Want a FG module of Dragonlance DL1 Dragons of Despair?

[Vodkard]

How would you like a Fantasy Grounds module of the very first Dragonlance module: DL1 Dragons of Flame? I make FG conversions on the DMsGuild, but in order to sell them I can’t have any copyrighted material and it has to be in Faerûn. But recently, I talked with an expert and learned that I can give you a version I made that has everything and is in Krynn. How you may ask? You have to buy three PDFs from DMsGuild. They are:

1. My FG module
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/249105
2. The original module
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/16880/DL1-Dragons-of-Despair-1e?term=dl1+dra&test_epoch=0&it=1
3. Dragonlance 3.5 Campaign Book
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/28592/Dragonlance-Campaign-Setting-35?term=Dragonlance+camp&test_epoch=0&it=1

If you send me a screenshot of your DMsGuild library showing you own these, I can legally send you a fully working (and amazingly beautiful) copy of DL1 Dragons of Flame with all sorts of added materials like an explanation of all the gods, a breakdown of all the languages I added to the module, new class, all the races were turned into DL versions, and much more!
How is this legal? Let’s say you buy those three PDFs. Then I go to your house and make the module for you. That’s legal and so is this since it’s the same thing in essence. I’m just skipping the part where I come to your house.
Just sharing the love. So if you’re interested, send me a private message!

[Trenloe]

... but in order to sell them I can’t have any copyrighted material and it has to be in Faerûn.


If you send me a screenshot of your DMsGuild library showing you own these, I can legally send you a fully working (and amazingly beautiful) copy of DL1 Dragons of Flame with all sorts of added materials like an explanation of all the gods, a breakdown of all the languages I added to the module, new class, all the races were turned into DL versions, and much more!
Does this module you're providing contain copyright material? If so, you can't share that legally - it doesn't matter if someone owns the original material.

I'm guessing that this "expert" you talked to said that if someone owned the original material, then you can give them that material in another form? Otherwise, you wouldn't be asking people to buy it.

The first page of the DL1 PDF states: "This module is produced under the copyright laws of the United States of America. Any reproduction or other unauthorized use of the material or artwork contained herein is prohibited without the express written permission of TSR Inc." You can't reproduce this content and give it to anyone else without breaking copyright - it doesn't matter if they own the original product, and it also doesn't matter if you aren't charging for it.

Assuming the FG module you offer contains copyright protected material: What you do privately is up to you - i.e. going to someone's house and making the material for them. That would still break copyright laws, but we would be unaware of that and you're not publicly offering that service here. Advertising on these forums for people to PM you to get this FG module is not permissible - assuming it contains copyright material.

[Vodkard]

Ah! Gotcha. I was totally mislead then. What a shame. Thanks though for the heads up! Never mind folks, haha

[Trenloe]

It's great that you were looking for ways to provide this material legally. But, as you say, it looks like you were misled. :(

[lbkoerich]

It is a pity that we do not have any Dragonlance adventures fo FG yet. I played a lot of Drangonlance in the 90's and I'm eager to DM the classics to the new generartion of VT players. However I don't have te time to convert everything to FG. Well, in fact I'm doing it (bought all AD&D books for FG), but at a very, very slow pace.

[midn8t]

It is a pity that we do not have any Dragonlance adventures fo FG yet. I played a lot of Drangonlance in the 90's and I'm eager to DM the classics to the new generartion of VT players. However I don't have te time to convert everything to FG. Well, in fact I'm doing it (bought all AD&D books for FG), but at a very, very slow pace.

I know this is old post but information is not all exactly correct in this form so here you go.

copy right law TSR does not exsit any more and copy right only last x number of years so unless company re liinced the copy right it turns into fair use.

wizards of cost does not i belive own rights to dragonlance it self orignaly was created by marget and tracy hickmen but anyways that being side you can always take the DND gold box and convert them into fantsy ground campaigns or use the game world and make it 5e and then make your own storys in that world setting that would be fair use also.

al of old TSR gold box games are free and even sold on GOG by people who made them to work for windows 10 general rule of thumb is copyright protection lasts for the life of the author for DND anything that is 1st and 2nd is free use and dragonlance was orginaly made in 2nd edition Gary Gygax died so that stuff he made is fair use, TSR is dead so anything they have is pretty much fair use, wizards bought some of stuff but as for dragonlance that world was created by tracy hickman and margaret weis, I have talked to margaret weis my self through her email there still writting dragonlance books and expanding the world out side of wizards of cost. as of right now margaret Weis owns has the rights for the IP still currently even thought wizards picked up rights they refuse to do anything with them and left them in the hands of margaret so really i belive you would just have to send her email and be like hay can I write a campaig story for dragonlance for fantasy grounds.


