Why are so many Roll20 users coming over lately?

[Rondor]

Can someone fill me in?

[Valoe]

Well long story short:

A R20 user made a long list of things that could be improved with R20 on the subreddit. The co-founder didn't like this, and banned the user from the subreddit. The co-founder tried to excuse it as him believing the user was another user from a year ago that also got banned for R20 criticism. Co-founder never actually did some proper investigation to see if it was the same user (it wasn't), and the whole thing blew up. It was proven that the two banned users weren't the same user, and when confronted with this instead of apologizing R20 simply tried to play it off as "being careful". R20 customer service was also terrible, and everything essentially blew up. Tons of R20 users deleted their accounts.

It was essentially a PR disaster.

If you want to full story here is the banned user's post.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/9iwarj/after_5_years_on_roll20_i_just_cancelled_and/

[Rondor]

That explains a lot. Thank you!

[Arrix]

Without Valoe's explanation I wouldn't have known about it. I knew there was drama but I try to avoid it where I can.

The reason for my interest in FG right now is and switching over is more of a coincidence. Saw the sale on Steam (30 bucks off the ultimate lifetime license) and we just finished a chronic on Roll20. That's all.

[LordEntrails]

Without Valoe's explanation I wouldn't have known about it. I knew there was drama but I try to avoid it where I can.

The reason for my interest in FG right now is and switching over is more of a coincidence. Saw the sale on Steam (30 bucks off the ultimate lifetime license) and we just finished a chronic on Roll20. That's all.
Note that the sale is available on the FG Store as well.

[DrakosDJ]

Well long story short:

A R20 user made a long list of things that could be improved with R20 on the subreddit. The co-founder didn't like this, and banned the user from the subreddit. The co-founder tried to excuse it as him believing the user was another user from a year ago that also got banned for R20 criticism. Co-founder never actually did some proper investigation to see if it was the same user (it wasn't), and the whole thing blew up. It was proven that the two banned users weren't the same user, and when confronted with this instead of apologizing R20 simply tried to play it off as "being careful". R20 customer service was also terrible, and everything essentially blew up. Tons of R20 users deleted their accounts.

It was essentially a PR disaster.

If you want to full story here is the banned user's post.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/9iwarj/after_5_years_on_roll20_i_just_cancelled_and/

This is not the only reason. There was also a situation about a year to year and a half ago between Roll20 and some of the better known D&D YouTube channels. Check out the Dawnforge Cast YouTube video here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK-H0dDeG38) about it. Though it happened a while ago, it is just now coming out.

[Arrix]

Note that the sale is available on the FG Store as well.

Oh, you are right. I've only looked at the /home page, not at the shop page. Thanks for that.

[Rondor]

Holy Sh*t!


This is not the only reason. There was also a situation about a year to year and a half ago between Roll20 and some of the better known D&D YouTube channels. Check out the Dawnforge Cast YouTube video here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK-H0dDeG38) about it. Though it happened a while ago, it is just now coming out.

[Nylanfs]

Because FG and the community is awesome. :)

[NotRussellCrowe]

Because FG and the community is awesome. :)

I agree completely, it's one reason I chose FG, the community was much more friendly and inviting and didn't require me to fill out an application as detailed as my security clearance form just to get a chance at playing some D&D.

[MasterZamna]

For a while i have been with the idea to get a better/cheaper platform, so when the sale came out, nice chance :D

[Nylanfs]

For a while i have been with the idea to get a better/cheaper platform, so when the sale came out, nice chance :D

Welcome to the forums and FG Community!

[Rondor]

+1 on the community props

[donpaulo]

I think both platforms support RPG which is wonderful for us geeks.

Its too bad that constructive criticism was flagged. What a shame.

I've mostly been on FG for years, but I have played on R20 from time to time. I found the community here to be more on the "mature" side of things. Issues tend to get solved here rather than created.

I certainly don't wish R20 any harm.

I do wish that FG could somehow implement the excellent looking for a game search engine they have on R20. All those pull down menu options for day, time, game system really helps narrow down the options.

More players is usually a good thing right ?

Welcome to the newest members !

