Kobold's "Tales of the Old Margrave" Kickstarter

[epithet]

I see that Kobold Press has kickstarted their Tales of the Old Margrave for 5e, including some updates from the old Pathfinder version. One thing that stands out is that they are offering Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds versions as part of the Kickstarter, but the Fantasy Grounds version is $5 more than the Roll20 incarnation.

Any thoughts as to why that would be?

I'm already hesitant to back this since it specifically doesn't come with a pdf. I'm very skeptical that roll20 is offering better format translation support than SmiteWorks does, so the $5, while trivial, does seem like a 2nd smack in the face.

The first, of course, is the lack of a pdf and their dubious reason for omitting it.

VTT and PDF are totally different workflows involving different companies, different technologies, and different teams. For Kobold Press, the idea of supporting three formats well is more daunting than supporting two. For KP, it's three different projects.
That seems like BS to me, since whatever program they use to create the proof for the printer will spit out a pdf for them. They might need to fiddle with image file sizes to get the pdf size down, but it's not a whole other project. I believe they just want to keep the product locked behind an encryption wall.

What do y'all think?

[LordEntrails]

Well, I don't have any specific info on this KS, but i can give you some informed opinions on some of your concerns.

The FG version is probably more expensive because whomever is doing the FG conversion is charging more than the Roll20 converter. This is probably due to the fact that if properly converted to FG, their is a lot of work to be done to make sure actions and traits parse correctly, that things fully use the automation available in FG. The Roll20 conversion, I assume, doesn't have that level of automation.

So in short, the FG version is probably more expensive because it's (probably) a better supported product, not less.

As for their statement. They are right, and wrong. VTT is a completely different format, but the "content", the story text, the NPC statistics, etc are the same. Converting from one to the other is not simple, and currently can't be completely automated. SmiteWorks probably has the best automated conversion process as is, but even that is labor intensive as evidenced by some comments that have been made by converters like Mr. Z.

For another point of reference, I've recently been in conversations with a company that does XML conversions and make numerous XML conversion software programs, and they have convinced me its not as repeatable a process as I would have anticipated. (Not that it can't be done, but since the input content is not consistent, the schema can't be consistent either).

[epithet]

I agree that VTT is a completely different format, but they're making a hardcover book, so creating a pdf is not a completely different workflow from that of the physical book.

I have to wonder whether, when the product goes on sale in the FG store, it will be priced at $5 more than the same product on the Roll20 storefront. I have no doubt that the FG module will have a lot more to it, just because FG as a platform offers a lot more that can be done. I am just under the impression that, as a rule, a given digital RPG product tends to be priced at a certain level regardless of its specific format. I could be mistaken.

[andrewcr]

Doug Davidson in last weeks Fantasy Grounds Friday talked about the conversion process for making a PDF. Its not as simple as people assume and isn't just a different check box on the print dialogue after making the layout for printing.

I suggest you watch the episode. URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEplwmMjC1U&t=123s about 43:00 minutes in

[mac40k]

One of the things I think Doug failed to mention was that for pdfs, while you actually can print to pdf, the resulting document will not have the bookmarking and hyperlinking that modern consumers have come to expect. That's also additional work that someone has to do, since offering just a plain pdf version of the printed book may garner more negative feedback than no pdf at all. I own a few pdfs of large books that only have the page preview thumbnails and nothing else and they irritate me to no end. It's acceptable in a 6 page supplement, not a 100+ page book.

[Mortar]

A good chunk of the KP DLC available in the store right now was done by Zacchaeus, and one other person I am not familiar with. The Midgard material is underway by a dev internal to KP (I believe). I have no idea who will be doing the Old Margrave material but it will be worth it.

[epithet]

Since Doug spoke about receiving the InDesign files with full-size hi-rez images, etc, I assume the Margrave is being converted for FG by someone at, or contracted by, SmiteWorks. This might be a factor in the extra $5 for the Fantasy Grounds version, which is galling to say the least.

[JohnD]

The alternative could be no FG version. Wouldn't that be worse?

[epithet]

That seems unlikely, though. The Kobolds are already selling their products on the FG store, so I'm pretty confident that there would be a FG version one way or another. It does appear that Kobold offerings are consistently more expensive on the FG store as opposed to the Roll20 marketplace, although there are many of their products that are sold for FG that are simply not available for Roll20.

[JohnD]

Sounds like a trade off to me.

Regardless, one can always vote with their wallet and credit cards.

[Myrdin Potter]

I am not fond of their decision to not provide a PDF. I am capable of making my own files for use in FG if I have a pdf. I like PDF when traveling, I take long trips to Asia and read in the plane.

And this is from someone that mainly DMs in FG and was an early backer of their Tome of Beasts FG option.

[Trenloe]

As of about 10 minutes ago KP have announced that they will be doing PDFs. KS update #6.

[epithet]

Yup. I'm in.