intresting history dragonlance orginated with 1st edition DND for most part in WI lake geneave and margaret Weis still lives here in my home state and her headquarters for her dragonlance game settings is out of Margaret Weis Productions https://margaretweis.com/

she also has the sole rights to publish Dragonlance Chronicles so and all chars so forth with in.

as for copyright orginal authors always maintain rights till death.

and as stated wizards has no intrest in the IP also they refuse to USE ip even thought they blantly steal from the IP example dragonborone are draconian but they had to change name and stats and how they where created same with there goddess Tamara they can not say that they get it form that and have to by law say its diff god so forth but anyone knows back story of these things know where they got it from.

ather reason there is 4th 5th and so forth editions for wizards becuase they can not creat 1st 2nd or 3rd edition stuff. those IP are free use or use stuff to sell they have to import from those the ideas then make alot of changes to be able to call it there own and sell it.

when comes to IPs when copy right falls off even thought new owners usally get rights to make new content that is diff but uses same IP but they the old IP material always belongs to old author made it if that authro is dead then that ip kind goes into limbo in way old part does becuase it turns into free use public domain in way if it is sold for monies, then the kids of the orginal author make monie off of it.. for example music rights. author dies or is around you can free use and make a new style of same music but you cant recreat key for key old records and re sell it use orignal voice or what not with out paying family members who are still alive. if no one is alive then u pay no one if you have IP you can creat a new song based off of the lyrics make few changes and then sell it but you can not may a 1 for 1 copy and sell it it would have to be giving free. if you made monie you have to pay fees to family of author


so answear is you can make a dragonlance campaign setting based in the time line before wizards of cost got hold of it and you can cant use any of authros orginal storys or anything wiht out there okay, but you can use the old information that is public domain now and create your own 5e is owned by wizards so if you convert it you would not premission to use there rules but if they allow any one to convert anything then you dont beucase then its just expressed that you can.. you would not be able to make dollar off of it thought.

also if you released it free work you soloy did becomes auto copyrighted to you meaning someone elese could not use what you did with out asking you also nether of you could make monie on stuff that was orginaly used but if for example they liked your story or char that you wrote about you could request monie for use of that part that you created.

IP and copy rights can get very confusing even large companys stuff wrong for example wingcommand IP is in perment limbo due to copy rights issue that company bought IP cant use any of game world due to authors rights to the copyright IP

that would be EA vs chris roberts vs rex maidment vs frank savage all own parts of the IP in diff ways making it so no one can do anything with it at all.

same with the PC game Fear IP thats in limbo due to same issues.

[damned]

This is incorrect on so many levels but we will just address the basic premise on which you started.

As a general rule, for works created after January 1, 1978, copyright protection lasts for the life of the author plus an additional 70 years.
https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-duration.html#:~:text=As%20a%20general%20rule%2C%2 0for,plus%20an%20additional%2070%20years.

[midn8t]

that is what people go by, but its not law and it also dosnt cover fair usage and or been held legal in court, sorry didnt know you where on bar like I my self used to be and also worked on legal cases involving copy right info with in the USA, also marget wise does have the IP for dragonlance and for putting out new info on it and dnd 1 and 2nd is free usage which is why it can be given away and is along wiht all the DND gold box edition which are now considered abandon ware.

be ether way you can use copy right materials as along as you do not make monie off of it period.

it is written right into all copyrights. its called fair usage its law it also states in copyright that copyrights can shall not be heavily enforced what usally always ends up happen is all party end up agree on a split of profits if there is profits made or agreement of how the items will be used and or what partys will be able to use what items.

and yes marget wise has the rights to the IP of dragonlance and wizards of cost has rights to 5E so yes if he was to make monie off of a campaign setting he would need to ask permission from both wizzards for 5E and from marget on writting a story for the campaign

no he would not have to ask any premission to turn gold box edition game form TSR into 5e if he was not selling it. yes he could take gold box edition rewrite it to run on windows and sell it on GOG which has already been done by a none wizards of cost company and yes you can download most of all the TSR games off as of abandon ware for free.


most important part of your qoute is this part "As a general rule", "meaning this is not the law." for works created after January 1, 1978, copyright protection lasts for the life of the author plus an additional 70 years.