[Bonkon]

Because FG and the community is awesome. :)

Good Day All :)
I have never even been over to look at Roll 20, my first DM for a VTT picked FG and I started looking at the boards as we were learning the system and saw how this is easily one of if not the most helpful and courteous group of people I have even seen on the internet :)

[Calum]

Good Day All :)
I started looking at the boards as we were learning the system and saw how this is easily one of if not the most helpful and courteous group of people I have even seen on the internet :)

I've been playing online games over 20 years and, yeah I have to completely agree with that statement. The devs regularly post on here and try to be completely fair and honest even when talking about competitors, and the community is genuinely helpful (big thanks to the fantasy grounds college folks for getting me started). I have never experienced a gaming community anywhere close to fantasy grounds.

On the flip side we have NolanT of Roll20 being quoted as sayting they didn't want a forum community for his product. This just bemuses me, utterly bemuses me. We are looking very much at a gaming product that is based on community interaction but you don't want to use one of the better tools to promote that community, bizarre.

[ItsDarthChaos]

Kind of a part of this transition, here. I've owned my FG Ultimate license for awhile, but friends wanted to play on Roll20, so Ive never gotten to use it. A month ago I started running my own campaign, and now I am trying to figure out how to set up a 5e game here to transfer my players into. Can someone please point me to an explanation on how to set it up? I'm staring at a list of extensions when I set the 5e ruleset that I have no clue what to do with. Best guess is I need to check the books I want to include, but I want to verify before I do anything.

[damned]

Welcome (back) ItsDarthChaos

I suggest you start without Extensions and just get the hang of things first.
Activate the PHB and an Adventure (if you bought one).
Share the PHB and NOT the adventure.

Learn Character Creation and Combat Basics.
Start there and build on it as required.

[ItsDarthChaos]

*Nods* No adventure here. Full home brew game. Just not sure how FG works. With Roll20 you could just look up anything from the PHB you needed. Wasnt sure if you need to install the extensions to be able to do the same or not.

[Myrdin Potter]

The PHB is drag and drop into the character sheets for the text.

The big difference is the level of automation. Some parses and is recognized from the PHB text. For others, you need to manually create effects on the character sheet. There is a series of posts for each of the character classes that provide examples on how to do that.

Extensions are really if you want to add something additional to the rules that are not included in the base set. For example, if you want to integrate syrinscape into Fantasy Grounds so you can play sounds without leaving FG, there is an extension that allows you to do that.

[Hasmine Kekistano]

I tried roll 20...it was a pain in the neck to use to even make a character I was hoping to find an alternative, and found out about this website and low and behold I can make my toon's in here and it wasn't a pain in the neck to do. I'm just trying to get into a campaign before I would subscribe though.

[Rondor]

*Nods* No adventure here. Full home brew game. Just not sure how FG works. With Roll20 you could just look up anything from the PHB you needed. Wasnt sure if you need to install the extensions to be able to do the same or not.

Highly recommend FG College on Discord. Highly.

[Myrdin Potter]

*Nods* No adventure here. Full home brew game. Just not sure how FG works. With Roll20 you could just look up anything from the PHB you needed. Wasnt sure if you need to install the extensions to be able to do the same or not.

You are going to want to create a separate “module” of each adventure instead of free forming in the one campaign folder. You don’t have to, but it allows you to resusentne content you create easier.

Think of the campaign folder you use to play in as your notebook where you jot down things you make up. The content you create in advance, that you make in another campaign folder and then export it into a module and then open that module in your play campaign.

That is how all the predone adventures work and it is the main work flow for adventures you create as well.

This is not actually needed, you can just layer onto the main campaign folder if you want to, but I recommend it as the approach to use.

[gb3792]

Can someone fill me in?

I've been a paying customer of Roll20 for the better part of two years, and I guess I'm one of the people who made the jump a while ago.

I've been growing increasingly dissatisfied with how Roll20's VTT is being managed. There seems to be no concrete plan or agenda for anything, and customer wishes appear to be largely ignored. It's of course every company's right to take their product into whatever direction they want to go, but a lot of the things that get brought up in their Suggestion forum are very basic quality of life improvements that aren't being implemented. The most requested ones are merely stamped with a "Long Term" label that essentially tells people "we'll probably do this eventually, in a couple years maybe, but please keep the money coming in the meantime". It feels like customer placation with no desire to solve the problem.

