts a big onus and risk on the developer as they may build the ruleset and a license might not be negotiated.

The links to the OBS publishers pages are great. And they are typically different from publisher to publisher. Essentially this:


Essentially, this can't be covered by one single rule for all RPG systems and situations. Each RPG system publisher has their own guidelines/requirements for publishing content for their systems - whether it's under an OGL/CC license, or something else - they'll all have guidelines as to what names and logos you can use on your own products.

I think that my statement is pretty accurate:


You can convert anything you like into Fantasy Grounds formatted material for your own use. This is perfectly ok to use in your online games.
If you want to share the material with anyone else as a .mod file or any other format you must read the products Copyright/License notice and comply with it in full.
If you are unable to do that, do not wish to do that or do not understand the copyright/license notice then you are not permitted to share the material.

It has nothing to do with original content. It is totally about other peoples IP. In regards to the middle line - if SW have a license to publish a high quality conversion and thats what you do in partnership with SW then you are complying with the products License.

I hope that helps.

GavinRuneblade
October 13th, 2018, 19:19
I think your question has changed over time and that is not helping the situation.
My way of expressing it has, the intention didn't, but your point is still equally valid.

Also the rest of those answers were very helpful. Thanks!

Seaners
April 16th, 2020, 05:13
Having trouble locating the extensions you list. I've got CSV Table Importer MK, but can't seem to find Table Parser.

mattekure
April 16th, 2020, 13:37
Having trouble locating the extensions you list. I've got CSV Table Importer MK, but can't seem to find Table Parser.

This is the other table one. https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?40812-5E-Table-Importer

Seaners
April 16th, 2020, 16:01
Great! Thank you!