2nd part of that is that DND was "not created after 1978" it was before 1978 bettween 1972

so he can easily make his own around that time period campign setting as for dragonlance that is copyrighted she have to aprove it but anything that is 1st edition which was used for dragonlance originally is fair usage and old gold box games IP where owned by SSI not TSR


anyways here the law that DND and some of the SSI falls under

How long does a copyright last for works published or registered before 1992 This is where copyright law gets tricky. Before 1978 and 1992, works had to be published or registered to be eligible for copyright protection, and then renewed in the 28th year after publication for another 28 years. Without a renewal, the work would enter the public domain. This requirement was abolished in 1992 at which case they also changed copy right law but added "fair use," the law allows the use of portions of copyrighted work without permission from the owner. Fair use is a defense to copyright infringement. This means that an unauthorized use of copyrighted material is excusable if it falls under the principle of fair us

which allow you some ability to use copyright stuff with out making monies on it.


what so what would be fair use well pretty much what i said before but ill breack it down

you can use copyright material as along as it equals any of these things or to some extent all of these things.

1. only small portion of orginal material is used - meaning you make changes to it
2. new work is critquied or for education use to learn
3. benefit to user is predomiantly other than commercial meaning you dont make monie
4. commercial value of thee orginal is not disminished meaning you are not hurting sales of that product you are using copy right stuff from
5. new work is predominantly original product of the user

that is the law of fair use and give you right to use copyright matirel with out asking permission. -> that is the law in USA anyways


copy right infringements are almost impossible to take to court and majority of time they are dealt with out of court and sides come to agreement, majority of time scare tatics are used.

something elese people need to understand is that every country in world has there own copyright laws and rules thats why that above thing gives you rule of thumb but sense dnd was in USA and in WI you can go by USA law.

[Trenloe]

be ether way you can use copy right materials as along as you do not make monie off of it period.
As SmiteWorks is a registered US company, they need to adhere to US laws. In the USA copyright applies no matter if money exchanges hands or not. You cannot distribute copyright material for free, or otherwise, without the consent of the copyright holder.

You go on to talk about fair use, and your final bullet points can be applied to some material. But you can't make a blanket statement (using "period" implies that what you say is 100% applicable no matter what) saying that copyright doesn't apply if someone distributes that material for free. That is simply incorrect. Why do we see many C&D orders issued when people use copyright material on free YouTube Videos? Because you can't redistribute, reformat, etc. copyright protected material for free. What you are basically saying is that piracy is legal. Err, no.

[Trenloe]

... sorry didnt know you where on bar like I my self used to be and also worked on legal cases involving copy right info with in the USA ...
Sorry, you may have been these things but I seriously doubt it. Your posts are classic examples of what to look for in scam/phishing communications. Incorrect grammar, spelling and capitalization being the main things. Just one example: if you truly did work on copyright legal cases, I'd think you'd be able to reliably use "copyright" rather than use "copy right" interchangeably within your post. Plus, the inaccuracies in what you're posting. So, unless I see any serious evidence - backed up by verifiable sources, I doubt what you're claiming is true. And I completely disagree with your claims about copyright (see my post above).

[damned]

sorry didnt know you where on bar like I my self used to be and also worked on legal cases involving copy right info with in the USA

it sounds like you must have been very good at it too.

https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ15a.pdf

Automatic Renewal and Voluntary Registration
Works originally copyrighted between January 1, 1964, and December 31, 1977. Congress amended the copyright law on June 26, 1992, to automatically renew the copyright in these works and to make renewal registration for them optional. Their copyright term is still divided between a 28-year original term and a 67-year renewal term, but a renewal registration is not required to secure the renewal copyright.

Fair Use does not concern itself with "if he was not selling it". You can sell or make money from works that fall under Fair Use.

Abandonware does not imply a lack of copyright. It may mean that the copyright holder is not actively enforcing their rights.

[midn8t]

Sorry, you may have been these things but I seriously doubt it. Your posts are classic examples of what to look for in scam/phishing communications. Incorrect grammar, spelling and capitalization being the main things. Just one example: if you truly did work on copyright legal cases, I'd think you'd be able to reliably use "copyright" rather than use "copy right" interchangeably within your post. Plus, the inaccuracies in what you're posting. So, unless I see any serious evidence - backed up by verifiable sources, I doubt what you're claiming is true. And I completely disagree with your claims about copyright (see my post above).


no really, see people get confused with copyright laws, trademark laws and also patents game system has mechanics of a game system would need a patent - logo or a picture would need a trademark for exmaple you can warhammer 40,000 has there space marines trade marked so you can not use term space marine in any game system or even pictures of there space marines of what they look like.

copyrights are not as clear written and thats why fair usage matters.

if you want you system locked you need pay price for it for each thing, anther example old turmpy trademarked term your fired for while.

games workshop is prime company for use thought because they carry a lot of trade marks and patents on there games workshop items and game mechanics.

old mechanics do not get grandfathered in to new laws for example - car past a certain date do not need seat belts old material like 1st edition and some dnd thing you do not need premission for and you can and fair usage is a law - i pretty much qouted it for you even it is so confuseing that even you tube gets stuff wrong.

for example game companys all time take down videos of people displaying images and video records and then they have to put it up back up because it falls under the fair usage rules angry joe does game reviews has a huge video about it and has also fought aginst game company that think that copyright is a clear winner

you need get patent and trade mark you names words and terms for game rules and items in game. just like games workshop does and you have to pay those fees every so often to keep those things protected.