The aforementioned ApostleO incident was just the last straw for me and the proverbial slap in the face I needed. I read the posts and saw someone who's essentially in the same boat being silenced for voicing very valid and reasonable concerns with the platform. It's disgraceful. I felt extremely uncomfortable with supporting a company who would outright destroy criticism and vilify a loyal customer. So I cut the flow of money and figured "I've already looked at the demo version of Fantasy Grounds once, might be the time to look a bit closer".

Now I've bought the FG ultimate edition (kudos for offering a permanent license so I don't have to worry about my monthly budget) and I'm learning the ropes. So far I like what I'm seeing. I enjoy the improved inventory control, and how you can essentially make your own libraries of custom items that people can drag over into their sheets. Now I can do things like attach flavor text to items that denote that a sword is forged in a particular style, or add descriptors so my players aren't all walking around with the same generic "Shield" item. Right now I'm looking into rollable tables and how I can use them to cover my weaknesses as a DM.

It'll be a while until I'm prepared enough to host again, but I'm excited to see what these new options are going to bring to our game.

[damned]

welcome gb3792

there are plenty of long term goals here too - but they are mostly because of engine limitations.
the dev team add many new improvements regularly and are hard at work on the new engine and all of its goodness too.

[rperito]

I have to say that I picked an incredibly strange time to look into VTT's! I've been out of the hobby for years and years and wanted to get back into it so I was doing all the research I could. The day I made the decision to go ahead and pick between Roll20 and FG, the Roll20 Reddit went up in FLAMES! [Meme's galore!] After all the backlash the Roll20 staff who were moderating the r/Roll20 reddit actually LEFT and turned it over to some volunteers from the Roll20 LFG subreddit. The new mods promptly started doing damage control, including creating a separate forum just for people to post negative things about Nolan T. Jones, Roll20's co-founder/CEO. It made Newsweek, believe it or not. Then the Save or Dice YouTubers dropped their bomb about dealing with Nolan T.... And, well, here I am, an new FG member - thinking I might have dodged a bullet! :p

[Valaeryn]

My interest was piqued with the scandal, but the pricing for modules is what really drew me in.

[donpaulo]

I have to say that I picked an incredibly strange time to look into VTT's! I've been out of the hobby for years and years and wanted to get back into it so I was doing all the research I could. The day I made the decision to go ahead and pick between Roll20 and FG, the Roll20 Reddit went up in FLAMES! [Meme's galore!] After all the backlash the Roll20 staff who were moderating the r/Roll20 reddit actually LEFT and turned it over to some volunteers from the Roll20 LFG subreddit. The new mods promptly started doing damage control, including creating a separate forum just for people to post negative things about Nolan T. Jones, Roll20's co-founder/CEO. It made Newsweek, believe it or not. Then the Save or Dice YouTubers dropped their bomb about dealing with Nolan T.... And, well, here I am, an new FG member - thinking I might have dodged a bullet! :p

Indeed, there are few things more beneficial than good timing.

I have a question however.

Save or dice dropped their bomb. What exactly does this mean ? Or perhaps you can provide a link ? An initial search doesn't provide much of relevance.

I ask because in every "crisis" there is a learning opportunity and I'd like to read/see it for myself.

Thanks in advance

[gb3792]

welcome gb3792

there are plenty of long term goals here too - but they are mostly because of engine limitations.
the dev team add many new improvements regularly and are hard at work on the new engine and all of its goodness too.

Oh, I didn't mean to insinuate that long term goals are bad inherently. It was just the insistence to use that label for basically everything that had me raise an eyebrow, coupled with the simplicity of some of the desired features. Really basic things like the ability to put a token's name tag into a tooltip, or an "end turn" button for players (both of which are things that FG already does).

So far I've actually been pretty happy with FG.

[Nylanfs]

Save or Die and several of the other popular streaming groups approached Roll20 about sponsoring a event, Nolan told them that Roll20 didn't need 5 more white guys to promote Roll20 and that they were looking for a more diverse set of hosts. Except he said it in the absolute wrong way or tone of voice. Which from a certain standpoint I can see, D&D really doesn't need 5 more white guys doing the promoting, but again he said it with what has been more and more apparent in his usual lack of societal awareness. And then a bunch of people jumped on it for discrimination against white guys playing D&D. Which in my mind is a crap argument.

[LordEntrails]

Save or dice dropped their bomb. What exactly does this mean ? Or perhaps you can provide a link ? An initial search doesn't provide much of relevance.
The initial video describing the incident is here; https://youtu.be/kZJHAywQFm0

[donpaulo]

Save or Die and several of the other popular streaming groups approached Roll20 about sponsoring a event, Nolan told them that Roll20 didn't need 5 more white guys to promote Roll20 and that they were looking for a more diverse set of hosts. Except he said it in the absolute wrong way or tone of voice. Which from a certain standpoint I can see, D&D really doesn't need 5 more white guys doing the promoting, but again he said it with what has been more and more apparent in his usual lack of societal awareness. And then a bunch of people jumped on it for discrimination against white guys playing D&D. Which in my mind is a crap argument.

I see. Thanks for the post.

From a marketing standpoint I don't see how more sponsorship is a bad thing. The professional response is "thanks for asking us to participate but we are going to say no thanks to your offer."

Very thankful I haven't emotionally invested over there.

[dulux-oz]

Hi to all the new people, and Welcome! to the Community,

I'm going to add this in here, on the grounds that (new) people may not be aware of the info - old hands here on the FG Forums have know about this, so please wait until I put on my asbestos suit before flaming me, OK? :p

If people haven't done so already, let me encourage you to take a look at some of the great Tutorial Videos available on the Fantasy Grounds Wiki (and on YouTube). Damn's are good, as are Xorn's, and people seem to like mine as well (mine are also available from the links in my sig, below).

Start with the ones on the CoreRPG, because the CoreRPG forms the foundation of just about all the RPGs we play with Fantasy Grounds - so by learning how to use FG with the CoreRPG you'll learn about 80% of what you'll need to know to play any RPG with Fantasy Grounds. Once you've gone through the CoreRPG Videos you can then go on to Videos about your chosen RPG.

When you get familiar with the basic Fantasy Grounds product the next step is to check out some of the Extensions (Plug-Ins) for FG, such as the DOE: Sound (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?31369-DOE-Sound-Extension), DOE: Locations (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?20794-DOE-Locations-Extension), DOE: Weather (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?22142-DOE-Weather-Extension) and DOE: Organisations (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?27169-DOE-Organisations-Extension) Extensions (to name a but a few - and a Shameless™ Self Plug).

You may also want to drop into the FG College (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?40020-Join-Fantasy-Grounds-College-Learn-Fantasy-Grounds-learn-D-amp-D-and-then-play!); a great place for newcomers to get started.

And of course, there's plenty of Twitch Channels where you can watch games in progress (including my own - https://www.twitch.tv/dulux_oz - another Shameless™ Self Plug).

And keep on asking questions - we're a pretty friendly lot here, and we love answering questions.

Cheers

[gb3792]

I'm grateful for the primer. Thank you.

[damned]

Oh, I didn't mean to insinuate that long term goals are bad inherently. It was just the insistence to use that label for basically everything that had me raise an eyebrow, coupled with the simplicity of some of the desired features. Really basic things like the ability to put a token's name tag into a tooltip, or an "end turn" button for players (both of which are things that FG already does).

So far I've actually been pretty happy with FG.

Yep :)
Whilst I am a huge fan of Fantasy Grounds I was just pointing out that sometimes things that some of us, or even many of us, want, dont always happen in teh time frames we would like.
Just being fair and all.
One big difference is you are allowed to voice your opinions (it is definitely preferred that you remain civil - and required that you dont get personal) including criticisms.
You can discuss other platforms too.

[Targas]

Maybe not obvious, but as GM you can move text you type into FG chat pane, before hitting ENTER to Tokens to ‚label‘ those short term.

[rperito]

Run a search YouTube for Taking20 or Dawnforged Cast and Roll20 and look up Jim Davis WebDM twitter for a different view of the same event. It is interesting to say the least.

[shadzar]

Run a search YouTube for Taking20 or Dawnforged Cast and Roll20 and look up Jim Davis WebDM twitter for a different view of the same event. It is interesting to say the least.

or you could watch this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5P1mFXvxME