[midn8t]

anyways i pretty clearly written out law on copyrights before 1992 even gave you the old law word for word which 1st edition falls under, i also explain how game system are protect via trade marks for terms in the game system and how game mechanics are protected not by a copyright but patent, and i explained word for word how copyrights are only there to protect profits on sales and what determines fair usage - argue with it all you want nice thing about truth is that it does not change the facts.

I even game you good examples of game of company that uses patents for there game mechanics and how they use trade marks to protect the copyright of word that define things in there game system and how they do not rely on copyrights and i gave you example of how on youtube fair usage allows people to use copyright mats in there videos for reviews. meaning there taking copyright mats and making it there own and making profit because by fair usage it does not compete against the game developer by them making profits of sale of exact same item which would be a video game.

also lawyer do not write we have people who do that for us all we do is make case in court and let peers and or judge determine result our cases are handed to us pre-written.

anyways aruge all you want does not change fact

which is what i said

if you wanted to make 5e dragonlance

ask marget wise if you can write a story for a campaign of your own choseing and use some of her materials

and if you make it around 1st edition you do not have to ask wizards of cost for permission

if you want to use 5th edition then u need to ask wizards of cost -> but grey area is if you are making a profit or not and fact that dragonlance rules are made for you to create create your own storys based around worlds that already exist and all modules are meant to be used like this. - so copyright be hard sell in court of law on its own.

sense intent of the core games any edition is for people to take content from those core games and use them in there own settings. as for images they would have to use trademark laws.


anyways i am done here cuz your incorrect and wrong on so many levels it not even funny its almost like talking to a wall so i am unsubscribing to this think what you want it wont change fact 1 copyright laws are not sure thing and two the intent of DND is for people to use there resources in there settings.

the part that is sticky is the books that authors write and pure storys of those campign settings which if you wrote you own you would be fine.

i would just email marget wise and ask her if you could write a dragonlance story for your setting if she says yes then you can.

I even told you how get in contact with her and her company that owns right to it.



one last thing art work has its own rules and laws when comes with copy rights, you seen art for sale like the picture of the bar dogs so you can take art work that is copyrighted you can make changes to it like the picture of the dogs at bar with hollween mask but it can not be same size and exactly same picture and has to be marked as so such.

artwork is protected by trademarks and patents and also original art work you can not reproduce to exact same measurements and design because and sell it or make print and sell it or take one of original prints and recopy and sell it - you have to put on the artwork that its reproduction of original and change its size. so that it does not effect value of the original artwork

[Trenloe]

anyways i pretty clearly written out law on copyrights[
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{rambling}
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anyways aruge all you want does not change fact
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Just because someone (i.e. you) writes something anonymously in a public forum on the internet doesn't suddenly make it fact. You've copy/pasted some things direct from some web pages (we can tell that because the spelling, grammar and capitalization is correct), but other statements are simply not true. Just because some random guy on the internet says it's true doesn't make it so. You seen to think that distributing something covered by copyright without charge is legal ("period"!), which gives everyone with even a slight understanding of this no confidence in any of your words. Plus you seem to think "fair use" would allow someone to completely copy the Dragonlance AD&D 1e adventure content and distribute it (that's what this thread is about). This blows out of the water 4 of the 5 bullet points for fair use you list in post #8. So, yet again, you fail to understand the law and its application - even as you wrote it earlier!



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anyways i am done here cuz your incorrect and wrong on so many levels
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I'm glad you're done. I'll close this thread now. We don't want anyone on these forums getting any strange ideas about being able to illegally redistribute copyright protected material, even for no charge.

Important! Anyone reading this thread please understand that "fair use" of any copyright protected material is very limited (both in scope and size of material that can be quoted) - certainly not enough to convert a RPG product to Fantasy Grounds. And, any material covered by copyright is still covered by copyright, even if that material is redistributed without charge.

For anyone new to these forums, we strictly protect publisher, author and artist hard work and their intellectual property on these forums. For those users who've been around for a while - we'll continue to operate as we have for the past 10+ years - don't redistribute any material covered by copyright without the copyright holder permission on these forums - even for free. If the material you distribute is covered by an RPG OGL, Community Commons, or similar license; please make sure you adhere to the limits and requirements of that license. Thanks for your attention.